damaged and manually fixed them. Without checksums, there's no way to
even tell for sure what is broken.
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. If the
install had checksums, I could have figured out which blocks were
damaged and manually fixed them. Without checksums, there really was
nowhere to go except dump/reload.
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?
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cases and review the code to see whether that
concept helps or not.
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To make changes
that support it. I haven't tried it just because that looked
to me like a large job refactoring the entire fsync absorb mechanism,
and I've never had enough funding to take it on. That approach has a
lot of good properties, if it could be made to work without a lot of
code changes.
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the
potential gain is measured.
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today, even if the code for it isn't being
reviewed heavily yet.
I don't quite understand yet what's missing on the writer side. If you
could help explain what's missing there, I would like to read about that.
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that possibility has to block this feature
from being adopted though. That line of thinking leads toward removing
trust authentication, because that's similarly abused with cut and paste
tutorials.
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are:
listen_addresses, port, shared_buffers, log_directory, log_filename
Obvious missing thing from your unsafe list that is also changed
regularly is max_connection. I count 6 parameters that are both unsafe
and changed regularly.
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for this feature, and that's now where the
controversial parts are either. That's the part I thought should be
looked at for commit now. I'd like to get the change size Amit is
carrying around and (and other people are reviewing) reduced here.
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consider
a config directory based approach. But from the perspective of what can
get committed first, the config directory really should go first.
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version of the Debian packaging. Debian packaging
absolutely will want to relocate any new files added here into their
/etc directory tree as well, where they will be writeable. They will
not go into the $PGDATA directory.
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/O penalty that's being avoided right now. Checkpoints are
already postponing these random writes as long as possible. You have to
take care of them eventually though.
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controllers also have firmware that does this sort of work, and Postgres
might do it as part of vacuum cleanup. But note that such work faces
exactly the same problems as writing the data out in the first place.
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. But when you crash, expect to be
down for a significant chunk of an hour, as you go back to sort out all
of the work postponed before.
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/linux/library/l-fs8/index.html
Spoiler: if you use a workload that has checkpoint issues, it doesn't
help PostgreSQL latency. Just like using a large write cache, you gain
some burst performance, but eventually you pay for it with extra latency
somewhere.
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helpful too.
I have a project for this summer that includes reviving this topic and
making sure it works on some real-world systems. If you want to work on
this too, I can easily combine that project into what you're doing.
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to care about it being right. My eyes were
starting to glaze over by the end of staring at this flock.
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On 7/23/13 10:56 AM, Robert Haas wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:48 PM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
We know that a 1GB relation segment can take a really long time to write
out. That could include up to 128 changed 8K pages, and we allow all of
them to get dirty before any
of
this size. The rough fairness promises of the CommitFest seem satisfied
to me though.
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of bogus
material submitted here. It's the high standards for review and commit
that are the key filter. The importance of the process to the result
isn't weighed as heavily as I think it should be.
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client
too. It's not ever adjusted based on what individual transactions do.
I also noted the way this can cause schedule lag for some time after a
slow transaction finishes, since that's the main issue observed so far.
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lag can highlight a
subtle problem there even if the target rate limit is met in the end.
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diff --git a/contrib/pgbench/pgbench.c b/contrib/pgbench/pgbench.c
new
. This is a very promising
looking performance feature.
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WAL-lz-v3.xls
Description: MS-Excel spreadsheet
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validate_conf_option could be
committed even with other parts still being discussed. Exactly how to
best break this out into useful commits is another decision that really
needs some input from the potential committer though.
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that if committed at all, the ability to turn this off I was
asking about would be necessary. It sounds like this *could* work like
how minimal WAL archiving levels allow optimizations that are disabled
at higher ones--like the COPY into a truncated/new table cheat.
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on
it. (This is a bit much to expect new reviewers to chew on usefully)
I've been working on that here, but I don't have anything I can publicly
commit to yet.
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that to try game
their leaderboard ranking.
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their known area(s) of expertise.
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output format would be
useful though, rather than that a different default one is a good idea.
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(ALTER SYSTEM patch): Alvaro
volunteered to look at this if no one else gets to it first.
UNNEST() (and other functions) WITH ORDINALITY: Greg Stark
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faster speed on
sequential disk throughput. Changing the block size might work better
in some cases, but not many people are willing to do that. Read-ahead
is very easy to change at any time.
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completely backwards from the actual work ratio. If
all I'm getting out of something is credit, I'd at least like it to be
an appropriate amount of it.
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On 7/22/13 10:48 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com writes:
Remove unused targets from plan: Alvaro? (He reviewed it already)
Really I should do that one, but it seems like all my available cycles
have been going into bug fixing lately :-(
I just put you down
I'm working on attempts to
quantify the total writes to each 1GB relation chunk. That's the most
promising path forward on the checkpoint problem I've found.
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with checkpoint logging turned way up, but
they're not all in the dbt2 toolset yet as far as I know.
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that method one day.
The idea of surveying patents in some area so that their methods can be
avoided in code you develop, that is a reasonable private stance to
take. But don't do that on the lists.
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that, not when checkpoint_timeout is already there with a direct,
simple control on the exact same trade-off.
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the contract with the administrator was frowned on by this project. If
people want this sort of behavior in the server, I'm satisfied my
distaste for the idea and the reasoning behind it is clear now.
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the
commit that changed this, or if the patch wasn't referring to the right
type of error originally.
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the community with HP
controllers--I have even one myself now--but we could use more LSI Logic
and Adaptec based systems.
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and send out a new version. I'm hopeful that v18
will finally be the one that everyone likes.
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-prone. I don't think anyone
would disagree that the current patch is doing enough of that error
checking work that the error checking itself is the most likely thing to
break.
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.
This useful piece was just presented at PGCon:
http://www.pgcon.org/2013/schedule/attachments/273_PGcon2013-kaigai-row-level-security.pdf
That is very up to date intro to the big picture issues.
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this
that the user will see they tried to limit at 1, but they only got
7135, so something must not have worked as expected.
Tatsuo: most of my tests were on Mac OS and Linux, I actually tested
the Mac version a lot more than any other here. I didn't do any testing
on Windows.
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, the effect of changes like this has always averaged out to
zero. You should try it sometime. Then we can have a useful discussion
of non-trivial results instead of you continuing to tell me I don't
understand things.
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always reasonable though. When something delays every client, it
counts that against every active client's lag, and that's the right
thing to do.
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time was moved forward to match
the transaction end each time, I think that would give the lag
definition you're looking for. That's fine to me too, if Fabien doesn't
have a good reason to reject the idea. We would need to make sure that
doesn't break some part of the design too.
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workload. That particular problem
was so common I updated pgbench-tools recently to track table
maintenance time between tests, because that demonstrated an issue even
when the TPS numbers all looked fine.
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be right
that the change isn't really correct because of how the connection is
compared to null as a way to see if it's active. I initially added a
more complicated finished state to the whole mess that tracked this
more carefully. I may need to return to that idea now.
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today.
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diff --git a/contrib/pgbench/pgbench.c b/contrib/pgbench/pgbench.c
new file mode 100644
index 08095a9..8dc81e5
*** a/contrib/pgbench/pgbench.c
--- b
promising turn out to have this sort of problem.
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On 6/27/13 11:08 AM, Robert Haas wrote:
I'm pretty sure Greg Smith tried it the fixed-sleep thing before and
it didn't work that well.
That's correct, I spent about a year whipping that particular horse and
submitted improvements on it to the community.
http://www.postgresql.org/message-id
On 7/14/13 2:48 PM, Fabien COELHO wrote:
You attached my v13. Could you send your v14?
Correct patch (and the little one from me again) attached this time.
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are very disconnected right now, and
file range data seems the right missing piece to connect them well.
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in improving this area, it just
takes a lot of work to do it.
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attachment: NOTPM-Checkpoints.png
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reason that companies like Oracle stopped pushing so hard on
recommending raw partitions.
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don't think there needs to be a CLI interface for putting the
alternate possible text into the trigger--that you can ask for 'fast'
startup. It's nice to have available as an expert, but it's fine for
that to be harder to do.
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nicely. I'd like to get this one out
of the commitfest so I can move onto looking at something else.
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) or significantly faster (if
implemented in the kernel).
That's what I'm seeing everywhere too. I'm happy that we've spent
enough time chasing after potential issues without finding anything now.
Pull out the GUC that was added for default and this is ready to commit.
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marking it returned with feedback. If anyone
else has comments, I'm still open to discussion here too.
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, above the noise floor, this is still the right thing to do.
I fully agree that this needs to fully automatic--no GUC--before it's
worth committing. If we can't figure out the right thing to do now,
there's little hope anyone else will in a later tuning expedition.
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to make the configure time test more complicated.
Whether posix_fallocate is defined isn't sensitive enough; on Linux it
may be the case that this only is usable when fallocate() is also there.
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it behaved for you here.
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, the old ones need to just not get worse.
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. I've certainly beaten on the feature for long enough now.
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To make changes to your
writer runs.
This refactoring idea will make that hard to keep around. I think this
is OK though. Switching to a latch based design should eliminate the
bgwriter_delay, which means you won't have this worst case of a 200ms
stall while heavy activity is incoming.
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don't do enough review.
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fine too.
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#!/bin/bash
make
make install
rm pgbench_log* nohup.out
#nohup pgbench -c 25 -T 30 -l -d -f select.sql -s 10 pgbench
nohup pgbench -c 25 -T 30 -l -d
takes those and a derived
TPS/s number and plots them, which made it easier for me to spot this
weirdness. But I've already moved onto analyzing the raw latency data
instead, I can see the issue without the graph once I've duplicated the
conditions.
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to duplicate Jon's test program on a few machines here, and
then see if that turns into a useful latency improvement for clients.
I'm trying to get this pgbench rate limit stuff working first though,
because one of the tests I had in mind for WAL creation overhead would
benefit from it.
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of the rate
limit throttle needs to operate in the same place. I have to redo a few
things to confirm this actually fixes the issue, as well as look at
Fabien's later updates to this since I wandered off debugging. I'm sure
it's in the area of code I'm poking at now though.
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pgbench_accounts WHERE aid = 299080;
1371238832.086587 client 12 receiving
1371238832.086662 calling select
1371238832.231032 client 12 receiving
1371238832.231032 client 12 finished
Investigation is still going here...
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a whole class of new bugs and potential
bottlenecks could come out of that. Whenever someone touches the
threading model for pgbench it usually gives a stack of build farm
headaches. Better to avoid those unless there's really a compelling
reason to go through that.
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On 6/11/13 12:22 PM, Merlin Moncure wrote:
Personally I think this patch should go in regardless -- the concerns
made IMNSHO are specious.
That's nice, but we have this process for validating whether features go
in or not that relies on review instead of opinions.
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timing.
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for a better patch.
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attachment: tps.pngattachment: latency.pngdiff --git a/contrib/pgbench/pgbench.c b/contrib/pgbench/pgbench.c
index 8c202bf..799dfcd 100644
sites I see wouldn't miss at all. Rather than put work into
autotuning it, I'd be happy to eliminate checkpoint_segments altogther,
in favor of a WAL disk space limit.
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.
I suspect the reason we don't see as many complaints is that a lot more
systems can handle 7.8MB/s of random reads then there are ones that can
do 3.9MB/s of random writes. If we removed that read limit, a lot more
complaints would start rolling in about the read side.
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it directly, but systems with vacuum problems seem
more likely to have noticeable filesystem level fragmentation. I've
been thinking about collecting data from a few systems with filefrag to
see if I'm right about that.
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this discussion has wandered off has nicely confirmed I was
right to try and avoid going into this area again :(
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reproducible test workload that gets slower with large
buffer cache sizes. If anyone has a public test case that gets slower
when shared_buffers goes from 8GB to 16GB, please let me know; I've got
two systems setup I could chase that down on now.
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to grapple with that pair.
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won't have nearly as much work to do in that situation.
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bgwriter-snapshot.xls
Description: MS-Excel spreadsheet
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). At no
point during that fairly difficult but of tuning work did
checkpoint_segments do anything but get in the way.
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are
good I have to assume they're not.
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they are
explicitly validated: http://lwn.net/Articles/350225/
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To make changes to your
that this sort
of API may not work exactly as specified. If you're willing to believe
the spec, that's fine, but I think that's dangerously optimistic.
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On 5/30/13 11:21 AM, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
Greg Smith escribió:
The messy part of extending relations in larger chunks
is how to communicate that back into the buffer manager usefully.
The extension path causing trouble is RelationGetBufferForTuple
calling ReadBufferBI. All of that is passing
repeatable measurements at all. Very
often theories about the fastest way to do something don't match what's
actually seen in testing.
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On 5/28/13 10:00 PM, Jon Nelson wrote:
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
On 5/28/13 11:12 AM, Jon Nelson wrote:
It opens a new file, fallocates 16MB, calls fdatasync.
Outside of the run for performance testing, I think it would be good at this
point
. The work to insert a cost delay point
needs to get done before building more complicated logic on top of it
though, so I'm starting with this part.
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consuming part of this development is inserting all of
the cost delay hooks and validating they work. Exactly what parameters
and logic fires when they are called can easily be refactored later.
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) to eliminate. The
person who runs an exclusive CLUSTER that's limited by
statement_cost_delay may suffer from holding the lock too long. But
that might be their intention with setting the value. Hard to idiot
proof this without eliminating useful options too.
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inversion issues is an interesting idea. It's a bit down the road from
what I'm staring at now though.
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. That's a guess though. I'll have to think about
this more when I circle back toward usability. Thanks for the
implementation idea.
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behavior to work properly strikes me as as a bit of a layering violation
too. I'd like the read and write paths to have a similar API, but here
they don't even operate on the same type of inputs. Addressing that is
probably harder than just throwing a hack on the existing code though.
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