Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
Dann Corbit [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Look at this: http://www.mysql.com/information/crash-me.php?mysql_4_1=onpostgres=on This looks a little cleaner than the last time I looked at it (more than three years ago), but it's still fundamentally a marketing effort. It is not an exercise in spec

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Dann Corbit
-Original Message- From: Tom Lane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:47 PM To: Dann Corbit Cc: Jason Earl; PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze Dann Corbit [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Look at this:

Re: [HACKERS] compile failure on cvs tip --with-krb5

2003-06-21 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 07:48:02PM -0700, Joe Conway wrote: This change (I'm sure this will wrap poorly -- sorry): http://developer.postgresql.org/cvsweb.cgi/pgsql-server/src/include/libpq/pqcomm.h.diff?r1=1.85r2=1.86 modified SockAddr, but no corresponding change was made here

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread alvis
- Original Message - From: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Christopher Kings-Lynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dann Corbit [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jason Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED]; PostgreSQL-development [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:33 AM Subject:

Re: [HACKERS] what is the meaning of schema?

2003-06-21 Thread Richard Huxton
On Friday 20 Jun 2003 4:19 pm, _ wrote: My understanding of schema that I discovered in 7.3 (I don't think they were available before) is that you can have two tables with the same name if they are in different schemas. I have done a google search, as well as archive search but pg_dump

Re: [HACKERS] again: Bug #943: Server-Encoding from EUC_TW to

2003-06-21 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
Hello, I reported bug #943 (I found in 7.3.2) and you checked in some change against integer overflow. Now I upgraded to 7.3.3 and I'm not happy with this. The exact error as I described is fixed, but I found new errors in conversion UTF-8 - EUC_TW and BIG5: Copy to table (DB has UTF-8

Re: [HACKERS] Commands to change name, schema, owner

2003-06-21 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Tom Lane writes: A few. Moving a table across schemas would require moving its indexes and rowtype as well; conversely you should forbid moving the indexes and rowtype by themselves, or altering their owners separately from the table, or renaming the rowtype by itself. Right. This is

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Dann Corbit writes: So far, I have seen three problems pointed out (out of 600+ tests). That's 0.5% defects. Why not just drop the stupid tests, or bend them to test for what they ought to be testing. The problem with crashme is that it tells you nothing of practical value. It doesn't tell

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Thomas Swan writes: Have you considered something similar to the Mozilla tinderbox approach where you have a daemon checkout the cvs, compile, run regression tests, and report a status or be able to report a status? Even if you could achieve near complete coverage of the platforms, platform

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Rod Taylor
PostgreSQL has a comprehensive regression suite that is run by the developers all the time... If you mean the one that comes with PostgreSQL, then I think the MySQL test is better. The PostgreSQL test seems to focus more on extensions than anything else. I would be happy to make

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread The Hermit Hacker
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: Ultimately, this is one of those technical vs. marketing questions ... whether to release now with a bunch of back-end features that the current users want, or to release later and include the features that we said were going to be in 7.4. And

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread The Hermit Hacker
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Tom Lane wrote: Time was that we had a major release every 3 or 4 months. As the project matures I think it's appropriate for the cycle to get slower: a lot of low-hanging fruit is gone, so we have larger jobs to tackle, plus users are using PG for larger databases and

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread The Hermit Hacker
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Jason Earl wrote: Heck, there are probably more than 70 machines running CVS versions of PostgreSQL right this minute (Marc, any download numbers to back this up?). Unfortunately, most ppl testing would be using CVS or CVSup, which don't (or, at least, I haven't been able

Re: [HACKERS] compile failure on cvs tip --with-krb5

2003-06-21 Thread Kurt Roeckx
On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 07:48:02PM -0700, Joe Conway wrote: This change (I'm sure this will wrap poorly -- sorry): http://developer.postgresql.org/cvsweb.cgi/pgsql-server/src/include/libpq/pqcomm.h.diff?r1=1.85r2=1.86 modified SockAddr, but no corresponding change was made here

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread The Hermit Hacker
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Dann Corbit wrote: Hmm... I must have missed the huge corporation paying for in house testing of PostgreSQL. In the Free Software world the beta team is all of those people that need the new features so badly that they are willing to risk their own data and

Re: [HACKERS] Commands to change name, schema, owner

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Right, there's a global variable that stores the database name, but that will have to disappear. You'll have to look it up in the catalog like everything else. That answer is okay as long as we don't need to get at the value while outside any

Re: [HACKERS] compile failure on cvs tip --with-krb5

2003-06-21 Thread Joe Conway
Kurt Roeckx wrote: This patch should hopefully fix both kerberos 4 and 5. Thanks, the patch fixes the compile issue for me. Disclaimer: I can't vouch for krb4 at all. And, although I compile support for krb5, I do that to find build problems, not because I use krb5. So I can't really speak to

[HACKERS] Regression tests fails to start on system without unix sockets.

2003-06-21 Thread Kurt Roeckx
The regression tests will fail to start on a system that doesn't have, or wasn't compiled for, unix domain sockets. The pg_regress script will start the postmaster with the -i option in case of QNX and BEOS, but not for instance in case of WIN32. I see some options to fix this: - Always start

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thomas Swan writes: Have you considered something similar to the Mozilla tinderbox approach where you have a daemon checkout the cvs, compile, run regression tests, and report a status or be able to report a status? Even if you could achieve near

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Larry Rosenman
--On Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:43:17 -0400 Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thomas Swan writes: Have you considered something similar to the Mozilla tinderbox approach where you have a daemon checkout the cvs, compile, run regression tests, and

Re: [HACKERS] Regression tests fails to start on system without unix sockets.

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
Kurt Roeckx [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The regression tests will fail to start on a system that doesn't have, or wasn't compiled for, unix domain sockets. I see some options to fix this: - Always start with -i - Make the unix_sockets variable depend on HAVE_UNIX_SOCKETS intead of listen the

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As far as I can see NIST (http://www.itl.nist.gov/div897/ctg/sql_form.htm) tests are used *only* for testing SQL92 conformance. Latest available test suite version 6, dated 12/1996. Are you using about 6-7 years old test suite? Perhaps I am wrong, I would be happy If

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Alvaro Herrera
On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 10:04:09PM -0700, Dann Corbit wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:25:08PM -0700, Dann Corbit wrote: Citing Tom Lane: I have been through crash-me in some detail, and it left a very bad taste in my mouth. Don't bother holding it up as an example of good

Re: [HACKERS] [DEFAULT] Automated testing WAS: Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Josh Berkus
Dann, Thus, the best test team is a bunch of people doing unplanned things with the software, on a wide variety of platforms... That is the worst possible test plan. It totally lacks organization and there is no hint to define when the feature set has been covered. Ad hoc testing is a

Re: [HACKERS] Commands to change name, schema, owner

2003-06-21 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Christopher Kings-Lynne writes: The command is: ALTER THING name AUTHORIZATION username; (This is consistent with the CREATE SCHEMA syntax. Anyone like OWNER better?) k WHy not copy the exiting ALTER TABLE / OWNER TO syntax? Because the standard specifies the syntax CREATE SCHEMA name

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Thomas Swan
Larry Rosenman wrote: --On Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:43:17 -0400 Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thomas Swan writes: Have you considered something similar to the Mozilla tinderbox approach where you have a daemon checkout the cvs, compile, run

[HACKERS] interval's and printing...

2003-06-21 Thread Larry Rosenman
Why does the interval type not print seconds when they are zero? This leads to inconsistent reading of the information. 7.3.3: ler=# select '13 minutes'::interval; interval -- 00:13 (1 row) ler=# select '13 minutes 1 second'::interval; interval -- 00:13:01 (1 row) ler=# I

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Kevin Brown
Tom Lane wrote: I have been through crash-me in some detail, and it left a very bad taste in my mouth. Don't bother holding it up as an example of good practice. You seem to miss Dan's point. The specific implementation of crashme is undoubtedly flawed in a number of ways, but the idea is

Re: [HACKERS] interval's and printing...

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
Larry Rosenman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why does the interval type not print seconds when they are zero? Seems like a bug to me too. Anyone think it's not? Note this only occurs with DateStyle = ISO, the other datestyles use a different format for intervals. regards,

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Kevin Brown
I wrote: Tom Lane wrote: I have been through crash-me in some detail, and it left a very bad taste in my mouth. Don't bother holding it up as an example of good practice. You seem to miss Dan's point. The specific implementation of crashme is undoubtedly flawed in a number of ways,

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Andrew Dunstan
- Original Message - From: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Thomas Swan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze I don't think there is any company involved with

[HACKERS] a problem with index and user define type

2003-06-21 Thread Wang Mike
Hi all: I write a use define type (UUID) typedef struct uuid { uint32 time_low; uint16 time_mid; uint16 time_hi_and_version; uint8 clock_seq_hi_and_reserved; uint8 clock_seq_low; uint8 node[6]; } uuid; make all btree index function and operator,

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Rod Taylor wrote: Do we have any killer features added to 7.4 that we can shout about? There's usually been one or two in the past...? A quick glance at the TODO list shows a number of speed improvements in specific areas (IN, GROUP BY, Subselects in views), ARRAY improvements, some

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: Christopher Kings-Lynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about the nested transaction stuff? With all due respect to Alvaro et al, I can't imagine that that will make it into 7.4. (I have no confidence that PITR or Win32 native port will make it either...) Do we have any

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Oleg Bartunov wrote: Do we have any killer features added to 7.4 that we can shout about? There's usually been one or two in the past...? I'm not sure if contrib/tsearch is a killer feature, but we hope to submit completely new version of tsearch V2 before July 1. Actually, we have stable

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Andrew Dunstan wrote: Maybe a better strategy would be to get a release out soon but not wait 6 months for another release which would contain the Win32 port and the PITR stuff (assuming those aren't done in time for this release). What concerns me is that we thought that after 7.3, and

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Jason Earl wrote: I'd rather see the dev cycle shortened by a month, then extended ... Why couldn't you just release the win32 version of 7.4 when it was finished. If it takes an extra month then that just gives you guys the chance to circulate *two* press releases. The Native Win32 port

[HACKERS] PQfreemem??

2003-06-21 Thread David Brown
What happened to: void PQfreemem(void *) in libpq-fe.h? I thought it was going to be included in 7.3.3 ? -Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread The Hermit Hacker
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: What does bother me is that we weren't getting any closer on those _hard_ items. At least with this release, we will be _closer_ on Win32 and PITR. Maybe our problem is such a ... hatred of #ifdef? Maybe its time to go back a bit to our roots ...

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Dann Corbit wrote: Adding a new platform--especially a platform as diverse from the rest of PostgreSQL's supported platforms as Windows--is what adds the work. Testing the new platform is relatively easy. All you need to do is to start using the Win32 version with real live data.

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Dann Corbit wrote: Perhaps all that is needed is some sort of automated, formal reporting procedure. For example, a large test set might be created that runs a thorough regression feature list. When the test completes, a data file is emailed to some central repository, parsed, and stored in

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Dann Corbit wrote: That is the worst possible test plan. It totally lacks organization and there is no hint to define when the feature set has been covered. Ad hoc testing is a useful addition, but it cannot replace all the standard tests that have been used by the industry for decades.

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
The Hermit Hacker wrote: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: What does bother me is that we weren't getting any closer on those _hard_ items. At least with this release, we will be _closer_ on Win32 and PITR. Maybe our problem is such a ... hatred of #ifdef? Maybe its time to

Re: [HACKERS] a problem with index and user define type

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
Wang Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but this query: select * from test_uuid where id = 'df2b10aa-a31d-11d7-9867-0050babb6029'::uuid dosn't use index QUERY PLAN --- Seq Scan on test_uuid

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
I have added a cleaned up version of this to CVS as src/tools/pgtest. --- Bruce Momjian wrote: Dann Corbit wrote: Perhaps all that is needed is some sort of automated, formal reporting procedure. For example, a large

Re: [HACKERS] PQfreemem??

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
David Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What happened to: void PQfreemem(void *) in libpq-fe.h? I thought it was going to be included in 7.3.3 ? 7.4 branch only, AFAICS. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Tom Lane
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom said that our low-hanging fruit is gone and only hard items are left. This is certainly true. What is hard to accept is that those big items take _weeks_ of focused development, and we just don't have enough full-time developers who can spend that

Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze

2003-06-21 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom said that our low-hanging fruit is gone and only hard items are left. This is certainly true. What is hard to accept is that those big items take _weeks_ of focused development, and we just don't have enough full-time