Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2014-01-02 Thread Robert Haas
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 2013-12-22 20:45:02 -0500, Robert Haas wrote: I suspect we ought to extend this to rewriting variants of ALTER TABLE as well, but a little thought is needed there. ATRewriteTables() appears to just call

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-12-23 Thread Andres Freund
On 2013-12-22 20:45:02 -0500, Robert Haas wrote: I suspect we ought to extend this to rewriting variants of ALTER TABLE as well, but a little thought is needed there. ATRewriteTables() appears to just call heap_insert() for each updated row, which if I'm not mistaken is an MVCC violation -

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-12-22 Thread Robert Haas
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote: On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 18:24 +0100, Andres Freund wrote: On 2013-11-19 12:23:30 -0500, Robert Haas wrote: On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Yes, we probably should make a

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-12-08 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 18:24 +0100, Andres Freund wrote: On 2013-11-19 12:23:30 -0500, Robert Haas wrote: On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Yes, we probably should make a decision, unless Robert's idea can be implemented. We have to balance

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-20 Thread David Rowley
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:35 PM, David Rowley dgrowle...@gmail.com wrote: I think that the patch should include some sort of notes in the documents to say that cluster performs freezing of tuples. I've attached a patch which adds something there, but I'm not 100% sure it is the right thing.

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-19 Thread David Rowley
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Thomas Munro mu...@ip9.org wrote: On 25 October 2013 01:17, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 10/24/2013 04:55 PM, Robert Haas wrote: I wonder if we should go so far as to make this the default behavior, instead of just making it an option. +1 from

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-19 Thread Robert Haas
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Yes, we probably should make a decision, unless Robert's idea can be implemented. We have to balance the ease of debugging MVCC failures with the interface we give to the user community. Imo that patch really

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-19 Thread Andres Freund
On 2013-11-19 12:23:30 -0500, Robert Haas wrote: On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Yes, we probably should make a decision, unless Robert's idea can be implemented. We have to balance the ease of debugging MVCC failures with the interface we

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-18 Thread David Rowley
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 3:32 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.comwrote: On 2013-10-25 09:26:29 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: In any case, it's very far from obvious to me that CLUSTER ought to throw away information by default, which is what you're proposing. I find it odd to referring

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-18 Thread Bruce Momjian
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 09:22:58PM +1300, David Rowley wrote: So now I'm wondering what the next move should be for this patch? a. Are we waiting on Robert's patch to be committed before we can apply Thomas's cluster with freeze as default? b. Are we waiting on me reviewing one or both of

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-18 Thread Andres Freund
On 2013-11-18 11:39:44 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 09:22:58PM +1300, David Rowley wrote: So now I'm wondering what the next move should be for this patch? a. Are we waiting on Robert's patch to be committed before we can apply Thomas's cluster with freeze as

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-18 Thread Josh Berkus
On 11/18/2013 08:39 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote: If we do add FREEZE, all we would be doing is delaying the time when all CLUSTER operations will use FREEZE, and hence debugging will be just as difficult. My point is that will full knowledge, everyone would use FREEZE unless they expect MVCC

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-11-18 Thread Kevin Grittner
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 11/18/2013 08:39 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote: If we do add FREEZE, all we would be doing is delaying the time when all CLUSTER operations will use FREEZE, and hence debugging will be just as difficult.  My point is that will full knowledge, everyone would

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-29 Thread Andres Freund
On 2013-10-25 09:26:29 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: In any case, it's very far from obvious to me that CLUSTER ought to throw away information by default, which is what you're proposing. I find it odd to referring to this as throwing away information. I know that you have a general concern

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-29 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 2013-10-25 09:26:29 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: In any case, it's very far from obvious to me that CLUSTER ought to throw away information by default, which is what you're proposing. I find it odd to referring to

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-29 Thread Andres Freund
On 2013-10-29 11:29:24 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 2013-10-25 09:26:29 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: In any case, it's very far from obvious to me that CLUSTER ought to throw away information by default, which is

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-29 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 2013-10-29 11:29:24 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 2013-10-25 09:26:29 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: In any case, it's very far from

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-27 Thread Craig Ringer
On 10/26/2013 01:20 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: On 10/24/2013 07:19 PM, Tom Lane wrote: In any case, it's very far from obvious to me that CLUSTER ought to throw away information by default, which is what you're proposing. The problem here is that you're thinking of the 1/10 of 1% of our users

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-25 Thread Andres Freund
On 2013-10-24 17:17:22 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: On 10/24/2013 04:55 PM, Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 10/23/2013 09:58 PM, Amit Kapila wrote: I wonder why anyone would like to freeze during CLUSTER command when they already

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-25 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 2:12 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 2013-10-24 17:17:22 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: On 10/24/2013 04:55 PM, Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 10/23/2013 09:58 PM, Amit Kapila wrote: I wonder

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-25 Thread Andres Freund
On 2013-10-25 09:13:20 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 2:12 AM, Andres Freund and...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 2013-10-24 17:17:22 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: On 10/24/2013 04:55 PM, Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote:

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-25 Thread Robert Haas
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: I wonder if we should go so far as to make this the default behavior, instead of just making it an option. In that case you'd have to invent a NOFREEZE keyword, no? Ick. Only if we

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-25 Thread Josh Berkus
On 10/24/2013 07:19 PM, Tom Lane wrote: In any case, it's very far from obvious to me that CLUSTER ought to throw away information by default, which is what you're proposing. The problem here is that you're thinking of the 1/10 of 1% of our users who have a serious PostgreSQL failure and post

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-25 Thread Thomas Munro
On 25 October 2013 01:17, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 10/24/2013 04:55 PM, Robert Haas wrote: I wonder if we should go so far as to make this the default behavior, instead of just making it an option. +1 from me. Can you think of a reason you *wouldn't* want to freeze? Ok, I

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Thom Brown
On 24 October 2013 05:58, Amit Kapila amit.kapil...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Thomas Munro mu...@ip9.org wrote: Hi I noticed that CLUSTER doesn't have a FREEZE option. Here is a patch to add that, for consistency with VACUUM. Is it useful? I wonder why anyone would

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Andres Freund
Hi, On 2013-10-24 00:28:44 +0100, Thomas Munro wrote: I noticed that CLUSTER doesn't have a FREEZE option. Here is a patch to add that, for consistency with VACUUM. Is it useful? I think you'd need to prevent that form from working on system catalogs - xmin has a meaning there sometimes

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread k...@rice.edu
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:28:43AM +0530, Amit Kapila wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Thomas Munro mu...@ip9.org wrote: Hi I noticed that CLUSTER doesn't have a FREEZE option. Here is a patch to add that, for consistency with VACUUM. Is it useful? I wonder why anyone would like

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Josh Berkus
On 10/23/2013 09:58 PM, Amit Kapila wrote: I wonder why anyone would like to freeze during CLUSTER command when they already have separate way (VACUUM FREEZE) to achieve it, do you know or can think of any case where user wants to do it along with Cluster command? If I'm rewriting the table

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Thomas Munro
On 24 October 2013 05:58, Amit Kapila amit.kapil...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Thomas Munro mu...@ip9.org wrote: Hi I noticed that CLUSTER doesn't have a FREEZE option. Here is a patch to add that, for consistency with VACUUM. Is it useful? I wonder why anyone

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Robert Haas
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 10/23/2013 09:58 PM, Amit Kapila wrote: I wonder why anyone would like to freeze during CLUSTER command when they already have separate way (VACUUM FREEZE) to achieve it, do you know or can think of any case where user

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Josh Berkus
On 10/24/2013 04:55 PM, Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 10/23/2013 09:58 PM, Amit Kapila wrote: I wonder why anyone would like to freeze during CLUSTER command when they already have separate way (VACUUM FREEZE) to achieve it, do you

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: I wonder if we should go so far as to make this the default behavior, instead of just making it an option. In that case you'd have to invent a NOFREEZE keyword, no? Ick. In any case, it's very far from obvious to me that CLUSTER ought to throw away

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Amit Kapila
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 10/23/2013 09:58 PM, Amit Kapila wrote: I wonder why anyone would like to freeze during CLUSTER command when they already have separate way (VACUUM FREEZE) to achieve it, do you know or can think of any case where user

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-24 Thread Amit Kapila
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:29 AM, Thomas Munro mu...@ip9.org wrote: On 24 October 2013 05:58, Amit Kapila amit.kapil...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Thomas Munro mu...@ip9.org wrote: Hi I noticed that CLUSTER doesn't have a FREEZE option. Here is a patch to add

[HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-23 Thread Thomas Munro
Hi I noticed that CLUSTER doesn't have a FREEZE option. Here is a patch to add that, for consistency with VACUUM. Is it useful? Thanks Thomas Munro cluster-freeze.patch Description: Binary data -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER FREEZE

2013-10-23 Thread Amit Kapila
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Thomas Munro mu...@ip9.org wrote: Hi I noticed that CLUSTER doesn't have a FREEZE option. Here is a patch to add that, for consistency with VACUUM. Is it useful? I wonder why anyone would like to freeze during CLUSTER command when they already have separate