Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Robert Haas]

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:55 AM, Zeray Kalayu  wrote:
> Therefore, I feel and think that I am a bit in a hurry to be DB
> hacker. But given time, indefatigability and PG community support, I
> believe that I will manage to achieve my dream.

Indefatigability is key.

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Robert Haas
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The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company


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Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Zeray Kalayu]

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Michael Paquier
 wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Zeray Kalayu  wrote:
>> Lastly, I strongly believe that Code is the ultimate truth and being
>> able to understand complex and high quality code effectively and
>> strategically is of paramount importance.
>
> Documentation to understand how a system works from the user
> prospective, and comments in the code itself are also important
> properties of a code that can be considered as a good base. Postgres
> has both.

Michael,thanks and I am trying to take advantage of them.
Actually, I have learned that being hacker of PG or other data
management platforms  like Greenplum is not a one-stop story or
journey. It is the sum of deep understanding of computing sciences(the
foundations like compatibility theory, computational complexity...),
the engineering aspect of computing and the tech aspect of the same.

Therefore, I feel and think that I am a bit in a hurry to be DB
hacker. But given time, indefatigability and PG community support, I
believe that I will manage to achieve my dream.

Regards,
Zeray


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Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Michael Paquier]

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Zeray Kalayu  wrote:
> Lastly, I strongly believe that Code is the ultimate truth and being
> able to understand complex and high quality code effectively and
> strategically is of paramount importance.

Documentation to understand how a system works from the user
prospective, and comments in the code itself are also important
properties of a code that can be considered as a good base. Postgres
has both.
-- 
Michael


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Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Zeray Kalayu]

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 2:45 AM, Tom Lane  wrote:
> Peter Geoghegan  writes:
>> 2. Start somewhere. I have no idea where that should be, but it has to
>> be some particular place that seems interesting to you.
>
> Don't forget to start with the available documentation, ie
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/internals.html
> You should certainly read
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/overview.html
> and depending on what your interests are, there are probably other
> chapters of Part VII that are worth your time.
>
> Also keep an eye out for README files in the part of the source
> tree you're browsing in.

There is at least one book with more than 500 pages on "Code Reading"
and I can see and sense that "Code Reading" competency is not a
trivial problem
nowadays(https://www.amazon.com/Code-Reading-Open-Source-Perspective/dp/0201799405).

Dear Tom Lane, I know that you are one of the most competent PG hacker
we ever have. You could write a book entitled: "The Art Of Code
Reading: The Case Of PostgreSQL" so that many beginners struggling to
find their space in PG would somehow shorten the amount of effort
required to be capable PG hackers. I feel and think that you are not
able to write a book on your art/style of writing and reading code
simply because you are so busy taking PG forward .

To reiterate: Code Reading has become increasingly important more than
ever and thus, the problem of code reading needs to be be addressed
comprehensively as it is being tried in
https://www.amazon.com/Code-Reading-Open-Source-Perspective/dp/0201799405).

Lastly, I strongly believe that Code is the ultimate truth and being
able to understand complex and high quality code effectively and
strategically is of paramount importance.

BTW, I have taken all of the PG hackers advice and am studying the
code base accordingly.

Regards,
Zeray


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Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Zeray Kalayu]

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 6:23 AM, Craig Ringer  wrote:
> On 28 July 2017 at 07:45, Tom Lane  wrote:
>>
>> Peter Geoghegan  writes:
>> > 2. Start somewhere. I have no idea where that should be, but it has to
>> > be some particular place that seems interesting to you.
>>
>> Don't forget to start with the available documentation, ie
>> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/internals.html
>> You should certainly read
>> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/overview.html
>> and depending on what your interests are, there are probably other
>> chapters of Part VII that are worth your time.
>>
>> Also keep an eye out for README files in the part of the source
>> tree you're browsing in.
>
>
> In fact, even though you won't initially understand much from some of them,
> reading most of
>
> find src/ -name README\*
>
> can be quite useful. It's nearly time for me to do that again myself; each
> time I absorb more.
>
> There are very useful comments at the start of some of the source files too.
> Unfortunately in some cases the really important explanation will be on some
> function that you won't know to look for, not the comment at the top of the
> file, so there's an element of discovery there.
>
> I'd start with the docs as Tom suggested, then
>
> * https://www.postgresql.org/developer/
> * https://momjian.us/main/presentations/internals.html
> * https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Development_information
> * https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/So,_you_want_to_be_a_developer%3F
> * https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Developer_FAQ
>
> (some of which need to be added to the "developer information" wiki page I
> think)
>

Thanks dear hackers. This is an enormous help for me.

I think recommending specific techniques/tools like Cscope, find src/
-name README\*   and others you might know that make life easy  with
PG hacking can be great help for the beginners.

Regards,
Zeray


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Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Craig Ringer]

On 28 July 2017 at 07:45, Tom Lane  wrote:

> Peter Geoghegan  writes:
> > 2. Start somewhere. I have no idea where that should be, but it has to
> > be some particular place that seems interesting to you.
>
> Don't forget to start with the available documentation, ie
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/internals.html
> You should certainly read
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/overview.html
> and depending on what your interests are, there are probably other
> chapters of Part VII that are worth your time.
>
> Also keep an eye out for README files in the part of the source
> tree you're browsing in.


In fact, even though you won't initially understand much from some of them,
reading most of

find src/ -name README\*

can be quite useful. It's nearly time for me to do that again myself; each
time I absorb more.

There are very useful comments at the start of some of the source files
too. Unfortunately in some cases the really important explanation will be
on some function that you won't know to look for, not the comment at the
top of the file, so there's an element of discovery there.

I'd start with the docs as Tom suggested, then

* https://www.postgresql.org/developer/
* https://momjian.us/main/presentations/internals.html
* https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Development_information
* https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/So,_you_want_to_be_a_developer%3F
* https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Developer_FAQ

(some of which need to be added to the "developer information" wiki page I
think)

-- 
 Craig Ringer   http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
 PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services

Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Joshua D. Drake]

On 07/27/2017 04:45 PM, Tom Lane wrote:

Peter Geoghegan  writes:

2. Start somewhere. I have no idea where that should be, but it has to
be some particular place that seems interesting to you.


Don't forget to start with the available documentation, ie
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/internals.html
You should certainly read
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/overview.html
and depending on what your interests are, there are probably other
chapters of Part VII that are worth your time.

Also keep an eye out for README files in the part of the source
tree you're browsing in.


The doxygen instance at doxygen.postgresql.org is also helpful in 
navigating dependencies as you start attacking a features.


JD



regards, tom lane





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Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Tom Lane]

Peter Geoghegan  writes:
> 2. Start somewhere. I have no idea where that should be, but it has to
> be some particular place that seems interesting to you.

Don't forget to start with the available documentation, ie
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/internals.html
You should certainly read
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/overview.html
and depending on what your interests are, there are probably other
chapters of Part VII that are worth your time.

Also keep an eye out for README files in the part of the source
tree you're browsing in.

regards, tom lane


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Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Peter Geoghegan]

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Zeray Kalayu  wrote:
> I want to be PG hacker but it seems a complex beast to find my way out in it.
>  So, can anyone suggest me from his experience/style the general
> approaches/techniques/strategies on how to read complex source code in
> general and PG in particular effectively.

I can only think of two things:

1. Get familiar with how cscope or a similar tool works. Figure out
how to make it integrate well with your text editor.

2. Start somewhere. I have no idea where that should be, but it has to
be some particular place that seems interesting to you.

The trick, if there is one, is to find what you read in some way
relevant, interesting, or useful, in the short term, so that a
virtuous circle starts. I don't think that there's a right place to
begin. If you find a way to learn that is sustainable, then you can
eventually have a good understanding of the system as a whole.

-- 
Peter Geoghegan


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Re: [HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Albe Laurenz]

Zeray Kalayu wrote:
> I want to be PG hacker but it seems a complex beast to find my way out in it.
>  So, can anyone suggest me from his experience/style the general
> approaches/techniques/strategies on how to read complex source code in
> general and PG in particular effectively.
> 
> Can you remember your being novice to PostgreSQL hacking and write
> your experience/style to me and probably to other novices as well.
> 
> There are some guidelines in PG wiki but they are far from the truth
> of down the rabbit hole.
> 
> I believe that there is plethora of knowledge and skill sets in the PG
> hackers head not to be found in any kind of written material and thus,
> that It would be great if any PG hacker could write his
> experience/style of PG hacking so that is of useful asset for PG
> hacking beginners.

I'm not the most competent hacker around, but maybe that qualifies
me to answer your question :^)

I assume that you have read the documentation and know your
way around PostgreSQL.

Find something that you need and want to work on - maybe some
shortcoming or missing feature of PostgreSQL.  The TODO list
(https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Todo) may give some inspiration,
but be cautioned that it contains mostly things that nobody
could reach consensus on or implement easily.

Best is to work on something that serves your own need.
You don't have to work on core PostgreSQL, it could also be a
server extension.

If you have some project, you have an angle from which to tackle
the large body of code that PostgreSQL is.
As always, start with a design. Ask the list before you start coding.

Another good and commendable path into the source is to review
patches (https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Reviewing_a_Patch).
This is higly appreciated, because there is always a shortage of
reviewers, and you get to see how other people go about changing the code.
There is a lot to learn this way!

You will find that the PostgreSQL source is mostly well written,
well documented and well structured.

Yours,
Laurenz Albe

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[HACKERS] On Complex Source Code Reading Strategy

[Zeray Kalayu]

Hello Dear PostgreSQL Hackers,

I want to be PG hacker but it seems a complex beast to find my way out in it.
 So, can anyone suggest me from his experience/style the general
approaches/techniques/strategies on how to read complex source code in
general and PG in particular effectively.

Can you remember your being novice to PostgreSQL hacking and write
your experience/style to me and probably to other novices as well.

There are some guidelines in PG wiki but they are far from the truth
of down the rabbit hole.

I believe that there is plethora of knowledge and skill sets in the PG
hackers head not to be found in any kind of written material and thus,
that It would be great if any PG hacker could write his
experience/style of PG hacking so that is of useful asset for PG
hacking beginners.

Regards,
Zeray


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