[HACKERS] Win32 port
Le Mardi 18 Novembre 2003 20:22, ow a écrit : Not really. I simply think there are more pressing issues than win32 port. Dear friends, Porting to Win32 can multiply: - direct users (i.e. developers) by a factor of two or three, - indirect users by a larger factor, provided that major projects include PostgreSQL in their offer. PostgreSQL is a potential candidate for integration in OpenOffice, PHP bundles and several other projects. This is not the case of Firebird or MySQL which are not mature enough and do not cover all needs like PostgreSQL does. PostgreSQL Win32 users can account in millions of people, not hundred thousands like today. OK, now, some of us will complain that Win32 is not needed at a time when the Debian Synaptic graphical installer gives access to 13.748 packages. Win32 sounds like an old Atari game station. Agreed. On the long-run, everyone will leave Win32, even my grand-mother. But, on the converse, porting PostgreSQL to Windows today should be considered with care, because Win32 is the last component needed to reach a portfolio effect. [or to make a comparision in the Risk strategy game, when you have all countries in a continent, you win the continent]. Presently, PostgreSQL can be viewed as a large range of products and solutions. But this range only needs the Win32 port to become a complete portfolio. A portfolio effect is reached when you always answer questions with Yes or All. Do you do this or do that? Answer A: yes, we do them All. Answer B: yes, we do them All. Answer C: yes, we do them All. = portfolio effect ... You wake-up and suddenly PostgreSQL becomes the next Office-suite in the domain of databases. This attracks more developers and everyone is happy with business. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Jean-Michel POURE wrote: OK, now, some of us will complain that Win32 is not needed at a time when the Debian Synaptic graphical installer gives access to 13.748 packages. Win32 sounds like an old Atari game station. Agreed. On the long-run, everyone will leave Win32, even my grand-mother. Well, jokes and rants aside, win32 port is on high priority. The whole debate started on advocacy was 'Whether win32 port is killer-enough feature?' and not 'Whether win32 port is required now?' Win32 will happen. and we will revisit this debate when there is another release with win32..:-) Shridhar ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port - current status?
On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 01:58, Claudio Natoli wrote: I'm just (one of the many?) hanging out for this, to justify continued use of Postgres to the powers that be. Seems like there has been no word on this for a couple weeks, and I'm not even sure whether or not it has made/will make it into 7.4? Perhaps I've missed a crucial message somewhere... I certainly can't comment on it's current status, but it most certainly will not be in 7.4. I too am very excited by the port, but it just didn't get done in time for 7.4, I hope it makes it into 7.5 devel early on in the cycle. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port - current status?
Claudio Natoli wrote: just wondering if the guys involved in the Win32 port could give a quick update? I'm just (one of the many?) hanging out for this, to justify continued use of Postgres to the powers that be. Seems like there has been no word on this for a couple weeks, and I'm not even sure whether or not it has made/will make it into 7.4? Perhaps I've missed a crucial message somewhere... Well, I was going to post a link to the message in the archives, but it appears the archives aren't getting updated -- last good message is from Philip Yarra at about 1400 on 10 July. Here's a copy of what Bruce posted to HACKERS on July 10 later in the day: As some of you may already have realized, the Win32 port and point-in-time recovery (PITR) will not be in the 7.4 release. I was working on Win32, but ran out of time. Jan did not help. Patrick was working on PITR, but ran out of time too, and J.R might be helping him. My new plan is for us to work on Win32 and PITR during the 7.4 beta. If they can be completed in time for 7.4 final, we will add those features and push out a 7.5 release soon afterwards. This give us a nice short-term deadline to shoot for again. Joe ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Win32 port - current status?
Hi all, just wondering if the guys involved in the Win32 port could give a quick update? I'm just (one of the many?) hanging out for this, to justify continued use of Postgres to the powers that be. Seems like there has been no word on this for a couple weeks, and I'm not even sure whether or not it has made/will make it into 7.4? Perhaps I've missed a crucial message somewhere... All the best, Claudio Certain disclaimers and policies apply to all email sent from Memetrics. For the full text of these disclaimers and policies see http://www.memetrics.com/emailpolicy.html ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] win32 port
It is going to be non-threaded in 7.4. SRA may contribute their threaded version to a future release of PostgreSQL, but I don't think it will be 7.4. We are using PeerDirect's Win32 port, with a few improvements from SRA's port (minus their thread changes). I am going to work on it in March. --- Merlin Moncure wrote: Has a final decision been made if the win32 port is going to be threaded or not? Merlin -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] win32 port
Has a final decision been made if the win32 port is going to be threaded or not? Merlin
Re: [HACKERS] win32 port --asynchronous I/O and memory
Merlin Moncure wrote: Just a quick question... are you guys using the C runtime or the win32 API to do things like file i/o and memory allocation. If you are using the win32 api, are you using asynchronous I/O? Generally, how much raw win32 code do you expect to write (assumption: as little as possible). As for memory, what's the general allocation scheme? I have not looked at the source much, but I know postgres has a very good memory manager. There are a few different ways of going about it. I wrote a database backend of sorts a while back and my experience was that you have to take certain precautions or you are in danger of thrashing the server, which in extreme cases is basically the same as crashing the system. Part of the danger is memory allocations for the database sometimes compete with the file system caching, causing massive performance degradations. MSSQL avoids this because it is very tightly wound with the virtual allocation system. PostgreSQL's memory context system is untouched and uses the standard C libraries malloc()/free() as in Unix. As a rule of thumb, we only touched things that needed to be touched because of missing features or differences in the C libraries. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port powerfail testing
Try it with FreeBSD's UFS and FreeBSD 5.0's new UFS2 filesystems perhaps - or I could! Chris On 1 Feb 2003, Greg Copeland wrote: On Fri, 2003-01-31 at 14:36, Dave Page wrote: I intend to run the tests on a Dual PIII 1GHz box, with 1Gb of Non-ECC RAM and a 20Gb (iirc) IDE disk. I will run on Windows 2000 Server with an NTFS filesystem, and again on Slackware Linux 8 with either ext3 or reiserfs (which is preferred?). Please go with XFS or ext3. There are a number of blessed and horror stories which still float around about reiserfs (recent and old; even though I've never lost data with it -- using it now even). Might be worth testing FAT32 on NT as well. Even if we don't advocate it's use, it may not hurt to at least get an understanding of what one might reasonably expect from it. I'm betting there are people just waiting to run with FAT32 in the Win32 world. ;) Regards, -- Greg Copeland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copeland Computer Consulting ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port powerfail testing
On Sat, 2003-02-01 at 00:34, Adam Haberlach wrote: On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 12:27:31AM -0600, Greg Copeland wrote: On Fri, 2003-01-31 at 14:36, Dave Page wrote: I intend to run the tests on a Dual PIII 1GHz box, with 1Gb of Non-ECC RAM and a 20Gb (iirc) IDE disk. I will run on Windows 2000 Server with an NTFS filesystem, and again on Slackware Linux 8 with either ext3 or reiserfs (which is preferred?). Please go with XFS or ext3. There are a number of blessed and horror stories which still float around about reiserfs (recent and old; even though I've never lost data with it -- using it now even). Might be worth testing FAT32 on NT as well. Even if we don't advocate it's use, it may not hurt to at least get an understanding of what one might reasonably expect from it. I'm betting there are people just waiting to run with FAT32 in the Win32 world. ;) You'd better go with NTFS. There are a number of blessed and horror stories which still float around about FAT32 (recent and old; even though I've never lost data with it -- using it now even now. Might be worth testing reiserfs on Linux as well. Even if we don't advocate it's use, it may not hurt to at least get an understanding of what one my reasonably expect from it. I'm better there are people just waiting to run with reiserfs in the Linux world. ;) Regards, and tongue firmly in cheek, Touche! :P While I understand and even appreciate the humor value, I do believe the picture is slightly different than your analysis. If we make something that runs on Win32 platforms, might it also run on Win98, WinME, etc.? Let's face the facts that should it also run on these platforms, it's probably only a matter of time before someone has it running on FAT32 (even possible on NT, etc). In other words, I'm fully expecting the lowest common denominator of MySQL user to be looking at PostgreSQL on Win32. Which potentially means lots of FAT32 use. And yes, even for a production environment. Ack! Double-ack! Also, Dave was asking for feedback between reiserfs and ext3. I offered XFS and ext3 as candidates. I personally believe that ext3 and XFS are going to be the more common (in that order) of journaled FS for DB Linux users. Besides, aside from any bugs in reiserfs, testing results for ext3 or XFS should probably coincide with reasonable expectations for reiserfs as well. As I consider FAT32 to be much more fragile than ext2 (having had seriously horrendous corruption and repaired/recovered from it on ext2), the results may prove interesting. Which is to say, should testing prove absolutely horrible results, proper disclaimers and warnings should be made readily available to avoid its use. Which is probably not a bad idea to begin with. ;) Nonetheless, it's an unknown right now in my mind. Hopefully some testing my reveal what reasonable expectations we should hold so that we can knowingly advise accordingly. Regards, -- Greg Copeland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copeland Computer Consulting ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port powerfail testing
On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 11:30:17AM -0600, Greg Copeland wrote: On Sat, 2003-02-01 at 00:34, Adam Haberlach wrote: On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 12:27:31AM -0600, Greg Copeland wrote: On Fri, 2003-01-31 at 14:36, Dave Page wrote: Please go with XFS or ext3. There are a number of blessed and horror stories which still float around about reiserfs (recent and old; even though I've never lost data with it -- using it now even). Might be worth testing FAT32 on NT as well. Even if we don't advocate it's use, it may not hurt to at least get an understanding of what one might reasonably expect from it. I'm betting there are people just waiting to run with FAT32 in the Win32 world. ;) You'd better go with NTFS. There are a number of blessed and horror stories which still float around about FAT32 (recent and old; even though I've never lost data with it -- using it now even now. Might be worth testing reiserfs on Linux as well. Even if we don't advocate it's use, it may not hurt to at least get an understanding of what one my reasonably expect from it. I'm better there are people just waiting to run with reiserfs in the Linux world. ;) Regards, and tongue firmly in cheek, Touche! :P While I understand and even appreciate the humor value, I do believe the picture is slightly different than your analysis. If we make something that runs on Win32 platforms, might it also run on Win98, WinME, etc.? Let's face the facts that should it also run on these platforms, it's probably only a matter of time before someone has it running on FAT32 (even possible on NT, etc). In other words, I'm fully expecting the lowest common denominator of MySQL user to be looking at PostgreSQL on Win32. Which potentially means lots of FAT32 use. And yes, even for a production environment. Ack! Double-ack! I was just trying to point out the inherent elitist bias in saying that Microsoft's old filesystem should be tested, even though it's use is discouraged, while one of Linux's new filesystems shouldn't, even though it's use is popular. There's a huge double standard here, caused by fear, uncertainty, and doubt. I'm just personally pretty tired of this anti-Microsoft bias. I'm going to be frank and say that many of the people here sound like a bunch of elitist assholes who refuse to sully themselves with a well-used, well-supported, and lately very useful operating system. For those of you who know my history (or care), I've supported Solaris, Linux, Win NT from 3.51 on up, and worked at one of the non-Linux anti-Microsoft companies for 4 years. I worked in a testlab where we tested and broke NT (usually caused by driver failures), SCO Unix (who KNOWs what made it panic), and Netware (effectively bulletproof). The fact is, the Win32 platform is mature. It is a modern operating system, and just because they don't do some things the way that the old guard Unix greybeards to doesn't necessarily make it inferior. What's more, all of this testing of filesystems is pretty moot at some point. So far, I've lost more data and time due to a bad locking procedure during vacuums (forcing a lot of quiet in-field upgrades from 7.2.2 to 7.2.3) then I ever expect to lose due to power failure. If we could spend a little more time testing the actual product and a little less time worrying about the underlying operating system, I'd be pretty happy. ...and I'm done discussing the issue for now, since there's not much more for me to say... -- Adam Haberlach | If I have hacked deeper than them, it is [EMAIL PROTECTED] | because I stand in their trenches. http://mediariffic.com |-- Graham Nelson ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port powerfail testing
-Original Message- From: Christopher Kings-Lynne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 01 February 2003 12:40 To: Greg Copeland Cc: Dave Page; PostgresSQL Hackers Mailing List; Tom Lane Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port powerfail testing Try it with FreeBSD's UFS and FreeBSD 5.0's new UFS2 filesystems perhaps - or I could! OK thanks for the comments everyone. Due to the fact that I really need to do quite a few tests and this might take a fair while, I'm going to limit this to ext3 and NTFS5. I'm all for the Win32 port, but if there's one thing I firmly believe it's that we should stongly recommend Windows 2000+ with NTFS as a minimum OS in all our docs. At a push I might agree to NT4 :-) As there have been no objections to my test program, I'll assume everyone agrees that it should test what is required and therefore expect not to hear 'but you didn't do...' if I end up in the same predicament as Hannu's friend!! Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] win32 port --asynchronous I/O and memory
Just a quick question... are you guys using the C runtime or the win32 API to do things like file i/o and memory allocation. If you are using the win32 api, are you using asynchronous I/O? Generally, how much raw win32 code do you expect to write (assumption: as little as possible). As for memory, what's the general allocation scheme? I have not looked at the source much, but I know postgres has a very good memory manager. There are a few different ways of going about it. I wrote a database backend of sorts a while back and my experience was that you have to take certain precautions or you are in danger of thrashing the server, which in extreme cases is basically the same as crashing the system. Part of the danger is memory allocations for the database sometimes compete with the file system caching, causing massive performance degradations. MSSQL avoids this because it is very tightly wound with the virtual allocation system. Merlin ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Win32 port powerfail testing
Despite some people's thoughts that a powerfail test is of little use, I going to spend some time doing one anyway because I think Tom's arguments for it are valid. I have lashed together the attached test program (the important bits are the setup, run and check functions) for review before I actually do anything next week. Comments, suggestions etc are welcome, though I don't have the time to write anything too complex, but do want to perform a valid test first time round if possible. I intend to run the tests on a Dual PIII 1GHz box, with 1Gb of Non-ECC RAM and a 20Gb (iirc) IDE disk. I will run on Windows 2000 Server with an NTFS filesystem, and again on Slackware Linux 8 with either ext3 or reiserfs (which is preferred?). The number of runs will be dictated by my workload next week, but I'd like to do at least 20 powerfails on each OS. Regards, Dave. pgtest.c Description: pgtest.c ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port powerfail testing
Dave Page kirjutas R, 31.01.2003 kell 22:36: Despite some people's thoughts that a powerfail test is of little use, I going to spend some time doing one anyway because I think Tom's arguments for it are valid. I have lashed together the attached test program (the important bits are the setup, run and check functions) for review before I actually do anything next week. Comments, suggestions etc are welcome, though I don't have the time to write anything too complex, but do want to perform a valid test first time round if possible. I intend to run the tests on a Dual PIII 1GHz box, with 1Gb of Non-ECC RAM and a 20Gb (iirc) IDE disk. I will run on Windows 2000 Server with an NTFS filesystem, and again on Slackware Linux 8 with either ext3 or reiserfs (which is preferred?). I think that ext3 should be more reliable, or at least more mainstream - I have had bad experience with raiserfs not too long ago - a crash (similar to pull-the-plug) zeroed out completely unrelated files (files not recently written to, just read). As I don't use Slackware anymore (though I started usin linux on it in the dark ages before 1.0 kernel), I don't know if the issues are fixed there. The number of runs will be dictated by my workload next week, but I'd like to do at least 20 powerfails on each OS. Don't post if you happen to get better results for win32 ;) I have a worried lung-doctor (aka pulmonologist) friend who did some research/statistics on influence of smoking and he is desperate as his methodologically completely scientific studies ended up showing that smoking is healthy and not smoking is not ;), so he seems unable to publish any of his results in any respectable outlet ;( -- Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: The advantages to having the Win32 port be natively compatible with Visual Studio is that it already is (no toolset-porting work needed there), You're missing a couple of points here. First, the MS Visual whatever compiler can also be used with a makefile-driven build system. Second, the port as it stands isn't really compatible with anything except Jan's build instructions. There's a lot of work to be done before we get anything that builds out of the box in the 7.4 branch, and it's going to be a lot easier if we do it using the build system we already have and know. Absolutely right, I know that the build environment is more a mess than an environment. All I said is that we have a stable, working, native Win32 PostgreSQL 7.2.1 ... And I don't care if we use MingW, Borland, Cygwin or a big blend of it all, as long as the final result can be shipped binary under the BSD license. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
-Original Message- From: Jan Wieck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:47 AM To: Peter Eisentraut Cc: Justin Clift; Hannu Krosing; Bruce Momjian; Tom Lane; Postgres development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: The advantages to having the Win32 port be natively compatible with Visual Studio is that it already is (no toolset-porting work needed there), You're missing a couple of points here. First, the MS Visual whatever compiler can also be used with a makefile-driven build system. Second, the port as it stands isn't really compatible with anything except Jan's build instructions. There's a lot of work to be done before we get anything that builds out of the box in the 7.4 branch, and it's going to be a lot easier if we do it using the build system we already have and know. Absolutely right, I know that the build environment is more a mess than an environment. All I said is that we have a stable, working, native Win32 PostgreSQL 7.2.1 ... And I don't care if we use MingW, Borland, Cygwin or a big blend of it all, as long as the final result can be shipped binary under the BSD license. It would be very nice if we could drive the whole thing under Mingw. It has an environment that the current developers will be familiar with (bash, ksh, GCC, etc.) and probably some scripts could perform all the manual operations. Is there a place I can download the current patched tree? I might look at automating the process to some degree. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Bruce Momjian writes: I do have a problem with MKS toolkit, which is a commerical purchase. I would like to avoid reliance on that, though Jan said he needed their bash. I don't believe that quite yet. Jan said the regression test script crashes Cygwin's bash, but how come it has never crashed anyone else's Cygwin bash? -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: The advantages to having the Win32 port be natively compatible with Visual Studio is that it already is (no toolset-porting work needed there), You're missing a couple of points here. First, the MS Visual whatever compiler can also be used with a makefile-driven build system. Second, the port as it stands isn't really compatible with anything except Jan's build instructions. There's a lot of work to be done before we get anything that builds out of the box in the 7.4 branch, and it's going to be a lot easier if we do it using the build system we already have and know. Thanks Peter. Really didn't know that MS Visual things could work with makefile driven build systems, nor that the PeerDirect build process was so... unique. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Bruce Momjian kirjutas P, 26.01.2003 kell 05:07: Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. Indeed. I think the goal here is to have a port that *runs* in native Windows; but I see no reason not to require Cygwin for *building* it. Agreed. I don't mind Cygwin if we don't have licensing problems with distributing a Win32 binary that used Cygwin to build. I do have a problem with MKS toolkit, which is a commerical purchase. I would like to avoid reliance on that, though Jan said he needed their bash. IIRC mingw tools had win-native (cygwin-less) bash at http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/ -- Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Hannu Krosing wrote: Bruce Momjian kirjutas P, 26.01.2003 kell 05:07: Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. Indeed. I think the goal here is to have a port that *runs* in native Windows; but I see no reason not to require Cygwin for *building* it. Agreed. I don't mind Cygwin if we don't have licensing problems with distributing a Win32 binary that used Cygwin to build. I do have a problem with MKS toolkit, which is a commerical purchase. I would like to avoid reliance on that, though Jan said he needed their bash. IIRC mingw tools had win-native (cygwin-less) bash at http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/ Have been watching this ongoing conversation and am in two frames of mind about: + There are a lot of people on Win32 that are using MS Visual C or Visual Studio + There are a few fairly well established Win32 programming IDE's that are compatible with cygwin/mingw32 The advantages to having the Win32 port be natively compatible with Visual Studio is that it already is (no toolset-porting work needed there), but the disadvantage is that not just any Win32 user-with-an-interest can download it any try it out. So... that kind of excludes it somewhat (Universities/colleges might have a problem too). The advantages of having the Win32 port be natively compatible with gcc/cygwin/something is that once it's converted to that toolchain, it might be a lot less maintenance on us, as that's the toolset we use for the Unix builds. As a thought, the open source Dev-C++ IDE (Win32 and Linux) works with gcc/cygwin/mingw32 and is pretty popular. Just checked it's homepage on SourceForge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/) and it's download figures are pretty large. Since March 2002 (less than 1 year ago), it's been downloaded about 120,000,000 times. Wow. 120 Million downloads in less than 1 year. That's a pretty popular IDE (16th most popular project on SourceForge) Anyway, as a thought, my vote would be to make the Win32 port work in with our toolchain or very similar (cygwin/mingw32/etc) if possible, so we don't have to rely on people having Visual C. In developing countries too, it's going to be much easier for people to get a hold of things like Dev-C++ into the future as well. Hope this provides a useful set of thoughts. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. Indeed. I think the goal here is to have a port that *runs* in native Windows; but I see no reason not to require Cygwin for *building* it. Agreed. I don't mind Cygwin if we don't have licensing problems with distributing a Win32 binary that used Cygwin to build. I do have a problem with MKS toolkit, which is a commerical purchase. I would like to avoid reliance on that, though Jan said he needed their bash. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: Windows Build System was: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Curtis Faith wrote: tom lane writes: You think we should drive away our existing unix developers in the mere hope of attracting windows developers? Sorry, it isn't going to happen. Tom brings up a good point, that changes to support Windows should not add to the tasks of those who are doing the bulk of the work on Unixen. I don't think, however, that this necessarily means that having Windows developers use Cygwin is the right solution. We need to come up with a way to support Windows Visual C++ projects without adding work to the other developers. [...] IMHO, having a native port without native (read Visual C++) project support is a a huge missed opportunity. Perhaps. On the other hand, it may be much more work than it's worth. See below. The Visual C++ environment does not require dependency specification, it builds dependency trees by keeping track of the #include files used during preprocessing. Because of this, it should be possible to: A) Write a script/tool that reads the input files from Unix makefiles to build a list of the files in PostgreSQL and place them in appropriate projects. or alternately: B) A script/tool that recurses the directories and does the same sort of thing. There could be some sort of mapping between directories and projects in Visual C++. This may be necessary, but I seriously doubt it's anywhere close to sufficient. Right now, the Unix build relies on GNU autoconf to generate the Makefiles and many other files (even include files). And it doesn't just look for system-specific features and whatnot: it's the means by which features are selected at build time (such as SSL support, Kerberos support, which langauges to build runtime support for, etc.). To use it requires a Unix shell and a bunch of command line tools (e.g., sed). That's why Cygwin is required right now. Somehow *all* of that has to either be replaced, or someone has to decide which features will be built by all developers, or someone has to do all the legwork of making the Windows source tree roughly as configurable as the Unix one is. Doesn't sound like a terribly small task to me, though it might not be too bad for someone who has a lot of experience on both platforms. Since I don't have any real experience doing development under Windows, I'm not one to really say. But I thought you should at least know what you're up against. I do agree that being able to build and debug PostgreSQL using whichever tools are most commonly used amongst Windows developers would be desirable, perhaps very much so... -- Kevin Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: Windows Build System was: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches
On Wednesday 22 January 2003 20:47, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Firebird uses a set of Borland command line tools and Borland's make, which they give away as a free download. Even if you're compiling for Windows, the build process uses Borland's command line make. A batch build script copies makefiles from a single source directory and spreads them around the tree, then kicks off Borland's make. For things to work successfully, you must download Borland's tools and install them together with setting a few environment variables by hand. Borland command line tools are just a set of Unix utilities like grep, sed, make, (sh?) etc. Once upon a time they required cygwin utilities, but managed to purge themselves of cygwin with the Borland utilities. When they required cygwin, they also required some Borland utilities anyway. So they had a real reason for purging cygwin. If someone thinks the cygwin package is too big, we could require the Borland utilities instead :) I can't agree more ! Even if You do not want to hear my opinion here it is: The reason why I started to use PosgreSQL was: 1. Price 2. Most features that I used on MSSQL was there (except replication). If You require MS Visual C for building, it may increase the price. Borland C++ free version 5.5 you can download from : http://www.borland.com/products/downloads/download_cbuilder.html (I newer downloaded it from there, because I got it on some CD from our local computer news). What is included in the package you can see at : http://community.borland.com/article/0,1410,21205,00.html I can point to one more example of using bcc32 in multiplatform projects: http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/windows.html (They support also Microsoft Visual C++, but Windows version is not free !) And in the end, the developers for windows are not stupid, they can survive without MS projects, workspaces, fancy GUI e.t.c. (at least developers that You want to contribute to Postgres.) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: Windows Build System was: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
tom lane writes: You think we should drive away our existing unix developers in the mere hope of attracting windows developers? Sorry, it isn't going to happen. Tom brings up a good point, that changes to support Windows should not add to the tasks of those who are doing the bulk of the work on Unixen. I don't think, however, that this necessarily means that having Windows developers use Cygwin is the right solution. We need to come up with a way to support Windows Visual C++ projects without adding work to the other developers. I believe this is possible and have outlined some ways at the end, but first some rationale: One of the biggest benefits to Open Source projects is the ability to get in there and debug/fix problems using the source. PostgreSQL will lose out to lesser DBs if there is no easy way to build and DEBUG the source on Windows. This is true whether one admits that Windows sucks or not. A developer faced with the decision of choosing: A) a system that has a native Windows Visual C++ project that runs and compiles the release with no work. B) a system that requires learning a new way of building, new tools, new who knows what else. will always choose A unless there is a very compelling reason to choose B. There are plenty of reasons a clever (or even not so clever) Windows developer can use to justify using MySQL or another open source DB instead of PostgreSQL. It is a bit harder for the neophyte to find and believe the compelling reasons to use PostgreSQL. We need to make it easier to choose PostgreSQL not harder. Think about it from this perspective. How many of you would even think about working on a project if it required that you stop using your favorite toolset, gmake? EMACS? grep? shell scripts? etc.? Professional developers spend years honing their skills. Learning the proper use of the tools involved is a very big part of the process. IMHO, having a native port without native (read Visual C++) project support is a a huge missed opportunity. Further, lack of Windows project files implies that PostgreSQL just a Unix port and that the Windows support is immature, whether the code is well supported or not. POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS: The Visual C++ Workspaces and Projects files are actually text files that have a defined format. I don't think the format is published but it looks pretty easy to figure out. The Visual C++ environment does not require dependency specification, it builds dependency trees by keeping track of the #include files used during preprocessing. Because of this, it should be possible to: A) Write a script/tool that reads the input files from Unix makefiles to build a list of the files in PostgreSQL and place them in appropriate projects. or alternately: B) A script/tool that recurses the directories and does the same sort of thing. There could be some sort of mapping between directories and projects in Visual C++. In short, for most organizations being able to easily build using the source is a prerequisite for USING an open source database, not just for being part of the DEVELOPMENT effort. -Curtis P.S. I speak from personal experience, I would have been able to help out a lot more if I didn't have to spend 90% of my time working with PostgreSQL learning Unix (or relearning) and gnu tool issues. I don't personally mind so much because I wanted to learn it better anyway, but it has definitely limited my ability to help, so far. This is especially true since I don't have the opportunity to immerse myself in Unix/PostgreSQL for days at a time and suffer from significant switching costs. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
On Wednesday 22 January 2003 02:01, Dann Corbit wrote: Maybe because most of the machines in the world (by a titanic landslide) are Windoze boxes. On the desktop, yes. On the server, no. PostgreSQL is nore intended for a server, no? I can see the utility in having a development installation on a Win32 box, though. people to do it. Usually Open Source guys run *NIX Taken a poll lately? If Microsoft has its way there won't be any Open Source on Windows. Well, PostgreSQL might squeak by due to the BSD license, but other licenses aren't so fortunate, and GPL is anathema to Microsoft. -- Lamar Owen WGCR Internet Radio 1 Peter 4:11 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows Build System was: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 15:34, Curtis Faith wrote: tom lane writes: You think we should drive away our existing unix developers in the mere hope of attracting windows developers? Sorry, it isn't going to happen. Tom brings up a good point, that changes to support Windows should not add to the tasks of those who are doing the bulk of the work on Unixen. I don't think, however, that this necessarily means that having Windows developers use Cygwin is the right solution. We need to come up with a way to support Windows Visual C++ projects without adding work to the other developers. Does anyone know how MySQL and interbase/firebird do it ? POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS: The Visual C++ Workspaces and Projects files are actually text files that have a defined format. I don't think the format is published but it looks pretty easy to figure out. will probably change between releases (also I dont think you can easily compile C source on a C# compiler) ;/ -- Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: Windows Build System was: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches
Firebird uses a set of Borland command line tools and Borland's make, which they give away as a free download. Even if you're compiling for Windows, the build process uses Borland's command line make. A batch build script copies makefiles from a single source directory and spreads them around the tree, then kicks off Borland's make. For things to work successfully, you must download Borland's tools and install them together with setting a few environment variables by hand. Borland command line tools are just a set of Unix utilities like grep, sed, make, (sh?) etc. Once upon a time they required cygwin utilities, but managed to purge themselves of cygwin with the Borland utilities. When they required cygwin, they also required some Borland utilities anyway. So they had a real reason for purging cygwin. If someone thinks the cygwin package is too big, we could require the Borland utilities instead :) For my 2 cents, I would say the project files should be a separate download. Let someone build, test, and contribute them for particular versions of PostgreSQL. I would only try to make the Visual Studio files work on true releases. I would _not_ try to keep them updated in CVS or build them on the fly. W3.org's libwww does it something like this. bbaker ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] WIn32 port
Viacheslav N Tararin wrote: Hi. Exists in CVS Win32 port sources? Not yet. I sent patches for a native Win32 port of v7.2.1 out a few days ago. It's sure a couple weeks away before something against current CVS HEAD comes out of that. You can find the patches at http://www.janwieck.net/win32_port Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Jan Wieck writes: We focused on porting the programs. The goal was to have PostgreSQL running native on Win32 for a user. Having a nice and easy maintainable cross platform config, build and test environment for the developers is definitely something that still needs to be done (hint, hint). I have prepared a little patch that makes room for a native Windows build in our existing build framework. The Cygwin port would be renamed to cygwin and the new port takes over the win name. I have prepared the port specific template and makefile and extracted the dynaloader from your patch, so that you can at least run configure under Cygwin or MinGW successfully. Then I suggest we merge in the obvious parts of your patch, especially the renaming of various token constants, the shmem implementation, some library function reimplementations. In some cases I would like a bit more abstraction so that we don't have so many #ifdef's. (For example, we could have a IsAbsolutePath() that works magically for all platforms.) Then there are the hairy pieces. You add a bunch of command-line options that interact in puzzling way to communicate information about the fake fork. I think some of these are redundant, but it's hard to tell. The reimplementation of various shell scripts in C is something that would be a good idea on Unix as well for a number of reasons. Unfortunately, the ones you wrote have no chance of compiling under Unix, so we'll have to do it again. But that can happen in parallel to the other stuff. Two quick questions: Why PG_WIN32 and not just WIN32? Can the ConsoleApp thing be written in C so we don't have to get an extra C++ compiler for one file (for those who don't want to use the Microsoft toolchain)? -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Jan Wieck writes: I just submitted the patches for the native Win32 port of v7.2.1 on the patches mailing list. I'm concerned that you are adding all these *.dsp files for build process control. This is going to be a burden to maintain. Everytime someone changes an aspect of how a file is built the Windows port needs to be fixed. And since the tool that operates on these files is probably not freely available this will be difficult. I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. A lot of the porting aspects such as substitute implemenations of the C library functions could be handled nearly for free using the existing infrastructure and this whole patch would become much less intimidating. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Problem is, nobody builds packages on windows anyway. They just all download the binary a guy (usually literally one guy) built. So, let's just make sure that one guy has cygwin loaded on his machine and we'll be all set. /tougue in cheek Sorry, couldn't help myself...Seriously, it's a cultural thing, I wouldn't plan on a mighty hoard of windows database developers who are put off by loading cygwin. I do wonder what the requirements are for building commercial db's that run on unix and windows. I imagine they are similarly off-putting if it were an option. On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Al Sutton wrote: I would back keeping the windows specific files, and if anything moving the code away from using the UNIX like programs. My reasoning is that the more unix tools you use for compiling, the less likley you are to attract existing windows-only developers to work on the code. I see the Win32 patch as a great oppertunity to attract more eyes to the code, and don't want the oppertunity to be lost because of the build requirements. Al. - Original Message - From: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jan Wieck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Postgres development [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:40 PM Subject: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted Jan Wieck writes: I just submitted the patches for the native Win32 port of v7.2.1 on the patches mailing list. I'm concerned that you are adding all these *.dsp files for build process control. This is going to be a burden to maintain. Everytime someone changes an aspect of how a file is built the Windows port needs to be fixed. And since the tool that operates on these files is probably not freely available this will be difficult. I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. A lot of the porting aspects such as substitute implemenations of the C library functions could be handled nearly for free using the existing infrastructure and this whole patch would become much less intimidating. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. Indeed. I think the goal here is to have a port that *runs* in native Windows; but I see no reason not to require Cygwin for *building* it. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. Indeed. I think the goal here is to have a port that *runs* in native Windows; but I see no reason not to require Cygwin for *building* it. Agreed. We focused on porting the programs. The goal was to have PostgreSQL running native on Win32 for a user. Having a nice and easy maintainable cross platform config, build and test environment for the developers is definitely something that still needs to be done (hint, hint). Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
I would back keeping the windows specific files, and if anything moving the code away from using the UNIX like programs. My reasoning is that the more unix tools you use for compiling, the less likley you are to attract existing windows-only developers to work on the code. I see the Win32 patch as a great oppertunity to attract more eyes to the code, and don't want the oppertunity to be lost because of the build requirements. Al. - Original Message - From: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jan Wieck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Postgres development [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:40 PM Subject: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted Jan Wieck writes: I just submitted the patches for the native Win32 port of v7.2.1 on the patches mailing list. I'm concerned that you are adding all these *.dsp files for build process control. This is going to be a burden to maintain. Everytime someone changes an aspect of how a file is built the Windows port needs to be fixed. And since the tool that operates on these files is probably not freely available this will be difficult. I don't see a strong reason not to stick with good old configure; make; make install. You're already requiring various Unix-like tools, so you might as well require the full shell environment. A lot of the porting aspects such as substitute implemenations of the C library functions could be handled nearly for free using the existing infrastructure and this whole patch would become much less intimidating. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Al Sutton wrote: I would back keeping the windows specific files, and if anything moving the code away from using the UNIX like programs. My reasoning is that the more unix tools you use for compiling, the less likley you are to attract existing windows-only developers to work on the code. I see the Win32 patch as a great oppertunity to attract more eyes to the code, and don't want the oppertunity to be lost because of the build requirements. The problem is that when either side (unix developer or windows developer) wants to do anything that changes the build procedure, the other side breaks until someone makes the appropriate changes on the other build. Unless some committer is going to commit to looking over patches to dsp files and making makefile changes and vice versa or we were to require that anyone that wants to change build procedure must make both sets of changes, I'd think this is going to be a mess. And in the latter case, I think you're going to lose developers as well. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Al Sutton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would back keeping the windows specific files, and if anything moving the code away from using the UNIX like programs. My reasoning is that the more unix tools you use for compiling, the less likley you are to attract existing windows-only developers to work on the code. You think we should drive away our existing unix developers in the mere hope of attracting windows developers? Sorry, it isn't going to happen. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Tom Lane wrote: Al Sutton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would back keeping the windows specific files, and if anything moving the code away from using the UNIX like programs. My reasoning is that the more unix tools you use for compiling, the less likley you are to attract existing windows-only developers to work on the code. You think we should drive away our existing unix developers in the mere hope of attracting windows developers? Sorry, it isn't going to happen. A compromise is a solution that makes all sides equally unhappy ... so we should convert our build environment to ANT? Hey, just kidding ;-) Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Brian Bruns wrote: Problem is, nobody builds packages on windows anyway. They just all download the binary a guy (usually literally one guy) built. So, let's just make sure that one guy has cygwin loaded on his machine and we'll be all set. /tougue in cheek Correct. I wonder why we need a Windows port. I think it is more pain than sense. In case of Windows I'd rely on a binary distribution and a piece of documentation telling how the source can be built. I don't expect many people to do it. Usually Open Source guys run *NIX Sorry, couldn't help myself...Seriously, it's a cultural thing, I wouldn't plan on a mighty hoard of windows database developers who are put off by loading cygwin. I do wonder what the requirements are for building commercial db's that run on unix and windows. I imagine they are similarly off-putting if it were an option. In case of SAP DB they use a tool kit for building http://www.sapdb.org/develop/sap_db_development.htm It is truly painful to build it - even on UNIX (I haven't tried on Windows and I won't try in the future). As far as I have seen it throughs millions of compiler warnings. Regards, Hans -- *Cybertec Geschwinde u Schoenig* Ludo-Hartmannplatz 1/14, A-1160 Vienna, Austria Tel: +43/1/913 68 09; +43/664/233 90 75 www.postgresql.at http://www.postgresql.at, cluster.postgresql.at http://cluster.postgresql.at, www.cybertec.at http://www.cybertec.at, kernel.cybertec.at http://kernel.cybertec.at ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
-Original Message- From: Hans-Jürgen Schönig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:54 PM To: Brian Bruns; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted Brian Bruns wrote: Problem is, nobody builds packages on windows anyway. They just all download the binary a guy (usually literally one guy) built. So, let's just make sure that one guy has cygwin loaded on his machine and we'll be all set. /tougue in cheek Correct. I wonder why we need a Windows port. Maybe because most of the machines in the world (by a titanic landslide) are Windoze boxes. I think it is more pain than sense. In case of Windows I'd rely on a binary distribution and a piece of documentation telling how the source can be built. Sounds like a Windows port to me. How is this Windows build going to be created without a Windows port? I don't expect many people to do it. Usually Open Source guys run *NIX Taken a poll lately? Sorry, couldn't help myself...Seriously, it's a cultural thing, I wouldn't plan on a mighty hoard of windows database developers who are put off by loading cygwin. I do wonder what the requirements are for building commercial db's that run on unix and windows. I imagine they are similarly off-putting if it were an option. In case of SAP DB they use a tool kit for building http://www.sapdb.org/develop/sap_db_development.htm It is truly painful to build it - even on UNIX (I haven't tried on Windows and I won't try in the future). As far as I have seen it throughs millions of compiler warnings. It was simple to build. And if you don't want to build it, they have binary distributions. I have SAP/DB running on this machine (along with SQL*Server, PostgreSQL, DB/2, Oracle, Firebird and a few others) SAP DB is or can be used for SAP (basically, it's a port of Adabas). That makes it kind of important, for obvious reasons. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] Win32 port patches submitted
Hi, I just submitted the patches for the native Win32 port of v7.2.1 on the patches mailing list. If you are not subscribed to the patches list you can download them from http://www.janwieck.net/win32_port Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] Win32 port
Hi. Where I can download sources of win32 port? Can I help for win32 port? Thanks. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Win32 port (native)
Okay, I have finally extracted out a patch that applied to a 7.2.1 tree get's me something that compiles and passes all regression tests on RedHat Linux and Windows 2000. To clearify upfront, even if the build process of this port uses a few cygwin tools, the final executables and libraries do not depend on cygwin. I need to write up the 42 steps how to build. For those who want to be prepared, you'll need a unix system to patch, a win32 environment with VC++ 6.0, Tcl, bison*, flex*, sed* and touch* (*=from cygwin). To run the regression tests, one would need an MKS toolkit as it crashes the cygwin bash ... we didn't bother with those minor issues. I will post 2 patches later (meaning, probably tomorrow or latest Sunday) to the patches list. One will be all the changes to existing files (about 11,500 lines context diff), one will be the new files added. As a PostgreSQL coreteam member I want to thank my employer, the PeerDirect Corporation, for contributing this work, which IMHO is an important step for PostgreSQL. What we need from here are some ideas how this port can be lifted up to the current 7.4 development tree. There are some TODO items scattered throughout the code. But, it compiles and works, so it's a good point to start from I think. Looking at the demand for a native Win32 port I would expect some people willing to take it from there. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port (native)
Jan Wieck wrote: As a PostgreSQL coreteam member I want to thank my employer, the PeerDirect Corporation, for contributing this work, which IMHO is an important step for PostgreSQL. Yes, a very important step. A big thank you to PeerDirect. What we need from here are some ideas how this port can be lifted up to the current 7.4 development tree. There are some TODO items scattered throughout the code. But, it compiles and works, so it's a good point to start from I think. Looking at the demand for a native Win32 port I would expect some people willing to take it from there. I have a request for this. Would it be possible to give priority to the client utilities? Apart from possibly helping in the rest of the port by facilitating dumping/restoring/testing, it would also enable those working on Windows clients with unix backends to work more easily now already. Personally, I am now using the psql that came with the beta4 of the Win32 port for everything. Even when connecting to a 7.3 server the problems (no schema support etc.) are far outweighted by the advantages of having a lightweight (just libpq.dll + psql.exe, no cygwin, no installation) client tool. But it would be nice if schema support etc. was available and with the exception of pg_dump I am personally not very concerned about using beta client utilities (while I would have reservations about using a beta database server). Jochem ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port (native)
Jochem van Dieten wrote: everything. Even when connecting to a 7.3 server the problems (no schema support etc.) are far outweighted by the advantages of having a lightweight (just libpq.dll + psql.exe, no cygwin, no installation) client tool. But it would be nice if schema support etc. was available You can already compile libpq and psql on win32; see: http://www.us.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/7.3/postgres/install-win32.html Joe ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Jan is working on the port and should be posting it to the patches list in the next few days. After that, we will all look over the patch, port it from 7.2.1 to CVS HEAD, and make improvements before applying to CVS HEAD. Stay subscribed to hackers and you will see all the activity as soon as it starts. Also, Patrick is working on reviewing PITR so that is moving ahead as well. --- Viacheslav N Tararin wrote: Hi. Where I can download sources of win32 port? Can I help for win32 port? Thanks. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port (native)
My idea was to go through the patch and break it out into the items it addresses: fork/exec loop rename test handle \r in COPY copydir for cp -r backslash tests rmdir not recursive for rm -r shared memory could map to new address in exec child compatibility defines file path separators root directory rename atomicity spinlock changes str[r]chr timeval for psql DWORD in help.c initdb etc. Once it is split out, each piece can be analyzed to make sure we are doing things the right way, then applied in parts. --- Jan Wieck wrote: Okay, I have finally extracted out a patch that applied to a 7.2.1 tree get's me something that compiles and passes all regression tests on RedHat Linux and Windows 2000. To clearify upfront, even if the build process of this port uses a few cygwin tools, the final executables and libraries do not depend on cygwin. I need to write up the 42 steps how to build. For those who want to be prepared, you'll need a unix system to patch, a win32 environment with VC++ 6.0, Tcl, bison*, flex*, sed* and touch* (*=from cygwin). To run the regression tests, one would need an MKS toolkit as it crashes the cygwin bash ... we didn't bother with those minor issues. I will post 2 patches later (meaning, probably tomorrow or latest Sunday) to the patches list. One will be all the changes to existing files (about 11,500 lines context diff), one will be the new files added. As a PostgreSQL coreteam member I want to thank my employer, the PeerDirect Corporation, for contributing this work, which IMHO is an important step for PostgreSQL. What we need from here are some ideas how this port can be lifted up to the current 7.4 development tree. There are some TODO items scattered throughout the code. But, it compiles and works, so it's a good point to start from I think. Looking at the demand for a native Win32 port I would expect some people willing to take it from there. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Hi, all. I just wanted to give you an update on where my company (PeerDirect) is with regards to our native Windows port. We are planning on contributing the code for the native port sometime next month (in December). We would have liked to contribute it earlier, but our work schedules here didn't allow it. The state of the port is that it passes all postgres regression tests. It's been in BETA since early August with about 27 beta customers. The beta customers came from a post made to the cygwin mailing list (http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-cygwin/2002-08/msg00012.php). The BETA has proven successful and several problems were found and fixed. At this point you are welcome to run the latest version of this BETA. There is no installer, but there is a setenv.bat script to help setup the environment. The beta can be downloaded at: ftp://209.61.187.152/postgres/postgres_beta4.zip This version has its own catalog version which is slightly different than 7.2.1, so you'll need to do a pg_dump and pg_restore. If you find any issues, please don't mail me directly. Instead, please send emails to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Several people monitor this address and the issue will get resolved more quickly. There is still some cleanup work to do, such as migrating from 7.2.1 to 7.4, but my company is committed to contributing this port to the community by the end of the year. Regards, Katie Ward Principal Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
-Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman;candle.pha.pa.us] Sent: 08 November 2002 04:54 To: Steve Howe Cc: Katie Ward; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port OK, Steve's vote is enough to indicate that most want to wait for PeerDirect's version before moving forward with the Win32 port. +1 I've also been testing this for a while now - I agree with Steve, it works *very* well. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
I don't know if our code compiles with Mingw. I've never tried it. Right now, all files are built with MS VC++ 6.0 because that's the environment that I'm used to, so it's where I can code/debug the fastest. Katie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:pgsql-hackers-owner;postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Steve Howe Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:43 AM To: Katie Ward Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port Hello Katie, Thursday, November 7, 2002, 7:08:20 PM, you wrote: I have tried this version and it seems to work well on preliminary tests. Bruce, this probably is a good start for the port and I wonder if it worths having all that patching trouble you mentioned, specially when they offered to do it... I think you probably have a lot of work to do on other areas too... To Katie: does it compile with Mingw too ? - Best regards, Steve Howe mailto:howe;carcass.dhs.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman;candle.pha.pa.us] Sent: 08 November 2002 04:54 To: Steve Howe Cc: Katie Ward; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port OK, Steve's vote is enough to indicate that most want to wait for PeerDirect's version before moving forward with the Win32 port. +1 I've also been testing this for a while now - I agree with Steve, it works *very* well. I may as well give you my logic on this: I don't like waiting for a feature unless there is a promised deliver date. Now that we have that, I am fine waiting. I hope I didn't sound too unappreciative of the great contribution PeerDirect is going to make by donating the Win32 port. It will be a great leap forward for PostgreSQL by increasing our user base. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
-Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman;candle.pha.pa.us] Sent: 08 November 2002 16:10 To: Dave Page Cc: Steve Howe; Katie Ward; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port I hope I didn't sound too unappreciative of the great contribution PeerDirect is going to make by donating the Win32 port. It will be a great leap forward for PostgreSQL by increasing our user base. Purely in terms of potential to increase our userbase I think this is probably the most important feature (for want of a better term) that will have ever been added to PostgreSQL. (and please don't misinterpret that as me saying that the other great features people have added are not as important) Regards Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Hi, all. I just wanted to give you an update on where my company (PeerDirect) is with regards to our native Windows port. We are planning on contributing the code for the native port sometime next month (in December). We would have liked to contribute it earlier, but our work schedules here didn't allow it. The state of the port is that it passes all postgres regression tests. It's been in BETA since early August with about 27 beta customers. The beta customers came from a post made to the cygwin mailing list (http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-cygwin/2002-08/msg00012.php). The BETA has proven successful and several problems were found and fixed. At this point you are welcome to run the latest version of this BETA. There is no installer, but there is a setenv.bat script to help setup the environment. The beta can be downloaded at: ftp://209.61.187.152/postgres/postgres_beta4.zip This version has its own catalog version which is slightly different than 7.2.1, so you'll need to do a pg_dump and pg_restore. If you find any issues, please don't mail me directly. Instead, please send emails to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Several people monitor this address and the issue will get resolved more quickly. There is still some cleanup work to do, such as migrating from 7.2.1 to 7.4, but my company is committed to contributing this port to the community by the end of the year. Regards, Katie Ward Principal Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Hello Katie, Thursday, November 7, 2002, 7:08:20 PM, you wrote: KW Hi, all. KW I just wanted to give you an update on where my company (PeerDirect) is with KW regards to our native Windows port. KW We are planning on contributing the code for the native port sometime next KW month (in December). We would have liked to contribute it earlier, but our KW work schedules here didn't allow it. KW The state of the port is that it passes all postgres regression tests. It's KW been in BETA since early August with about 27 beta customers. The beta KW customers came from a post made to the cygwin mailing list KW (http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-cygwin/2002-08/msg00012.php). The KW BETA has proven successful and several problems were found and fixed. KW At this point you are welcome to run the latest version of this BETA. There KW is no installer, but there is a setenv.bat script to help setup the KW environment. The beta can be downloaded at: KW ftp://209.61.187.152/postgres/postgres_beta4.zip KW This version has its own catalog version which is slightly different than KW 7.2.1, so you'll need to do a pg_dump and pg_restore. If you find any KW issues, please don't mail me directly. Instead, please send emails to KW [EMAIL PROTECTED] Several people monitor this address and the KW issue will get resolved more quickly. KW There is still some cleanup work to do, such as migrating from 7.2.1 to 7.4, KW but my company is committed to contributing this port to the community by KW the end of the year. I have tried this version and it seems to work well on preliminary tests. Bruce, this probably is a good start for the port and I wonder if it worths having all that patching trouble you mentioned, specially when they offered to do it... I think you probably have a lot of work to do on other areas too... To Katie: does it compile with Mingw too ? - Best regards, Steve Howe mailto:howe;carcass.dhs.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Hannu Krosing wrote: Bruce Momjian kirjutas K, 06.11.2002 kell 08:19: I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged patch that can be applied to 7.4. Great! Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to the main CVS tree for 7.4. What C compiler will you be working with ? I hope that at least MingW should be supported ? Actually, I will be doing all the coding on BSD/OS. I am more merging patches than actual coding, though. This will guarantee that the patches will not affect the Unix platforms. I will need help from others to check the various Win32 compilers. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Bruce Momjian wrote: Hannu Krosing wrote: Bruce Momjian kirjutas K, 06.11.2002 kell 08:19: I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged patch that can be applied to 7.4. Great! Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to the main CVS tree for 7.4. What C compiler will you be working with ? I hope that at least MingW should be supported ? Actually, I will be doing all the coding on BSD/OS. I am more merging patches than actual coding, though. This will guarantee that the patches will not affect the Unix platforms. I will need help from others to check the various Win32 compilers. I was wondering about that. How will you be able to verify that you got a Win32 port that at least compiles, if you're merging two different Win32 approaches into the code on BSD? I don't expect that to work at all. To Hannu: the Windows port we did here depends on MS VC++ features like the ability to specify in the project to substitute header files. I don't know much about MingW and if you can do things like that with it. Our port is a real 100% pure Win32 one without any portability crap like cygwin. I don't think that's a big problem, since the binary results of a MS VC compile are redistributable AFAIK. And you'd need VC++ only if you want to do backend development under Windows, and who want's that (Katie for sure, but that's another story ;-P ) Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Jan Wieck wrote: Actually, I will be doing all the coding on BSD/OS. I am more merging patches than actual coding, though. This will guarantee that the patches will not affect the Unix platforms. I will need help from others to check the various Win32 compilers. I was wondering about that. How will you be able to verify that you got a Win32 port that at least compiles, if you're merging two different Win32 approaches into the code on BSD? I don't expect that to work at all. It doesn't have to work on Win32 day 1. I will do all the work I can. I will also be buying a machine that can compile this but right now I want to get most of it in. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Bruce Momjian wrote: Jan Wieck wrote: Actually, I will be doing all the coding on BSD/OS. I am more merging patches than actual coding, though. This will guarantee that the patches will not affect the Unix platforms. I will need help from others to check the various Win32 compilers. I was wondering about that. How will you be able to verify that you got a Win32 port that at least compiles, if you're merging two different Win32 approaches into the code on BSD? I don't expect that to work at all. It doesn't have to work on Win32 day 1. I will do all the work I can. I will also be buying a machine that can compile this but right now I want to get most of it in. Bruce, I can compile on VC++ (VS .Net) for you. Let me know when you're ready with a patch. Joe ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Joe Conway wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: Jan Wieck wrote: Actually, I will be doing all the coding on BSD/OS. I am more merging patches than actual coding, though. This will guarantee that the patches will not affect the Unix platforms. I will need help from others to check the various Win32 compilers. I was wondering about that. How will you be able to verify that you got a Win32 port that at least compiles, if you're merging two different Win32 approaches into the code on BSD? I don't expect that to work at all. It doesn't have to work on Win32 day 1. I will do all the work I can. I will also be buying a machine that can compile this but right now I want to get most of it in. Bruce, I can compile on VC++ (VS .Net) for you. Let me know when you're ready with a patch. Thanks. That will be a help. In fact, just running it through after I make few commits should fix things up. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Jan Wieck writes: To Hannu: the Windows port we did here depends on MS VC++ features like the ability to specify in the project to substitute header files. I don't know much about MingW and if you can do things like that with it. Before long someone will port the Windows port to MinGW, so we should resist attempts to use compiler-specific features in the same way that we tend not to use vendors specific features in other ports. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Jan Wieck writes: To Hannu: the Windows port we did here depends on MS VC++ features like the ability to specify in the project to substitute header files. I don't know much about MingW and if you can do things like that with it. Before long someone will port the Windows port to MinGW, so we should resist attempts to use compiler-specific features in the same way that we tend not to use vendors specific features in other ports. Absolutely. With the present push by over 30 governments of countries, and other large institutions around the world for adopting Open Source software in significant ways, we'd be kind of short-sighted to do things in a way that mostly limits people to using M$ products. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
-Original Message- From: Joe Conway [mailto:mail;joeconway.com] Sent: 06 November 2002 16:16 To: Bruce Momjian Cc: Jan Wieck; Hannu Krosing; PostgreSQL-development; Tatsuo Ishii Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port Bruce, I can compile on VC++ (VS .Net) for you. Let me know when you're ready with a patch. Joe I can also help with VC++ 6, and .NET. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Here is a list of patch areas that I will address with the Win32 port: fork/exec loop rename test handle \r in COPY copydir for cp -r backslash tests rmdir not recursive for rm -r shared memory could map to new address in exec child compatibility defines file path separators root directory rename atomicity spinlock changes str[r]chr timeval for psql DWORD in help.c initdb -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Bruce Momjian wrote: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Jan Wieck writes: To Hannu: the Windows port we did here depends on MS VC++ features like the ability to specify in the project to substitute header files. I don't know much about MingW and if you can do things like that with it. Before long someone will port the Windows port to MinGW, so we should resist attempts to use compiler-specific features in the same way that we tend not to use vendors specific features in other ports. Agreed. I will make as clean a patch as possible. I think it is doable. The thing with this particular feature was not to touch almost every source file in the whole tree. The headers to #include in a clean Win32 world are totally different from what you #include in Unix. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Bruce Momjian wrote: Here is a list of patch areas that I will address with the Win32 port: fork/exec loop rename test handle \r in COPY copydir for cp -r backslash tests rmdir not recursive for rm -r shared memory could map to new address in exec child That's actually not done in the port yet. Thomas once overhauled the hashtable code and changed it from using offsets to pointers. This code is used for shared hashtables, so the mapping has to be done at a fixed address for now. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Jan Wieck wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: Here is a list of patch areas that I will address with the Win32 port: fork/exec loop rename test handle \r in COPY copydir for cp -r backslash tests rmdir not recursive for rm -r shared memory could map to new address in exec child That's actually not done in the port yet. Thomas once overhauled the hashtable code and changed it from using offsets to pointers. This code is used for shared hashtables, so the mapping has to be done at a fixed address for now. OK, can we guarantee that fixed mapping will happen? -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Jan Wieck wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Jan Wieck writes: To Hannu: the Windows port we did here depends on MS VC++ features like the ability to specify in the project to substitute header files. I don't know much about MingW and if you can do things like that with it. Before long someone will port the Windows port to MinGW, so we should resist attempts to use compiler-specific features in the same way that we tend not to use vendors specific features in other ports. Agreed. I will make as clean a patch as possible. I think it is doable. The thing with this particular feature was not to touch almost every source file in the whole tree. The headers to #include in a clean Win32 world are totally different from what you #include in Unix. OK, I am looking at the SRA patch and I don't see a huge number of #include changes. Can you give an example? Also, isn't there a way to do this in a more centralized way, perhaps in c.h? -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Hello Bruce, Wednesday, November 6, 2002, 3:19:35 AM, you wrote: BM I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to BM Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged BM patch that can be applied to 7.4. BM Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I BM will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like BM fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to BM the main CVS tree for 7.4. Just wondering, what compiler are they using ? Will it compile using Mingw ? - Best regards, Steve Howe mailto:howe;carcass.dhs.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Steve Howe wrote: Hello Bruce, Wednesday, November 6, 2002, 3:19:35 AM, you wrote: BM I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to BM Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged BM patch that can be applied to 7.4. BM Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I BM will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like BM fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to BM the main CVS tree for 7.4. Just wondering, what compiler are they using ? Will it compile using Mingw ? I think the two projects are using MS C++, but it would be nice for Mingw to work too. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Hello Bruce, Wednesday, November 6, 2002, 8:33:32 PM, you wrote: BM Steve Howe wrote: Hello Bruce, Wednesday, November 6, 2002, 3:19:35 AM, you wrote: BM I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to BM Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged BM patch that can be applied to 7.4. BM Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I BM will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like BM fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to BM the main CVS tree for 7.4. Just wondering, what compiler are they using ? Will it compile using Mingw ? BM I think the two projects are using MS C++, but it would be nice for BM Mingw to work too. Or even (free) Borland C++ compiler, but I would be glad just to see it working with Mingw... It just makes no sense a free project like PostgreSQL to be compiled only with a commercial compiler. - Best regards, Steve Howe mailto:howe;carcass.dhs.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
pgman wrote: I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged patch that can be applied to 7.4. Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to the main CVS tree for 7.4. I have talked to Jan, and PeerDirect wants to submit a complete working Win32 patch, rather than the piece-by-piece merged patch I was working on. They also have a newer version than the one they shared with me. They realize that their patch is very unlikely to be accepted in whole, but rather merged in and reworked to fit into our code cleanly. They also realize 7.4 will be a moving target as people make changes to CVS. Part of my goal was to get this in quickly while CVS was relatively stable, particularly hitting the portability issues that are spread throughout the code, and dealing with sticky issues like rename(). I believe they are in their right to determine how the patch is released to the community, so it seems we either have to wait for them to complete their mega-patch, which could take one month or more, or start working on a patch ourselves. Let me map out the calendar. I think we are very close on the point-in-time recovery patch. I am hoping to get that in during November, and I _was_ hoping for the Win32 port too, so we could have another two months of development, then start beta for 7.4. As it stands now, we could be adding Win32 at the end of December, pushing back 7.4. Comments? -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 08:20:16PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: Let me map out the calendar. I think we are very close on the point-in-time recovery patch. I am hoping to get that in during November, and I _was_ hoping for the Win32 port too, so we could have another two months of development, then start beta for 7.4. As it stands now, we could be adding Win32 at the end of December, pushing back 7.4. What about patches that are in the pgpatches2 list? Are you going to merge that right now, or wait for each item to be reviewed? -- Alvaro Herrera (alvherre[a]dcc.uchile.cl) Pido que me den el Nobel por razones humanitarias (Nicanor Parra) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Alvaro Herrera wrote: On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 08:20:16PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: Let me map out the calendar. I think we are very close on the point-in-time recovery patch. I am hoping to get that in during November, and I _was_ hoping for the Win32 port too, so we could have another two months of development, then start beta for 7.4. As it stands now, we could be adding Win32 at the end of December, pushing back 7.4. What about patches that are in the pgpatches2 list? Are you going to merge that right now, or wait for each item to be reviewed? Good question. Let's say I will apply them in two days unless someone objects to them. They all look pretty safe to me. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have talked to Jan, and PeerDirect wants to submit a complete working Win32 patch, rather than the piece-by-piece merged patch I was working on. Is there a reason you're doing the actual merging with CVS? ISTM it might be more straight-forward to just wait for PeerDirect to get their code in a state that can be committed straight to CVS, using the normal code review process. That would leave the ball in PeerDirect's code, as far as staying current with any changes made to CVS in the interim. BTW, what about the SRA stuff? i.e. could we begin work on a native Win32 port using their work, while at the same time waiting for PeerDirect? Let me map out the calendar. I think we are very close on the point-in-time recovery patch. I am hoping to get that in during November, and I _was_ hoping for the Win32 port too, so we could have another two months of development, then start beta for 7.4. As it stands now, we could be adding Win32 at the end of December, pushing back 7.4. You've mentioned the quickly release 7.4 plan before, but I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning behind it. PITR and Win32, while certainly important features, are not critical enough that they justify an entire release for themselves, IMHO. Plus, there's a definate downside to releasing quickly: users will still need to 'initdb' between major releases, no matter how quickly they are put out. It's also possible that a faster release cycle would mean a more rushed, less stable development process (and therefore more bugs). Cheers, Neil -- Neil Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] || PGP Key ID: DB3C29FC ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Neil Conway wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have talked to Jan, and PeerDirect wants to submit a complete working Win32 patch, rather than the piece-by-piece merged patch I was working on. Is there a reason you're doing the actual merging with CVS? ISTM it might be more straight-forward to just wait for PeerDirect to get their code in a state that can be committed straight to CVS, using the normal code review process. That would leave the ball in PeerDirect's code, as far as staying current with any changes made to CVS in the interim. Clearly, it is better if Jan/PeerDirect does the job. The question is when it will happen. I figured if I got it started, they could then get involved when they have time. I recommend the port be submitted in pieces, meaning make one patch dealing with path names, another for initdb, etc. However, they want to do the work, and hopefully it will be done in a reasonable time, so I certainly can wait. BTW, what about the SRA stuff? i.e. could we begin work on a native Win32 port using their work, while at the same time waiting for PeerDirect? Yes, certainly I can. The problem there is that once I attack various areas, Jan's work becomes harder because he has to take his version and merge in into my changes. Let me map out the calendar. I think we are very close on the point-in-time recovery patch. I am hoping to get that in during November, and I _was_ hoping for the Win32 port too, so we could have another two months of development, then start beta for 7.4. As it stands now, we could be adding Win32 at the end of December, pushing back 7.4. You've mentioned the quickly release 7.4 plan before, but I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning behind it. PITR and Win32, while certainly important features, are not critical enough that they justify an entire release for themselves, IMHO. Plus, there's a definate downside to releasing quickly: users will still need to 'initdb' between major releases, no matter how quickly they are put out. It's also possible that a faster release cycle would mean a more rushed, less stable development process (and therefore more bugs). I have thrown out the idea and some felt that if we could get PITR and Win32, that would be enough for a release, even if we could get it done in a month or two. However, I see your point that releasing too often causes too many initdb's. What do others want, a regular 4-6 month cycle or a shorter one? -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Bruce Momjian wrote: snip What do others want, a regular 4-6 month cycle or a shorter one? Whilst having a regular 4-6 month cycle (er... when was the last time THAT happened?) is alright, we should get the *Windows* native version out to the world ASAP. This (and secondly PITR) will greatly enhance the number of users we have. It's important to do this because companies and governments are looking to Open Source software in serious ways *now* so we need to be in place to meet that need as it starts to kick in. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Justin Clift [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Whilst having a regular 4-6 month cycle (er... when was the last time THAT happened?) is alright, we should get the *Windows* native version out to the world ASAP. We don't have a Windows native version, and it sounds like it'll be awhile before we have an offered set of patches to review. I think making any release schedule plans on the basis of (ahem) vaporware patches is a bit foolhardy. The quick 7.4 plan was based on the assumption that PITR and Windows patches would both be available almost immediately. If that doesn't come to pass then I see no reason not to go with a normal-length development cycle. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Hello Bruce, Thursday, November 7, 2002, 12:56:57 AM, you wrote: BM I have thrown out the idea and some felt that if we could get PITR and BM Win32, that would be enough for a release, even if we could get it done BM in a month or two. BM However, I see your point that releasing too often causes too many BM initdb's. BM What do others want, a regular 4-6 month cycle or a shorter one? The initdb will be needed, no matter the release time is a month or six, right ? There is no point in holding technology that is ready. Those who don't need the release, can wait for the next one and avoid the initdb. Also, as a snapshot, the Win32 version won't get properly tested as it would be as a regular release, specially because most of the developers here work on UNIX. The best field testing would be deploying a regular release to the hundreds of Win32 users that wait for years for the Win32 version... ... just my thoughts, of course. - Best regards, Steve Howe mailto:howe;carcass.dhs.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] Win32 port
I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged patch that can be applied to 7.4. Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to the main CVS tree for 7.4. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Bruce Momjian wrote: I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged patch that can be applied to 7.4. Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to the main CVS tree for 7.4. Whoo Hooo! :-) + Justin -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
On Wed, 2002-11-06 at 01:32, Justin Clift wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged patch that can be applied to 7.4. Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to the main CVS tree for 7.4. Whoo Hooo! :-) + Justin Couldn't agree with Justin more. Even though I won't use it in production, We have developers that use postgres on their windows laptops for development and cygwin just doesn't cut it. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 port
Bruce Momjian kirjutas K, 06.11.2002 kell 08:19: I have copies of Peer Direct's (Jan's company) port of PostgreSQL to Win32, and SRA's port to Win32, and permission to generate a merged patch that can be applied to 7.4. Great! Now that 7.3 is almost complete, I am going to start work on that. I will post patches that deal with specific portability issues, like fork/exec and path separator handling, and once reviewed, apply them to the main CVS tree for 7.4. What C compiler will you be working with ? I hope that at least MingW should be supported ? - Hannu ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] Win32 port
I have added the recent threads discussing a Win32 port to CVS TODO.detail, and have added an item on the TODO list: * Create native Win32 port [win32] -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
