[HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
Hi, Pgsql-hackers. We would like to obtain your opinion on these two questions: 1) We wanna append possibilities into Postgres engine, and wanna get top estimation for size of code, cost and time of implementation. 1.1) We divide possibilities to elementary features, find analogues in already written code, and suppose e.g., that quantity of lines for 'create timer' will be similar to 'create function', and that implementation for 'create timer' is easy than implementation of 'create function' (because it already has prototype in 'create function', and coping source code is possiblle) 1.2) We calculate cost and time by COCOMO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocomo How relevant is this estimation ? 2) We are captivated by price of Indians, we listened much about low quality of code, written by Indians, we are fearing, that American company will resale implementation to Indian subcontractor (i.e. real developers will be Indians anyway). What requirements should satisfy code, written by Indians, to be in next version of Postgres ? Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
[HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
Hi, Pgsql-hackers. We would like to obtain your opinion on these two questions: 1) We wanna append possibilities into Postgres engine, and wanna get top estimation for size of code, cost and time of implementation. 1.1) We divide possibilities to elementary features, find analogues in already written code, and suppose e.g., that quantity of lines for 'create timer' will be similar to 'create function', and that implementation for 'create timer' is easy than implementation of 'create function' (because it already has prototype in 'create function', and coping source code is possiblle) 1.2) We calculate cost and time by COCOMO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocomo How relevant is this estimation ? 2) We are captivated by price of Indians, we listened much about low quality of code, written by Indians, we are fearing, that American company will resale implementation to Indian subcontractor (i.e. real developers will be Indians anyway). What requirements should satisfy code, written by Indians, to be in next version of Postgres ? Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:43 AM, Dmitry Turin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We would like to obtain your opinion on these two questions: This is the wrong place to do it. 2) We are captivated by price of Indians, we listened much about low quality of code, written by Indians, we are fearing, that American company will resale implementation to Indian subcontractor (i.e. real developers will be Indians anyway). Did you really just say that? (SQL50, HTML60) Because it seems that you haven't got the hint yet, I'll just say it frankly: No one really cares about your desired additions to Postgres. -Jonah -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Dmitry Turin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Pgsql-hackers. We would like to obtain your opinion on these two questions: 1) We wanna append possibilities into Postgres engine, and wanna get top estimation for size of code, cost and time of implementation. 1.1) We divide possibilities to elementary features, find analogues in already written code, and suppose e.g., that quantity of lines for 'create timer' will be similar to 'create function', and that implementation for 'create timer' is easy than implementation of 'create function' (because it already has prototype in 'create function', and coping source code is possiblle) 1.2) We calculate cost and time by COCOMO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocomo How relevant is this estimation ? 2) We are captivated by price of Indians, we listened much about low quality of code, written by Indians, How do you identify that the code written by Indians is low in quality ? Do you subcontracted to an Indian company or so ? we are fearing, that American company will resale implementation to Indian subcontractor (i.e. real developers will be Indians anyway). What requirements should satisfy code, written by Indians, to be in next version of Postgres ? Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
Do we really need this kind of discussion here? On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Sreejesh O S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Dmitry Turin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Pgsql-hackers. We would like to obtain your opinion on these two questions: 1) We wanna append possibilities into Postgres engine, and wanna get top estimation for size of code, cost and time of implementation. 1.1) We divide possibilities to elementary features, find analogues in already written code, and suppose e.g., that quantity of lines for 'create timer' will be similar to 'create function', and that implementation for 'create timer' is easy than implementation of 'create function' (because it already has prototype in 'create function', and coping source code is possiblle) 1.2) We calculate cost and time by COCOMO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocomo How relevant is this estimation ? 2) We are captivated by price of Indians, we listened much about low quality of code, written by Indians, How do you identify that the code written by Indians is low in quality ? Do you subcontracted to an Indian company or so ? we are fearing, that American company will resale implementation to Indian subcontractor (i.e. real developers will be Indians anyway). What requirements should satisfy code, written by Indians, to be in next version of Postgres ? Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers -- Ibrar Ahmed EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Ibrar Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do we really need this kind of discussion here? Dont know. But the post would have contained more specific matters. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Sreejesh O S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Dmitry Turin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Pgsql-hackers. We would like to obtain your opinion on these two questions: 1) We wanna append possibilities into Postgres engine, and wanna get top estimation for size of code, cost and time of implementation. 1.1) We divide possibilities to elementary features, find analogues in already written code, and suppose e.g., that quantity of lines for 'create timer' will be similar to 'create function', and that implementation for 'create timer' is easy than implementation of 'create function' (because it already has prototype in 'create function', and coping source code is possiblle) 1.2) We calculate cost and time by COCOMO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocomo How relevant is this estimation ? 2) We are captivated by price of Indians, we listened much about low quality of code, written by Indians, How do you identify that the code written by Indians is low in quality ? Do you subcontracted to an Indian company or so ? we are fearing, that American company will resale implementation to Indian subcontractor (i.e. real developers will be Indians anyway). What requirements should satisfy code, written by Indians, to be in next version of Postgres ? Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers -- Ibrar Ahmed EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
Hi, Jonah and Ibrar. This is the wrong place to do it. Seggest other place. 2) We are captivated by price of Indians, we listened much about low quality of code, written by Indians, we are fearing, that American company will resale implementation to Indian subcontractor (i.e. real developers will be Indians anyway). Did you really just say that? My letters are perlustrated by bank security command (team). it seems that you haven't got the hint yet Already done. Current results is the following: A1) cost in US is above cost in India in 3 time (i.e. coefficient is 3), coefficient was obtained as expert estimation independently (of digits below). A2) avarage in India is nearly 50 000$, avarage in US is nearly 150 000$. Much dispersion (range) of prices (dispersion for India is bigger). Both country informs, that cost in Europe is above cost in US. A3) Contributor from Pg informs, that cost is 50 000 euro, i.e. 75 000$. We interpret in following way: B1) We can pack into 75 000, if we will seach developers enough long time, we can get developers just now, if we pay twice (i.e. 75*2=150) B2) therefore cost in India is increased twice, i.e. actual cost is 25 000 B3) We have no reasons to believe US, probably real developers will be in India Do we really need this kind of discussion here? Bosses do not like dispersion. Besides this, 50 000 itself seems very much for India to be math expectation. Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
This is the wrong place to do it. Seggest other place. No. This topic is off-topic for the mailing list. When someone brings up an issue that is off-topic, it is not our job to find them another place to discuss it. ...Robert -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
Hi, Robert. This is the wrong place to do it. Seggest other place. This topic is off-topic for the mailing list. I feel strong desire to recall you, that Pg has no concreate instructions till now how to hire for appending features into engine. And of cource, there is no usefull recomendations to orientate on market. P.S. I agree to continue discussion about features of site only in other mailing list, if you just want. Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
Hello Dmitry, you are really on wrong place. You have to accept, so your proposals are not interesting for this community. Because PostgreSQL is under BSD licence, you can do own project based on PostgreSQL source code. There you can test all your ideas - it should not be first similar project - but you cannot expect so you will get some active programmers here - first you have to show some real product, real project, and then you can expect some interest. Without it, nobody will be respect you and accept your proposals. Regards Pavel Stehule 2008/12/11 Dmitry Turin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Jonah and Ibrar. This is the wrong place to do it. Seggest other place. 2) We are captivated by price of Indians, we listened much about low quality of code, written by Indians, we are fearing, that American company will resale implementation to Indian subcontractor (i.e. real developers will be Indians anyway). Did you really just say that? My letters are perlustrated by bank security command (team). it seems that you haven't got the hint yet Already done. Current results is the following: A1) cost in US is above cost in India in 3 time (i.e. coefficient is 3), coefficient was obtained as expert estimation independently (of digits below). A2) avarage in India is nearly 50 000$, avarage in US is nearly 150 000$. Much dispersion (range) of prices (dispersion for India is bigger). Both country informs, that cost in Europe is above cost in US. A3) Contributor from Pg informs, that cost is 50 000 euro, i.e. 75 000$. We interpret in following way: B1) We can pack into 75 000, if we will seach developers enough long time, we can get developers just now, if we pay twice (i.e. 75*2=150) B2) therefore cost in India is increased twice, i.e. actual cost is 25 000 B3) We have no reasons to believe US, probably real developers will be in India Do we really need this kind of discussion here? Bosses do not like dispersion. Besides this, 50 000 itself seems very much for India to be math expectation. Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
Hi, Pavel. you have to show some real product, real project Money will not be confirmed, until size of it will be known. No IT solution can be confirmed or not, but business solution. Budget for implementation is part of business solution. Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
2008/12/11 Dmitry Turin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Pavel. you have to show some real product, real project Money will not be confirmed, until size of it will be known. No IT solution can be confirmed or not, but business solution. Budget for implementation is part of business solution. I though some different, First you have to show real code, some working prototype. And if you really would to collaborate with as, you have to accept so: develop process is based on smaller proposals, every proposal is discussed and have to be accepted. If nobody discuss with you, it's signal, so there isn't real interest. So you have to open own open source project. Pavel Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
Hi, Pavel. Money will not be confirmed, until size of it will be known. I though some different, First you have to show real code show read code before hiring develop process is based I'm not intersting process of development in pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org now - i'm interesting method to estimate lines and time. If you don't like my proposals, you can imply other proposals behind. I assume, PMs can be not here (in list), as well as (nominal) PMs here can not use methods and work at random. Let's leave my SQL5, and come back to topic: 1.1) We divide possibilities to elementary features, find analogues in already written code, and suppose e.g., that quantity of lines for 'create timer' will be similar to 'create function', and that implementation for 'create timer' is easy than implementation of 'create function' (because it already has prototype in 'create function', and coping source code is possiblle) 1.2) We calculate cost and time by COCOMO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocomo How relevant is this estimation ? Dmitry (SQL50, HTML60) -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 15:20 +0200, Dmitry Turin wrote: Hi, Pavel. you have to show some real product, real project Money will not be confirmed, until size of it will be known. No IT solution can be confirmed or not, but business solution. Budget for implementation is part of business solution. Pavel, you are most likely talking to a robot. I suspect that somebody is trying a Turing test on us :P - Hannu -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
2008/12/11 Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 15:20 +0200, Dmitry Turin wrote: Hi, Pavel. you have to show some real product, real project Money will not be confirmed, until size of it will be known. No IT solution can be confirmed or not, but business solution. Budget for implementation is part of business solution. Pavel, you are most likely talking to a robot. I suspect that somebody is trying a Turing test on us :P please, ask Zdenek about my identity :) My English is terrible. I forgot an base from school, and now, all my reading is c source codes only. Next year will be lot of free time, so I hope so my English will be better. It's terrible when I have to explain some. But on basic school I had to learn Russian (a in this time nobody likes Russian - so my language skills are bad). Pavel - Hannu -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
2008/12/11 Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 15:20 +0200, Dmitry Turin wrote: Hi, Pavel. you have to show some real product, real project Money will not be confirmed, until size of it will be known. No IT solution can be confirmed or not, but business solution. Budget for implementation is part of business solution. Pavel, you are most likely talking to a robot. I suspect that somebody is trying a Turing test on us :P please, ask Zdenek about my identity :) My English is terrible. I forgot an base from school, and now, all my reading is c source codes only. Next year will be lot of free time, so I hope so my English will be better. It's terrible when I have to explain some. But on basic school I had to learn Russian (a in this time nobody likes Russian - so my language skills are bad). Pavel - Hannu -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 16:48 +0100, Pavel Stehule wrote: 2008/12/11 Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 15:20 +0200, Dmitry Turin wrote: Hi, Pavel. you have to show some real product, real project Money will not be confirmed, until size of it will be known. No IT solution can be confirmed or not, but business solution. Budget for implementation is part of business solution. Pavel, you are most likely talking to a robot. I suspect that somebody is trying a Turing test on us :P please, ask Zdenek about my identity :) Actually I was thinking that Turin is a clever name for a Turing test machine . My English is terrible. I forgot an base from school, and now, all my reading is c source codes only. Next year will be lot of free time, so I hope so my English will be better. It's terrible when I have to explain some. But on basic school I had to learn Russian (a in this time nobody likes Russian - so my language skills are bad). -- Hannu -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] COCOMO Indians
2008/12/11 Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 16:48 +0100, Pavel Stehule wrote: 2008/12/11 Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 15:20 +0200, Dmitry Turin wrote: Hi, Pavel. you have to show some real product, real project Money will not be confirmed, until size of it will be known. No IT solution can be confirmed or not, but business solution. Budget for implementation is part of business solution. Pavel, you are most likely talking to a robot. I suspect that somebody is trying a Turing test on us :P please, ask Zdenek about my identity :) Actually I was thinking that Turin is a clever name for a Turing test machine . oh, I pass to. :) or some assertive man My English is terrible. I forgot an base from school, and now, all my reading is c source codes only. Next year will be lot of free time, so I hope so my English will be better. It's terrible when I have to explain some. But on basic school I had to learn Russian (a in this time nobody likes Russian - so my language skills are bad). -- Hannu -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
