Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
* David Fetter: What is it about a GPLed psql client that is a non-starter for the installer? I'm not a fan of the GPL, but in this case, the effects of linking it in are quite limited in scope, i.e. they pertain to exactly one binary. And the usual showstopper, OpenSSL, might well fall under the system library exception on MacOS X. Curiously, the GPL favors proprietary operating systems in this area. -- Florian Weimerfwei...@bfk.de BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/ Kriegsstraße 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1 D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99 -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 08:32:03PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. What is it about a GPLed psql client that is a non-starter for the installer? I'm not a fan of the GPL, but in this case, the effects of linking it in are quite limited in scope, i.e. they pertain to exactly one binary. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter da...@fetter.org http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fet...@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM, David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 08:32:03PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. What is it about a GPLed psql client that is a non-starter for the installer? I'm not a fan of the GPL, but in this case, the effects of linking it in are quite limited in scope, i.e. they pertain to exactly one binary. The scope or number of files is irrelevant. Having just a single GPL'd file in those installers makes it impossible for ISVs to bundle them with their products, unless they open source them under a GPL compatible licence. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On 08/01/2011 02:17 PM, Dave Page wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM, David Fetterda...@fetter.org wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 08:32:03PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lanet...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. What is it about a GPLed psql client that is a non-starter for the installer? I'm not a fan of the GPL, but in this case, the effects of linking it in are quite limited in scope, i.e. they pertain to exactly one binary. The scope or number of files is irrelevant. Having just a single GPL'd file in those installers makes it impossible for ISVs to bundle them with their products, unless they open source them under a GPL compatible licence. IIRC, there is also a question of whether it is legal at all to distribute a binary linked with both libreadline and openssl. cheers andrew -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Mon, Aug 01, 2011 at 07:17:00PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM, David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 08:32:03PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. What is it about a GPLed psql client that is a non-starter for the installer? I'm not a fan of the GPL, but in this case, the effects of linking it in are quite limited in scope, i.e. they pertain to exactly one binary. The scope or number of files is irrelevant. Having just a single GPL'd file in those installers makes it impossible for ISVs to bundle them with their products, unless they open source them under a GPL compatible licence. I know of no one, not even the wackiest AGPL loony-tune, who claims that the GPL is infectious to the degree you're describing. Are you *sure* the reason you state is the actual reason? Cheers, David. -- David Fetter da...@fetter.org http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fet...@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Monday, August 1, 2011, David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 01, 2011 at 07:17:00PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM, David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 08:32:03PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. What is it about a GPLed psql client that is a non-starter for the installer? I'm not a fan of the GPL, but in this case, the effects of linking it in are quite limited in scope, i.e. they pertain to exactly one binary. The scope or number of files is irrelevant. Having just a single GPL'd file in those installers makes it impossible for ISVs to bundle them with their products, unless they open source them under a GPL compatible licence. I know of no one, not even the wackiest AGPL loony-tune, who claims that the GPL is infectious to the degree you're describing. Are you *sure* the reason you state is the actual reason? Well, lets find out. Try shipping a closed-source product which includes the GPL MySQL ODBC driver, and see how long you can hold out against Oracle's attack lawyers. Preventing open source code being used in closed source products is the whole point of the GPL. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On 08/01/2011 04:23 PM, David Fetter wrote: The scope or number of files is irrelevant. Having just a single GPL'd file in those installers makes it impossible for ISVs to bundle them with their products, unless they open source them under a GPL compatible licence. I know of no one, not even the wackiest AGPL loony-tune, who claims that the GPL is infectious to the degree you're describing. Years ago I was told exactly that by some perhaps over-enthusiastic MySQL Sales staff (in the pre-Sun days). They also had a *very* expansive notion of what constituted distribution. These guys are thus indirectly responsible to some extent for my involvement over the last eight years or so with PostgreSQL, proof that good may come of evil, if you like :-) cheers andrew -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
David Fetter da...@fetter.org writes: On Mon, Aug 01, 2011 at 07:17:00PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: The scope or number of files is irrelevant. Having just a single GPL'd file in those installers makes it impossible for ISVs to bundle them with their products, unless they open source them under a GPL compatible licence. I know of no one, not even the wackiest AGPL loony-tune, who claims that the GPL is infectious to the degree you're describing. Really? You must have a very small sample. The *entire reason* that there is an LGPL as well as straight GPL is that the latter is thought to have exactly this effect when used for a library. And the readline guys have deliberately chosen to use GPL, not LGPL, because that is the effect they want. This doesn't affect most Linux distributions because the entire distro is shipped under GPL-compliant conditions (eg you can get all the source). Or at least that's the interpretation Red Hat's lawyers use. But it *would* affect somebody who wanted to bundle readline-containing psql into a larger proprietary product. We use BSD-ish licensing in part because that scenario is okay with us ... and Dave is concerned about not losing that property for the installer builds. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Mon, Aug 01, 2011 at 09:38:30PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Monday, August 1, 2011, David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 01, 2011 at 07:17:00PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM, David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 08:32:03PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. What is it about a GPLed psql client that is a non-starter for the installer? I'm not a fan of the GPL, but in this case, the effects of linking it in are quite limited in scope, i.e. they pertain to exactly one binary. The scope or number of files is irrelevant. Having just a single GPL'd file in those installers makes it impossible for ISVs to bundle them with their products, unless they open source them under a GPL compatible licence. I know of no one, not even the wackiest AGPL loony-tune, who claims that the GPL is infectious to the degree you're describing. Are you *sure* the reason you state is the actual reason? Well, lets find out. Try shipping a closed-source product which includes the GPL MySQL ODBC driver, and see how long you can hold out against Oracle's attack lawyers. So long as you make the MySQL ODBC driver source code available, you have no problem. The GPL infection kicks in at the step where you link, which you're not doing when you ship that driver. Preventing open source code being used in closed source products is the whole point of the GPL. You're smarter than I if you've figured out what motivates Stallman and Moglen, and the text of the license is far from clear on this matter. This business about incompatibility between libssl and the GPL seems somewhat more plausible. Ideological opposition to shipping GPL software is also a plausible reason. There's nothing wrong with any of this. I just don't find the stated reason terribly plausible. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter da...@fetter.org http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fet...@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
Excerpts from Dave Page's message of sáb jul 30 15:32:03 -0400 2011: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. A fixed version of libedit, then? -- Álvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: Excerpts from Dave Page's message of sáb jul 30 15:32:03 -0400 2011: On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. A fixed version of libedit, then? Yes, that's the best we can do. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
[ ... having now installed OS X Lion ... ] Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org writes: On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: and if so does it crash when you try to tab-complete a case with exactly 9 completions? Tab complete doesn't seem to work at all (nor does it in my builds with libedit). No crashes or anything - it just spews a blank line and returns to the prompt. Same here. Investigation discloses that Apple took a snapshot of libedit at a time when rl_line_buffer was absolutely, utterly, completely broken: it doesn't get updated when the current-line buffer is realloc'd, meaning it's generally pointing at garbage, meaning we cannot see any of the words on the current line before the current word, meaning that any aspect of tab completion that requires preceding context does not work. So for example you can get it to tab-complete sel to SELECT, but no case where a table name needs to be completed will work, because all of those depend on seeing some previous words that cue us to think a table name is needed. This appears to have been fixed in netbsd libedit in christo's commit of Sat Aug 28 15:44:59 2010 UTC (readline.c v1.91 and other files of even date). However, Lion's copy of libedit is at least a month older than that (readline.c is v1.89, for instance). I'm off to file a bug report with Apple, and anybody else who cares about this should do likewise. But I would not hold my breath for a fix appearing before OS X 10.8 :-(. I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I think you had better plan on incorporating GNU readline into installer builds for Lion. Unfortunately the licence makes that a non-starter. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:01 AM, Peter Geoghegan wrote: On 22 July 2011 03:24, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I had a bug filed with Apple about that, and today I got some auto-mail indicating they'd fixed that bug as of OS X 10.7 (Lion). I don't have Lion installed here, but I grabbed the libedit sources from www.opensource.apple.com and indeed it looks fixed. So, if any early adopters want to try it out ... I'll add that I've heard reports that Lion Server comes with PostgreSQL as standard, and Lion Desktop comes with psql. Interesting... I assume that they're using it for something internal? IIRC this has actually caused some issues in the past... they had some rather old version installed that was being used by an internal tool... if you tried to install your own version some rather interesting issues could then crop up. -- Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect j...@nasby.net 512.569.9461 (cell) http://jim.nasby.net -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On 22 July 2011 03:24, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I had a bug filed with Apple about that, and today I got some auto-mail indicating they'd fixed that bug as of OS X 10.7 (Lion). I don't have Lion installed here, but I grabbed the libedit sources from www.opensource.apple.com and indeed it looks fixed. So, if any early adopters want to try it out ... I'll add that I've heard reports that Lion Server comes with PostgreSQL as standard, and Lion Desktop comes with psql. -- Peter Geoghegan http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training and Services -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Peter Geoghegan pe...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 22 July 2011 03:24, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I had a bug filed with Apple about that, and today I got some auto-mail indicating they'd fixed that bug as of OS X 10.7 (Lion). I don't have Lion installed here, but I grabbed the libedit sources from www.opensource.apple.com and indeed it looks fixed. So, if any early adopters want to try it out ... I'll add that I've heard reports that Lion Server comes with PostgreSQL as standard, and Lion Desktop comes with psql. Yup: raptor:PEM dpage$ uname -a Darwin raptor.local 11.0.0 Darwin Kernel Version 11.0.0: Sat Jun 18 12:56:35 PDT 2011; root:xnu-1699.22.73~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64 raptor:PEM dpage$ which psql /usr/bin/psql raptor:PEM dpage$ psql --version psql (PostgreSQL) 9.0.4 contains support for command-line editing -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org writes: On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Peter Geoghegan pe...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 22 July 2011 03:24, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I had a bug filed with Apple about that, and today I got some auto-mail indicating they'd fixed that bug as of OS X 10.7 (Lion). I don't have Lion installed here, but I grabbed the libedit sources from www.opensource.apple.com and indeed it looks fixed. So, if any early adopters want to try it out ... I'll add that I've heard reports that Lion Server comes with PostgreSQL as standard, and Lion Desktop comes with psql. Yup: raptor:PEM dpage$ psql --version psql (PostgreSQL) 9.0.4 contains support for command-line editing So, is it linked to their libedit, and if so does it crash when you try to tab-complete a case with exactly 9 completions? regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org writes: On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Peter Geoghegan pe...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On 22 July 2011 03:24, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I had a bug filed with Apple about that, and today I got some auto-mail indicating they'd fixed that bug as of OS X 10.7 (Lion). I don't have Lion installed here, but I grabbed the libedit sources from www.opensource.apple.com and indeed it looks fixed. So, if any early adopters want to try it out ... I'll add that I've heard reports that Lion Server comes with PostgreSQL as standard, and Lion Desktop comes with psql. Yup: raptor:PEM dpage$ psql --version psql (PostgreSQL) 9.0.4 contains support for command-line editing So, is it linked to their libedit, Yes. and if so does it crash when you try to tab-complete a case with exactly 9 completions? Tab complete doesn't seem to work at all (nor does it in my builds with libedit). No crashes or anything - it just spews a blank line and returns to the prompt. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
[HACKERS] libedit memory stomp is apparently fixed in OS X Lion
We've had several complaints about that tab-completion bug in the Apple-supplied version of libedit, most recently here: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2011-06/msg00119.php I had a bug filed with Apple about that, and today I got some auto-mail indicating they'd fixed that bug as of OS X 10.7 (Lion). I don't have Lion installed here, but I grabbed the libedit sources from www.opensource.apple.com and indeed it looks fixed. So, if any early adopters want to try it out ... regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
