Re: [HACKERS] Lock Wait Statistics (next commitfest)

2009-09-23 Thread Mark Kirkwood
Stephen Frost wrote: Mark, Your last email on this patch, from August 9th, indicates that you've still got TODO: redo pg_stat_lock_waits Has you updated this patch since then? Stephen, No - that is still a TODO for me - real life getting in the way :-) Cheers Mark --

Re: [HACKERS] numeric_to_number() function skipping some digits

2009-09-23 Thread daveg
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:27:19AM +0530, Jeevan Chalke wrote: It seems that Oracle reads formatting string from right-to-left. Here are few results: ('number','format') == Oracle PG ('34,50','999,99') == 3450340

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Looking at the way cache invalidations are handled in two-phase transactions, it would be simpler if we store the shared cache invalidation messages in the twophase state file header, like we store deleted relations and subxids. This allows them to be copied to the COMMIT_PREPARED WAL record, so

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
The logic in the lock manager to track the number of held AccessExclusiveLocks (with ProcArrayIncrementNumHeldLocks and ProcArrayDecrementNumHeldLocks) seems to be broken. I added an Assertion into ProcArrayDecrementNumHeldLocks: --- a/src/backend/storage/ipc/procarray.c +++

Re: [HACKERS] Unicode UTF-8 table formatting for psql text output

2009-09-23 Thread Roger Leigh
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:30:05AM -0700, Selena Deckelmann wrote: Brad says: The patched code compiles without any additional warnings. Lint gripes about a trailing ',' in 'typedef enum printTextRule' in print.h. Other additional lint seem to be false positives. The regression

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 11:13 +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Looking at the way cache invalidations are handled in two-phase transactions, it would be simpler if we store the shared cache invalidation messages in the twophase state file header, like we store deleted relations and subxids.

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 12:07 +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: it highlights that we need be careful to avoid putting any extra work into the normal recovery path. Otherwise bugs in hot standby related code can cause crash recovery to fail. Excellent point. I will put in additional protective

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 20:12, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: snip Updated in attached patch. This patch does not build on Windows, the error is: ip.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol __imp__wsaio...@36 referenced in function _pg_foreach_ifaddr ip.obj : error

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 12:07 +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: seems to be broken Agreed. Patch withdrawn for correction and rework. Nothing serious, but not much point doing further testing to all current issues resolved. Tracking of issues raised and later solved via Wiki. -- Simon Riggs

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Simon Riggs wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 11:13 +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: I note that we don't emit RunningXacts after a shutdown checkpoint. So if recovery starts at a shutdown checkpoint, we don't let read-only backends in until the first online checkpoint. Could we treat a shutdown

Re: [HACKERS] operator exclusion constraints [was: generalized index constraints]

2009-09-23 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Sun, 2009-09-20 at 19:42 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: Jeff Davis pg...@j-davis.com writes: I suppose I should just allow any index_elem. The only way I was able to make the grammar for that work is by using a reserved keyword. The possibilities that make the most sense to me are:

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCH] DefaultACLs

2009-09-23 Thread Petr Jelinek
I made some more small adjustments - mainly renaming stuff after Tom's comment on anonymous code blocks patch and removed one unused shared dependency. -- Regards Petr Jelinek (PJMODOS) defacl-2009-09-23.diff.gz Description: Unix tar archive -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list

[HACKERS] Getting the red out (of the buildfarm)

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
We have a number of buildfarm members that have been failing on HEAD consistently for some time. It looks from here that the following actions need to be taken: tapir, cardinal: need a newer version of flex installed wombat, eukaryote, chinchilla: these are all failing with LOG: could

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Simon Riggs wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 11:13 +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: I note that we don't emit RunningXacts after a shutdown checkpoint. So if recovery starts at a shutdown checkpoint, we don't let read-only backends in until the first online checkpoint.

Re: [HACKERS] Getting the red out (of the buildfarm)

2009-09-23 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 10:20 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: comet_moth, gothic_moth: these are failing the new plpython_unicode test in locale cs_CZ.ISO8859-2. Somebody needs to do something about that. If it's left to me I'll probably just remove the test that has multiple results. This is, at

Re: [HACKERS] Getting the red out (of the buildfarm)

2009-09-23 Thread Christian Ullrich
* Tom Lane wrote: wombat, eukaryote, chinchilla: these are all failing with ... I wonder how up-to-date their scripts are. chinchilla's was ancient, until five minutes ago. Thanks for the prodding. I'm running a --test HEAD now. -- Christian Ullrich -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing

Re: [HACKERS] operator exclusion constraints [was: generalized index constraints]

2009-09-23 Thread Jeff Davis
On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 15:10 +0300, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Using CHECK as part of the syntax of an EXCLUSION constraint will surely confuse the whole thing with CHECK constraints. USING OPERATOR is available, I think. USING won't work because one of the ways to specify the opclass in an

Re: [HACKERS] Anonymous code blocks

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Petr Jelinek pjmo...@pjmodos.net writes: Tom Lane napsal(a): The do.sgml file was missing from both your submissions, so I cooked up a very quick-and-dirty reference page. It could stand to be fleshed out a bit, probably. If there's useful material in your original, please submit a followon

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Jeff Janes
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: Heikki Linnakangas escribió: Simon Riggs wrote: On Mon, 2009-09-21 at 19:42 -0700, Jeff Janes wrote: jjanes=# begin; BEGIN jjanes=# lock table pgbench_history in access exclusive mode; LOCK TABLE

Re: [HACKERS] SELECT ... FOR UPDATE [WAIT integer | NOWAIT] for 8.5

2009-09-23 Thread Jeff Janes
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:07 AM, Boszormenyi Zoltan z...@cybertec.at wrote: Jeff Janes írta: Maybe I am biased in this because I am primarily thinking about how I would use such a feature, rather than how Hans-Juergen intends to use it, and maybe those uses differ. Hans-Juergen, could you

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Jeff Janes jeff.ja...@gmail.com writes: Unfortunately, isolation level serializable is not truly serializable. Usually it is good enough, but when it isn't good enough and you need an explicit table lock (a very rare but not nonexistent situation), I think it should either lock the table in

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Simon Riggs wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 12:07 +0300, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: seems to be broken Agreed. Looking at the relation lock stuff a bit more... When someone tries to acquire an AccessExclusiveLock, but can't get it immediately, we sleep while holding RecoveryInfoLock. That

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Josh Berkus
Simon, Patch withdrawn for correction and rework. Nothing serious, but not much point doing further testing to all current issues resolved. :-( Good thing we went for 4 CFs. Is there a GIT branch of Simon's current working version up somewhere? -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc.

Re: [HACKERS] SELECT ... FOR UPDATE [WAIT integer | NOWAIT] for 8.5

2009-09-23 Thread Josh Berkus
Jeff, Will statement_timeout not suffice for that use case? Well, currently statement_timeout doesn't affect waiting for locks. And as a DBA, I don't think I'd want the same timeout for executing queries as for waiting for a lock. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. www.pgexperts.com --

Re: [HACKERS] SELECT ... FOR UPDATE [WAIT integer | NOWAIT] for 8.5

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes: Jeff, Will statement_timeout not suffice for that use case? Well, currently statement_timeout doesn't affect waiting for locks. Sure it does. And as a DBA, I don't think I'd want the same timeout for executing queries as for waiting for a lock. Well,

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Josh Berkus wrote: Patch withdrawn for correction and rework. Nothing serious, but not much point doing further testing to all current issues resolved. :-( Good thing we went for 4 CFs. I think we should try to hammer this in in this commitfest. None of the issues found this far are too

Re: [HACKERS] Hot Standby 0.2.1

2009-09-23 Thread Josh Berkus
Heikki, I think we should try to hammer this in in this commitfest. None of the issues found this far are too serious, nothing that requires major rewrites. It would certainly be valuable to get users testing it starting with Alpha2 instead of waiting 2 months. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Stef Walter
Magnus Hagander wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 20:12, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: snip Updated in attached patch. This patch does not build on Windows, the error is: ip.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol __imp__wsaio...@36 referenced in function

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 18:41, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: Magnus Hagander wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 20:12, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: snip Updated in attached patch. This patch does not build on Windows, the error is: ip.obj : error LNK2019:

Re: [HACKERS] operator exclusion constraints [was: generalized index constraints]

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Jeff Davis pg...@j-davis.com writes: We can either eliminate the USING variant from opt_class (unless it's necessary for some reason or I missed it in the documentation), or we can use another word (e.g. WITH or WITH OPERATOR) if you don't like CHECK. Hmm ... we don't seem to have documented

Re: [HACKERS] SELECT ... FOR UPDATE [WAIT integer | NOWAIT] for 8.5

2009-09-23 Thread Josh Berkus
Tom, Well, that's exactly what Jeff is questioning. How big is the use-case for that exactly? I think that it's not necessary to have a 2nd GUC, but for a different reason than argued. For the applications I work on, I tend to set statement_timeout to something high designed just to catch

[HACKERS] Unicode Normalization

2009-09-23 Thread David E. Wheeler
Hackers, I just had a discussion on IRC about unicode normalization in PostgreSQL. Apparently there is not support for it, currently. Andrew Gierth points out that it's part of the SQL spec to support it, though: RhodiumToad:e.g. NORMALIZE(foo,NFC,len) justatheory:Oh, just a function

Re: [HACKERS] TODO item: Allow more complex user/database default GUC settings

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com writes: Robert Haas escribió: So here's the followup question - do you intend to do one of those things for this CommitFest, or should we mark this as Returned with Feedback once Bernd posts the rest of his review? What feedback is it supposed to be

Re: [HACKERS] Unicode Normalization

2009-09-23 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Sep 23, 2009, at 11:08 AM, David E. Wheeler wrote: I just had a discussion on IRC about unicode normalization in PostgreSQL. Apparently there is not support for it, currently. BTW, the only reference I found on the [to do list](http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Todo ) was: More sensible

Re: [HACKERS] Unicode Normalization

2009-09-23 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Sep 23, 2009, at 11:08 AM, David E. Wheeler wrote: I looked around and found the Public Software Group's utf8proc project, which even includes some PostgreSQL support (not, alas, for normalization). It has an MIT-licensed C library that offers these functions: Sorry, forgot the link:

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: Currently people are adding 0.0.0.0 to a default pg_hba.conf file in order to allow access from nearby machines, without running into the maintenance problems of hard coding IP addresses. However using 0.0.0.0 is

Re: [HACKERS] SELECT ... FOR UPDATE [WAIT integer | NOWAIT] for 8.5

2009-09-23 Thread Hans-Juergen Schoenig -- PostgreSQL
Tom Lane wrote: Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes: Jeff, Will statement_timeout not suffice for that use case? Well, currently statement_timeout doesn't affect waiting for locks. Sure it does. And as a DBA, I don't think I'd want the same timeout for

Re: [HACKERS] SELECT ... FOR UPDATE [WAIT integer | NOWAIT] for 8.5

2009-09-23 Thread Hans-Juergen Schoenig -- PostgreSQL
Jeff Janes wrote: Will statement_timeout not suffice for that use case? we tried to get around it without actually touching the core but we really need this functionality. patching the core here is not the primary desire we have. it is all about modeling some functionality which was truly

Re: [HACKERS] TODO item: Allow more complex user/database default GUC settings

2009-09-23 Thread Bernd Helmle
--On 23. September 2009 14:10:39 -0400 Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: FWIW, I looked the patch over quickly, and I think it will be fine once Bernd's comments are addressed. In particular I agree with the objection to the name pg_setting as being confusingly close to pg_settings. But

Re: [HACKERS] new version of PQconnectdb was:(Re: [HACKERS] Determining client_encoding from client locale)

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Jaime Casanova jcasa...@systemguards.com.ec writes: i extracted the functions to connect that Heikki put on psql in his patch for determining client_encoding from client locale and put it in libpq so i follow the PQconnectdbParams(* params[]) approach. I got around to looking at the actual

Re: [HACKERS] TODO item: Allow more complex user/database default GUC settings

2009-09-23 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Bernd Helmle maili...@oopsware.de wrote: --On 23. September 2009 14:10:39 -0400 Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: FWIW, I looked the patch over quickly, and I think it will be fine once Bernd's comments are addressed.  In particular I agree with the

Re: [HACKERS] [rfc] unicode escapes for extended strings

2009-09-23 Thread Marko Kreen
On 9/23/09, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 18:26 +0300, Marko Kreen wrote: Unicode escapes for extended strings. Committed. Thank you for handling the patch. I looked at your code for U and saw that you allow standalone second half of the surrogate pair

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Stef Walter
Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: Currently people are adding 0.0.0.0 to a default pg_hba.conf file in order to allow access from nearby machines, without running into the maintenance problems of hard coding IP addresses. However

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: Currently people are adding 0.0.0.0 to a default pg_hba.conf file in order to allow access from nearby machines,

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com writes: Allowing host names in pg_hba.conf would also solve this problem, although the last person who tried to implement this it was a topic of contention. I asked if I should focus on reverse DNS host names in pg_hba.conf or portability for this samenet

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Mark Mielke
If looking for representation - I consider the default pg_hba.conf to be problematic. Newbies start with trust access, and then do silly things to open it up. I would use samehost, and if samenet worked the same way it does for Postfix, I would probably use samenet. This information can be

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane wrote: In this case what particularly scares me is the idea that 'samenet' might be interpreted to let in a larger subnet than the user expected, eg 10/8 instead of 10.0.0/24. You'd likely not notice the problem until after you'd been broken into ... I haven't looked at this

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net writes: Tom Lane wrote: In this case what particularly scares me is the idea that 'samenet' might be interpreted to let in a larger subnet than the user expected, eg 10/8 instead of 10.0.0/24. You'd likely not notice the problem until after you'd been

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Mark Mielke
On 09/23/2009 05:37 PM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Tom Lane wrote: In this case what particularly scares me is the idea that 'samenet' might be interpreted to let in a larger subnet than the user expected, eg 10/8 instead of 10.0.0/24. You'd likely not notice the problem until after you'd been

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Mark Mielke m...@mark.mielke.cc writes: Postfix has this capability and it works fine. Hmm, have we looked at the Postfix code to see exactly how they do it? I'd be a *lot* more comfortable adopting logic that's been proven in the field than something written from scratch.

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Mark Mielke
On 09/23/2009 05:40 PM, Tom Lane wrote: I haven't looked at this feature at all, but I'd be inclined, on the grounds you quite reasonably cite, to require a netmask with samenet, rather than just ask the interface for its netmask. I was just thinking the same thing. Could we then unify

Re: [HACKERS] Adding \ev view editor?

2009-09-23 Thread daveg
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 02:26:05PM -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: andrew=# select pg_get_viewdef('foo',true); pg_get_viewdef -- SELECT 'a'::text AS b, ( SELECT 1 FROM dual) AS x, random() AS y,

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Stef Walter
Tom Lane wrote: Mark Mielke m...@mark.mielke.cc writes: Postfix has this capability and it works fine. Hmm, have we looked at the Postfix code to see exactly how they do it? I'd be a *lot* more comfortable adopting logic that's been proven in the field than something written from scratch.

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Stef Walter
Tom Lane wrote: Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com writes: Allowing host names in pg_hba.conf would also solve this problem, although the last person who tried to implement this it was a topic of contention. I asked if I should focus on reverse DNS host names in pg_hba.conf or portability

Re: [HACKERS] latest hstore patch

2009-09-23 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Sep 22, 2009, at 7:18 PM, Andrew Gierth wrote: Hstore patch incorporating changes as previously discussed. In addition the requested new features of conversions to and from array formats have been added (with docs). Thanks Andrew. Just a few thoughts for discussion: * From my previous

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Tom Lane
Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com writes: But if you like I can add additional defensive checks in the code to ignore those obviously invalid netmasks like /0. Basically the OS would be giving postgres bad information. Does postgres generally try to guard against this? I'll follow the

Re: [HACKERS] latest hstore patch

2009-09-23 Thread Andrew Gierth
David == David E Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: David Just a few thoughts for discussion: David * From my previous posts: Is it time to kill off `...@` and `~`,? David Not necessarily for your patch to handle, just wondering what David others think. I'll take them out if people think

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCH] Largeobject access controls

2009-09-23 Thread KaiGai Kohei
Jaime, KaiGai Kohei wrote: | ALTER LARGE OBJECT is working, but now that we can change the owner of | a LO we should be able to see who the actual owner is... i mean we | should add an owner column in \dl for psql (maybe \dl+) and maybe an | lo_owner() function. | | I would like to buy your

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCH] Largeobject access controls

2009-09-23 Thread Robert Haas
2009/9/23 KaiGai Kohei kai...@ak.jp.nec.com: Now, I'm revising the patch as follows: - pg_largeobject_meta is renamed to pg_largeobject_metadata - The GUC of largeobject_compat_dac is renamed to largeobject_compat_acl - psql supports \dl to show owner of the largeobject - add documentation

Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf: samehost and samenet [REVIEW]

2009-09-23 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com writes: Allowing host names in pg_hba.conf would also solve this problem, although the last person who tried to implement this it was a topic of contention. I

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCH] Largeobject access controls

2009-09-23 Thread KaiGai Kohei
Robert Haas wrote: 2009/9/23 KaiGai Kohei kai...@ak.jp.nec.com: Now, I'm revising the patch as follows: - pg_largeobject_meta is renamed to pg_largeobject_metadata - The GUC of largeobject_compat_dac is renamed to largeobject_compat_acl - psql supports \dl to show owner of the largeobject -

Re: [HACKERS] Using results from INSERT ... RETURNING

2009-09-23 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: Right now, it looks like most of the code is being shared between all three plan types.  I'm pretty suspicious of how much code this patch moves around and how little of it is

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCH] Largeobject access controls

2009-09-23 Thread KaiGai Kohei
Now, I'm revising the patch as follows: - pg_largeobject_meta is renamed to pg_largeobject_metadata - The GUC of largeobject_compat_dac is renamed to largeobject_compat_acl - psql supports \dl to show owner of the largeobject - add documentation for the GUC, and add it to the

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCH] Largeobject access controls

2009-09-23 Thread Jaime Casanova
2009/9/23 KaiGai Kohei kai...@ak.jp.nec.com: Jaime, KaiGai Kohei wrote: | ALTER LARGE OBJECT is working, but now that we can change the owner of | a LO we should be able to see who the actual owner is... i mean we | should add an owner column in \dl for psql (maybe \dl+) and maybe an |