Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-05-01 Thread Kang Yuzhe
On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Andrew Borodin wrote: > Hi, Kang and everyone in this thread. > > I'm planning to present the online course "Hacking PostgreSQL: data > access methods in action and under the hood" on edX on June 1st. It's > not announced yet, links will be

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-30 Thread Andrew Borodin
Hi, Kang and everyone in this thread. I'm planning to present the online course "Hacking PostgreSQL: data access methods in action and under the hood" on edX on June 1st. It's not announced yet, links will be available later. This course I'm describing information that was crucial for me to start

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-28 Thread Craig Ringer
On 28 Apr. 2017 17:04, "Kang Yuzhe" wrote: Hello Simon, The journey that caused and is causing me a lot of pain is finding my way in PG development. Complex Code Reading like PG. Fully understanding the science of DBMS Engines: Query Processing, Storage stuff, Transaction

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-28 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Hello Simon, The journey that caused and is causing me a lot of pain is finding my way in PG development. Complex Code Reading like PG. Fully understanding the science of DBMS Engines: Query Processing, Storage stuff, Transaction Management and so on... Anyway as you said, the rough estimation

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 04/18/2017 03:54 AM, Craig Ringer wrote: >> But almost nothing about The Internals of PostgreSQL: > Not surprising. They'd go out of date fast, be a huge effort to write > and maintain, and sell poorly given the small audience. > > Print books probably aren't the way forward here. > Agreed,

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 04/18/2017 03:41 AM, Kang Yuzhe wrote: > > > But almost nothing about The Internals of PostgreSQL: > 1. The Internals of PostgreSQL: > http://www.interdb.jp/pg/index.html translated from Japanese Book > 2. PostgreSQL数据库内核分析(Chinese) Book on the Internals of PostgreSQL: > 3. PG Docs/site > 4.

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Hello Amit, Thanks gain for being patient with me. YES, I am working with the PostgreSQL source git repository but I don't think I updated my local forked/cloned branch. I am also working on standalone PG 9.6.2 source code as well. I will try to fetch/pull the PG master content to my

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Thanks Craig for teaching me a lot of things. I am just learning a lot why PG hacking/development is the way it is. Regarding interest and enthusiasm, no problem. Whats is lacking is the skill-sets and I believe having interest and enthusiasm and with your support, we will expand PG

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Amit Langote
Hi, On 2017/04/18 16:54, Kang Yuzhe wrote: > Thanks Amit for taking your time and pointing to some useful stuff on the > Internals of PostgreSQL. > > > One thing I have learned is that PG community is not as hostile/harsh as I > imagined to newbies. Rather, its the reverse. > I am feeling at

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Craig Ringer
On 18 April 2017 at 15:41, Kang Yuzhe wrote: > Thanks Simon for taking your time and trying to tell and warn me the harsh > reality truth:there is no shortcut to expertise. One has to fail and rise > towards any journey to expertise. Yeah, just because Pg is hard doesn't

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Craig Ringer
On 18 April 2017 at 01:29, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Craig Ringer wrote: > >> Personally I have to agree that the learning curve is very steep. Some >> of the docs and presentations help, but there's a LOT to understand. > > There is a wiki page "Developer_FAQ" which is

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Thanks Simon for taking your time and trying to tell and warn me the harsh reality truth:there is no shortcut to expertise. One has to fail and rise towards any journey to expertise. Overall, you are right. But I do believe that there is a way(some techniques) to speed up any journey to expertise.

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Amit Langote
On 2017/04/18 15:31, Kang Yuzhe wrote: > My question is why is that there is a lot of hands-on about PG application > development(eg. connecting to PG using JAVA/JDBC) but almost nothing about > PG hacking hands-on lessons. For example, I wanna add the keyword > "Encrypted" in CREATE TABLE t1(a

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Thanks Kevin for taking your time and justifying the real difficult of finding ones space/way in PG development.And thanks for your genuine advice which I have taken it AS IS. My question is why is that there is a lot of hands-on about PG application development(eg. connecting to PG using

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-18 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Thanks Alvaro for taking your time and pointing me to "Developer_FAQ". I knew this web page and there is good stuff int it. The most important about "Developer_FAQ" which I believe is that it lists vital books for PG developers. Comparing the real challenge I am facing in finding my way in the

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-17 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Craig Ringer wrote: > Personally I have to agree that the learning curve is very steep. Some > of the docs and presentations help, but there's a LOT to understand. There is a wiki page "Developer_FAQ" which is supposed to help answer these questions. It is currently not very useful, because

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-17 Thread Simon Riggs
On 27 March 2017 at 13:00, Kang Yuzhe wrote: > I have found PG source Code reading and hacking to be one the most > frustrating experiences in my life. I believe that PG hacking should not be > a painful journey but an enjoyable one! > > It is my strong believe that out of

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-04-17 Thread Kevin Grittner
On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: > Personally I have to agree that the learning curve is very steep. Some > of the docs and presentations help, but there's a LOT to understand. Some small patches can be kept to a fairly narrow set of areas, and if you

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-29 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Thanks Amit for further confirmation on the Craig's intention. I am looking forward to seeing your "PG internal machinery under microscope" blog. May health, persistence and courage be with YOU. Regards, Zeray On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Amit Langote < langote_amit...@lab.ntt.co.jp>

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-29 Thread Amit Langote
On 2017/03/29 12:36, Craig Ringer wrote: > On 29 March 2017 at 10:53, Amit Langote wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On 2017/03/28 15:40, Kang Yuzhe wrote: >>> Thanks Tsunakawa for such an informative reply. >>> >>> Almost all of the docs related to the internals of PG are of

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-29 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Thanks you all for pointing me to useful docs on PG kernel stuff as well as for being sympathetic with me and the newbie question that appears to be true and interesting but yet be addressed by PG experts. Last but not least, *Craig Ringer*, you just nailed it!! You also made me feel and think

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-28 Thread Craig Ringer
On 29 March 2017 at 10:53, Amit Langote wrote: > Hi, > > On 2017/03/28 15:40, Kang Yuzhe wrote: >> Thanks Tsunakawa for such an informative reply. >> >> Almost all of the docs related to the internals of PG are of introductory >> concepts only. >> There is even more

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-28 Thread Amit Langote
Hi, On 2017/03/28 15:40, Kang Yuzhe wrote: > Thanks Tsunakawa for such an informative reply. > > Almost all of the docs related to the internals of PG are of introductory > concepts only. > There is even more useful PG internals site entitled "The Internals of > PostgreSQL" in

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-28 Thread Adrien Nayrat
On 03/27/2017 02:00 PM, Kang Yuzhe wrote: > 1. Prepare Hands-on with PG internals > > For example, a complete Hands-on with SELECT/INSERT SQL Standard PG > internals. > The point is the experts can pick one fairly complex feature and walk it from > Parser to Executor in a hands-on manner

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-28 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Thanks Tsunakawa for such an informative reply. Almost all of the docs related to the internals of PG are of introductory concepts only. There is even more useful PG internals site entitled "The Internals of PostgreSQL" in http://www.interdb.jp/pg/ translation of the Japanese PG Internals. The

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-27 Thread Tsunakawa, Takayuki
From: pgsql-hackers-ow...@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-hackers-ow...@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Kang Yuzhe > 1. Prepare Hands-on with PG internals > > > For example, a complete Hands-on with SELECT/INSERT SQL Standard PG > internals. The point is the experts can pick one fairly complex

Re: [HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-27 Thread Michael Paquier
On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 9:00 PM, Kang Yuzhe wrote: > 1. Prepare Hands-on with PG internals > > For example, a complete Hands-on with SELECT/INSERT SQL Standard PG > internals. The point is the experts can pick one fairly complex feature and > walk it from Parser to

[HACKERS] On How To Shorten the Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking...

2017-03-27 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Dear PG Hackers/Experts, I am newbie to PG Hacking. I have been reading the PG code base to find my space in it but without success. There are hundreds of Hands-on with PG Application development on the web. Alas, there is almost none in PG hacking. I have found PG source Code reading and

[HACKERS] On How To Shorten The Steep Learning Curve Towards PG Hacking

2017-03-27 Thread Kang Yuzhe
Dear PG Hacker/Experts, I am newbie to PG Hacking. I have been reading the PG code base to find my space in it but without success. There are hundreds of Hands-on with PG Application development on the web. Alas, there is almost none in PG hacking. I have found PG source Code reading and