Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 07:12:22AM +0200, Chris Travers wrote: > If we have a committer who loudly and proudly goes to neo-nazi rallies or > pickup artist / pro-rape meetups, then actually yes, I have a problem with > that. That impacts my ability to work in the community, impacts

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > There's been quite a lot of input, from quite a lot of people, dating > back at least as far as a well-attended session at PGCon 2016. I find > it quite upsetting to hear accusations that core is imposing this out > of nowhere. From my

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 5:11 AM Craig Ringer wrote: > On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 at 23:11, James Keener wrote: > >> And if you believe strongly that a given statement you may have made is >>> not objectionable...you should be willing to defend it in an adjudication >>> investigation. >> >> >> So

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 at 23:11, James Keener wrote: > And if you believe strongly that a given statement you may have made is >> not objectionable...you should be willing to defend it in an adjudication >> investigation. > > > So because someone doesn't like what I say in a venue 100% separate

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Tatsuo Ishii writes: > Now that CoC is out, > https://www.postgresql.org/about/policies/coc/ > I would like to start the translation work. Can somebody suggest me > how I can proceed? Sure, translate away. Probably the -www list is the place to discuss questions like where it would appear on

Re: Code of Conduct plan

>>> Do we want official translations of this? We allow local communities >>> do their own manual translations. However CoC is so important, I feel >>> like we need more for Coc. Good thing with CoC is, it is expected that >>> it would be stable (at least I hope so) and translation works when >>>

Re: Code of Conduct plan

I see a CoC as an infiltration of the PostgreSQL community which has worked OK since at least 10 years. The project owners have let their care slacken. I request that the project owners EXPEL/EXCOMMUNICATE ALL those who are advancing what can only be seen as an instrument for harassing members of

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/17/2018 10:39 AM, Chris Travers wrote: > On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 5:28 PM Joshua D. Drake > wrote: ... >> My feedback is that those two sentences provide an overarching authority >> that .Org does not have the right to enforce ... > Fascinating that this would, on its face, not apply to a

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 6:08 PM Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 17:39:20 +0200 > Chris Travers wrote: > > > > Exactly. And actually the first sentence is not new. The second one > > is a real problem though. I am going to try one last time at an > > additional alternative. > > > > "

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> On Sep 17, 2018, at 4:57 PM, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 08:27:48 -0700 > "Joshua D. Drake" wrote: > >> >> At this point it is important to accept that the CoC is happening. We >> aren't going to stop that. The goal now is to insure a CoC that is >> equitable for all

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 17:39:20 +0200 Chris Travers wrote: > Exactly. And actually the first sentence is not new. The second one > is a real problem though. I am going to try one last time at an > additional alternative. > > " To that end, we have established this Code of Conduct for community

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 08:27:48 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake" wrote: > On 09/17/2018 08:11 AM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote: > > On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:52:34 + > > Martin Mueller wrote: > > > >> ... The overreach is dubious on both practical and theoretical > >> grounds. "Stick to your knitting " or the

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 5:28 PM Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 09/17/2018 08:11 AM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote: > > On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:52:34 + > Martin Mueller > wrote: > > > ... The overreach is dubious on both practical and theoretical grounds. > "Stick to your knitting " or the KISS

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/17/2018 08:11 AM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote: On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:52:34 + Martin Mueller wrote: ... The overreach is dubious on both practical and theoretical grounds. "Stick to your knitting " or the KISS principle seem good advice in this context. Moderated mailing lists ain't been

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:52:34 + Martin Mueller wrote: > ... The overreach is dubious on both practical and theoretical grounds. > "Stick to your knitting " or the KISS principle seem good advice in this > context. Moderated mailing lists ain't been broken all these years, therefore they

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:00:31 +1200 Mark Kirkwood wrote: > a SJW agenda. > the angry militant left. Some people just can't stop themselves. Which is a big reason for CoCs. SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business

RE: Code of Conduct plan

Dear All, If we allow friendship and fellowship to flourish everyone benefits. That doesn't mean we should drop our standards or quality. It is worth remembering that all human beings are social animals(basic logic) so even the most logical person could get offended and turn off from

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:12:36 -0700 Adrian Klaver wrote: > https://marshmallow.readthedocs.io/en/dev/code_of_conduct.html Personally I don't give a toss about politolosophy, I think idiocy, no matter how well-meaning, is still idiocy and is probably contaguious via "normalization of idiocy".

Re: Code of Conduct plan

As long as subscribers to the list or attendants at a conference do not violate explicit or implicit house rules, what business does Postgres have worrying about what they do or say elsewhere? Some version of an 'all-of-life' clause may be appropriate to the Marines or federal judges, but it

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 8:11 PM Tom Lane wrote: > Martin Mueller writes: > > Which makes me say again "Where is the problem that needs solving?" > > We've re-litigated that point in each burst of CoC discussion for the > last two-plus years, I think. But, one more time: > > * So far as the

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 15/09/18 08:17, Tom Lane wrote: Yeah, this. The PG community is mostly nice people, AFAICT. I'll be astonished (and worried) if the CoC committee finds much to do. We're implementing this mostly to make newcomers to the project feel that it's a safe space. Agreed. However I think the

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 9/14/18 11:13 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:10 AM, Dave Page wrote: That wording has been in the published draft for 18 months, and noone objected to it that I'm aware of. There will always be people who don't like some of the wording, much as there are often people who

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 9/14/18 11:21 AM, Peter Geoghegan wrote: On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote: Personally I would like that. Others might prefer an invitation to unsubscribe or forever hold their peace, I could live with that too, but I believe explicit opt-ins are preferable to opt-outs.

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Martin Mueller writes: > Which makes me say again "Where is the problem that needs solving?" We've re-litigated that point in each burst of CoC discussion for the last two-plus years, I think. But, one more time: * So far as the mailing lists alone are concerned, we likely don't really need a

Re: Code of Conduct plan

That is quite true: the very high quotient of helpful prose and very low quotient of inappropriate language is striking--much like the TEI list of which I long have been a member, and unlike the MySQL list, which has a non-trivial (though not serious) boorish component. Which makes me say

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 12:11:37PM -0400, Melvin Davidson wrote: > How about we just simplify the code of conduct to the following: > Any member in the various PostgreSQL lists is expected to maintain > respect to others and not use foul language. A variation from > the previous sentence shall be

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 04:24:38PM +, Martin Mueller wrote: > What counts as foul language has changed a great deal in the last two > decades. > You could always tie it to what is printable in the New York Times, but that > too is changing. I could live with something like “Be considerate,

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Date: Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 11:12 AM To: Tom Lane Cc: Bruce Momjian , Chris Travers , James Keener , Steve Litt , "pgsql-generallists.postgresql.org" Subject: Re: Code of Conduct plan How about we just simplify the code of conduct to the following: Any member in the various

Re: Code of Conduct plan

How about we just simplify the code of conduct to the following: Any member in the various PostgreSQL lists is expected to maintain respect to others and not use foul language. A variation from the previous sentence shall be considered a violation of the CoC. On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:51 AM Tom

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Bruce Momjian writes: > There is a risk that if we adopt a CoC, and nothing happens, and the > committee does nothing, that they will feel like a failure, and get > involved when it was best they did nothing. I think the CoC tries to > address that, but nothing is perfect. Yeah, a busybody CoC

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:32:06AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: > There is a risk that if we adopt a CoC, and nothing happens, and the > committee does nothing, that they will feel like a failure, and get > involved when it was best they did nothing. I think the CoC tries to > address that, but

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 08:44:10AM +0200, Chris Travers wrote: > The protection there is a culturally diverse code of conduct committee who can > then understand the relationship between politics and culture.  And just to > note, you can't solve problems of abuse by adopting mechanistically

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Dear all, On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 5:18 PM Tom Lane wrote: > Robert Haas writes: > > It's not clear to me that there IS a general consensus here. It looks > > to me like the unelected core team got together and decided to impose > > a vaguely-worded code of conduct on a vaguely-defined group

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 4:47 AM James Keener wrote: > > > The preceding's pretty simple. An attacker goes after an individual, >> presumably without provocation and/or asymetrically. The attacked >> person is on this mailing list. IMHO this attacker must choose between >> continuing his attacks,

Re: Code of Conduct plan

The preceding's pretty simple. An attacker goes after an individual, > presumably without provocation and/or asymetrically. The attacked > person is on this mailing list. IMHO this attacker must choose between > continuing his attacks, and belonging to the Postgres community. > > What's tougher is

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 07:19:59 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake" wrote: > I agree that within Postgresql.org we must have a professional code > of conduct but the idea that an arbitrary committee appointed by an > unelected board can decide the fate of a community member based on > actions outside of the

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 10:10:38 -0400 James Keener wrote: > > I understand the concern, however, if you look at how attacks happen > > > > it is frequently through other sites. Specifically under/poorly > > moderated sites. For specific examples, people who have issues with > > people on Quora will

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 13:18:12 + Martin Mueller wrote: > I have followed this list for a couple of years, have benefited > several times from quick and helpful advice, and wonder whether all > this code of conduct stuff is a solution in search of a problem. No, it's not. Talk to anyone

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Robert Haas writes: > It's not clear to me that there IS a general consensus here. It looks > to me like the unelected core team got together and decided to impose > a vaguely-worded code of conduct on a vaguely-defined group of people > covering not only their work on PostgreSQL but also their

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 01:17 PM, Chris Travers wrote: > And frankly I am probably being paranoid here though I find paranoia is a > good thing when it comes to care of databases and computer systems. But I > do worry about the interactions between the PostgreSQL community and the > larger world with

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 9/14/18, 12:50 PM, "Joshua D. Drake" wrote: On 09/14/2018 07:41 AM, James Keener wrote: > > Community is people who joined it > > We're not a "community." I do not think you are going to get very many people on board with that argument. As anyone who knows me

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote: > Personally I would like that. Others might prefer an invitation to > unsubscribe or forever hold their peace, I could live with that too, but > I believe explicit opt-ins are preferable to opt-outs. I think that it's a legitimate position

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 7:47 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote: > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Dimitri Maziuk > wrote: > > So let me get this straight: you want to have a "sanctioned" way to deny > > people access to postgresql community support channel? > > Yes. > > > "Because > > somebody who may

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:10 AM, Dave Page wrote: > That wording has been in the published draft for 18 months, and noone > objected to it that I'm aware of. There will always be people who don't like > some of the wording, much as there are often people who disagree with the > way a patch to

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Greetings, * Dimitri Maziuk (dmaz...@bmrb.wisc.edu) wrote: > On 09/14/2018 12:46 PM, Peter Geoghegan wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Dimitri Maziuk > > wrote: > >> So let me get this straight: you want to have a "sanctioned" way to deny > >> people access to postgresql community

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 12:46 PM, Peter Geoghegan wrote: > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Dimitri Maziuk > wrote: >> So let me get this straight: you want to have a "sanctioned" way to deny >> people access to postgresql community support channel? > > Yes. A question to TPTBs, then: once The Great

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 07:41 AM, James Keener wrote: > Community is people who joined it We're not a "community." I do not think you are going to get very many people on board with that argument. As anyone who knows me will attest I am one of the most contrarian members of this community but I still

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote: > So let me get this straight: you want to have a "sanctioned" way to deny > people access to postgresql community support channel? Yes. > "Because > somebody who may or may not be the same person, allegedly said something > somewhere that

Re: Code of Conduct plan

While agreeing that there are good arguments that we are a "community" in a prescriptive sense, I don't think the discussion about whether we constitute a community is relevant. For at least 25 years "community" has been applied to virtually any group of people, much to the chagrin of those such

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 15:55 James Keener, wrote: > > > Yes. They can. The people who make the majority of the contributions to >> the software can decide what happens, because without them there is no >> software. If you want to spend 20 years of your life >> > > So everyone who moderates this

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 12:14 PM, Peter Geoghegan wrote: > No CoC can possibly provide for every conceivable situation. Somebody > has to interpret the rules, and it has to be possible to impose > sanctions when the CoC is violated -- otherwise, what's the point? > There are several checks and balances in

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 7:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Sure and that is unfortunate but isn't it up to the individual to deal with > it through appropriate channels for whatever platform they are on? All of > these platforms are: > > 1. Voluntary to use > 2. Have their own Terms of Use and

Re: Code of Conduct plan

I hesitate to exacerbate what is a society-wide debate that is being worked out across organizations across the spectrum, but if I may provide a thought for consideration. The framing and language of the Code of Conduct, as written and proposed, includes a large number of checkpoints to protect

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 09:42 AM, Dave Page wrote: > There are some fuzzy edges I guess (e.g. Slack), but in my mind it's always > been anyone who participates in any of the projects communications channels. Then you Sir are an evil ter'rist member of isis because your spoken words are carried by the same

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Greetings, * James Keener (j...@jimkeener.com) wrote: > > > I fail to see how that makes everyone here part of a community anymore > > than > > > I'm part of the "community" of regulars at a bar I walk into for the > > first > > > time. > > > > Does the bartender get to kick you out if you get

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:37 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 09/14/2018 07:14 AM, Dave Page wrote: > > > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: > >> On 09/14/2018 01:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: >> >> >> I apologize for the glacial slowness with which this has all been

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 7:16 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > [ Let's try to trim this discussion to just -general, please ] > > Robert Eckhardt writes: > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Adrian Klaver > > wrote: > >> On 9/14/18 1:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: > >>> I really have to object to this

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:10 PM, James Keener wrote: > I understand the concern, however, if you look at how attacks happen > >> it is frequently through other sites. Specifically under/poorly >> moderated sites. For specific examples, people who have issues with >> people on Quora will

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> On 14. Sep 2018, at 16:31, Ilya Kosmodemiansky wrote: > > > > > I could only heavily +1 this. I can get I can’t get of course, sorry for typo > from where comes the idea that community is only what happens just on > postgresql.org or just on some other channel community uses. > .

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> To many of us, we absolutely are a community. Remember, there are people > here who have been around for 20+ years, of which many have become close > friends, having started working on PostgreSQL as a hobby. We have always > seen the project as a community of like-minded technologists, and

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 4:51 PM Dave Page wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: > >> On 09/14/2018 07:36 AM, Dave Page wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:21 PM, James Keener wrote: >> >>> >>> Now, you may say that (2) would be rejected by the

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Greetings, (trimmed to -general, tho I don't know if it'll really help) * James Keener (j...@jimkeener.com) wrote: > > To many of us, we absolutely are a community. Remember, there are people > > here who have been around for 20+ years, of which many have become close > > friends, having started

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 4:16 PM Tom Lane wrote: > [ Let's try to trim this discussion to just -general, please ] > > Robert Eckhardt writes: > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Adrian Klaver > > wrote: > >> On 9/14/18 1:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: > >>> I really have to object to this

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 4:14 PM Dave Page wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: > >> On 09/14/2018 01:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: >> >> >> I apologize for the glacial slowness with which this has all been moving. >>> The core team has now agreed to some

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> > And if you believe strongly that a given statement you may have made is > not objectionable...you should be willing to defend it in an adjudication > investigation. So because someone doesn't like what I say in a venue 100% separate from postgres, I have to subject myself, and waste my

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:57 PM, James Keener wrote: > > >> Yes, I believe so. Isn't that what "To that end, we have established >> this Code of Conduct for community interaction and participation in the >> project’s work and the community at large." basically says? >> > > No? What's the

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 07:51 AM, Dave Page wrote: If that business is publicly bringing the project into disrepute, or harassing other community members and they approach us about it, then it becomes our business. If it's unrelated to PostgreSQL, then it's your personal business and not

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> > I fail to see how that makes everyone here part of a community anymore > than > > I'm part of the "community" of regulars at a bar I walk into for the > first > > time. > > Does the bartender get to kick you out if you get into a fight? Or if > you're rude or inappropriate towards the

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:55 PM, James Keener wrote: > > > Yes. They can. The people who make the majority of the contributions to >> the software can decide what happens, because without them there is no >> software. If you want to spend 20 years of your life >> > > So everyone who moderates

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 9/14/18 7:52 AM, James Keener wrote: I fail to see how that makes everyone here part of a community anymore than I'm part of the "community" of regulars at a bar I walk into for the first time. As I said, the rules can and should apply within the list, but applying them outside the list

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> > Yes, I believe so. Isn't that what "To that end, we have established this Code > of Conduct for community interaction and participation in the project’s > work and the community at large." basically says? > No? What's the "community at large"? To me that sounds like "all interactions" whether

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Yes. They can. The people who make the majority of the contributions to the > software can decide what happens, because without them there is no > software. If you want to spend 20 years of your life > So everyone who moderates this group and that will be part of the CoC committee will have had

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 09/14/2018 07:36 AM, Dave Page wrote: > > > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:21 PM, James Keener wrote: > >> >> Now, you may say that (2) would be rejected by the committee, but I would counter that it's still a stain on me and

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:41 PM, James Keener wrote: > > Community is people who joined it > > We're not a "community." We're people using email to get help with or > discuss technical aspects of PostgreSQL. The types of discussions that > would normally be held within a "community" would be

Re: Code of Conduct plan

[ Let's try to trim this discussion to just -general, please ] Robert Eckhardt writes: > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Adrian Klaver > wrote: >> On 9/14/18 1:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: >>> I really have to object to this addition: "This Code is meant to cover all interaction between

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 07:36 AM, Dave Page wrote: On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:21 PM, James Keener > wrote: Now, you may say that (2) would be rejected by the committee, but I would counter that it's still a stain on me and something that

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> Community is people who joined it We're not a "community." We're people using email to get help with or discuss technical aspects of PostgreSQL. The types of discussions that would normally be held within a "community" would be entirely off-topic here. We should be professional to each other

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:28 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: > On 9/14/18 7:19 AM, Dave Page wrote: > >> >> >> > >> No one is tracking anything as part of the CoC. That's nothing but a >> straw man argument. >> > > Not buying it or the below is null and void: > > "This Code is meant to cover all

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 07:14 AM, Dave Page wrote: On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: On 09/14/2018 01:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: I apologize for the glacial slowness with which this has all been moving. The core team

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:21 PM, James Keener wrote: > > Now, you may say that (2) would be rejected by the committee, but I would >>> counter that it's still a stain on me and something that will forever >>> appear >>> along side my name in search results and that the amount of time and >>>

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> On 14. Sep 2018, at 16:17, Dave Page wrote: > > > The lists are just one of many different ways people in this community > interact. I could only heavily +1 this. I can get from where comes the idea that community is only what happens just on postgresql.org or just on some other channel

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Greetings, * Joshua D. Drake (j...@commandprompt.com) wrote: > I think this is a complicated issue. On the one hand, postgresql.org has no > business telling people how to act outside of postgresql.org. Full stop. This is exactly what this CoC points out- yes, PG.Org absolutely can and should

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 9/14/18 7:19 AM, Dave Page wrote: No one is tracking anything as part of the CoC. That's nothing but a straw man argument. Not buying it or the below is null and void: "This Code is meant to cover all interaction between community members, whether or not it takes place within

Re: Code of Conduct plan

> Now, you may say that (2) would be rejected by the committee, but I would >> counter that it's still a stain on me and something that will forever >> appear >> along side my name in search results and that the amount of time and >> stress it'd take me to defend myself would make my voluntarily

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 06:59 AM, Robert Eckhardt wrote: I really have to object to this addition: "This Code is meant to cover all interaction between community members, whether or not it takes place within postgresql.org infrastructure, so long as there is not another Code of

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:13 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: > On 9/14/18 6:59 AM, Robert Eckhardt wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Adrian Klaver >> wrote: >> >>> On 9/14/18 1:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: >>> >> > I really have to object to this addition: "This Code is meant to

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 at 15:10, James Keener wrote: > I understand the concern, however, if you look at how attacks happen > >> it is frequently through other sites. Specifically under/poorly >> moderated sites. For specific examples, people who have issues with >> people on Quora will frequently

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 09/14/2018 01:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: > > > I apologize for the glacial slowness with which this has all been moving. >> The core team has now agreed to some revisions to the draft CoC based on >> the comments in this thread; see

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Greetings, * Adrian Klaver (adrian.kla...@aklaver.com) wrote: > On 9/14/18 1:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: > >On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:53 PM Tom Lane >> wrote: > > > >I wrote: > > > Stephen Frost mailto:sfr...@snowman.net>> > >writes: > > >> We seem to

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 9/14/18 6:59 AM, Robert Eckhardt wrote: On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Adrian Klaver wrote: On 9/14/18 1:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: I really have to object to this addition: "This Code is meant to cover all interaction between community members, whether or not it takes place within

Re: Code of Conduct plan

I understand the concern, however, if you look at how attacks happen > it is frequently through other sites. Specifically under/poorly > moderated sites. For specific examples, people who have issues with > people on Quora will frequently go after them on Facebook and Twitter. > > these aren't a

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 09/14/2018 01:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: I apologize for the glacial slowness with which this has all been moving. The core team has now agreed to some revisions to the draft CoC based on the comments in this thread; see

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Adrian Klaver wrote: > On 9/14/18 1:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:53 PM Tom Lane > > wrote: >> >> I wrote: >> > Stephen Frost mailto:sfr...@snowman.net>> >> writes: >> >> We seem to

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 9/14/18 1:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:53 PM Tom Lane > wrote: I wrote: > Stephen Frost mailto:sfr...@snowman.net>> writes: >> We seem to be a bit past that timeline...  Do we have any update on when >> this

Re: Code of Conduct plan

;pgsql-hack...@lists.postgresql.org" , "pgsql-advoc...@lists.postgresql.org" Subject: Re: Code of Conduct plan I find a lot of neo-con/trumpian political stances moronic, short-sighted, and anti-intellectual and therefore consider them offensive, an affront on my way of life, and a st

Re: Code of Conduct plan

I find a lot of neo-con/trumpian political stances moronic, short-sighted, and anti-intellectual and therefore consider them offensive, an affront on my way of life, and a stain on my country. 1) Can I report anyone holding such views and discussing them on a 3rd party forum? 2) Could I be

Re: Code of Conduct plan

Please take me off this list. > On Sep 14, 2018, at 05:31, Chris Travers wrote: > > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:53 PM Tom Lane > wrote: > I wrote: > > Stephen Frost mailto:sfr...@snowman.net>> writes: > >> We seem to be a bit past that timeline... Do we have

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Chris Travers wrote: > I really have to object to this addition: > "This Code is meant to cover all interaction between community members, > whether or not it takes place within postgresql.org infrastructure, so long > as there is not another Code of Conduct that

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:45 AM Ilya Kosmodemiansky wrote: > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Chris Travers > wrote: > > I really have to object to this addition: > > "This Code is meant to cover all interaction between community members, > > whether or not it takes place within

Re: Code of Conduct plan

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:38:56AM +0200, Chris Travers wrote: > > I really have to object to this addition: > > "This Code is meant to cover all interaction between community members, > > whether or not it takes place within postgresql.org infrastructure, so > > long as there is not another Code

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