RE: IranL10nInfo
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 16:02, Omid K. Rad wrote: I don't have many calendars in hand here, but when I was in Iran I found many calendars that use 'Amordad' instead of 'Mordad'. I took a photo of the only Iranian calendar I have here for you too see an instance. Ah, that's an Eghbal calendar. They compute the calendar themselves and specially have certain calendars for astrology uses. I won't consider that an authoritative calendar. Anyway, since we are going to recommend one thing, FarsiWeb will stick with mordaad in written form. We understand the problems, but it looks unavoidable. I will personally try to raise the issue in the next Persian Academy meeting I attend. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Sun, 15 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: It is still Amordad; I was going to point it out here to discuss, as I did not find about it in the archives. -Omid The answer is really simple: Have you ever seen Amordad printed *anywhere*? That's like using Pahlavi instead of Modern Persian. In fact I myself use 'Mordad' ordinarily, because I'm simply used to it. But since I was drawn to this calendar thing I realized that the correct word is actually 'Amordad' whose initial ALEF is dropped over a not-so-long time, because of the simplicity to pronounce. The initial ALEF in Persian was used to negate a noun, thus Amordad which means 'the month of no-death' or 'the month of life' has now altered to Mordad meaning 'the month of death'. It was interesting for me when I found that many *printed* almanacs observe to use the original word and I had never noticed that. My mind always saw 'Amordad' and read 'Mordad'. So I was thinking why not have another exception in our literature such as the VAAV in words 'khaahesh' and 'khaahar' that is written but not read. Write 'Amordad' and read 'Mordad' to have the modern word while not corruptting the old good meaning. I don't have many calendars in hand here, but when I was in Iran I found many calendars that use 'Amordad' instead of 'Mordad'. I took a photo of the only Iranian calendar I have here for you too see an instance. Omid attachment: Amordad.jpg___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: But since I was drawn to this calendar thing I realized that the correct word is actually 'Amordad' Recommend you avoid correcting anything. Once you make a decision to correct one thing, you'll end up having to correct more and more and then it will get out of control. If you have an option for variants, fine but the one in the main entry should be the default, standard word in use right now at the time you are collecting data. Your job is to DEscribe, not PREscribe. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 00:40, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On SuHumm, after finishing the sentence, I go back to vote for Jalali! As it avoid binding yet another meaning to the Persian/Iranian word, and we don't have to go on tell everybody that this Farsi Calendar is the same as the Persian Calendar or Iranian Calendar, which in turn used to be known as Jalali Calendar or Jalaali Calendar by MS... Poof, Jalali Calendar is such a cute name, not? It has a serious problem: there already exits a Jalali calendar that is different from this calendar we are talking about. It uses the same leap year rules, but each month is 30 days, with 5 or 6 additional days added at the end [Mosahab Persian Encyclopedia, Vol 1, Page 657, taghvim-e jalaali entry]. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 02:09, Omid K. Rad wrote: I totally agree with you that the name Jalali keeps away all that confusion and debate around Farsi/Persian/Iranian and also Shamsi/Khorshidi. There remains another confusion also: that the Afghan calendar is different from the Iranian one in leap year calculation. And since the origin of both is the Jalali calendar But as far as I'm advised, the Jalali Calendar refers to an era other than the Hejrie Shamsi which is in use today, and the calculations are not exactly the same. This is what some people have told me, I don't know about the details though. Can anybody clarify please? I confirm. The leap year calculation rule is supposedly that same, but the lengths of the months is different. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 22:50, hameed afssari wrote: 1. Jalali is the offical calendar of Afghanestan (although they may be using different month name). They use different month names, yes, but they officially call it the same as Iran: Hejri-e Shamsi or Hejri-e Khorshidi. That can be confirmed by looking at any calendar published in Afghanistan. To find some information about the calendars of Afghanistan, please see page 23 of the CLRA report: http://evertype.com/standards/af/af-locales.pdf 2. By calling it Persian or Iranian Calendar you are be default limiting it's use to a country or region and that is not correct. Actually, that will make it very correct. The actual computation of the leap year in this calendar is based on the Iranian coordinates. To quote the text of the official Iranian law of 1925, the first day of the year, is the day that sun passes the spring equinox point between the noon of that day and the noon of its previous day. You can see that it refers to *noon*, which is defined differently in different parts of the world. Iraj Malekpour, the previous guy in charge of the official calendar of Iran, used the noon of the 52.5 degree meridian (nesf-on-nahaar) that defines the official time of the country. I don't know the current practice. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Sun, 9 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Hi Omid, Hi, A couple of points: The Jalaali calendar, can you please tell me in which of the ECMA standards is it defined? None. I don't agree with that name for our current calendar. It is the name Microsoft has selected. I believe 'Persian calendar' or 'Iranian calendar' is more correct (and known) for the international name of Hejrie Shamsi. The same about the locale definitions. Which defenitions you mean exactly? Those fields that you see in the draft are properties of some globalization classes defined in the .NET Base Class Library (BCL), and we are defining their expected return values for Iran. And next: You are saying that the Mono and DotGNU projects are published under noncommercial shared-source licenses. I'm almost sure this is not the case. shared-source is the old Microsoft trick. Both of this two platforms (Mono and DotGNU) can be used for commercial purposes as well as non-commercial, both for free. You can read more about why a noncommercial-only license is not the best license at http://www.fsf.org/ Yes, they are open source, and each part of them is published under the terms of a GNU licence. You're right, you can create commercial applications for these platforms as well. Later, :) behdad Omid On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET Hello every body, especially my friends at FarsiWeb, I'm trying to point out some things here (even though you might already know) about .NET and our project. For your information: The .NET Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) and the C# programming language were submitted to ECMA and ISO/IEC International standardization organizations a couple of years ago. The submissions were ratified as standards after thorough investigations as: Standard ECMA-334 (C#) http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm Standard ECMA-335 (CLI) http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-335.htm Standard ISO/IEC 23270 (C#) http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER= 36 768 Standard ISO/IEC 23271 (CLI) http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER= 36 769 This resulted in raising many new open source movements over .NET in the ICT community, amongst which there are three major projects by third parties that intend to implement versions of the .NET Framework conforming to the base implementations that Microsoft has done or is already underway. Those are: The Ximian's Mono Project sponsored by UNIX http://www.go-mono.com Free Software Foundation's Portable .NET http://www.dotgnu.org/pnet.html Corel's Rotor (Microsoft SSCLI) for FreeBSD http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/sscli All of these implementations are published under noncommercial shared-source licenses. This means we will have .NET applications running on a vast number of platforms quite soon, to name a handful: Linux, Windows, Solaris, FreeBSD, HP-UX, and Mac OS X. We have also a choice of more than 20 programming languages to choose from: APL, COBOL, Component Pascal, Eiffel, Fortran, Haskell, Jscript.NET, Mercury, Oberon, Pascal, Perl, Python, Smalltalk, Visual Basic.NET, C# , Managed C++, etc. To make applications more interoperable between different platforms, all of the implementations of CLI consider implementing the fundamental namespaces in the .NET Framework Class Library that reflect closely to what Microsoft releases. These don't include namespaces such as Microsoft.*, yet include those that are referred to as pure .NET namespaces which System.Globalization namespace is one of them. The System.Globalization is also available in .NET Compact Framework - a lighter version of the framework that installs on handheld devices. In the Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET project (IranL10nInfo for short) we have selected to work only on those parts of .NET that are in the System.Globalization namespace (pure .NET). Any changes that Microsoft mekes on them are indirectly ported to every non-Microsoft implementations of the Class Library. Moreover, this project will automatically produce a good layout of information fields that we can simply use for other languages like Tajik and Afghan. So, we are trying to resolve some locale issues far beyond Microsoft - a big name. All the best, Omid __ Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/draft/ Other Open Source developments over ECMA CLI: Intel Lab's OCL (Open CLI Library) http://sourceforge.net/projects/ocl/ Platform.NET http://sourceforge.net/projects/platformdotnet/ Articles: Linux World - Bringing the CLI
RE: IranL10nInfo
I totally agree with you that the name Jalali keeps away all that confusion and debate around Farsi/Persian/Iranian and also Shamsi/Khorshidi. But as far as I'm advised, the Jalali Calendar refers to an era other than the Hejrie Shamsi which is in use today, and the calculations are not exactly the same. This is what some people have told me, I don't know about the details though. Can anybody clarify please? Jalali Calendar is such a cute name, not? Yeah, and funny is the message a guy has commented on MSDN Longhorn annotations for the Jalaali calendar: Thank you This Calender Is A Good Thank You Mr Jalali Thank Bill Doh!! Omid On Sun, 9 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Humm, good point. I was worried about Jalaali being used instead of Jalali. But now that you mention it, I almost agree that one of Persian or Iranian calendar may suit better. Well, we have the Gregorian and Julian calendar suggesting Jalali, and we have Chinese and Japanese suggesting Iranian, and we have Islamic and Hebrew calendars suggesting Persian! Guys, can we decide on one once now? Humm, after finishing the sentence, I go back to vote for Jalali! As it avoid binding yet another meaning to the Persian/Iranian word, and we don't have to go on tell everybody that this Farsi Calendar is the same as the Persian Calendar or Iranian Calendar, which in turn used to be known as Jalali Calendar or Jalaali Calendar by MS... Poof, Jalali Calendar is such a cute name, not? Oh, the main point, now that Jalaali is not in any standard yet, perhaps you can request a name change from Jalaali to Jalali. Of course it's just my personal suggestion. later, --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
I was amazed when I got my Ukranian friend read www.ozodi.org texts. He was actually reading Persian!!! Omid --- Jon D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure if you're already aware of this, but www.ozodi.org run by Radio Free Europe distributes these Tajik fonts: http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajmcyr.ttf http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajtcyr.ttf -Jon D. --- C Bobroff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, Please send me your Tajik keyboard and we can discuss it further off the list. I don't think Arial Unicode MS will do but TITUS may work. I'll have to check. My particular project was for the web so even if we do find a font, it will boil down to the eternal question of whether to embed, use graphics or force the user to download the font (or some combination thereof.) -Connie On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote: Arial Unicode MS should do, plus (probably) Code2000 by James Kass or (possibly) Bitstream TITUS Unicode -- I've to check the latter ones. I am quite certain that there are a couple of Russian-made (not hacked) fonts around, too. Peter -Original Message- From: C Bobroff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:16 PM To: Linguasoft Cc: 'Roozbeh Pournader'; 'PersianComputing' Subject: RE: IranL10nInfo On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote: It's very easy to type Tajik using a Phonetic (i.e., mnemonic) Cyrillic keyboard. With which font though? I could only find hacked fonts. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Mon, 3 May 2004, Jon D. wrote: http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajmcyr.ttf http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajtcyr.ttf Thanks, Jon. I guess these are hacked Monaco and Times New Roman although I didn't look too carefully. Meanwhile, Peter has sent me a keyboard and wonderful documentation which I'm still trying out. It does look like MS Arial Unicode and TITUS can handle the few extra Tajik characters although both fonts are more about function than appearance and not so practical for webuse. That's why people resort to hacking, I suppose. Still, they are a lot better than nothing and maybe I can get back on the project I'd shelved earlier. Too bad I didn't ask here earlier! Thanks again for checking. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
I'm not sure if you're already aware of this, but www.ozodi.org run by Radio Free Europe distributes these Tajik fonts: http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajmcyr.ttf http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajtcyr.ttf -Jon D. --- C Bobroff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, Please send me your Tajik keyboard and we can discuss it further off the list. I don't think Arial Unicode MS will do but TITUS may work. I'll have to check. My particular project was for the web so even if we do find a font, it will boil down to the eternal question of whether to embed, use graphics or force the user to download the font (or some combination thereof.) -Connie On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote: Arial Unicode MS should do, plus (probably) Code2000 by James Kass or (possibly) Bitstream TITUS Unicode -- I've to check the latter ones. I am quite certain that there are a couple of Russian-made (not hacked) fonts around, too. Peter -Original Message- From: C Bobroff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:16 PM To: Linguasoft Cc: 'Roozbeh Pournader'; 'PersianComputing' Subject: RE: IranL10nInfo On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote: It's very easy to type Tajik using a Phonetic (i.e., mnemonic) Cyrillic keyboard. With which font though? I could only find hacked fonts. -Connie http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
So d+zh (U+0434 U+0436) is apparently a heritage from Russian, which does not have the U+04B7 glyph and therefore substitutes a digraph. BTW, http://www.geonames.de/alphtz.html suggests U+01E7 as transliteration of U+04B7. So we have a few more renderings, i.e. toik (transliterated from Cyrillic Tajik) and tajik [or tojik?] (transliterated from Arabic Tajik). Peter -Original Message- From: Roozbeh Pournader [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:45 AM To: Linguasoft Cc: 'PersianComputing' Subject: RE: IranL10nInfo On Fri, 2004-04-30 at 13:47, Linguasoft wrote: The Cyrillic alphabet uses two graphemes d+zh to represent the sound of Perso-Arabic jeem. Similar as dj used in French transliteration of Arabic, etc. I can't agree. The spelling is clearly which you can see has only six letters. No digraph for the sound: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajik_language roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
Peter, Please send me your Tajik keyboard and we can discuss it further off the list. I don't think Arial Unicode MS will do but TITUS may work. I'll have to check. My particular project was for the web so even if we do find a font, it will boil down to the eternal question of whether to embed, use graphics or force the user to download the font (or some combination thereof.) -Connie On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote: Arial Unicode MS should do, plus (probably) Code2000 by James Kass or (possibly) Bitstream TITUS Unicode -- I've to check the latter ones. I am quite certain that there are a couple of Russian-made (not hacked) fonts around, too. Peter -Original Message- From: C Bobroff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:16 PM To: Linguasoft Cc: 'Roozbeh Pournader'; 'PersianComputing' Subject: RE: IranL10nInfo On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote: It's very easy to type Tajik using a Phonetic (i.e., mnemonic) Cyrillic keyboard. With which font though? I could only find hacked fonts. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 20:05, C Bobroff wrote: About your suggestion, however, we (i.e. our team) have no idea about Afghan and Tajik languages. It's all one language, different conventions. For example, Tajiki is written in the Cyrillic alphabet instead of Arabic. ;) roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: IranL10nInfo
Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET Omid, Thanks and good idea. Why not also include Afghan and Tajik data? No one is looking out for them. For example, I recently tried to figure out the date in Afghanistan. There are dozens of online converters but all they've done I think is take FarsiWeb's Jalali converter and change Esfand to Hut, etc with no attention to the different way the leap year is calculated making the calendar useless. (Luckily someone finally provided me with a trustworthy off-line calendar.) Then I tried to type a paragraph in Tajik and the best font I could find was a hacked Times New Roman which was unusable. A side benefit to taking the other Persians into consideration is that it brings up issues of Iran Persian which might have otherwise gone unnoticed. Just a humble suggestion. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
