Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-15 Thread Jeff Janes
On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 7:48 AM, Vladimir Borodin wrote: > > 14 июля 2017 г., в 1:33, Stephen Frost написал(а): > > What would be really nice for such cases is support for Kerberos and > delegated Kerberos credentials. Having pgpool support that would

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-15 Thread Michael Paquier
On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:15 AM, Stephen Frost wrote: > While this might be possible by having some kind of special trusted > connection between the pooler and PG, I actually don't particularly like > the notion of inventing a bunch of complicated logic and pain so that a >

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-14 Thread Stephen Frost
Greetings, * Vladimir Borodin (r...@simply.name) wrote: > > 14 июля 2017 г., в 1:33, Stephen Frost написал(а): > > What would be really nice for such cases is support for Kerberos and > > delegated Kerberos credentials. Having pgpool support that would remove > > the need to

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-14 Thread Vladimir Borodin
> 14 июля 2017 г., в 1:33, Stephen Frost написал(а): > > What would be really nice for such cases is support for Kerberos and > delegated Kerberos credentials. Having pgpool support that would remove > the need to deal with passwords at all. Since nearly all systems with

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-14 Thread Chapman Flack
On 07/13/2017 10:46 PM, Chapman Flack wrote: > Neither is suitable on an unencrypted channel (as has been repeatedly Please forgive my thinko about md5. I had overlooked the second salted md5 used in the protocol, and that had to be some years ago when I was sure I had looked for one in the

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-13 Thread Chapman Flack
On 07/13/17 21:54, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: >>> The comment in pg_hba.conf.sample seem to prefer md5 over clear text >>> password. >>> >>> # Note that "password" sends passwords in clear text; "md5" or >>> # "scram-sha-256" are preferred since they send encrypted passwords. >> >> Should that be

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-13 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
>> The comment in pg_hba.conf.sample seem to prefer md5 over clear text >> password. >> >> # Note that "password" sends passwords in clear text; "md5" or >> # "scram-sha-256" are preferred since they send encrypted passwords. > > Should that be reworded to eliminate "md5"? I'd consider

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-13 Thread Chapman Flack
On 07/13/17 20:09, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: > The comment in pg_hba.conf.sample seem to prefer md5 over clear text > password. > > # Note that "password" sends passwords in clear text; "md5" or > # "scram-sha-256" are preferred since they send encrypted passwords. Should that be reworded to

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-13 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
>> Using a clear text password would not be acceptable for users even >> through an encrypted connection, I think. > > Really, I don't think users who are concerned with security should be > using the md5 method either. The comment in pg_hba.conf.sample seem to prefer md5 over clear text

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-13 Thread Stephen Frost
Greetings Tatsuo, * Tatsuo Ishii (is...@sraoss.co.jp) wrote: > > What I am suggesting here is that in order to handle properly SCRAM > > with channel binding, pgpool has to provide a different handling for > > client <-> pgpool and pgpool <-> Postgres. In short, I don't have a > > better answer

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-13 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
> What I am suggesting here is that in order to handle properly SCRAM > with channel binding, pgpool has to provide a different handling for > client <-> pgpool and pgpool <-> Postgres. In short, I don't have a > better answer than having pgpool impersonate the server and request > for a password

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-09 Thread Michael Paquier
On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Álvaro Hernández Tortosa wrote: > There's definitely an important concern here that should be addressed: > how poolers/proxies/middleware/etc can deal with SCRAM, specifically in the > context of channel binding. > > If there is to be a

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-09 Thread Michael Paquier
On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Stephen Frost wrote: > Michael, > > * Michael Paquier (michael.paqu...@gmail.com) wrote: >> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:24 AM, Robert Haas wrote: >> > IIUC, things will get even worse once channel binding is committed, >> >

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-08 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
Hi Alvaro, > Hi Tatsuo. > > There's definitely an important concern here that should be addressed: > how poolers/proxies/middleware/etc can deal with SCRAM, specifically > in the context of channel binding. > > If there is to be a single connection from client to PostgreSQL

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread Álvaro Hernández Tortosa
On 06/07/17 04:03, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: Hi PostgreSQL hackers, I would like to hear ideas how Pgpool-II can deal with SCRAM auth which will be in PostgreSQL 10. For those who are not familiar with Pgpool-II[1], it is an external OSS project to provide some additional features to PostgreSQL,

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
>> For more details what Pgpool-II actually does in md5 auth, please see: >> >> https://pgpool.net/mediawiki/index.php/FAQ#How_does_pgpool-II_handle_md5_authentication.3F > > I see. In short, that's not going to be able to work with SCRAM. That's my understanding with SCRAM too. > We also

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread Stephen Frost
Tatsuo, * Tatsuo Ishii (is...@sraoss.co.jp) wrote: > > I recall vaguely Ishii-san mentioning me at PGcon that pgpool was > > actually cheating, but my memories are a bit fuzzy for this part. > > What I meant by "cheating" was, Pgpool-II behaves as if PostgreSQL > server in md5 auth. > > For

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread Stephen Frost
Michael, * Michael Paquier (michael.paqu...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:24 AM, Robert Haas wrote: > > IIUC, things will get even worse once channel binding is committed, > > presumably for PostgreSQL 11. The point of channel binding is to > > guarantee

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
> I recall vaguely Ishii-san mentioning me at PGcon that pgpool was > actually cheating, but my memories are a bit fuzzy for this part. What I meant by "cheating" was, Pgpool-II behaves as if PostgreSQL server in md5 auth. For more details what Pgpool-II actually does in md5 auth, please see:

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
> I think it is. From a security point of view, the fact that the same > salt is always used for the same username is a weakness of md5 > authentication which SCRAM corrects. In my understanding, md5 does not always use the same salt for the same username. PostgreSQL keeps md5(password+username)

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread Michael Paquier
On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:24 AM, Robert Haas wrote: > On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Michael Paquier > wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: >>> For Pgpool-II, things would go as follows: >>> >>> 1)

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread David Fetter
On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 10:03:37AM +0900, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: > Hi PostgreSQL hackers, > > I would like to hear ideas how Pgpool-II can deal with SCRAM auth > which will be in PostgreSQL 10. > > For those who are not familiar with Pgpool-II[1], it is an external > OSS project to provide some

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-07 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Michael Paquier wrote: > On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: >> For Pgpool-II, things would go as follows: >> >> 1) clients sends user name to Pgpool-II. >> 2) Pgpool-II forwards it to PostgreSQL

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-05 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
Michael, > Couldn't you cache one single SASL exchange status for each > connection, meaning one PGconn saved for each? As the challenge sent > by the server and the response generated by the client are different > by design, I am afraid you would need to do that anyway in this > context (Isn't

Re: [HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-05 Thread Michael Paquier
On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: > For Pgpool-II, things would go as follows: > > 1) clients sends user name to Pgpool-II. > 2) Pgpool-II forwards it to PostgreSQL servers. > 3) Each PostgreSQL server sends their own salt to Pgpool-II. > 4) Pgpool-II is

[HACKERS] SCRAM auth and Pgpool-II

2017-07-05 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
Hi PostgreSQL hackers, I would like to hear ideas how Pgpool-II can deal with SCRAM auth which will be in PostgreSQL 10. For those who are not familiar with Pgpool-II[1], it is an external OSS project to provide some additional features to PostgreSQL, including load balancing and automatic