Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
New version: - adds documentation - adds category RESOURCES_DISK temp-files-v2.patch.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:17 PM, Mark Kirkwood mark.kirkw...@catalyst.net.nz wrote: This is WIP, it does seem to work ok, but some areas/choices I'm not entirely clear about are mentioned in the patch itself. Mainly: - name of the guc... better suggestions welcome - datatype for the guc - real would be good, but at the moment the nice parse KB/MB/GB business only works for int Please add this to the next CommitFest: https://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest_view/open With respect to the datatype of the GUC, int seems clearly correct. Why would you want to use a float? -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
Mark, I got to wonder how hard this would be to do in Postgres, and attached is my (WIP) attempt. It provides a guc (max_temp_files_size) to limit the size of all temp files for a backend and amends fd.c cancel execution if the total size of temporary files exceeds this. First, are we just talking about pgsql_tmp here, or the pg_temp tablespace? That is, just sort/hash files, or temporary tables as well? Second, the main issue with these sorts of macro-counters has generally been their locking effect on concurrent activity. Have you been able to run any tests which try to run lots of small externally-sorted queries at once on a multi-core machine, and checked the effect on throughput? -- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://www.pgexperts.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: Second, the main issue with these sorts of macro-counters has generally been their locking effect on concurrent activity. Have you been able to run any tests which try to run lots of small externally-sorted queries at once on a multi-core machine, and checked the effect on throughput? Since it's apparently a per-backend limit, that doesn't seem relevant. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
On 2/18/11 11:44 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: Second, the main issue with these sorts of macro-counters has generally been their locking effect on concurrent activity. Have you been able to run any tests which try to run lots of small externally-sorted queries at once on a multi-core machine, and checked the effect on throughput? Since it's apparently a per-backend limit, that doesn't seem relevant. Oh! I missed that. What good would a per-backend limit do, though? And what happens with queries which exceed the limit? Error message? Wait? -- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://www.pgexperts.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 2/18/11 11:44 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: Second, the main issue with these sorts of macro-counters has generally been their locking effect on concurrent activity. Have you been able to run any tests which try to run lots of small externally-sorted queries at once on a multi-core machine, and checked the effect on throughput? Since it's apparently a per-backend limit, that doesn't seem relevant. Oh! I missed that. What good would a per-backend limit do, though? And what happens with queries which exceed the limit? Error message? Wait? Well I have not RTFP, but I assume it'd throw an error. Waiting isn't going to accomplish anything. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
On 19/02/11 02:34, Robert Haas wrote: Please add this to the next CommitFest: https://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest_view/open With respect to the datatype of the GUC, int seems clearly correct. Why would you want to use a float? Added. With respect to the datatype, using int with KB units means the largest temp size is approx 2047GB - I know that seems like a lot now... but maybe someone out there wants (say) their temp files limited to 4096GB :-) Cheers Mark -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
On 19/02/11 08:48, Josh Berkus wrote: On 2/18/11 11:44 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Josh Berkusj...@agliodbs.com wrote: Second, the main issue with these sorts of macro-counters has generally been their locking effect on concurrent activity. Have you been able to run any tests which try to run lots of small externally-sorted queries at once on a multi-core machine, and checked the effect on throughput? Since it's apparently a per-backend limit, that doesn't seem relevant. Oh! I missed that. What good would a per-backend limit do, though? And what happens with queries which exceed the limit? Error message? Wait? By temp files I mean those in pgsql_tmp. LOL - A backend limit will have the same sort of usefulness as work_mem does - i.e stop a query eating all your filesystem space or bringing a server to its knees with io load. We have had this happen twice - I know of other folks who have too. Obviously you need to do the same sort of arithmetic as you do with work_mem to decide on a reasonable limit to cope with multiple users creating temp files. Conservative dbas might want to set it to (free disk)/max_connections etc. Obviously for ad-hoc systems it is a bit more challenging - but having a per-backend limit is way better than having what we have now, which is ... errr... nothing. As an example I'd find it useful to avoid badly written queries causing too much io load on the db backend of (say) a web system (i.e such a system should not *have* queries that want to use that much resource). To answer the other question, what happens when the limit is exceeded is modeled on statement timeout, i.e query is canceled and a message says why (exceeded temp files size). Cheers Mark -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
Obviously you need to do the same sort of arithmetic as you do with work_mem to decide on a reasonable limit to cope with multiple users creating temp files. Conservative dbas might want to set it to (free disk)/max_connections etc. Obviously for ad-hoc systems it is a bit more challenging - but having a per-backend limit is way better than having what we have now, which is ... errr... nothing. Agreed. To answer the other question, what happens when the limit is exceeded is modeled on statement timeout, i.e query is canceled and a message says why (exceeded temp files size). When does this happen? When you try to allocate the file, or when it does the original tape sort estimate? The disadvantage of the former is that the user waited for minutes in order to have their query cancelled. The disadvantage of the latter is that the estimate isn't remotely accurate. -- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://www.pgexperts.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
Mark Kirkwood mark.kirkw...@catalyst.net.nz writes: Added. With respect to the datatype, using int with KB units means the largest temp size is approx 2047GB - I know that seems like a lot now... but maybe someone out there wants (say) their temp files limited to 4096GB :-) [ shrug... ] Sorry, I can't imagine a use case for this parameter where the value isn't a *lot* less than that. Maybe if it were global, but not if it's per-backend. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
On 19/02/11 10:38, Josh Berkus wrote: To answer the other question, what happens when the limit is exceeded is modeled on statement timeout, i.e query is canceled and a message says why (exceeded temp files size). When does this happen? When you try to allocate the file, or when it does the original tape sort estimate? The disadvantage of the former is that the user waited for minutes in order to have their query cancelled. The disadvantage of the latter is that the estimate isn't remotely accurate. Neither - it checks each write (I think this is pretty cheap - adds two int and double + operations and a /, operation to FileWrite). If the check shows you've written more than the limit, you get canceled. So you can exceed the limit by 1 buffer size. Yeah, the disadvantage is that (like statement timeout) it is a 'bottom of the cliff' type of protection. The advantage is there are no false positives... Cheers Mark -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
Yeah, the disadvantage is that (like statement timeout) it is a 'bottom of the cliff' type of protection. The advantage is there are no false positives... Yeah, just trying to get a handle on the proposed feature. I have no objections; it seems like a harmless limit for most people, and useful to a few. -- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://www.pgexperts.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
On 19/02/11 11:30, Josh Berkus wrote: Yeah, the disadvantage is that (like statement timeout) it is a 'bottom of the cliff' type of protection. The advantage is there are no false positives... Yeah, just trying to get a handle on the proposed feature. I have no objections; it seems like a harmless limit for most people, and useful to a few. No worries and sorry, I should have used the per backend phrase in the title to help clarify what was intended. Cheers Mark
[HACKERS] WIP - Add ability to constrain backend temporary file space
Recently two systems here have suffered severely with excessive temporary file creation during query execution. In one case it could have been avoided by more stringent qa before application code release, whereas the other is an ad-hoc system, and err...yes. In both cases it would have been great to be able to constrain the amount of temporary file space a query could use. In theory you can sort of do this with the various ulimits, but it seems pretty impractical as at that level all files look the same and you'd be just as likely to unexpectedly crippled the entire db a few weeks later when a table grows... I got to wonder how hard this would be to do in Postgres, and attached is my (WIP) attempt. It provides a guc (max_temp_files_size) to limit the size of all temp files for a backend and amends fd.c cancel execution if the total size of temporary files exceeds this. This is WIP, it does seem to work ok, but some areas/choices I'm not entirely clear about are mentioned in the patch itself. Mainly: - name of the guc... better suggestions welcome - datatype for the guc - real would be good, but at the moment the nice parse KB/MB/GB business only works for int regards Mark temp-files-v1.patch.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
