Re: [GENERAL] [HACKERS] [Fwd: AW: More UB-Tree patent information]
Hannu Krosing wrote: Have you found out _what_ exaclty is patented ? Is it just his concrete implementation of UB-Tree or something broader, like using one multi-dimensional index instead of multiple one-dimensional ones ? (I know it is OT, please reply in private, I can summarize any reactions to the list ...) Patents are supposed to be only applicable to an industrial application (with external side-effects). So ideas in themselves are not patentable. Anyway, this is once more a good example of the danger of software patents - you know what to reply when people say software patents promote innovation IANAL, just my 0,02 Euro. see also : http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/savingeurope.html (also interesting for non-europeans, of course !) -- Tycho Fruru [EMAIL PROTECTED] Prediction is extremely difficult. Especially about the future. - Niels Bohr ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [GENERAL] [HACKERS] [Fwd: AW: More UB-Tree patent information]
I while ago I used xbase2pg and pg2xbase. You should be able to find it on the net. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hannu Krosing wrote: Have you found out _what_ exaclty is patented ? Is it just his concrete implementation of UB-Tree or something broader, like using one multi-dimensional index instead of multiple one-dimensional ones ? (I know it is OT, please reply in private, I can summarize any reactions to the list ...) Patents are supposed to be only applicable to an industrial application (with external side-effects). So ideas in themselves are not patentable. Anyway, this is once more a good example of the danger of software patents - you know what to reply when people say software patents promote innovation IANAL, just my 0,02 Euro. see also : http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/savingeurope.html (also interesting for non-europeans, of course !) -- Tycho Fruru [EMAIL PROTECTED] Prediction is extremely difficult. Especially about the future. - Niels Bohr ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [GENERAL] [HACKERS] [Fwd: AW: More UB-Tree patent information]
Hannu Krosing wrote: Have you found out _what_ exaclty is patented ? Is it just his concrete implementation of UB-Tree or something broader, like using one multi-dimensional index instead of multiple one-dimensional ones ? (I know it is OT, please reply in private, I can summarize any reactions to the list ...) Patents are supposed to be only applicable to an industrial application (with external side-effects). So ideas in themselves are not patentable. Anyway, this is once more a good example of the danger of software patents - you know what to reply when people say software patents promote innovation IANAL, just my 0,02 Euro. see also : http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/savingeurope.html (also interesting for non-europeans, of course !) -- Tycho Fruru [EMAIL PROTECTED] Prediction is extremely difficult. Especially about the future. - Niels Bohr ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [Fwd: AW: More UB-Tree patent information]
Patents are as much designed to confuse and dissuade someone from using something as they are to patent something. Reading a patent is often harder than killing the nearest chicken, strewing it's entrails allover the yard, and then trying to make some sense of it. Justin Clift wrote: Hannu Krosing wrote: On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 16:32, Justin Clift wrote: Hi everyone, This is Prof. Bayer's response to the question is it alright to use UB-Tree's in Open Source projects?. Have you found out _what_ exaclty is patented ? Is it just his concrete implementation of UB-Tree or something broader, like using one multi-dimensional index instead of multiple one-dimensional ones ? Is there any way of finding out instead of asking him directly? Maybe the patent places have online info? Professor Bayer isn't being overly informative. Anyone know? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift - Hannu ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] [Fwd: AW: More UB-Tree patent information]
On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 21:55, Justin Clift wrote: Hannu Krosing wrote: On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 16:32, Justin Clift wrote: Hi everyone, This is Prof. Bayer's response to the question is it alright to use UB-Tree's in Open Source projects?. Have you found out _what_ exaclty is patented ? Is it just his concrete implementation of UB-Tree or something broader, like using one multi-dimensional index instead of multiple one-dimensional ones ? Is there any way of finding out instead of asking him directly? Maybe the patent places have online info? I did a quick search at USPTO at http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-bool.html on UB and Tree and index and database and found among other things a US patent no. 5,826,253 on mechanism very similar to LISTEN/NOTIFY, afforded to Borland on October 20, 1998 based on application from April 19, 1996. We should be safe as already Postgres95 had them ;) when I searched for UB and Tree and index and database and Bayer 0 results came back. when I omitted UB and searched for Tree and index and database and Bayer I got 27 results, first of them on Method and composition for improving sexual fitness ;) the one possibly related related to our Bayer was nr 6,219,662 on Supporting database indexes based on a generalized B-tree index which had reference to : Rudolf Bayer, The Universal B-Tree for Multidimensional Indexing: General Concepts, Worldwide Computing and Its Applications, International Conference, WWCA '97, Tsukuba, Japan, (Mar. 1997), pp. 198-209. and German patent 0 650 131 A1 which may be also relevant -- Hannu ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] [Fwd: AW: More UB-Tree patent information]
Hi everyone, This is Prof. Bayer's response to the question is it alright to use UB-Tree's in Open Source projects?. It's a No, but we can discuss a licensing model type answer. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Original Message Subject: AW: More UB-Tree patent information Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:26:05 +0200 From: Prof. Rudolf Bayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Justin Clift [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Justin, I am personally holder of the patents. concerning your question: Specifically wondering if it's alright to use UB-Tree's in Open Source projects. the answer is NO, unless there is a patent agreement with me. Please let me know, what specifically the interests and business models are, then we could discuss a licensing model in line with the already existing license agreements, best regards, R. Bayer * Prof. Rudolf Bayer, Ph.D. Institut fuer Informatik, Technische Universitaet Muenchen Orleansstr. 34, D-81667 Muenchen, Germany tel: ++49-89-48095 171 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] fax: ++49-89-48095 170 http://www3.informatik.tu-muenchen.de -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: Justin Clift [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. April 2002 23:04 An: Professor Rudolf Bayer Cc: PostgreSQL General Mailing List Betreff: More UB-Tree patent information Hi Prof. Bayer, Haven't heard anything back from you regarding the patents on UB-Tree's. Specifically wondering if it's alright to use UB-Tree's in Open Source projects. On a related topic, in your paper The Universal B-Tree for multidimensional Indexing (http://mistral.in.tum.de/results/publications/TUM-I9637.pdf) you mention a German Patent Pending number of 196 35 429.3, is this the one which was approved in Europe? In the paper Bulk Loading a Data Warehouse built upon a UB-Tree (http://mistral.in.tum.de/results/publications/FKM+00.pdf) it mentions the Japanese Patent filed on 22nd May 2000, Application Number 2000-149648. Is this the Japanese patent for UB-Trees which hasn't yet been approved? :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [Fwd: AW: More UB-Tree patent information]
On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 16:32, Justin Clift wrote: Hi everyone, This is Prof. Bayer's response to the question is it alright to use UB-Tree's in Open Source projects?. Have you found out _what_ exaclty is patented ? Is it just his concrete implementation of UB-Tree or something broader, like using one multi-dimensional index instead of multiple one-dimensional ones ? - Hannu ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [Fwd: AW: More UB-Tree patent information]
Hannu Krosing wrote: On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 16:32, Justin Clift wrote: Hi everyone, This is Prof. Bayer's response to the question is it alright to use UB-Tree's in Open Source projects?. Have you found out _what_ exaclty is patented ? Is it just his concrete implementation of UB-Tree or something broader, like using one multi-dimensional index instead of multiple one-dimensional ones ? Is there any way of finding out instead of asking him directly? Maybe the patent places have online info? Professor Bayer isn't being overly informative. Anyone know? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift - Hannu -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
