Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2017-01-02 Thread Ryan Murphy
> Making --wait the default may or may not be sensible -- I'm not sure > -- but removing --no-wait is clearly a bad idea, and we shouldn't do > it. The fact that the problems created by removing it might be > solvable doesn't mean that it's a good idea to create them in the > first place. > > > I

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2017-01-02 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Jim Nasby wrote: > On 12/23/16 6:10 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >> Michael Paquier writes: >>> Is there still a use case for --no-wait in the real world? >> >> Sure. Most system startup scripts aren't going to want to

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-23 Thread Jim Nasby
On 12/23/16 6:10 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Michael Paquier writes: Is there still a use case for --no-wait in the real world? Sure. Most system startup scripts aren't going to want to wait. If we take it out those people will go back to starting the postmaster by hand.

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-23 Thread Tom Lane
Michael Paquier writes: > Is there still a use case for --no-wait in the real world? Sure. Most system startup scripts aren't going to want to wait. If we take it out those people will go back to starting the postmaster by hand. regards, tom

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-23 Thread Michael Paquier
On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On 12/20/16 3:43 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: >> On 12/20/16 3:31 PM, Ryan Murphy wrote: >>> I'm concerned some new users may not understand this behavior of pg_ctl, >>> so I wanted to suggest that we add

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-23 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 12/20/16 3:43 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On 12/20/16 3:31 PM, Ryan Murphy wrote: >> I'm concerned some new users may not understand this behavior of pg_ctl, >> so I wanted to suggest that we add some additional messaging after >> "server starting" - something like: >> >> $ pg_ctl -D datadir

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-20 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 12/20/16 3:49 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Peter Eisentraut writes: >> Maybe the fix is to make --wait the default? > I was wondering about that too ... does anyone remember the rationale > for the current behavior? Probably because that didn't work reliably before

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-20 Thread David G. Johnston
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Peter Eisentraut writes: > > Maybe the fix is to make --wait the default? > > I was wondering about that too ... does anyone remember the rationale > for the current behavior? But the

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-20 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane wrote: > Ryan Murphy writes: > > I'm concerned some new users may not understand this behavior of pg_ctl, so > > I wanted to suggest that we add some additional messaging after "server > > starting" - something like: > > > $ pg_ctl -D datadir -l logfile start > >

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-20 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut writes: > Maybe the fix is to make --wait the default? I was wondering about that too ... does anyone remember the rationale for the current behavior? But the message for the non-wait case seems like it could stand to be improved independently

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-20 Thread Tom Lane
Ryan Murphy writes: > I'm concerned some new users may not understand this behavior of pg_ctl, so > I wanted to suggest that we add some additional messaging after "server > starting" - something like: > $ pg_ctl -D datadir -l logfile start > server starting > (to wait for

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-20 Thread David Fetter
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 03:43:11PM -0500, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On 12/20/16 3:31 PM, Ryan Murphy wrote: > > I'm concerned some new users may not understand this behavior of pg_ctl, > > so I wanted to suggest that we add some additional messaging after > > "server starting" - something like: >

Re: [HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-20 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On 12/20/16 3:31 PM, Ryan Murphy wrote: > I'm concerned some new users may not understand this behavior of pg_ctl, > so I wanted to suggest that we add some additional messaging after > "server starting" - something like: > > $ pg_ctl -D datadir -l logfile start > server starting > (to wait for

[HACKERS] Clarifying "server starting" messaging in pg_ctl start without --wait

2016-12-20 Thread Ryan Murphy
Hi Postgres Devs, I had a suggestion regarding the output pg_ctl gives when you use it to start the postgres server. At first I was going to write a patch, but then I decided to just ask you guys first to see what you think. I had an issue earlier where I was trying to upgrade my postgres