Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-25 Thread Hector Beyers
No, I have not considered encrypting or decrypting data. The reason for this is that I am trying to *secure a database* by thinking like a *malicious user / criminal*. I want to hide (for example) fraudulent data on a database where it is not easily seen by others and then build a tool to detect

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-25 Thread Sam Mason
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 05:04:10PM -0400, Merlin Moncure wrote: Let me humbly state that the #1 problem that beginners face with security and encryption is focusing too much on the mechanics and not enough on the 'big picture' issues: One more that OP seems to be avoiding is why would anybody

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-25 Thread Hector Beyers
Hi guys, thank you for your replies yesterday on this topic. I have one more question though: Does someone have any ideas how I can hide data without the meta data noticing? To explain further, I would like to save some collection of data where the meta-data does not see it. I am trying to do

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-25 Thread Tim Landscheidt
Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: thank you for your replies yesterday on this topic. I have one more question though: Does someone have any ideas how I can hide data without the meta data noticing? To explain further, I would like to save some collection of data where the meta-data

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-25 Thread Justin Graf
On 5/24/2010 3:18 PM, Hector Beyers wrote: Yes, I mean hide. I am approaching the problem out of the perspective of a malicious user / hacker. **snip*** First hiding data is not a solution to secure or block access to information. This only slows people down it does not stop them, never

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-25 Thread Justin Graf
On 5/25/2010 2:58 AM, Hector Beyers wrote: No, I have not considered encrypting or decrypting data. The reason for this is that I am trying to /secure a database/ by thinking like a /malicious user / criminal/. I want to hide (for example) fraudulent data on a database where it is not

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-25 Thread Vick Khera
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe to save populate a table with 1000 rows, but the meta-data only knows of about 500 of them? Only on an export of a dump can you find the data again. Well, here's your flaw: If you expect the data dumper to be able

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-25 Thread Marc Munro
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, does ANYONE have any tips on hiding data on a database server? This means that data is stored in places that is not necessarily picked up in the schema of the database. I am doing some research on databases and

[GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Hector Beyers
Hi guys, does ANYONE have any tips on hiding data on a database server? This means that data is stored in places that is not necessarily picked up in the schema of the database. I am doing some research on databases and need some direction. Any help or direction will be highly appreciated. Kind

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Peter Hunsberger
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, does ANYONE have any tips on hiding data on a database server? This means that data is stored in places that is not necessarily picked up in the schema of the database. I am doing some research on databases and

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Thom Brown
On 24 May 2010 20:16, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, does ANYONE have any tips on hiding data on a database server? This means that data is stored in places that is not necessarily picked up in the schema of the database. I am doing some research on databases and need some

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, does ANYONE have any tips on hiding data on a database server? This means that data is stored in places that is not necessarily picked up in the schema of the database. I am doing some research on databases and

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Bill Moran
In response to Scott Marlowe scott.marl...@gmail.com: On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, does ANYONE have any tips on hiding data on a database server? This means that data is stored in places that is not necessarily picked up in the

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Hector Beyers
Wow, this is really an idea I can work with. I know this is getting really brainstorming, but do you think it is possible to apply steganography (hiding data in pictures) tactics to the columns of a database? Regards Hector On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Peter Hunsberger

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Hector Beyers
Yes, I mean hide. I am approaching the problem out of the perspective of a malicious user / hacker. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 10:08 PM, Bill Moran wmo...@potentialtech.comwrote: In response to Scott Marlowe scott.marl...@gmail.com: On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Hector Beyers

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Peter Hunsberger
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Wow, this is really an idea I can work with. I know this is getting really brainstorming, but do you think it is possible to apply steganography (hiding data in pictures) tactics to the columns of a database? If by that,

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Hector Beyers
Dear Peter, can you elaborate on what you mean by storing 'this' in the index. Are you referring to the function that is applied over the data? How would you be able to see the result with a dump? Thanks, your ideas are really helping... Regards Hector On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Peter

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Peter Hunsberger
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Peter, can you elaborate on what you mean by storing 'this' in the index. Are you referring to the function that is applied over the data? How would you be able to see the result with a dump? Yes, you would the

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Scott Marlowe
Acutally, that's probably the best way to this. The key to effective steganography is having a large amount of data to store a small amount of data. So, if you don't mind having a db that's 10 to 100 times bigger than it has to be to store the original data it should work. On Mon, May 24, 2010

Re: [GENERAL] Hiding data in postgresql

2010-05-24 Thread Merlin Moncure
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Hector Beyers hqbey...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, does ANYONE have any tips on hiding data on a database server? This means that data is stored in places that is not necessarily picked up in the schema of the database. I am doing some research on databases and