Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Dec 9, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: - add support for 'relocatable' boolean property in the control file, as discussed on list This still isn't ideal, but I think it's a big improvement. Thanks. Glad you like it :) If you see

Re: [HACKERS] To Signal The postmaster

2010-12-10 Thread Fujii Masao
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:51 PM, aaliya zarrin aaliya.zar...@gmail.com wrote: Can anybody tell after finding the trigger file what steps does postgres follow? The server applies all the WAL records available, performs checkpoint, renames recovery.conf, and gets out of recovery mode. Regards,

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread BRUSSER Michael
On 12/09/2010 03:36 PM, BRUSSER Michael wrote: No, we do not use --with-system-tzdata option. I looked at the makefile and at the output of pg_config. We may need to do some cleanup there, but I did not pick any clues. The problem occurs on all our UNIX platforms. Is there anything I could

Re: [HACKERS] To Signal The postmaster

2010-12-10 Thread aaliya zarrin
Hi , I want to stop the recovery forcefully what shall I do? Rather say, after finding the trigger file I want postgres to switch over? Which function shall I call? Where the flow is transfer exactly after finding the trigger file? On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Fujii Masao

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 4:08 AM, BRUSSER Michael michael.brus...@3ds.com wrote: - initdb: initdb  -D  /home/local_path/pgdata   -L   /home/local_path/share -E UTF8 --locale=C  \  -d  2 log2   log1 log1 ends with line  creating template1 database in /home/local_path/pgdata/base/1 ... In

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Vaibhav Kaushal vaibhavkaushal...@gmail.com wrote: Most of you already know I am new to this list and newer to any OSS development. However, while browsing the source code (of 9.0.1) I find that there is only one way to store relations on disk - the magnetic

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 12/10/2010 07:32 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 4:08 AM, BRUSSER Michael michael.brus...@3ds.com wrote: - initdb: initdb -D /home/local_path/pgdata -L /home/local_path/share -E UTF8 --locale=C \ -d 2 log2 log1 log1 ends with line creating template1 database

Re: [HACKERS] BufFreelistLock

2010-12-10 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Excerpts from Jim Nasby's message of jue dic 09 16:54:24 -0300 2010: Ideally, the clock sweep would be run by bgwriter and not individual backends. In that case it shouldn't matter much what the performance of the sweep is. To do that I think we'd want the bgwriter to target there being X

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread BRUSSER Michael
In log2 I got the same errors as I mentioned earlier: LOG: could not open directory /home/build-path/.../share/timezone: No such file or directory ... ... Does it really have a pathname with three dots here? I'd have more confidence we knew what we were looking at if you sent the

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:00 AM, BRUSSER Michael michael.brus...@3ds.com wrote: 1) The pathnames referenced in the log do not have any dots, I just truncated them -     they are absolute pathnames to where the timezone files are locates in the source or build tree     I'll post the entire

Re: [HACKERS] serializable read only deferrable

2010-12-10 Thread Kevin Grittner
Dan Ports wrote: On Tue, Dec 07, 2010 at 10:14:24AM -0600, Kevin Grittner wrote: The only thing I'm worried about here is how much risk of starvation remains. You'd need to wait until there are no running r/w transactions accessing overlapping data sets; for some applications that might

Re: [HACKERS] BufFreelistLock

2010-12-10 Thread Jeff Janes
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: Excerpts from Jim Nasby's message of jue dic 09 16:54:24 -0300 2010: Ideally, the clock sweep would be run by bgwriter and not individual backends. In that case it shouldn't matter much what the performance of

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 12/10/2010 09:55 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:00 AM, BRUSSER Michael michael.brus...@3ds.com wrote: 1) The pathnames referenced in the log do not have any dots, I just truncated them - they are absolute pathnames to where the timezone files are locates in the

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread BRUSSER Michael
Well, why are you configuring the prefix to be inside your build tree? This is an odd thing to do. The prefix should be set to where you expect to install the files, not where you're building them. CONFIGURE = '--prefix=/home/build-path/build/Linux/qe_x86_64' '--without-readline'

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Vaibhav Kaushal vaibhavkaushal...@gmail.com wrote: Most of you already know I am new to this list and newer to any OSS development. However, while browsing the source code (of 9.0.1) I find that there is only one way

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Dimitri Fontaine dimi...@2ndquadrant.fr writes: David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: What if $extension.control exists? Is it a byproduct of the .in file from previous `make` run or a user file? What if we have both the .in and the make variable because people are confused? Or both

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: Are there any actual remaining use-cases for that sed step? The goal here is to allow extension authors to maintain their version number in the Makefile rather than in the Makefile and in the control file separately. Having the same version number in more than

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 12/10/2010 10:25 AM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Not claiming any knowledge in this area - would it be reasonable to expect that if -L option works for other input files it should also work for timezones? ...this seems reasonable. OK, this has nothing at all to do with the

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net wrote: Here's my understanding. It's not initdb that's really complaining. The timezone files are not inputs to initdb. It's the postgres that initdb invokes that's complaining. That was my impression, too, from the log that

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Extended query protocol and exact types matches.

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 2:53 AM, Dmitriy Igrishin dmit...@gmail.com wrote: [ message that was forwarded to three mailing lists in an 12 hour period ] Come on, give me a break! How quickly do you expect people to answer your questions? It's reasonable to follow up if you haven't heart anything

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: So in theory we could have a GUC under file locations to override this, similarly to data_directory or hba_file or ident_file. But since it's been like this for a really long time (I think), I wouldn't be inclined to go monkeying with it unless more

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Dimitri Fontaine dimi...@2ndquadrant.fr writes: Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: Are there any actual remaining use-cases for that sed step? The goal here is to allow extension authors to maintain their version number in the Makefile rather than in the Makefile and in the control file

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: Why is it in the makefile at all? If the makefile does need to know it, why don't we have it scrape the number out of the control file? Or even more to the point, since when do we need version numbers in extensions? It's in the Makefile so that you find it

Re: [HACKERS] BufFreelistLock

2010-12-10 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Excerpts from Jeff Janes's message of vie dic 10 12:24:34 -0300 2010: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: Excerpts from Jim Nasby's message of jue dic 09 16:54:24 -0300 2010: To do that I think we'd want the bgwriter to target there being X

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Extended query protocol and exact types matches.

2010-12-10 Thread Dmitriy Igrishin
Hey Robert, 2010/12/10 Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 2:53 AM, Dmitriy Igrishin dmit...@gmail.com wrote: [ message that was forwarded to three mailing lists in an 12 hour period ] Come on, give me a break! Please sorry ! But I don't mail to you personally.

Re: [HACKERS] BufFreelistLock

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com writes: Excerpts from Jeff Janes's message of vie dic 10 12:24:34 -0300 2010: As far as I can tell, bgwriter never adds things to the freelist. That is only done at start up, and when a relation or a database is dropped. The clock sweep does the vast

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Extended query protocol and exact types matches.

2010-12-10 Thread Kevin Grittner
Dmitriy Igrishin wrote: Where is it written ? http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Guide_to_reporting_problems#Things_Not_To_Do -Kevin -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Extended query protocol and exact types matches.

2010-12-10 Thread Dmitriy Igrishin
Hey Kevin, Oh, I am sorry! Thanks! 2010/12/10 Kevin Grittner kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov Dmitriy Igrishin wrote: Where is it written ? http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Guide_to_reporting_problems#Things_Not_To_Do -Kevin -- // Dmitriy.

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Dimitri Fontaine dimi...@2ndquadrant.fr writes: Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: Why is it in the makefile at all? If the makefile does need to know it, why don't we have it scrape the number out of the control file? Or even more to the point, since when do we need version numbers in

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:26 AM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: What if $extension.control exists? Is it a byproduct of the .in file from previous `make` run or a user file? What if we have both the .in and the make variable because people are confused? Or both the make variables and a .control and not

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 7:32 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Are there any actual remaining use-cases for that sed step? It's certainly vestigial as far as the contrib modules are concerned: it would be simpler and more readable to replace MODULE_PATHNAME with $libdir in the sources. Unless somebody can

Re: [HACKERS] Why percent_rank is so slower than rank?

2010-12-10 Thread Hitoshi Harada
2010/12/10 Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us: I wrote: We're throwing away one tuple at a time as we advance forward through the tuplestore, and moving 10+ tuple pointers each time.  Ugh. This code was all right when written, because (IIRC) the mergejoin case was actually the only caller.  But

Re: [HACKERS] Why percent_rank is so slower than rank?

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Hitoshi Harada umi.tan...@gmail.com writes: I see it's too late now that you've committed it, Patches can always be reverted... but it seems there was another way to avoid it by not trimming from percent_rank() individually. Once the whole partition is fit to the memory, you don't need to

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Extended query protocol and exact types matches.

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Dmitriy Igrishin dmit...@gmail.com wrote: It would be quicker to answer my question and help than to teach me the alphabet of communication. Although, thank you, and for that :-) It would be quicker still to ignore your email altogether, but I'm guessing you're

Re: [HACKERS] Why percent_rank is so slower than rank?

2010-12-10 Thread Hitoshi Harada
2010/12/11 Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us: Hitoshi Harada umi.tan...@gmail.com writes: I see it's too late now that you've committed it, Patches can always be reverted... but it seems there was another way to avoid it by not trimming from percent_rank() individually. Once the whole partition

Re: [HACKERS] SynchRep; wait-forever and shutdown

2010-12-10 Thread Josh Berkus
3. Shutdown should abort all the blocking transactions? * Problem is that a client thinks that those transactions have been aborted even though those WAL records have been written on the master. But this is very common problem for DBMS, so we don't need to worry about

Re: [HACKERS] On-the-fly index tuple deletion vs. hot_standby

2010-12-10 Thread Noah Misch
On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 09:48:25AM +, Simon Riggs wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 21:43 +0200, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: On 29.11.2010 08:10, Noah Misch wrote: I have a hot_standby system and use it to bear the load of various reporting queries that take 15-60 minutes each. In an

Re: [HACKERS] Fwd: Extended query protocol and exact types matches.

2010-12-10 Thread Dmitriy Igrishin
2010/12/10 Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Dmitriy Igrishin dmit...@gmail.com wrote: It would be quicker to answer my question and help than to teach me the alphabet of communication. Although, thank you, and for that :-) It would be quicker still to

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 12/10/2010 11:19 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Robert Haasrobertmh...@gmail.com writes: So in theory we could have a GUC under file locations to override this, similarly to data_directory or hba_file or ident_file. But since it's been like this for a really long time (I think), I wouldn't be

Re: [HACKERS] Why percent_rank is so slower than rank?

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Hitoshi Harada umi.tan...@gmail.com writes: Hm? Once percent_rank() scans to the partition end, any other window functions that scans row by row don't need to care the memory reduction, aren't they? Or more generally, if the partition was scanned to the end, we don't need to trim tuplestore

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I'm not convinced that this is actually a requirement, or that doing it this specific way is a good solution.  In particular, keeping the version number in the system catalogs seems pretty dubious.  The common method for

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: ... In particular, keeping the version number in the system catalogs seems pretty dubious.  The common method for upgrading an already-installed contrib module just involves dropping

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Tom Lane wrote: True. Consider a situation like an RPM upgrade: it's going to drop in a new .so version, *and nothing else*. It's pure fantasy to imagine that the RPM script is going to find all your databases and execute some SQL commands against them. Since

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: This doesn't answer my question of why it couldn't be done the other way. Why does the makefile need to know it? If it does need to know it, couldn't it get it out of the control file instead of vice versa? Well the Makefile support is just a facility to

Re: [HACKERS] initdb failure with Postgres 8.4.4

2010-12-10 Thread BRUSSER Michael
On 12/10/2010 11:19 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Robert Haasrobertmh...@gmail.com writes: So in theory we could have a GUC under file locations to override this, similarly to data_directory or hba_file or ident_file. But since it's been like this for a really long time (I think), I wouldn't be

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: Well the Makefile support is just a facility to fill in the control file automatically for you, on the grounds that you're probably already maintaining your version number in the Makefile. Or that it's easy to get it there, as in:

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Dec 10, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: Upgrade are left for a future patch, did we decide. Still, it seems to me that we will support some upgrade scripts so that author can decide what to do knowing current and next version, and

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Dimitri Fontaine dimi...@2ndquadrant.fr writes: Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: This doesn't answer my question of why it couldn't be done the other way. Why does the makefile need to know it? If it does need to know it, couldn't it get it out of the control file instead of vice versa?

Re: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Why would you choose to maintain it in the Makefile? In most cases makefiles are the least likely thing to be changing during a minor update. I would think that the right place for it is in the C code (if we're trying to version .so files) or

ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE; (was: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16)

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: Why would you choose to maintain it in the Makefile? In most cases makefiles are the least likely thing to be changing during a minor update. I must have a packager skewed view of things here, but ok, point noted. I would think that the right place for

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Daniel Loureiro
Most of you already know I am new to this list and newer to any OSS development. However, while browsing the source code (of 9.0.1) I find that there is only one way to store relations on disk - the magnetic disk. The fact that it's called md.c is a hangover from the '80s. These days, the

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Josh Berkus
On 12/10/10 12:17 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: Or do we want contrib's specific version numbers that are not all the same as the current PostgreSQL version number? I think that each contrib needs its own version numbers. The reason being that most minor updates don't touch contrib. Also, once

Re: [HACKERS] create tablespace fails silently, or succeeds improperly

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
I'm finally getting around to something that's been on my todo list for a couple of months. I wrote: Basically, I'm thinking that given CREATE TABLESPACE LOCATION '/foo/bar' the creation and properties of /foo/bar/PG_9.0_201004261 ought to be handled *exactly* the way that the -D target

Re: [HACKERS] SQL/MED - file_fdw

2010-12-10 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 12/04/2010 11:11 PM, Itagaki Takahiro wrote: On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 07:24, Andrew Dunstanand...@dunslane.net wrote: Looking at file_parser.c, it seems to be largely taken from copy.c. Wouldn't it be better to call those functions, or refactor them so they are callable if necessary? We

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes: On 12/10/10 12:17 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: Or do we want contrib's specific version numbers that are not all the same as the current PostgreSQL version number? I think that each contrib needs its own version numbers. The reason being that most minor

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes: I think that each contrib needs its own version numbers. The reason being that most minor updates don't touch contrib. Fair enough. What are the version numbers of each current contribs? Also, once extensions and pgxn are operating full swing, I see

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 12/10/2010 03:24 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: Also, once extensions and pgxn are operating full swing, I see contrib going away anyway ... We've heard this before, but I'm still quite skeptical about it. Quite apart from anything else we should keep enough extensions in core to test the

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 15:42 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 12/10/2010 03:24 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: Also, once extensions and pgxn are operating full swing, I see contrib going away anyway ... We've heard this before, but I'm still quite skeptical about it. Quite apart from anything

Re: ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE; (was: [HACKERS] Extensions, patch v16)

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Dimitri Fontaine dimi...@2ndquadrant.fr writes: On to your question about the upgrade design, in order not to paint ourselves into a corner. What I now have in mind is the following: When there's an extension upgrade the user will have to install the new files (.so, .sql, .control) and run an

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com writes: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 15:42 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 12/10/2010 03:24 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: Also, once extensions and pgxn are operating full swing, I see contrib going away anyway ... We've heard this before, but I'm still quite

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: I don't believe that extension SQL scripts should rely on DO blocks. There is no requirement that plpgsql be installed, and we're not going to create one as part of this feature. What this means is that the design you offer above doesn't work at all, since

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Josh Berkus
On 12/10/10 12:34 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes: I think that each contrib needs its own version numbers. The reason being that most minor updates don't touch contrib. Fair enough. What are the version numbers of each current contribs? I'd say that for

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes: The alternative would be to match postgresql minor version numbering exactly, and then come up with some way to have a no-op upgrade in the frequent cases where the contrib module isn't changed during a minor release. This would also require some kind of

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Dimitri Fontaine dimi...@2ndquadrant.fr wrote: Now, what about having the control file host an 'upgrade' property where to put the script name? We would have to support a way for this filename to depend on the already installed version, I'm thinking that %v

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Jeff Janes
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Daniel Loureiro loureir...@gmail.com wrote: Most of you already know I am new to this list and newer to any OSS development. However, while browsing the source code (of 9.0.1) I find that there is only one way to store relations on disk - the magnetic disk.

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: I'd say that for anything in /contrib, it gets a new version with each major version of postgresql, but not with each minor version. Thus, say, dblink when 9.1.0 is release would be dblink 9.1-1. If in 9.1.4 we fix a bug in dblink, then it

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:50 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: (Actually, we could probably assume that the target version is implicitly the current version, as identified from the control file, and omit that from the script file names. That would avoid ambiguity if version numbers can have more than

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:50 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: I don't think we can safely design around one part version numbers here, because I'm yet to see that happening in any extension I've had my hands on, which means a few already, as you can

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:50 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: I don't think we can safely design around one part version numbers here, because I'm yet to see that happening in any extension I've had my

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:50 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: (Actually, we could probably assume that the target version is implicitly the current version, as identified from the control file, and omit that from the script file names. That would avoid

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: You keep making extension authors have to do more work. I keep trying to make it so they can do less. We want the barrier to be as low as possible, which means a lot of DRY. Make it *possible* to do more complicated things, but don't *require* it.

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes: I'd say that for anything in /contrib, it gets a new version with each major version of postgresql, but not with each minor version. Thus, say, dblink when 9.1.0 is release would be dblink 9.1-1. If in 9.1.4 we fix a bug in dblink, then it becomes dblink

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:40 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Since you know the existing version number, you just run all that come after. For example, if the current version is 1.12, then you know to run foo-1.13.sql and foo-1.15.sql. If we assume the target is the current version, then we only need the

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Jeff Janes jeff.ja...@gmail.com writes: Of course if you do a full table scan because their are no better options, then it scans sequentially. But you have to scan the pages in *some* order, and it is hard to see how something other than sequential would be systematically better. In fact, if

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: You keep making extension authors have to do more work. I keep trying to make it so they can do less. We want the barrier to be as low as possible, which means a lot of DRY. Make it *possible*

Re: [HACKERS] create tablespace fails silently, or succeeds improperly

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I'm finally getting around to something that's been on my todo list for a couple of months. I wrote: Basically, I'm thinking that given CREATE TABLESPACE LOCATION '/foo/bar' the creation and properties of

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: If we assume the target is the current version, then we only need the old-version number in the file name, so it doesn't matter how many parts it has. IIUC, that puts even more work on the shoulders of the extension authors, because the file named

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Dimitri Fontaine dimi...@2ndquadrant.fr writes: David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: You keep making extension authors have to do more work. I keep trying to make it so they can do less. We want the barrier to be as low as possible, which means a lot of DRY. Make it *possible* to do

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:55 PM, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes: If we assume the target is the current version, then we only need the old-version number in the file name, so it doesn't matter how many parts it has. IIUC, that puts even more work on the shoulders of

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Maybe I misread David's meaning, but I thought he was saying that there's no value in inventing all those control file entries in the first place. Just hard-wire in ALTER EXTENSION UPGRADE the convention that the name of an upgrade script to

Re: [HACKERS] create tablespace fails silently, or succeeds improperly

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: +1 for src/port. ... At the moment, I'm not feeling hot to back-patch this. Yeah, that squares with my feelings. Will go do it that way, unless other people object. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: Yeah, it should be *to* 1.12. FWIW, this is how Bricolage upgrade scripts are handled: version-string-named directories with the appropriate scripts to upgrade *to* the named version number. But you still have to know what you're upgrading

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Josh Berkus
I believe that PostgreSQL was been developed and optimized for sequential access. To get full advantage of SSDs its necessary to rewrite almost the whole project - there are so much code written with the sequential mechanism in mind. You can believe whatever you want, that doesn't make it

Re: [HACKERS] create tablespace fails silently, or succeeds improperly

2010-12-10 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 12/10/2010 06:01 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Robert Haasrobertmh...@gmail.com writes: +1 for src/port. ... At the moment, I'm not feeling hot to back-patch this. Yeah, that squares with my feelings. Will go do it that way, unless other people object. I think this is

[HACKERS] would hw acceleration help postgres (databases in general) ?

2010-12-10 Thread Hamza Bin Sohail
Hello hackers, I think i'm at the right place to ask this question. Based on your experience and the fact that you have written the Postgres code, can you tell what a rough break-down - in your opinion - is for the time the database spends time just fetching and writing stuff to memory and

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 15:08 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: I believe that PostgreSQL was been developed and optimized for sequential access. To get full advantage of SSDs its necessary to rewrite almost the whole project - there are so much code written with the sequential mechanism in mind.

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: Heck, even RAM isn't 1.0.  I'm also involved with the Redis project, which is an in-memory database.  Even for a pure-RAM database, it turns out that just using linked lists and 100% random access is slower than accessing

Re: [HACKERS] would hw acceleration help postgres (databases in general) ?

2010-12-10 Thread Dann Corbit
-Original Message- From: pgsql-hackers-ow...@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-hackers- ow...@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Hamza Bin Sohail Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 3:10 PM To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: [HACKERS] would hw acceleration help postgres (databases in

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Yeah, it should be *to* 1.12. FWIW, this is how Bricolage upgrade scripts are handled: version-string-named directories with the appropriate scripts to upgrade *to* the named version number. But you still have to know what you're upgrading

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Josh Berkus
Heck, even RAM isn't 1.0. I'm also involved with the Redis project, which is an in-memory database. Even for a pure-RAM database, it turns out that just using linked lists and 100% random access is slower than accessing page images. That's a slightly different problem, though.

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Jeff Janes
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote: Actually, the only (that I know of) optimized for sequential access code we have would be for the xlogs. And even that is more of a book-keeping simplification, rather than an optimization. You have to know where

Re: [HACKERS] Anyone for SSDs?

2010-12-10 Thread Hannu Krosing
On 10.12.2010 21:21, Daniel Loureiro wrote: The fact that it's called md.c is a hangover from the '80s. These days, the logic that the Berkeley guys envisioned being at that code level is generally in kernel device drivers. md.c can drive anything that behaves as a block device + filesystem,

Re: [HACKERS] would hw acceleration help postgres (databases in general) ?

2010-12-10 Thread Josh Berkus
On 12/10/10 3:09 PM, Hamza Bin Sohail wrote: There is not much utility in doing this if there aren't considerable compute- intensive operations in the database (which i would be surprise if true ). I would suspect joins, complex queries etc may be very compute-intensive. Please correct me

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Dec 10, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Yeah, it should be *to* 1.12. FWIW, this is how Bricolage upgrade scripts are handled: version-string-named directories with the appropriate scripts to upgrade *to* the named version number. But you

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Huh? It's in the pg_extension catalog. How do you select which upgrade script to apply? You run all those that contain version numbers higher than the currently-installed one. This of course assumes that one can correctly tell that one version

Re: [HACKERS] would hw acceleration help postgres (databases in general) ?

2010-12-10 Thread Jeff Janes
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Hamza Bin Sohail hsoh...@purdue.edu wrote: Hello hackers, I think i'm at the right place to ask this question. Based on your experience and the fact that you have written the Postgres code, can you tell what a rough break-down - in your opinion - is for the

Re: [HACKERS] unlogged tables

2010-12-10 Thread Cédric Villemain
2010/12/8 Kineticode Billing da...@kineticode.com: On Dec 8, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Chris Browne wrote: Other possibilities include TRANSIENT, EPHEMERAL, TRANSIENT, TENUOUS. EVANESCENT. UNSAFE ? -- Cédric Villemain               2ndQuadrant http://2ndQuadrant.fr/     PostgreSQL : Expertise,

Re: [HACKERS] unlogged tables

2010-12-10 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Dec 10, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Cédric Villemain wrote: Other possibilities include TRANSIENT, EPHEMERAL, TRANSIENT, TENUOUS. EVANESCENT. UNSAFE ? LOLZ. David -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription:

Re: [HACKERS] would hw acceleration help postgres (databases in general) ?

2010-12-10 Thread Hamza Bin Sohail
Thanks alot for all the replies. Very helpful, really appreciate it. - Original Message - From: Jeff Janes jeff.ja...@gmail.com To: Hamza Bin Sohail hsoh...@purdue.edu Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [HACKERS] would hw acceleration

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER EXTENSION ... UPGRADE;

2010-12-10 Thread Tom Lane
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Dec 10, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Tom Lane wrote: How do you select which upgrade script to apply? You run all those that contain version numbers higher than the currently-installed one. This of course assumes that one can correctly tell that one

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