Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-13 Thread kris
2009/6/7 Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us: So there are a lot of good reasons to work backwards in patching. I don't believe that these would be outweighed by some advantage in the mechanics of applying an unchanging patch to multiple branches (especially since AFAICT the mechanical advantage would

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-08 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Mark Mielke m...@mark.mielke.cc: I am a theory person - I run things in my head. To me, the concept of having more context to make the right decision, and an algorithm that takes advantage of this context to make the right decision, is simple and compelling on its own. Knowing

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-08 Thread Ron Mayer
Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Tom Lanet...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: ... but I'm not at all excited about cluttering the long-term project history with a zillion micro-commits. One of the things I find most annoying about reviewing the current commit history is that Bruce

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-08 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Nicolas Barbier nicolas.barb...@gmail.com: If I understand correctly, nearby variable renaming refers to changes to the few lines surrounding the changes-to-be-merged. Hm.. I took that to mean changes on the same line. I now realize this interpretation has been an overly strict

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-08 Thread Mark Mielke
Markus Wanner wrote: Quoting Mark Mielke m...@mark.mielke.cc: I am a theory person - I run things in my head. To me, the concept of having more context to make the right decision, and an algorithm that takes advantage of this context to make the right decision, is simple and compelling on its

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-08 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Nicolas Barbier nicolas.barb...@gmail.com: ISTM that back-patching I take this to mean back-patching by cherry picking. a change to a file that wasn't modified on the back-branch leads exactly to merging a change to a (file-wise) ancestor? Regarding the file's contents - and

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-07 Thread Nicolas Barbier
2009/6/7 Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch: However, there's no special whitespace treatment. Nor anything remotely as clever as nearby variable renaming. There's no such magic, the developer still needs to tell the tool what he wants. If I understand correctly, nearby variable renaming refers

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Tom Lane wrote: I think it's already been made crystal clear that the people who actually do this work don't do it that way, and are uninterested in allowing their tools to force them to do it that way. That's well understood. Patching from HEAD back works better for us for a number of

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Yeah, a requirement to work from the back branch forward is quite unacceptable IMNSHO. It's also quite unreasonable. The monotone page about daggy fixes does quite a good job in explaining why it is helpful. I think it's how to make best use of these tools. And it's

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Tom Lane
Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch writes: Out of interest, and not necessarily related to Postgres: why do you think it's unreasonable? Fixing the problem where it was introduced sounds like the most reasonable place to fix it, IMO. There are a number of possible reasons, but here are a few that

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Markus Wanner wrote: Hi, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Yeah, a requirement to work from the back branch forward is quite unacceptable IMNSHO. It's also quite unreasonable. The monotone page about daggy fixes does quite a good job in explaining why it is helpful. I think it's how to make

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Tom Lane
Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net writes: [ most of a good summary omitted ] ... Even fairly trivial patches can suffer from this: the pretty small plperl fixes I applied yesterday and the day before, required adjustment going from one branch to the previous one in about three out of five

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Mark Mielke
Tom Lane wrote: I have heard it claimed that git is more intelligent than plain diff/patch and could successfully merge patches in cases that currently require manual adjustment of the sort Andrew describes. If that's really true to any significant extent, then it could represent a benefit

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Tom Lane
Mark Mielke m...@mark.mielke.cc writes: Tom Lane wrote: I have heard it claimed that git is more intelligent than plain diff/patch and could successfully merge patches in cases that currently require manual adjustment of the sort Andrew describes. ... However, I have yet to see any actual

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Greg Stark
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Tom Lanet...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: However, given that we don't do any real development on the back branches, it might be that trying to be smart about this is a waste of time anyway.  Surely only the HEAD version of the patch is going to be something that other

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane wrote: Any revision control system should be able to do better than diff/patch as these systems have more information available to them. Normal GIT uses the relatively common 3-way merge based upon the most recent common ancestor algorithm. Assuming there is a most recent common

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Tom Lane wrote: There are a number of possible reasons, but here are a few that hold for me: Thank you for this very good collection. I'm still wondering about what's the best way to represent this in git (or others). Cherry-picking is arguably the simplest variant. Maybe that can be

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Andrew Dunstan wrote: One fact to keep in mind is that, unlike most other FOSS projects, we keep quite a large number of branches live. So far I thought exactly that would be a good reason for migrating to something like git. Those claim to ease working on multiple branches in parallel,

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Tom Lane wrote: How robust is git about dealing with whitespace changes, nearby variable renamings, and such? Monotone tracks changes line by line. I'm not sure about git. Kdiff3, which is used to do the manual merge, if necessary, uses some finer grained method, AFAIK. However, there's

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-06 Thread Mark Mielke
Tom Lane wrote: Any revision control system should be able to do better than diff/patch as these systems have more information available to them. Normal GIT uses the relatively common 3-way merge based upon the most recent common ancestor algorithm. Assuming there is a most recent common

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Ron Mayer rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com: Seems you'd want to do is create a new branch as close to the point where the bug was introduced - and then merge that forward into each of the branches. Thank you for pointing this out. As a fan of monotone I certainly know and like that

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Tom Lane
Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch writes: Note that a requirement for daggy fixes is that the bug is fixed close to the point where it was introduced. So fixing it on the oldest stable branch that introduced a bug instead of fixing it on HEAD and then back-porting would certainly be a step

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane wrote: Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch writes: Note that a requirement for daggy fixes is that the bug is fixed close to the point where it was introduced. So fixing it on the oldest stable branch that introduced a bug instead of fixing it on HEAD and then back-porting would

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Tom Lanet...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch writes: Note that a requirement for daggy fixes is that the bug is fixed close to the point where it was introduced. So fixing it on the oldest stable branch that introduced a bug instead of

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: I'm sure someone is going to come in here and again recommend merging, but I'm going to again recommend not merging. Cherry-picking is the way to go here. Or just commit to each branch completely separately with the same commit message; cherry-pick

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Tom Lanet...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: However, given that we don't do any real development on the back branches, it might be that trying to be smart about this is a waste of time anyway.  Surely only the HEAD version of the patch is going to be something that other

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: [ about micro commits ] (As a side benefit, if one of my little micro-commits turns out to have a bug, you can easily revert *just that commit*, without having to manually sort out exactly which pieces related to that change.) I don't actually have a

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Tom Lanet...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: [ about micro commits ] (As a side benefit, if one of my little micro-commits turns out to have a bug, you can easily revert *just that commit*, without having to manually sort out

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: [ about micro commits ] (As a side benefit, if one of my little micro-commits turns out to have a bug, you can easily revert *just that commit*, without having to manually sort out exactly which pieces related to that change.) I

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net [090605 13:55]: Yeah, a requirement to work from the back branch forward is quite unacceptable IMNSHO. It's also quite unreasonable. The tool is there to help, not to force an unnatural work pattern on us. Again, just to make it clear, git isn't going

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Aidan Van Dyk wrote: * Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net [090605 13:55]: Yeah, a requirement to work from the back branch forward is quite unacceptable IMNSHO. It's also quite unreasonable. The tool is there to help, not to force an unnatural work pattern on us. Again, just to

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-05 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net [090605 14:41]: The whole point is that we want something better *that suits our work patterns*. Almost all the backpatching that gets done is by the committers. So we have a bunch of concerns that are not relevant to that vast majority of

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-04 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Greg Stark st...@enterprisedb.com: This is all completely irrelevant to the CVS import. To the CVS import it is, yes. After all, CVS has no notion of renaming files. But my example is about renaming with git *after* the conversion. Git *does* support renaming (to some extent).

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-04 Thread Greg Stark
On 4 Jun 2009, at 09:11, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrote: Hi, Quoting Greg Stark st...@enterprisedb.com: This is all completely irrelevant to the CVS import. To the CVS import it is, yes. After all, CVS has no notion of renaming files. But my example is about renaming with git

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-04 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Greg Stark greg.st...@enterprisedb.com: Hmm. I see. I'm not sure we've ever added files to back branches either. I'm less sure of that though. We did from time to time. Every merge commit in my current conversion contains at least one such file that got added as part of a back

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-04 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us: BTW, Markus: you do realize thomas is not me but Tom Lockhart? Uh.. thanks, that name has fallen through the cracks, before. I've added it now, it will be included in the next sample conversion. Regards Markus Wanner -- Sent via pgsql-hackers

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-04 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: I'm not sure whether we should mark the old branches getting merges down or the new branches getting merged up. I suspect I'm missing something but I don't see any reason one is better than the other. As pointed out by others, it doesn't make

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-04 Thread Ron Mayer
Markus Wanner wrote: The new branches getting merged up could work. That is, applying the fix to the oldest back-branch which requires the fix first and then merge it to all newer ones, including HEAD. However, that would require some rethinking: instead of creating bugfix-patches for HEAD,

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: The example was not actual case from Postgres CVS history, but hypotetical situation without checking if it already works with GIT. Of course it is a simplified example, but it resembles what could happen i.e. to the file

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Greg Stark
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrote: If you create separate commits during the conversion, rename that file on the master branch This is all completely irrelevant to the CVS import. I don't think we've ever renamed files because CVS can't handle it cleanly.

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Andres Freund
Hi, On 06/03/2009 02:08 PM, Greg Stark wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Markus Wannermar...@bluegap.ch wrote: That would make the git history match Tom's same commit message implicit CVS history that cvs2pcl was giving him. I find git-log's output including merge commits kind of strange

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Greg Stark
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote: git log --no-merges hides the actual merge commits if that is what you want. Ooh! Life seems so much sweeter now! Given that we don't have to see them then I'm all for marking bug fix patches which were applied to multiple

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Magnus Hagander
Greg Stark wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote: git log --no-merges hides the actual merge commits if that is what you want. Ooh! Life seems so much sweeter now! Given that we don't have to see them then I'm all for marking bug fix patches which

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/3/09, Greg Stark st...@enterprisedb.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote: git log --no-merges hides the actual merge commits if that is what you want. Ooh! Life seems so much sweeter now! Given that we don't have to see them then I'm

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net wrote: Greg Stark wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote: git log --no-merges hides the actual merge commits if that is what you want. Ooh! Life seems so much sweeter now! Given that

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/3/09, Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net wrote: Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net wrote: I'm not sure whether we should mark the old branches getting merges down or the new branches getting merged up. I suspect I'm missing

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net [090603 10:13]: Right, if it adds additional metadata that lets the tools do their magic better, and it's still easy to filter out, I don't see a downside. Note, that it could (and likely will) have a downside when you get to doing real merge-based

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com [090603 10:26]: Thats true, but it's not representable in VCS, unless you use cherry-pick, which is just UI around patch transport. But considering separate local trees (with can optionally contain local per-fix branches), it is possible to separate the

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Magnus Hagander
Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net wrote: I'm not sure whether we should mark the old branches getting merges down or the new branches getting merged up. I suspect I'm missing something but I don't see any reason one is better than the

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com wrote: Various scenarios with git cherry-pick and similar tools would still result in duplicate commits, so we would need a git log post-processor anyway if we want to somehow group them together for eg. weekly commit summary.  And

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/3/09, Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca wrote: * Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com [090603 10:26]: Thats true, but it's not representable in VCS, unless you use cherry-pick, which is just UI around patch transport. But considering separate local trees (with can optionally contain local

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com [090603 11:12]: Well, thats good to know, but this also seems to mean it's rather bad tool for back-patching, as you risk including random unwanted commits too that happened in the HEAD meantime. But also, it's very good tool for forward-patching. It doesn't

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/3/09, Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca wrote: * Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com [090603 11:12]: Well, thats good to know, but this also seems to mean it's rather bad tool for back-patching, as you risk including random unwanted commits too that happened in the HEAD meantime. But also,

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com [090603 11:28]: I'm not certain, but I remember using cherry pick and seeing several commits in result. This seems to be a point that needs to be checked. I'm not sure what you're recalling, but git cherry-pick takes a single commit, and applies it as a

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-03 Thread Ron Mayer
Robert Haas wrote: But I wonder if it would make more sense to include some kind of metadata in the commit message (or some other property of the commit? does git support that?) to make it not depend on that. From elsewhere in this thread[1], 'The git cherry-pick ... -x flag adds a note to

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/1/09, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrote: a newish conversion with cvs2git is available to check here: git://www.bluegap.ch/ (it's not incremental and will only stay for a few days) +1 for the idea of replacing CVS usernames with full names. The knowledge about CVS usernames

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/2/09, Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/1/09, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrote: a newish conversion with cvs2git is available to check here: git://www.bluegap.ch/ (it's not incremental and will only stay for a few days) Btw this conversion seems broken as it

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: I don't care half as much about the keyword expansion stuff - that's doomed to disappear anyway. But this is one aspect we need to get right for the conversion. What's your definition of right? I personally prefer the keyword expansion to match

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/2/09, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrote: Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: I don't care half as much about the keyword expansion stuff - that's doomed to disappear anyway. But this is one aspect we need to get right for the conversion. What's your definition of

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: Btw this conversion seems broken as it contains random merge commits. Well, that's a feature, not a bug ;-) When a commit adds a file to the master *and* then to the branch as well, cvs2git prefers to represent this as a merge from the master

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: This is Definitely Wrong (tm). You seem to be thinking that comparing GIT checkout to random parallel CVS checkout (eg. from .tgz.) is the main use-case. It is not. Browsing history and looking and diffs between versions is. And expanded CVS

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/2/09, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrote: Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: Btw this conversion seems broken as it contains random merge commits. Well, that's a feature, not a bug ;-) When a commit adds a file to the master *and* then to the branch as well, cvs2git

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090602 07:08]: Hi, Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: I don't care half as much about the keyword expansion stuff - that's doomed to disappear anyway. But this is one aspect we need to get right for the conversion. What's your definition of right? I

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca: Pick your poison (after all, it's CVS), either way, I think the 2 of *us* are going to disagree which is best here ;-) Marko already convinced me of -kk, I'm trying that with cvs2git. But, which ever way (exact to -kk or exact to -kv), the

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090602 09:37]: Marko already convinced me of -kk, I'm trying that with cvs2git. Good ;-) I just really didn't want to care about keyword expansion. Besides lacking consistency, it's one of the worst misfeatures of CVS, IMNSHO. ;-) Absolutely... And

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: Not a problem for git I think Knowing that git doesn't track files as hard as monotone, I certainly doubt that. - it assumes they are same if they have same contents... Why do you assume they have the same contents? Obviously these are

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090602 10:23]: # Bang, you suddenly have 'testfile' and 'movedfile', go figure! I leave it as an exercise for the reader to try the same with a single historic origin of the file, as cvs2git does the conversion. Sure, and we can all construct example

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Aidan Van Dyk escribió: * Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090602 10:23]: # Bang, you suddenly have 'testfile' and 'movedfile', go figure! I leave it as an exercise for the reader to try the same with a single historic origin of the file, as cvs2git does the conversion. Sure, and

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Tom Lane
Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca writes: * Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090602 10:23]: You consider it a mess, I consider it a better and more valid representation of the mess that CVS is. So much better that it makes the history as useless as CVS... I think one of the reasons people

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca: Sure, and we can all construct example where that move is both right and wrong... Huh? The problem is the file duplication. The move is an action of a committer - it's neither right nor wrong in this example. I cannot see any use case for

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Greg Stark
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: The Monotone folk call this daggy fixes and it seems a clean way to handle things. http://www.monotone.ca/wiki/DaggyFixes/ Is this like what git calls an octopus? I've been wondering what the point of such

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/2/09, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca writes: * Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090602 10:23]: You consider it a mess, I consider it a better and more valid representation of the mess that CVS is. So much better that it makes the history as

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/2/09, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrote: [academic nitpicking] Sorry, not going there. Just look at the state of VCS systems that have prioritized academic issues insead of practicality... (arch/darcs/monotone/etc..) So please turn the merge logic off. If this cannot be turned off,

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca writes: * Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090602 10:23]: You consider it a mess, I consider it a better and more valid representation of the mess that CVS is. So much better that it makes the

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us: FWIW, the tool that I customarily use (cvs2cl) considers commits on different branches to be the same if they have the same commit message and occur sufficiently close together (within a few minutes). My committing habits have been designed around that

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: Sorry, not going there. Just look at the state of VCS systems that have prioritized academic issues insead of practicality... (arch/darcs/monotone/etc..) I already am there. And I don't want to go back, thanks. But my bias for monotone certainly

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Marko Kreen
On 6/2/09, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrote: Quoting Marko Kreen mark...@gmail.com: And what silly side effects are you talking about? I'm talking about spurious file duplicates popping up after a rename and a merge, see my example in this thread. The example was not actual case

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-02 Thread Ron Mayer
Aidan Van Dyk wrote: * Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090602 10:23]: As mentioned before, I'd personally favor *all* of the back-ports to actually be merges of some sort, because that's what they effectively are. However, that also bring up the question of how we are going to do

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-01 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, a newish conversion with cvs2git is available to check here: git://www.bluegap.ch/ (it's not incremental and will only stay for a few days) For everybody interested, please check the committer names and emails. I'm missing the names and email addresses for these committers: 'barry'

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-01 Thread Tom Lane
Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch writes: I'm missing the names and email addresses for these committers: 'barry' : ('barry??', ''), Barry Lind, formerly one of the JDBC bunch, been inactive for awhile 'dennis' : ('Dennis??', ''), I suppose this must be Dennis Björklund, but I didn't

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-01 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane wrote: Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch writes: 'dennis' : ('Dennis??', ''), I suppose this must be Dennis Bj�rklund, but I didn't realize he used to be a committer. IIRC he was given commit privs for translation files. -- Alvaro Herrera

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-06-01 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com writes: Tom Lane wrote: I suppose this must be Dennis Björklund, but I didn't realize he used to be a committer. IIRC he was given commit privs for translation files. Ah, right, that does ring a bell now. BTW, Markus: you do realize thomas is not me

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com: That's not the best news I've had today... Sorry :-( To me they sound complex and inconvenient. I guess I'm kind of mystified by why we can't make this work reliably. Other than the broken tags issue we've discussed, it seems like the only

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Thursday 28 May 2009 20:03:38 Stephen Frost wrote: * Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: Right. Shall we try to spec out exactly what our conversion requirements are? Here's a shot: [...] Comments? Other considerations? Certainly sounds reasonable to me. I'd be really suprised

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch wrot Hi, Quoting Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com: Why is this harder than I think it is? One of the simplest possible example is something like: Thanks for the explanation, I understand it better now. I'm still dismayed, but

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca: Ok, so seeing the interest in having a good conversion, I took a stab at parsecvs this afternoon, probably what I consider the leading static conversion tool. Here are some results from a conversion with cvs2git. It takes about 10 minutes to run

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090529 11:06]: Hi, Comparison of the head of each branch between git and CVS (modulo CVS keyword expansion, which I've filtered out): How did you filter it out, and without the filtering out, how does it do? I plan to compare the tags as well and test

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca: * Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090529 11:06]: Comparison of the head of each branch between git and CVS (modulo CVS keyword expansion, which I've filtered out): How did you filter it out With perl some regexes. and without the filtering

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090529 11:18]: Hi, Quoting Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca: * Markus Wanner mar...@bluegap.ch [090529 11:06]: Comparison of the head of each branch between git and CVS (modulo CVS keyword expansion, which I've filtered out): How did you filter it out

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Aidan Van Dyk wrote: Yes, but the point is you want an exact replica of CVS right? You're git repo should have $PostgreSQL$ and the cvs export/checkout (you do use -kk right) should also have $PostgreSQL$. The 3 parsecvs errors were that it *didn't* recognoze the strange $PostgreSQL ...

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane escribió: Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com writes: Tom Lane escribi�: What was in the back of my mind was that we'd go around and mass-remove $PostgreSQL$ (and any other lurking tags), but only from HEAD and only after the repo conversion. Although just before it would

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-29 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com [090529 11:45]: Aidan Van Dyk wrote: Yes, but the point is you want an exact replica of CVS right? You're git repo should have $PostgreSQL$ and the cvs export/checkout (you do use -kk right) should also have $PostgreSQL$. The 3 parsecvs

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-28 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marc G. Fournier scra...@hub.org: Please repost ... Peter referred to this message here: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg01879.php However, please be cautious before applying such a patch. Regards Markus Wanner -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-28 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Marc G. Fournier scra...@hub.org: Actually, I have done that on at least one of the 8.x tags too, so if that is it, more then those two tags should be causing issues ... Not *every* such issue causes problems. An example that's perfectly fine: cvs commit -m first commit fileA

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-28 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, Quoting Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com: I think this is a semantic argument. The problem isn't that we don't understand how CVS behaves; it's that we find that behavior undesirable I fully agree to that and find it undesirable as well. aka broken. Well, for some it's a feature,

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-28 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com [090527 22:43]: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca wrote: * Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com [090527 21:30]: And actually looking at the history of the gpo repo, the branches are all messed up with merges and stuff that

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-28 Thread Robert Haas
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca wrote: All that based on the assumption that when the project switches to git, they actually want all the CVS history in their official tree.  Its certainly not necessary, and possibly not even desirable...  PostgreSQL could just

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-28 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com [090528 09:49]: On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca wrote: All that based on the assumption that when the project switches to git, they actually want all the CVS history in their official tree.  Its certainly not necessary,

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-28 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Aidan Van Dyk ai...@highrise.ca wrote: All that based on the assumption that when the project switches to git, they actually want all the CVS history in their official tree. Its certainly not necessary, and possibly not even desirable...

Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Developer meeting minutes up

2009-05-28 Thread Tom Lane
Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net writes: Robert Haas wrote: That would suck for me. I use git log a lot to see how things have changed over time. Indeed. Losing the history is not an acceptable option. I think the same. If git is not able to maintain our project history then it is not

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