Re: [HACKERS] (download ANSI SQL benchmark?) Re: Postgres article
At 10:58 AM 11/21/00 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: >> The MySQL folk have always cherry-picked their benchmarks, long lied >> about features in PG, do their benchmarking using default values >> for PG's shared buffer etc WITHOUT TELLING PEOPLE while at the same >> time installing MySQL with larger-than-default memory usage limits (the >> group hired by GB used MySQL's default installation, but EXPLICITLY SAID >> SO in the report), etc. > >The revised results that are on GB's site now include curves for MySQL >*with* tuning per advice from the MySQL folk. That's good. Have the MySQL folk made any effort to reciprocate? - Don Baccus, Portland OR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nature photos, on-line guides, Pacific Northwest Rare Bird Alert Service and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net.
[GENERAL] Re: [HACKERS] (download ANSI SQL benchmark?) Re: Postgres article
Don Baccus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Great Bridge didn't do the benchmarking, they hired a third party to > do so. And that third party didn't, AFAIK, cherry-pick tests in order > to "prove" PG's superiority. In fairness, the third party was Xperts Inc, who have long done a lot of programming-related work for Landmark Communications; so there's a pretty close working relationship, it's not exactly arms-length. I think what may be more worth noting is that that benchmarking project was started as part of Landmark's "due diligence" investigation while deciding whether they wanted to bet a company on Postgres. They didn't go into it with the notion of proving Postgres superior; they went into it to find out if they were betting on a dog. They were very pleasantly surprised (as was the core group, when we first saw the results!). Naturally, their marketing guys said "hey, let's clean this up and publish it". There's a certain amount of after-the-fact selection here, since you'd certainly never have seen the results if they hadn't been favorable to Postgres; but there was no attempt to skew the results in Postgres' favor. If anything, the opposite. > The MySQL folk have always cherry-picked their benchmarks, long lied > about features in PG, do their benchmarking using default values > for PG's shared buffer etc WITHOUT TELLING PEOPLE while at the same > time installing MySQL with larger-than-default memory usage limits (the > group hired by GB used MySQL's default installation, but EXPLICITLY SAID > SO in the report), etc. The revised results that are on GB's site now include curves for MySQL *with* tuning per advice from the MySQL folk. regards, tom lane
[GENERAL] Re: [HACKERS] (download ANSI SQL benchmark?) Re: Postgres article
Pete Forman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I thought that Great Bridge's August benchmarks were rather skewed. > They only used one particular test from the AS3AP suite. AFAIK there was nothing particularly sinister about that --- they didn't have time to run a large number of different tests, so they chose ones that seemed most important. They certainly didn't try a bunch of tests and then publish only the most favorable; the two tests used were selected at the beginning of the project, before anyone knew what the results would look like. regards, tom lane
Re: [HACKERS] (download ANSI SQL benchmark?) Re: Postgres article
At 10:19 AM 11/21/00 +, Pete Forman wrote: >Don Baccus writes: > > I also hope that the PG crew, and Great Bridge, never stoop so low > > as to ship benchmarks wired to "prove" PG's superiority. > >I thought that Great Bridge's August benchmarks were rather skewed. >They only used one particular test from the AS3AP suite. That was the >basis for their headline figure of 4-5 times the performance of the >competition. > >I was however impressed by the TPC-C results. MySQL and Interbase >were unable to complete them. PostgreSQL showed almost identical >performance over a range of loads to Proprietary 1 (version 8.1.5, on >Linux) and Proprietary 2 (version 7.0, on NT). Great Bridge didn't do the benchmarking, they hired a third party to do so. And that third party didn't, AFAIK, cherry-pick tests in order to "prove" PG's superiority. The report itself mentioned the testing group's surprise over MySQL's poor showing in the simple, non-TPC-C test. I'm sure it was tossed in so they could answer the question "how much does it cost you to use a transaction-based system rather than MySQL", since avoiding that overhead is the big argument that the MySQL makes in favor of their product. I'm sure the hope was there that the answer would be "not all that much", instead the answer was "gee, you're not that fast after all". Clearly the real target of the benchmark effort was Oracle. However inadequate the benchmarking effort might've been (they're all inadequate, after all) the fact is that Great Bridge at least did run a set of standard benchmarks. The MySQL folk have always cherry-picked their benchmarks, long lied about features in PG, do their benchmarking using default values for PG's shared buffer etc WITHOUT TELLING PEOPLE while at the same time installing MySQL with larger-than-default memory usage limits (the group hired by GB used MySQL's default installation, but EXPLICITLY SAID SO in the report), etc. The GB-financed benchmarks weren't perfect, but they weren't dishonest. The MySQL folks have done things over the years that have been out-and-out dishonest, IMO. - Don Baccus, Portland OR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nature photos, on-line guides, Pacific Northwest Rare Bird Alert Service and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net.
Re: [HACKERS] (download ANSI SQL benchmark?) Re: Postgres article
Don Baccus writes: > I also hope that the PG crew, and Great Bridge, never stoop so low > as to ship benchmarks wired to "prove" PG's superiority. I thought that Great Bridge's August benchmarks were rather skewed. They only used one particular test from the AS3AP suite. That was the basis for their headline figure of 4-5 times the performance of the competition. I was however impressed by the TPC-C results. MySQL and Interbase were unable to complete them. PostgreSQL showed almost identical performance over a range of loads to Proprietary 1 (version 8.1.5, on Linux) and Proprietary 2 (version 7.0, on NT). -- Pete Forman -./\.- Disclaimer: This post is originated Western Geophysical -./\.- by myself and does not represent [EMAIL PROTECTED] -./\.- the opinion of Baker Hughes or http://www.crosswinds.net/~petef -./\.- its divisions.
Re: [HACKERS] (download ANSI SQL benchmark?) Re: Postgres article
At 10:24 AM 11/13/00 -0800, Limin Liu wrote: This's great. I have tested Postgres and MySQL with the benchmark shipped with mysql and (of course) MySQL out perform Postgres. So how many simultaneous read/write processes does the MySQL benchmark fire up? Why test a benchmark provided by the mysql folk? That's like trying the benchmark provided by Intel for the initial Pentium 4 announcement and ignoring all the benchmarks they didn't provide you because AMD thunderbird+DDR (AMD 760 chipset) kicks P4 butt on many of them. I should hope you're not so naive as to suppose that the MySQL folk would ship a benchmark showing better performance by PG (or Oracle, or Sybase etc)? I also hope that the PG crew, and Great Bridge, never stoop so low as to ship benchmarks wired to "prove" PG's superiority. They MySQL folk have been liars and cheaters for years, there's no reason to put any faith into their benchmark efforts. - Don Baccus, Portland OR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nature photos, on-line guides, Pacific Northwest Rare Bird Alert Service and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net.
[HACKERS] (download ANSI SQL benchmark?) Re: Postgres article
This's great. I have tested Postgres and MySQL with the benchmark shipped with mysql and (of course) MySQL out perform Postgres. I wonder does anyone know where can we download the ANSI SQL benchmark (AN3AP) suite? I'd like to run this benchmark test myself, since this is the only benchmark I have read so far that Postgres out perform MySQL. Thanx in advance. > > Did someone read bout this? > > http://www.angelfire.com/nv/aldev/pgsql/GreatBridge.html > -- Limin Liu
