OT: OFF TOPIC: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure
OT: OFF TOPIC: I honestly do not mean any offence, just out of curiosity. If you guys care about money and time why would you spend the best years of your life basically copying commercial products for free? Because for a person with higher than average IQ far less than one percent of any program is creative and needs some thinking and the bulk of it is just a million stupid details. I just don't follow/understand your thinking. Maybe I am naïve. I do not have experience with open source and I kind of thought open source guys do not need or care about money and time. John From: Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com To: John Adams john_adams_m...@yahoo.com Cc: PostgreSQL-development pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 1:07:03 PM Subject: Re: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure I noticed in postgres you cannot return multiple result sets from a stored procedure (surprisingly as it looks like a very good dbms). That feature has been on the TODO list for years. However, nobody has stepped forward to either write it, or to fund working on it. If your company has programmers or money to build this feature, it could probably get done fairly quickly (as in, next version). -- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://www.pgexperts.com
Re: OT: OFF TOPIC: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure
2010/9/3 John Adams john_adams_m...@yahoo.com: OT: OFF TOPIC: I honestly do not mean any offence, just out of curiosity. If you guys care about money and time why would you spend the best years of your life basically copying commercial products for free? Because for a person with higher than average IQ far less than one percent of any program is creative and needs some thinking and the bulk of it is just a million stupid details. I just don't follow/understand your thinking. Maybe I am naïve. I do not have experience with open source and I kind of thought open source guys do not need or care about money and time. The work on PostgreSQL is adventure, and very good experience, very good school for me. It's job only for people who like programming, who like hacking, it isn't job for people, who go to office on 8 hours. Next I use PostgreSQL for my job - and hacking on PostgreSQL put me a perfect knowledge, perfect contacts to developers, and I can work together with best programmers on planet. and I can create some good things. Probably if I work on commercial projects I can have a better money - but life is only one, and money is important, but not on top for me - life have to be adventure! Regards Pavel Stehule John From: Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com To: John Adams john_adams_m...@yahoo.com Cc: PostgreSQL-development pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 1:07:03 PM Subject: Re: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure I noticed in postgres you cannot return multiple result sets from a stored procedure (surprisingly as it looks like a very good dbms). That feature has been on the TODO list for years. However, nobody has stepped forward to either write it, or to fund working on it. If your company has programmers or money to build this feature, it could probably get done fairly quickly (as in, next version). -- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://www.pgexperts.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: OT: OFF TOPIC: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure
On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:07 AM, Pavel Stehule wrote: The work on PostgreSQL is adventure, and very good experience, very good school for me. It's job only for people who like programming, who like hacking, it isn't job for people, who go to office on 8 hours. Next I use PostgreSQL for my job - and hacking on PostgreSQL put me a perfect knowledge, perfect contacts to developers, and I can work together with best programmers on planet. and I can create some good things. Probably if I work on commercial projects I can have a better money - but life is only one, and money is important, but not on top for me - life have to be adventure! Could not have said it better myself. Best, David -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: OT: OFF TOPIC: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure
On Fri, Sep 03, 2010 at 01:40:56PM -0700, John Adams wrote: OT: OFF TOPIC: I honestly do not mean any offence, just out of curiosity. If you guys care about money and time why would you spend the best years of your life basically copying commercial products for free? Because for a person with higher than average IQ far less than one percent of any program is creative and needs some thinking and the bulk of it is just a million stupid details. It's difficult to answer a question when there are so many different wrong assumptions that underlie it. I'll take pieces of the questions, explicitly state the assumptions that underlie them, and explain what I mean by wrong. If you guys care about money Here you're assuming that open source code development on large projects like PostgreSQL is done in people's spare time. In reality, 80-95% of such development is done by people who are paid by their workplace to do so. In the case of PostgreSQL developers, this pay is at least comfortable, so your assumption that this is done uncompensated, in terms of money, is simply wrong. For those who do development and are not directly compensated by their employer for doing so, there are other monetary rewards, such as being able to put such projects on résumés/CVs, which in turn results in better job prospects, consulting fees for specialized knowledge, etc., etc. and time why would you spend the best years of your life That time's compensated, in many different ways, as illustrated above. Perhaps your life is in such desperate straits that you can devote time to nothing but acquiring money. If this is true, I feel very sorry for you. I feel even sorrier for you if you are not in such desperate straits, but you are nevertheless devoting every waking hour to the pursuit of money. It's a sad and lonely way to waste your precious days of life. basically copying In a technological sense, FLOSS often leads the way and products catch up later if at all. FLOSS technologies are frequently so much better than their proprietary counterparts that they kill existing markets (C compilers, e.g.), and cause markets in other technologies (dynamic languages, e.g.) never to form. commercial products for free? There's a lot of confusion about this word. Commercial means of or pertaining to commerce. It has nothing to do with whether the license is permissive like PostgreSQL's or extremely restrictive as it is with, say the Windows EULA. In future, if you wish to contrast licenses, it's free vs. proprietary, and if you wish to contrast usage, it's hobby vs. commerce vs. science, roughly speaking. Because for a person with higher than average IQ far less than one percent of any program is creative and needs some thinking and the bulk of it is just a million stupid details. The difference between imagining something and actually accomplishing it is precisely those million stupid details. The truly rewarding thing isn't dreaming up some wonderful dream. That's easy. The truly rewarding thing is in bringing that dream from a lonely and ethereal state to one that's shared and concrete, where it can in turn help spawn new dreams, which people then realize and share, and on and on and on. I just don't follow/understand your thinking. Maybe I am naïve. You're that, clearly, along with being misinformed, young, and arrogant. Fortunately, all of these things but youth are fixable if you decide to do the work to fix them, and by the time you've done that work, your youth will also be waning ;) Cheers, David. -- David Fetter da...@fetter.org http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fet...@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: OT: OFF TOPIC: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 4:40 PM, John Adams john_adams_m...@yahoo.com wrote: If you guys care about money and time why would you spend the best years of your life basically copying commercial products for free? I don't work for free. :-) There was a point at which this was just a hobby for me, but as it has since turned into a job, it's hard for me to say that the time I spent on it had no economic value. But it is also true that it was a great hobby. Working on PostgreSQL gave me an opportunity to work with some absolutely brilliant programmers, which is not something I've frequently gotten a chance to do in the course of my previous employment. And it's also fun to feel like you're contributing something back to a project that you've gotten so much out of. With respect to copying commerical products, we may be doing that to some extent, but it's not because we're sitting around going oh, so what has Oracle done lately?. We tend to think about what PostgreSQL needs and work on that. Sometimes there's overlap, other times not. Because for a person with higher than average IQ far less than one percent of any program is creative and needs some thinking and the bulk of it is just a million stupid details. I haven't written a program that matched this expectation since I was in high school. And I think that was only because I wasn't as good a programmer then as I thought I was. My experience is that most programming requires a lot of careful thought and good design, and that doing this well is not easy. This is doubly true for a large, complex, and mature project like PostgreSQL, where changes need to be exceedingly carefully thought out. I just don't follow/understand your thinking. Maybe I am naïve. I do not have experience with open source and I kind of thought open source guys do not need or care about money and time. I try not to make money the center of my life, but I like to get paid as much as the next guy. Many of the regulars here derive a substantial portion of their income from PostgreSQL-related work of one kind or another. Even when my PostgreSQL development was a hobby, a big part of my job revolved around developing FOR PostgreSQL. Filing down some of the rough edges I encountered during that development was one of the things that drew me to the project (the other being the aforementioned really smart people). -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: OT: OFF TOPIC: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure
John, I honestly do not mean any offence, just out of curiosity. If you guys care about money and time why would you spend the best years of your life basically copying commercial products for free? We don't do it to copy commercial products. We do it to build something better than them. I do not have experience with open source and I kind of thought open source guys do not need or care about money and time. It's a common misapprehension that open source software is somehow produced for free. The press has contributed to this myth a great deal by calling open source socialism and altruism. What's actually true about open source is that the organization which releases the product (the open source project) is not necessarily the same organzation which pays the developers. However, if you look at any mature, large open source project you will find that at least 1/4 of its code contributors are paid to work on the project by *someone*, and that those paid developers account for 70% to 95% of the code. PostgreSQL is no exception to this rule. The three differences between an open source project and proprietary software in terms of adding new features are: a) it's pay or play, which means that you have the option of writing the new feature yourself instead of funding it in cash, and b) the cost of developing new features if you choose to fund them is much cheaper (generally a couple orders of magnitude cheaper) than proprietary software because of the open market for developers and greater efficiency of OSS development, and c) it's *much* easier for multiple companies to contribute to the same project if that project is open source than if it's proprietary. Ultimately, however, if a feature is going to be added to any OSS project, that feature is going to be paid for by someone, either in money, time, or both. It does help us to get feedback like the feedback you gave eariler, even if you can't contribute to the project because it helps us prioritize new features. But you should recognize that if you're not contributing money or time to the project, you may have a long wait for the feature *you* want. -- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://www.pgexperts.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: OT: OFF TOPIC: [HACKERS] returning multiple result sets from a stored procedure
On 9/3/10 2:20 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: However, if you look at any mature, large open source project you will find that at least 1/4 of its code contributors are paid to work on the project by *someone*, and that those paid developers account for 70% to 95% of the code. Relevant link for this: http://apcmag.com/linux-now-75-corporate.htm -- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://www.pgexperts.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
