Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-04 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Greg Stark st...@mit.edu wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:19 AM, Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org wrote: then, we're talking about making parts of the filesystem world-writeable so it doesn't even matter if the user is running as an admin for a trojan or some other

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-04 Thread Jay Levitt
Dave Page wrote: Exactly - which is why I was objecting to recommending a distribution of PostgreSQL that came in a packaging system that we were told changed /usr/local to be world writeable to avoid the use/annoyance of the standard security measures on the platform. We... that's not

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Robert Haas
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org wrote: If homebrew intentionally creates a hole like that, then for as long as I'm one of the PostgreSQL webmasters it will *never* be listed on our download pages. I think that's a bit harsh. It's not as if the PostgreSQL package

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Christopher Browne
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org wrote: If homebrew intentionally creates a hole like that, then for as long as I'm one of the PostgreSQL webmasters it will *never* be listed on our download

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Christopher Browne cbbro...@gmail.com wrote: It's pretty typical for MacOS applications to require enter your password; I need to su to root to install this! in plenty of places where the UI does not actually tell you what is being done as root. After enough

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Jay Levitt
Robert Haas wrote: On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Dave Pagedp...@pgadmin.org wrote: If homebrew intentionally creates a hole like that, then for as long as I'm one of the PostgreSQL webmasters it will *never* be listed on our download pages. I think that's a bit harsh. It's not as if the

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Greg Smith
On 04/01/2012 04:19 PM, Jay Levitt wrote: POSSIBLE OBJECTIONS/PREREQUISITES 10. There is no homebrew support for multiple versions, and no current plans to add it (though it's on the wishlist). This means homebrew is only useful if I want to install a PostgreSQL thingie is the common Mac use

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Josh Berkus
On 4/3/12 5:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org wrote: If homebrew intentionally creates a hole like that, then for as long as I'm one of the PostgreSQL webmasters it will *never* be listed on our download pages. I don't agree. Listed with a

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote: On 4/3/12 5:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org wrote: If homebrew intentionally creates a hole like that, then for as long as I'm one of the PostgreSQL webmasters it will

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: --Documentation Homebrew will have to become more complicated if it's going to try and wander down this path.  With complexity and backward compatibility come increased needs for documentation. One more to add: --QA

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-03 Thread Greg Stark
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:19 AM, Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org wrote: then, we're talking about making parts of the filesystem world-writeable so it doesn't even matter if the user is running as an admin for a trojan or some other nasty to attack the system. The argument is that a trojan or other

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-02 Thread Dave Page
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Jay Levitt jay.lev...@gmail.com wrote: At this point I agree with you, but I'm still going to go into detail, because I think there are two markets for Postgres, and the database community has been so focused around enterprise for so long that you're missing

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-02 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 04/02/2012 05:23 AM, Dave Page wrote: There are hundreds of thousands of pieces of malware for Windows that relied on the ability to write to system directories like this to do their misdeeds. Anywhere they can write (or modify existing) software that may get executed at boot time or by an

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-02 Thread Jay Levitt
Dave Page wrote: On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Jay Levittjay.lev...@gmail.com wrote: Just as an FYI, a large percentage of the PostgreSQL developers are Mac users, including myself. They're also the company standard at EnterpriseDB - so we're not entirely unfamiliar with software development

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-02 Thread Dave Page
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Jay Levitt jay.lev...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, and if humans read docs, instead of just glancing at them, that'd be all you needed. In any case, I could counter myself that nobody reads the doc period, so it doesn't matter what version is listed; that's just the

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install? / apology

2012-04-02 Thread Jay Levitt
David Johnston wrote: Just trying to bridge an apparent gap since the original e-mail seems to have come across as too adversarial that the underlying thoughts have been overlooked. Trying to contribute in my own way with my current resources. Thanks, but it's my own fault for basing a

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-02 Thread Greg Stark
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:29 AM, Jay Levitt jay.lev...@gmail.com wrote: So this is pointless to the discussion now, but if you want to engage off-list, I'd frankly love to be reconvinced: It may not be an unreasonable thing for an individual user to do to their own machine. But it's not really

[HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-01 Thread Jay Levitt
The Mac installation docs currently recommend the EDB one-click installer as the first choice. While this does install pgadmin and some other refinements, it also is fairly confusing to troubleshoot: - By default, it installs to /Library/PostgreSQL, which is also (I think) where the

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-01 Thread Jay Levitt
Jay Levitt wrote: POSSIBLE OBJECTIONS/PREREQUISITES 10. There is no homebrew support for multiple versions, and no current plans to add it (though it's on the wishlist). This means homebrew is only useful if I want to install a PostgreSQL thingie is the common Mac use case. If people often

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Jay Levitt jay.lev...@gmail.com writes: So with all respect and thanks to EDB for maintaining those installers, I'd like to propose that homebrew become the recommended install method on Mac, and I will update the Mac formula to overcome any current objections. This proposal doesn't seem to

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-01 Thread Dave Page
Hi On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Jay Levitt jay.lev...@gmail.com wrote: The Mac installation docs currently recommend the EDB one-click installer as the first choice. While this does install pgadmin and some other refinements, it also is fairly confusing to troubleshoot: - By default, it

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-01 Thread Jay Levitt
Dave Page wrote: It seems to me that most of your arguments against the installers are based on incorrect understanding or information, and most of your arguments for Homebrew actually come across as arguments against! You're right about the former - and as to the latter, they *were*

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-01 Thread Jay Levitt
Tom Lane wrote: While you might not like the EDB installer, at least those folks are active in the lists and accountable for whatever problems their code has. Who in heck is responsible for the homebrew packaging, and do they answer questions in the PG lists? Just for general knowledge...

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-01 Thread David Johnston
On Apr 1, 2012, at 21:50, Jay Levitt jay.lev...@gmail.com wrote: Tom Lane wrote: While you might not like the EDB installer, at least those folks are active in the lists and accountable for whatever problems their code has. Who in heck is responsible for the homebrew packaging, and do they

Re: [HACKERS] Switching to Homebrew as recommended Mac install?

2012-04-01 Thread David Johnston
On Apr 1, 2012, at 13:14, Jay Levitt jay.lev...@gmail.com wrote: The Mac installation docs currently recommend the EDB one-click installer as the first choice. While this does install pgadmin and some other refinements, it also is fairly confusing to troubleshoot: The items are not