Re: Number display in Firefox
I agree with Roozbeh. It also uses Arabic shapes of numbers, which is not suitable for Persian texts. But it is good to know about this feature, anyway. Best -ali- Roozbeh Pournader wrote: This behavior is of course considered very bad practice, and is not recommended in any standards. It would also limit one to be able to display European numbers at all. So, I would recommend not to turn on the feature, and nag to the webadmins instead to use Persian digits in their Persian documents. roozbeh On Sun, 2005-03-27 at 21:31 +0430, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: Hi all, I just found something cool in Firefox which I had not come across before, and thought some of you guys might not know it as well. As far as I can tell this is related to Gecko, so it must affect all Mozilla based applications, though I have not tested it anywhere except Firefox 1.0. The default rendering behavior for numbers appearing inside Persian text in Mozilla is to show them as Latin digits (1 2 3 ...), though in IE it depends on the context (whether the direction of the containing text is rtl or ltr.) To make Firefox respect the direction of the text in this regard, you can add the following line to your user.js file: user_pref(bidi.numeral, 1); which sets the number rendering mode to context. This enables ASCII digits entered inside Persian text to be rendered as Persian numbers ( ...) Of course this does not affect the behavior of rendering numbers explicitly entered using Unicode character codes. FWIW, Ehsan ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (20) 7594 8241 Fax: +44 870 130 7263 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: The New Alef
Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 07:57 -0600, Connie Bobroff wrote: Quoting Roozbeh Pournader [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There has been a new Alef around for quite a while. Why do you say new? Alef is always written out that way as in numbered lists, Umm..., because they connect the Alef to the Lam at the top and cut the Feh short? I have never seen it like that in a numbered list. It just makes it more like one character, and it needs less space, especially on the car number plates. Best -khanban- -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Behaviour of U+002F in IE and Mozilla
Hi, Since the Arabic thousand separator, U+066B, is not commonly in use, most of Persian sites use /, U+002F, instead. The behaviour, when it is used between numbers, is different in IE (and MS Office) and Mozilla. Which one is the correct one? Best -ali- -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
Behdad Esfahbod wrote: The bottom line: Thanks Connie, you showed us that there are people printing that thing in reality. I don't like to argue about how widely it's used anymore. If someone has an evidence of Persian Academy putting this Kasre, please bring the issue up again for our reconsideration. As long as I remember, there has been a rule 'no kasre between name and family', and there was never anything in favour of kasra in this particular case. These examples, thanks to Connie, shows only some extreme cases, or typos. I, personally, need to see some linguists in favour of using kasre. Best -ali- -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
Thanks. BTW, in locale, I noticed that there is no am and pm for time, and it is only 24 hour time in Iran. I remember two words baamdaam and ba'd az zohr were used by radio/tv presenters most of the time. Of course people always use ba'd az zohr, but rarely baamdaad. I think deleting 12 hour clock is not fair. We could use the current entries in AMPM part of the locale in the following link, that you sent me. Best -ali- Roozbeh Pournader wrote: I don't know how you got to the page, but it is about the the Arabic *language* in Iran. The (almost) correct Persian page is at: http://oss.software.ibm.com/cgi-bin/icu/lx/en_US/?_=fa_IR (which is done partially by me.) roozbeh On Tue, 2004-06-15 at 05:01, Ali A. Khanban wrote: Hi, Have a look at: http://oss.software.ibm.com/cgi-bin/icu/lx/en_US/?_=ard_=en_US_r=IR; Maybe we need to submit the draft version to correct this. Anyway, as long as there is a note, it should be OK to refer to script as Arabic, though I still prefer something like Perso-Arabic. Best -ali- C Bobroff wrote: On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Well, that has the same author(!), so it doesn't count. Do a google search for pashto perso-arabic to see that many authors think Pashto is written in the Perso-Arabic script. Then do a google search for pashto arabic script and you'll see with just a quick glance that most further explain that it is *modified* Arabic script or called *Perso-Arabic.* If you're writing in English, you'd better not say simply Arabic script. -Connie -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
Hi, Have a look at: http://oss.software.ibm.com/cgi-bin/icu/lx/en_US/?_=ard_=en_US_r=IR; Maybe we need to submit the draft version to correct this. Anyway, as long as there is a note, it should be OK to refer to script as Arabic, though I still prefer something like Perso-Arabic. Best -ali- C Bobroff wrote: On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Well, that has the same author(!), so it doesn't count. Do a google search for pashto perso-arabic to see that many authors think Pashto is written in the Perso-Arabic script. Then do a google search for pashto arabic script and you'll see with just a quick glance that most further explain that it is *modified* Arabic script or called *Perso-Arabic.* If you're writing in English, you'd better not say simply Arabic script. -Connie -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khatt e Farsi -- was khaat e Farsi
C Bobroff wrote: I believe Roozbeh, while typing the document was attempting to translate Perso-Arabic script into Persian. Not an easy job. I recommend for the final draft, you say khatt-e 'arabi and then in parentheses or footnote, just put the English (Perso-Arabic script). I don't think that for the purposes of this draft you need to get into the history of the calligraphic styles and orthographic conventions. Well, I am afraid that may cause some problems in the future, especially some ugly political ones. Let me tell you a story. The first time we tried to approach High Council of Informatics showraaye aaliye anformaatik to discuss a Unicode proposal, they were against using Unicode, just because the letters were named Arabic letter They were of course mistaken, and it took a long time and effort to achieve their support. I am sure Roozbeh still remembers those times. Now, first of all, we do not talk about script family. Everyone agrees that Persian script belongs to the Arabic scripts family. We just say Persian script, and in a note we explain that this script belongs to the Arabic scripts family. Please note that unlike western scripts that can be called Latin script, there are many national and political barriers and dilemmas, which prevent the nations on this side of the world to call their script Arabic script. Choosing a very liberal, and somehow radical, approach at the moment doesn't solve all of them! Secondly, as I mentioned before, we clearly have in the constitution that the name of both language and script are Farsi. If we provide a document that will become official and in which refer to our script as Arabic (no matter how we explain it in a note), that surely will have some side-effects. Best -ali- -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
Hi, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Well, it depends on your point of view. Instead of bringing the Pashto or Ordu case, lets have a look at the western equivalent. They all call it Latin Script (khatte laatin), right? It's not about language or font-style. And in computer software that's what really matters. I brought up Pashto and Ordu cases, because they are more relevant to our alphabet. Moreover from another point of view--the Unicode standard--we are using the Arabic script, there's no such thing as Persian script encoded in the Unicode standard. Again, I'd like to know if other Arabic-based scripts, such as Pashto and Ordu, call themselves Arabic script in their locale. If it is common among all these scripts to call themselves Arabic (the case for Latin-based scripts), then we should do that, too. Otherwise, we should call it Persian Script and add some information (Arabic-based nature of the script and so on) in a note. Best -ali- On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Hi, The name of the script, as in attachment, seems wrong. According to the constitution, the name of the language and script is Farsi (Persian). Look at http://www.iranonline.com/iran/iran-info/Government/constitution-2.html and http://www.moi.gov.ir/ghavanin/asasi.htm#three I know that Persian script comes from Arabic and many may know it as Arabic, but are all the scripts with their root in Arabic script called Arabic? For example Pashto or Ordu? Best -ali- Roozbeh Pournader wrote: I am glad to announce the availability of the first public draft of the specification of locale requirements of Persian for Iran. The text tries to specify the general requirements of internationalized software for the Persian language of Iran. It's available from: http://www.farsiweb.info/locale/locale-0.6.pdf Please note that this is a draft, and needs your comments in order to get improved and corrected. FarsiWeb's plan is to keep this a living and maintained document. For feedback or comments, please email us at [EMAIL PROTECTED], or call us at +98 21 602-2372. You can also write to us at the following address: Sharif FarsiWeb, Inc. PO Box 13445-389 Tehran, Iran Also, please note that the documentation is published under a free documentation license. For the exact details, see the text of the license (and contact us or your lawyer in case of ambiguities, we are able to explain the license or relicense the text in certain conditions), but I wish to mention in short that the text is copyrighted, and free documentation doesn't mean that you are allowed to do anything you like with the text. You are allowed to use the information you learn for any purpose of course, including using them in proprietary software. The project has been funded and supported by the High Council of Informatics of Iran, and the Computing Center of Sharif University of Technology. We also wish to thank the Persian Linux project for helping in the funding. I wish to thank Hamed Malek, Behnam Esfahbod, Houman Mehr, Elnaz Sarbar, Behdad Esfahbod, Meelad Zakaria, Mehran Mehr, and the PersianComputing community for their advice and contributions to the work. But as the main contributor, every fault should only be blamed on me. Roozbeh Pournader Sharif FarsiWeb, Inc. ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing --behdad behdad.org -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khaat e Farsi
Well, it shows that there exists something which is called xatte Faarsi. Not everything in our constitution is fiction, is it? ;) -ali- Peyman wrote: The attached .jpg is a text from the book pishineye zabane farsi written by Dr. Safavi. Peyman */Behdad Esfahbod [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi all, Well, it depends on your point of view. Instead of bringing the Pashto or Ordu case, lets have a look at the western equivalent. They all call it Latin Script (khatte laatin), right? It's not about language or font-style. And in computer software that's what really matters. Moreover from another point of view--the Unicode standard--we are using the Arabic script, there's no such thing as Persian script encoded in the Unicode standard. behdad On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Hi, The name of the script, as in attachment, seems wrong. According to the constitution, the name of the language and script is Farsi (Persian). Look at http://www.iranonline.com/iran/iran-info/Government/constitution-2.html and http://www.moi.gov.ir/ghavanin/asasi.htm#three I know that Persian script comes from Arabic and many may know it as Arabic, but are all the scripts with their root in Arabic script called Arabic? For example Pashto or Ordu? Best -ali- Roozbeh Pournader wrote: I am glad to announce the availability of the first public draft of the specification of locale requirements of Persian for Iran. The text tries to specify the general requirements of internationalized software for the Persian language of Iran. It's available from: http://www.farsiweb.info/locale/locale-0.6.pdf Please note that this is a draft, and needs your comments in order to get improved and corrected. FarsiWeb's plan is to keep this a living and maintained document. For feedback or comments, please email us at , or call us at +98 21 602-2372. You! can also write to us at the following address: Sharif FarsiWeb, Inc. PO Box 13445-389 Tehran, Iran Also, please note that the documentation is published under a free documentation license. For the exact details, see the text of the license (and contact us or your lawyer in case of ambiguities, we are able to explain the license or relicense the text in certain conditions), but I wish to mention in short that the text is copyrighted, and free documentation doesn't mean that you are allowed to do anything you like with the text. You are allowed to use the information you learn for any purpose of course, including using them in proprietary software. The project has been funded and supported by the High Council of Informatics of Iran, and the Computing Center of Sharif University of Technology. We also wish to thank the Persian Linux project for helping in the funding. I wish to thank Hamed Malek, Behnam Esfahbod, Houman Mehr, Elnaz Sarbar, Behdad Esfahbod, Meelad Zakaria, Mehran Mehr, and the PersianComputing community for their advice and contributions to the work. But as the main contributor, every fault should only be blamed on me. Roozbeh Pournader Sharif FarsiWeb, Inc. ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
Roozbeh Pournader wrote: I am glad to announce the availability of the first public draft of the specification of locale requirements of Persian for Iran. The text tries to specify the general requirements of internationalized software for the Persian language of Iran. It's available from: http://www.farsiweb.info/locale/locale-0.6.pdf Th attachment should be a type, I guess. Please note that this is a draft, and needs your comments in order to get improved and corrected. FarsiWeb's plan is to keep this a living and maintained document. For feedback or comments, please email us at [EMAIL PROTECTED], or call us at +98 21 602-2372. You can also write to us at the following address: Sharif FarsiWeb, Inc. PO Box 13445-389 Tehran, Iran Does that mean we should send our comments only to the above email and not to this list? Best -ali- -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban inline: type1.gif___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 15:39, Ali A Khanban wrote: Shaahanshaahi calendar was introduced in 1355 and abolished in 1357. When exactly? I know that not all of 1357 was known as 2537. In Early 1357 it was abolished. Does it really matter? It is only a historical interest. The important thing is how to convert it. Because, in those two years, many date references were converted to Shaahanshaahi calendar. So, we have some dates like Shahrivar-e 2500 or Mordaad-e 2512 and so on. Of course, it is possible to find the exact date, for example by looking at the archive of Ettela'at or Kayhan newspapers, and see when the date in their title changes. Unfortunately, I don't have access to them at the moment, maybe later. Best -ali- roozbeh -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: WEFT webpage font embedding--Call for feedback
Hi, IE6.0 on Win2K: OK Mozilla1.7RC1 on Win2K: OK (but the font of Arabic typesetting is very big!) And I suppose the English translation of Bushaq poem is written in Koodak font (not in Tahoma as it says). Another point is: why is it instead of and instead of ? Best -ali- C Bobroff wrote: We've had a few discussions about WEFT before in the past but never really explored it completely. Therefore, I made this demo page in both English and Persian and embedded Tahoma, Koodak(by FarsiWeb) and Arabic Typesetting: http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/weft.htm Can you please check if Weft has worked? Do you see my fonts correctly? Is the Yeh (medial form) showing up correctly in all fonts, especially on Win98? Is the load time any longer than usual? If you have the old, buggy Tahoma font, is my corrected font showing up instead? If you have the old Sinasoft or Borna Koodak, is my FarsiWeb Koodak showing up? Please report your findings! Be sure to mention which version of Windows and IE. By the way, you have to uninstall these fonts if you have them, otherwise, the test is not too helpful :) As you may know, Weft only works on Windows and IE so don't bother to check on anything else. Also please don't look at the source code! I was in a great hurry and yes, it's a mess. Anyone who is qualified is welcome to redo it if too unbearable. I would appreciate that! Thanks! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: English-Persian dictionary on your site
Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 16:14, Ali A. Khanban wrote: on't forget that I had modified the data before using it in the new dictionary and there have been some added words, too. That doesn't make the copying legal, unfortunately. I know. I just mentioned this to explain the source of some differences between that data and the original Arianpour book. -khanban- -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Ali A. Khanban wrote: Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 18:14, AmirBehzad Eslami wrote: But don't you think shape of U+066C is very similar to sign of 'foot' and 'minute'? (http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/afgDecSep.JPG) Depends on the font. Compare with http://www.bamdad.org/~roozbeh/thsep.png, for example. I know it is kind of personal preferences, but I was wondering whether a right-faced comma-shaped character is suitable for the thousand separator. I read from right to left when I see such glyph. Because numbers are written and read from left to right, maybe a 180 rotation to this character makes it more suitable. It's a valid point. But I prefer it mirrored, not rotated. behdad Mirrored is even better. It is more similar to the way I usually separate them in handwriting. Put the pen on a paper and then move it to the top and left, a natural number separator! Don't ask me for references, but I have seen many old people who use such a symbol for separating the thousands. Best -khanban- -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
