Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote: > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 08:20:02AM -0500, Robert Haas wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Simon Riggs wrote: >> > On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Fujii Masao wrote: >> > >> >> One thing I would like to ask is that why you think walreceiver is more >> >> appropriate for writing XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record than startup >> >> process. I was thinking the opposite, because if we do so, we might be >> >> able to skip the end-of-recovery checkpoint even in file-based >> >> log-shipping >> >> case. >> > >> > Right now, WALReceiver has one code path/use case. >> > >> > Startup has so many, its much harder to know whether we'll screw up one of >> > them. >> > >> > If we can add it in either place then I choose the simplest, most >> > relevant place. If the code is the same, we can move it around later. >> > >> > Let me write the code and then we can think some more. >> >> Are we still considering trying to do this for 9.2? Seems it's been >> over a month without a new patch, and it's not entirely clear that we >> know what the design should be. > > Did this get completed? No, not yet. Regards, -- Fujii Masao -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 08:20:02AM -0500, Robert Haas wrote: > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Simon Riggs wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Fujii Masao wrote: > > > >> One thing I would like to ask is that why you think walreceiver is more > >> appropriate for writing XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record than startup > >> process. I was thinking the opposite, because if we do so, we might be > >> able to skip the end-of-recovery checkpoint even in file-based log-shipping > >> case. > > > > Right now, WALReceiver has one code path/use case. > > > > Startup has so many, its much harder to know whether we'll screw up one of > > them. > > > > If we can add it in either place then I choose the simplest, most > > relevant place. If the code is the same, we can move it around later. > > > > Let me write the code and then we can think some more. > > Are we still considering trying to do this for 9.2? Seems it's been > over a month without a new patch, and it's not entirely clear that we > know what the design should be. Did this get completed? -- Bruce Momjian http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + It's impossible for everything to be true. + -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Robert Haas wrote: > >> Are we still considering trying to do this for 9.2? Seems it's been >> over a month without a new patch, and it's not entirely clear that we >> know what the design should be. > > It's important, but not ready. Thanks for the update. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Robert Haas wrote: > Are we still considering trying to do this for 9.2? Seems it's been > over a month without a new patch, and it's not entirely clear that we > know what the design should be. It's important, but not ready. -- Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Simon Riggs wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Fujii Masao wrote: > >> One thing I would like to ask is that why you think walreceiver is more >> appropriate for writing XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record than startup >> process. I was thinking the opposite, because if we do so, we might be >> able to skip the end-of-recovery checkpoint even in file-based log-shipping >> case. > > Right now, WALReceiver has one code path/use case. > > Startup has so many, its much harder to know whether we'll screw up one of > them. > > If we can add it in either place then I choose the simplest, most > relevant place. If the code is the same, we can move it around later. > > Let me write the code and then we can think some more. Are we still considering trying to do this for 9.2? Seems it's been over a month without a new patch, and it's not entirely clear that we know what the design should be. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Fujii Masao wrote: > One thing I would like to ask is that why you think walreceiver is more > appropriate for writing XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record than startup > process. I was thinking the opposite, because if we do so, we might be > able to skip the end-of-recovery checkpoint even in file-based log-shipping > case. Right now, WALReceiver has one code path/use case. Startup has so many, its much harder to know whether we'll screw up one of them. If we can add it in either place then I choose the simplest, most relevant place. If the code is the same, we can move it around later. Let me write the code and then we can think some more. -- Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Simon Riggs wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Fujii Masao wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: >>> When I say skip the shutdown checkpoint, I mean remove it from the critical path of required actions at the end of recovery. We can still have a normal checkpoint kicked off at that time, but that no longer needs to be on the critical path. Any problems foreseen? If not, looks like a quick patch. >>> >>> Patch attached for discussion/review. >> >> This feature is what I want, and very helpful to shorten the failover time in >> streaming replication. >> >> Here are the review comments. Though I've not checked enough whether >> this feature works fine in all recovery patterns yet. >> >> LocalSetXLogInsertAllowed() must be called before LogEndOfRecovery(). >> LocalXLogInsertAllowed must be set to -1 after LogEndOfRecovery(). >> >> XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record is written to the WAL file with new >> assigned timeline ID. But it must be written to the WAL file with old one. >> Otherwise, when re-entering a recovery after failover, we cannot find >> XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record at all. >> >> Before XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record is written, >> RmgrTable[rmid].rm_cleanup() might write WAL records. They also >> should be written to the WAL file with old timeline ID. >> >> When recovery target is specified, we cannot write new WAL to the file >> with old timeline because which means that valid WAL records in it are >> overwritten with new WAL. So when recovery target is specified, >> ISTM that we cannot skip end of recovery checkpoint. Or we might need >> to save all information about timelines in the database cluster instead >> of writing XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record, and use it when re-entering >> a recovery. >> >> LogEndOfRecovery() seems to need to call XLogFlush(). Otherwise, >> what if the server crashes after new timeline history file is created and >> recovery.conf is removed, but before XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record >> has not been flushed to the disk yet? >> >> During recovery, when we replay XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record, we >> should close the currently-opened WAL file and read the WAL file with >> the timeline which XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record indicates. >> Otherwise, when re-entering a recovery with old timeline, we cannot >> reach new timeline. > > > > OK, some bad things there, thanks for the insightful comments. > > > > I think you're right that we can't skip the checkpoint if xlog_cleanup > writes WAL records, since that implies at least one and maybe more > blocks have changed and need to be flushed. That can be improved upon, > but not now in 9.2.Cleanup WAL is written in either the old or the new > timeline, depending upon whether we increment it. So we don't need to > change anything there, IMHO. > > The big problem is how we handle crash recovery after we startup > without a checkpoint. No quick fixes there. > > So let me rethink this: The idea was that we can skip the checkpoint > if we promote to normal running during streaming replication. > > WALReceiver has been writing to WAL files, so can write more data > without all of the problems noted. Rather than write the > XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record via XLogInsert we should write that **from > the WALreceiver** as a dummy record by direct injection into the WAL > stream. So the Startup process sees a WAL record that looks like it > was written by the primary saying "promote yourself", although it was > actually written locally by WALreceiver when requested to shutdown. > That doesn't damage anything because we know we've received all the > WAL there is. Most importantly we don't need to change any of the > logic in a way that endangers the other code paths at end of recovery. > > Writing the record in that way means we would need to calculate the > new tli slightly earlier, so we can input the correct value into the > record. That also solves the problem of how to get additional standbys > to follow the new master. The XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record is simply > the contents of the newly written tli history file. > > If we skip the checkpoint and then crash before the next checkpoint we > just change timeline when we see XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY. When we replay > the XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY we copy the contents to the appropriate tli > file and then switch to it. > > So this solves 2 problems: having other standbys follow us when they > don't have archiving, and avoids the checkpoint. > > Let me know what you think. Looks good to me. One thing I would like to ask is that why you think walreceiver is more appropriate for writing XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record than startup process. I was thinking the opposite, because if we do so, we might be able to skip the end-of-recovery checkpoint even in file-based log-shipping case. Regards, -- Fujii Masao NIPPON TELEGRAPH AND TELEPHONE CORPORATION NTT Open Source Software
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Fujii Masao wrote: > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: >> >>> When I say skip the shutdown checkpoint, I mean remove it from the >>> critical path of required actions at the end of recovery. We can still >>> have a normal checkpoint kicked off at that time, but that no longer >>> needs to be on the critical path. >>> >>> Any problems foreseen? If not, looks like a quick patch. >> >> Patch attached for discussion/review. > > This feature is what I want, and very helpful to shorten the failover time in > streaming replication. > > Here are the review comments. Though I've not checked enough whether > this feature works fine in all recovery patterns yet. > > LocalSetXLogInsertAllowed() must be called before LogEndOfRecovery(). > LocalXLogInsertAllowed must be set to -1 after LogEndOfRecovery(). > > XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record is written to the WAL file with new > assigned timeline ID. But it must be written to the WAL file with old one. > Otherwise, when re-entering a recovery after failover, we cannot find > XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record at all. > > Before XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record is written, > RmgrTable[rmid].rm_cleanup() might write WAL records. They also > should be written to the WAL file with old timeline ID. > > When recovery target is specified, we cannot write new WAL to the file > with old timeline because which means that valid WAL records in it are > overwritten with new WAL. So when recovery target is specified, > ISTM that we cannot skip end of recovery checkpoint. Or we might need > to save all information about timelines in the database cluster instead > of writing XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record, and use it when re-entering > a recovery. > > LogEndOfRecovery() seems to need to call XLogFlush(). Otherwise, > what if the server crashes after new timeline history file is created and > recovery.conf is removed, but before XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record > has not been flushed to the disk yet? > > During recovery, when we replay XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record, we > should close the currently-opened WAL file and read the WAL file with > the timeline which XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record indicates. > Otherwise, when re-entering a recovery with old timeline, we cannot > reach new timeline. OK, some bad things there, thanks for the insightful comments. I think you're right that we can't skip the checkpoint if xlog_cleanup writes WAL records, since that implies at least one and maybe more blocks have changed and need to be flushed. That can be improved upon, but not now in 9.2.Cleanup WAL is written in either the old or the new timeline, depending upon whether we increment it. So we don't need to change anything there, IMHO. The big problem is how we handle crash recovery after we startup without a checkpoint. No quick fixes there. So let me rethink this: The idea was that we can skip the checkpoint if we promote to normal running during streaming replication. WALReceiver has been writing to WAL files, so can write more data without all of the problems noted. Rather than write the XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record via XLogInsert we should write that **from the WALreceiver** as a dummy record by direct injection into the WAL stream. So the Startup process sees a WAL record that looks like it was written by the primary saying "promote yourself", although it was actually written locally by WALreceiver when requested to shutdown. That doesn't damage anything because we know we've received all the WAL there is. Most importantly we don't need to change any of the logic in a way that endangers the other code paths at end of recovery. Writing the record in that way means we would need to calculate the new tli slightly earlier, so we can input the correct value into the record. That also solves the problem of how to get additional standbys to follow the new master. The XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record is simply the contents of the newly written tli history file. If we skip the checkpoint and then crash before the next checkpoint we just change timeline when we see XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY. When we replay the XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY we copy the contents to the appropriate tli file and then switch to it. So this solves 2 problems: having other standbys follow us when they don't have archiving, and avoids the checkpoint. Let me know what you think. -- Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: > >> When I say skip the shutdown checkpoint, I mean remove it from the >> critical path of required actions at the end of recovery. We can still >> have a normal checkpoint kicked off at that time, but that no longer >> needs to be on the critical path. >> >> Any problems foreseen? If not, looks like a quick patch. > > Patch attached for discussion/review. This feature is what I want, and very helpful to shorten the failover time in streaming replication. Here are the review comments. Though I've not checked enough whether this feature works fine in all recovery patterns yet. LocalSetXLogInsertAllowed() must be called before LogEndOfRecovery(). LocalXLogInsertAllowed must be set to -1 after LogEndOfRecovery(). XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record is written to the WAL file with new assigned timeline ID. But it must be written to the WAL file with old one. Otherwise, when re-entering a recovery after failover, we cannot find XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record at all. Before XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record is written, RmgrTable[rmid].rm_cleanup() might write WAL records. They also should be written to the WAL file with old timeline ID. When recovery target is specified, we cannot write new WAL to the file with old timeline because which means that valid WAL records in it are overwritten with new WAL. So when recovery target is specified, ISTM that we cannot skip end of recovery checkpoint. Or we might need to save all information about timelines in the database cluster instead of writing XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record, and use it when re-entering a recovery. LogEndOfRecovery() seems to need to call XLogFlush(). Otherwise, what if the server crashes after new timeline history file is created and recovery.conf is removed, but before XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record has not been flushed to the disk yet? During recovery, when we replay XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record, we should close the currently-opened WAL file and read the WAL file with the timeline which XLOG_END_OF_RECOVERY record indicates. Otherwise, when re-entering a recovery with old timeline, we cannot reach new timeline. Regards, -- Fujii Masao NIPPON TELEGRAPH AND TELEPHONE CORPORATION NTT Open Source Software Center -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On 11/13/2011 12:13 AM, Simon Riggs wrote:
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Simon Riggs wrote:
When I say skip the shutdown checkpoint, I mean remove it from the
critical path of required actions at the end of recovery. We can still
have a normal checkpoint kicked off at that time, but that no longer
needs to be on the critical path.
Any problems foreseen? If not, looks like a quick patch.
Patch attached for discussion/review.
This one was missed for the November CF; submitted in time but not added
to the app until just now. Given that Tom already voiced some specific
things to consider ("detailed review of all WAL replay activities") I
added it to the January one instead. If anyone has been looking for
reason to study WAL replay, by all means knock yourself out before then.
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Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: > When I say skip the shutdown checkpoint, I mean remove it from the > critical path of required actions at the end of recovery. We can still > have a normal checkpoint kicked off at that time, but that no longer > needs to be on the critical path. > > Any problems foreseen? If not, looks like a quick patch. Patch attached for discussion/review. -- Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services fast_failover.v1.patch Description: Binary data -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Simon Riggs writes: >> The reason we run a shutdown checkpoint is to prevent needing to >> re-enter recovery if we crash after promotion. > > That's *a* reason, it's not necessarily the only reason. This proposal > worries me, especially your blithe dismissal of the timeline issues; > but in any case I would not trust it without a detailed review of all > WAL replay activities, which you don't sound to have done. What timeline issues are you thinking of? Timelines were invented to avoid confusion with PITR. The reality is that they don't have much reason to exist in the world of replication and could be dispensed with in that context easily if there are issues associated with them. I believe the solution to be simple and wish it had occurred to me earlier. If you can think of a reason to not do this, let me know. -- Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Avoiding shutdown checkpoint at failover
Simon Riggs writes: > The reason we run a shutdown checkpoint is to prevent needing to > re-enter recovery if we crash after promotion. That's *a* reason, it's not necessarily the only reason. This proposal worries me, especially your blithe dismissal of the timeline issues; but in any case I would not trust it without a detailed review of all WAL replay activities, which you don't sound to have done. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
