Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

    On April 28, 2018 11:18:02 am PDT, "Peter J. Holzer" wrote: On 2018-04-28 09:54:27 -0500, Steven Lembark wrote: On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:02:21 +0200 "Peter J. Holzer" wrote: > On 2018-04-27 22:52:39 +, g...@luxsci.net wrote: > > Perhaps I'm extreme.

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On 2018-04-28 09:54:27 -0500, Steven Lembark wrote: > On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:02:21 +0200 > "Peter J. Holzer" wrote: > > > On 2018-04-27 22:52:39 +, g...@luxsci.net wrote: > > > Perhaps I'm extreme. In my ideal world, developers might not even > > > know table names! I'm

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

> That seems un-pragmatic to me. IMHO if any business logic needs > access to lots of data, it's best implemented by code that > resides in the database itself, close to the data. I once had a There is a balance: ETL and reporting code is often iterative and can be more flexable in an external

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:02:21 +0200 "Peter J. Holzer" wrote: > On 2018-04-27 22:52:39 +, g...@luxsci.net wrote: > > Perhaps I'm extreme. In my ideal world, developers might not even > > know table names! I'm kidding ,sorta... > > If they don't know the table names, how

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On 2018-04-27 22:52:39 +, g...@luxsci.net wrote: > Perhaps I'm extreme. In my ideal world, developers might not even know table > names! I'm kidding ,sorta... If they don't know the table names, how can they write those stored procedures? hp -- _ | Peter J. Holzer| we

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:39:49 -0700 > Guyren Howe > wrote: > > When it comes to databases, I have universally encountered the > attitude that one should treat the database as a dumb data bucket. > There is a *very* strong aversion to putting much of any

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On 04/27/2018 05:52 PM, g...@luxsci.net wrote: On April 24, 2018 07:27:59 am PDT, "Sam Gendler" wrote: On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 15:37 g...@luxsci.net > wrote: On April 8, 2018 02:40:46 pm PDT,

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

    On April 24, 2018 07:27:59 am PDT, "Sam Gendler" wrote:     On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 15:37 [1]g...@luxsci.net <[2]g...@luxsci.net> wrote:     On April 8, 2018 02:40:46 pm PDT, "Guyren Howe" <[3]guy...@gmail.com> wrote: One advantage to using logic and

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 4:39 PM, Guyren Howe wrote: > I am a Rails developer at a medium-large size company. I’ve mostly worked at > smaller companies. I’ve some exposure to other web development communities. > > When it comes to databases, I have universally encountered the

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On Apr 27, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Guyren Howe > wrote: On Apr 27, 2018, at 8:45 , Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) > wrote: Just chiming in . . . we’ve taken a somewhat different approach and

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On Apr 27, 2018, at 8:45 , Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) wrote: > > Just chiming in . . . we’ve taken a somewhat different approach and actually > encourage our programmers to build out thier own DBs. We’re using Postgres > to aggregate many varied datasources into

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

All, Just chiming in . . . we’ve taken a somewhat different approach and actually encourage our programmers to build out thier own DBs. We’re using Postgres to aggregate many varied datasources into postgres as a cahing system, and then develop against this aggregated data. Yes, we

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:39:49 -0700 Guyren Howe wrote: > I am a Rails developer at a medium-large size company. I’ve mostly > worked at smaller companies. I’ve some exposure to other web > development communities. > > When it comes to databases, I have universally encountered

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 15:37 g...@luxsci.net wrote: > > > On April 8, 2018 02:40:46 pm PDT, "Guyren Howe" wrote: > > One advantage to using logic and functions in the db is that you can fix > things immediately without having to make new application builds.

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

I have done some big contracts for large financial companies, and for most of them, ANY changes to the DB structure required extensive 3rd party testing and a change control process that sometimes took weeks. But we did get a waiver for the use of DB 'code' like stored procedures and views, which

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

So far, I have nothing to add, but just one thing. See below: On 09.04.2018 00:37, g...@luxsci.net wrote: One advantage to using logic and functions in  the db is that you can fix things immediately without having to make new application builds. That in itself is a huge advantage, IMO. This

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

Peter J. Holzer writes: > In my applications I use SQL heavily. RDBMs are good at processing > queries, so use them for that. If all you want is a key-value store, > don't use PostgreSQL. I'm not very fond of ORMs. I know what I want to > do and can express it in SQL. An ORM

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On 2018-04-08 19:39:43 -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > * Alvaro Aguayo Garcia-Rada (aagu...@opensysperu.com) wrote: > > 1. Portability. Being tied to a single database engine is not always > > a good idea. When you write business logic in database, you have to > > write and maintain your store

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Ray Cote wrote: > Maintaining your database logic in version control and versioning the > deployed code can be a bit problematic. > > Conversely, providing a standardized pgsql module through which data is > updated and retrieved

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

Maintaining your database logic in version control and versioning the deployed code can be a bit problematic. Conversely, providing a standardized pgsql module through which data is updated and retrieved can help standardize access logic across multiple languages and libraries. And I concur that

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On 2018-04-08 14:39:49 -0700, Guyren Howe wrote: > I am a Rails developer at a medium-large size company. I’ve mostly worked at > smaller companies. I’ve some exposure to other web development communities. > > When it comes to databases, I have universally encountered the attitude that > one

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

Tim, I'm sorry if I sound like a cheerleader, but boy did you nail this. I would basically say exactly the same thing, just not as well. On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Tim Cross wrote: > > > On 9 April 2018 at 07:39, Guyren Howe wrote: > >> I am a

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On 9 April 2018 at 07:39, Guyren Howe wrote: > I am a Rails developer at a medium-large size company. I’ve mostly worked > at smaller companies. I’ve some exposure to other web development > communities. > > When it comes to databases, I have universally encountered the

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

Greetings, * Ravi Krishna (sravikrish...@gmail.com) wrote: > >> I am however very comfortable with using psql and PL/pgSQL and I am very > >opinionated. > > > Nothing wrong with this approach and it may very well work 90% of the time. > Until ... a day comes when > you need to migrate out of PG

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

Greetings, * Alvaro Aguayo Garcia-Rada (aagu...@opensysperu.com) wrote: > 1. Portability. Being tied to a single database engine is not always a good > idea. When you write business logic in database, you have to write and > maintain your store procedures for every database engine you want to

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

> I am however very comfortable with using psql and PL/pgSQL and I am very opinionated. Nothing wrong with this approach and it may very well work 90% of the time. Until ... a day comes when you need to migrate out of PG to another RDBMS. Good luck at that time.

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

    On April 8, 2018 02:40:46 pm PDT, "Guyren Howe" wrote:   I am a Rails developer at a medium-large size company. I’ve mostly worked at smaller companies. I’ve some exposure to other web development communities. When it comes to databases, I have universally encountered

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

On 04/08/2018 02:39 PM, Guyren Howe wrote: I am a Rails developer at a medium-large size company. I’ve mostly worked at smaller companies. I’ve some exposure to other web development communities. When it comes to databases, I have universally encountered the attitude that one should treat

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

1. With a micro service based architecture these days, it is difficult to justify putting all logic in a central database as you can only scale up in a database. Business logic in things like Spark can make a claim for scale out solution. 2. All RDBMS have a non portable stored proc language,

Re: Rationale for aversion to the central database?

Let's see There are two major issues when writing business logic in database: 1. Portability. Being tied to a single database engine is not always a good idea. When you write business logic in database, you have to write and maintain your store procedures for every database engine you want