[Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started!

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Hi, 

As you know, after releasing a version of Pharo, a new cycle of development 
starts. 
There is no perfect release, and with Pharo we play an infinite game (see 
Marcus talk at ESUG). 

So, now Pharo 7.0 has entered maintenance mode and Pharo 8.0 is the new 
development branch. 

That means: 

- Pharo 7.0 will have critical bugfix releases.
- But since bugs will happen and improving is a constant work, most bugfixes 
will happen in Pharo 8.0.

Let the fun continue!

Esteban

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list wrote
> I’m on holidays until 7/01 :P

Esteban, thank you for all your incredible work on all these simultaneous
big, hard problems! Now stop sending mails and go enjoy your holiday ;-)



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Esteban Lorenzano via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---


> On 27 Dec 2018, at 21:13, Torsten Bergmann  wrote:
> 
> and
> 
>  11. There is no https://get.pharo.org/80 yet …

Because there is no release!
As I said before, most of yours concerns are because I failed to explain 
correctly the purpose of a Pharo 8.0 branch opening.

Esteban

> 
> Bye
> T.
> 


--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Esteban Lorenzano via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---
Hi Torsten,

I think most of your concerns are due a miss-explanation about what it means 
opening P8 branch.
It does not means we are releasing P7 or stopping to work on it. It means 
people can now do pull requests that would not be accepted for Pharo 7.0 in a 
different branch.

Pharo 7.0 is not done and we are not switching to Pharo 8.0 now. This is just 
to allow some changes to be integrated without restricting people contributions 
just because P7 release is stuck because other problems.


> On 27 Dec 2018, at 21:06, Torsten Bergmann  wrote:
> 
> Hi Esteban,
> 
> you know I'm neither shy on contributing nor doing any work for Pharo but 
> personally I think we open Pharo 8 too early and should better focus our 
> efforts more 
> on finalizing P7 (see below) instead of opening the next construction site.
> 
> Things were already shaky and sometimes painful with P7 - nonetheless I 
> managed to get 762 commits into it. Often simple or boring PR's just to get 
> packages, classes, methods 
> in shape and clean up. Funny enough I can now say I'm on top of 
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/graphs/contributors ;)
> 
> I had a hard time finding out how things work in the new git/pharo/externally 
> managed projects combination - sometimes also with broken or unfinished 
> tools. A newly opened
> P8 so early adds even more on top...
> 
> Several things directly came into my mind:
> 
> 1. http://bugs.pharo.org now points to nirvana now

This is like that since a lot (not to say it shouldn’t be fixed, but to explain 
that is no blocker).
That address needs to be redirected or decommissioned.

> 
> 2. http://ci.pharo.org  point to nirvana now as well

Same. 
I think this is due some migration in INRIA servers, 
In any case, this is orthogonal.

> 
> 3. It's unclear to me what will happen to the bugtracker mailinglist archive. 
> Currently I often use it to stay informed about our changes.
>Will it stop in december?
> 
>https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-bugtracker/ 
> 

We should redirect pharo issues to them.

> 
> 4. The CI for Pharo 7 was not green in most of the latest commits ... and 
> situation for Pharo 8 is not even better now: RED all over on
> 
>
> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%20and%20branch%20Pipeline/
>  
> 

Is a problem in our CI, not in the image it self.
I’m not happy with it, but again this is orthogonal.

> 5. We still have dirty packages in Pharo 7 - the last remaining issue here 
>https://github.com/pharo-ide/Calypso/issues/386
>is still not solved and there was no reaction on Discord after reminding 
> it twice.

This needs to be solved, yes.
There was not reaction because mostly I was not around ;)

> 
> 6. Calypso still has hard issue in Pharo 7 - most of them already fixed in 
> Calypso project.
> 
>But integration of the new Calypso version is still pending  
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/2115 

Yes, we know :)

> 
>Nonetheless we already switch to P8?

We didn’t switch to P8. We open P8 dev branch.

> 
> 7. A change done lately (around 17.12.) was resetting the build numbers - so 
> for whatever strange reason we started with 1 again
>althoug we were already at Build 1416 for Pharo 7 with all the 
> integrations.
> 
>
> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%20and%20branch%20Pipeline/
> 
>This build number issue was not yet fixed although this is a serious issue 
> to compare image buils or be able to download using Launcher.

Build numbers are created /per branch/, not by job. This is a problem indeed 
but we do not have a solution for it. 
Real solution will be to change launcher to not consider build number (but take 
build date, we don’t know)

> 
>Nonetheless we already switch to P8?

Again, we didn’t switch, we just opened. 

> 
> 8. Lately we switched the branches from "development" to "Pharo7.0" and now 
> also "Pharo8.0". This was also just announced - without any discussion
>in advance forcing people to resetup their tools and local repos.
> 
>This change is still not event reflected in the contribution guideline ... 
> but we already switch to Pharo 8

The full purpose of the change was to be able to have two (or more) branches 
opened simultaneously. 
And yes, there will be a Pharo8.0 (and eventually a Pharo9.0), etc. branches… 

> 
> 9. We still have lots of important and must-fix cases for Pharo 7 
>https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/1412/7-0-All 
> 

I know. 
I’m almost the only one working on them.

> 
> 10. There was nothing said about backporting strategy between the new P8 and 
> P7 now…

It was said. 
Backport will happen by doing pull requests to the different, 

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Torsten Bergmann]

and

  11. There is no https://get.pharo.org/80 yet ...

Bye
T.

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Torsten Bergmann]

Hi Esteban,

you know I'm neither shy on contributing nor doing any work for Pharo but 
personally I think we open Pharo 8 too early and should better focus our 
efforts more 
on finalizing P7 (see below) instead of opening the next construction site.

Things were already shaky and sometimes painful with P7 - nonetheless I managed 
to get 762 commits into it. Often simple or boring PR's just to get packages, 
classes, methods 
in shape and clean up. Funny enough I can now say I'm on top of 
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/graphs/contributors ;)

I had a hard time finding out how things work in the new git/pharo/externally 
managed projects combination - sometimes also with broken or unfinished tools. 
A newly opened
P8 so early adds even more on top...

Several things directly came into my mind:

 1. http://bugs.pharo.org now points to nirvana now

 2. http://ci.pharo.org  point to nirvana now as well

 3. It's unclear to me what will happen to the bugtracker mailinglist archive. 
Currently I often use it to stay informed about our changes.
Will it stop in december?

https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-bugtracker/

 4. The CI for Pharo 7 was not green in most of the latest commits ... and 
situation for Pharo 8 is not even better now: RED all over on


https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%20and%20branch%20Pipeline/

 5. We still have dirty packages in Pharo 7 - the last remaining issue here 
https://github.com/pharo-ide/Calypso/issues/386
is still not solved and there was no reaction on Discord after reminding it 
twice.

 6. Calypso still has hard issue in Pharo 7 - most of them already fixed in 
Calypso project.

But integration of the new Calypso version is still pending  
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/2115 

Nonetheless we already switch to P8?

 7. A change done lately (around 17.12.) was resetting the build numbers - so 
for whatever strange reason we started with 1 again
althoug we were already at Build 1416 for Pharo 7 with all the integrations.
 

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%20and%20branch%20Pipeline/

This build number issue was not yet fixed although this is a serious issue 
to compare image buils or be able to download using Launcher.

Nonetheless we already switch to P8?
 
 8. Lately we switched the branches from "development" to "Pharo7.0" and now 
also "Pharo8.0". This was also just announced - without any discussion
in advance forcing people to resetup their tools and local repos.

This change is still not event reflected in the contribution guideline ... 
but we already switch to Pharo 8

 9. We still have lots of important and must-fix cases for Pharo 7 
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/filters/1412/7-0-All

10. There was nothing said about backporting strategy between the new P8 and P7 
now...


To me it would already help a little bit to clarify the above raised points and 
get a more detailed info about the next P7 steps towards the release.

Independent from that I fear we constantly decouple more and more people with 
too many process and contribution scheme changes at once. From the discussions 
on Discord I already see many people struggle - and often not only the 
beginners.

Bye
T.

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Alistair Grant]

Hi Esteban,

On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 at 15:52, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>
> Hi Alistair,
>
> I’m waiting to fix some issues in current VM build (new freetype lib, ensure 
> Athens will work on 64bit windows) and I was going to declare that “final vm 
> for Pharo7”.
> Then this final VM for P7 will be the first for P8 :)

Great, that will include the updates that I'm waiting for:  updates to
FileAttributesPlugin. I'll then be able to (finally) submit the patch
for the image code.

Thanks!
Alistair



> Esteban
>
> > On 27 Dec 2018, at 15:11, Alistair Grant  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Esteban,
> >
> > Can I get in an early request for a new VM for Pharo 8?
> >
> > Since the normal process is to ensure the VM is at least 2 weeks old
> > it doesn't require any action now, and of course it can wait until
> > Pharo 7 is released.
> >
> > - Linux 64 bit:
> > http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/linux/pharo-linux-x86_64threaded-201812211409-1015842.zip
> > - Mac 64 bit: 
> > http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/mac/pharo-mac-x86_64-201812211409-1015842.dmg
> > - Win 32 bit: 
> > http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur32/win/pharo-win-i386-201812211809-e14d4d6.zip
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Alistair
> >
> > On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 at 09:51, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> We are preparing to release Pharo 7.0 (which will be in January, as soon 
> >> as we finish some last details). And in the meantime impatient people has 
> >> asked (and obtained) the aperture of Pharo 8.0 development! :)
> >>
> >> So you now can start making Pull Requests against Pharo8.0 branch :)
> >>
> >> Esteban
> >
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Hi Alistair, 

I’m waiting to fix some issues in current VM build (new freetype lib, ensure 
Athens will work on 64bit windows) and I was going to declare that “final vm 
for Pharo7”. 
Then this final VM for P7 will be the first for P8 :) 

Esteban

> On 27 Dec 2018, at 15:11, Alistair Grant  wrote:
> 
> Hi Esteban,
> 
> Can I get in an early request for a new VM for Pharo 8?
> 
> Since the normal process is to ensure the VM is at least 2 weeks old
> it doesn't require any action now, and of course it can wait until
> Pharo 7 is released.
> 
> - Linux 64 bit:
> http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/linux/pharo-linux-x86_64threaded-201812211409-1015842.zip
> - Mac 64 bit: 
> http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/mac/pharo-mac-x86_64-201812211409-1015842.dmg
> - Win 32 bit: 
> http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur32/win/pharo-win-i386-201812211809-e14d4d6.zip
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alistair
> 
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 at 09:51, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> We are preparing to release Pharo 7.0 (which will be in January, as soon as 
>> we finish some last details). And in the meantime impatient people has asked 
>> (and obtained) the aperture of Pharo 8.0 development! :)
>> 
>> So you now can start making Pull Requests against Pharo8.0 branch :)
>> 
>> Esteban
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Alistair Grant]

Hi Esteban,

Can I get in an early request for a new VM for Pharo 8?

Since the normal process is to ensure the VM is at least 2 weeks old
it doesn't require any action now, and of course it can wait until
Pharo 7 is released.

- Linux 64 bit:
http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/linux/pharo-linux-x86_64threaded-201812211409-1015842.zip
- Mac 64 bit: 
http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/mac/pharo-mac-x86_64-201812211409-1015842.dmg
- Win 32 bit: 
http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur32/win/pharo-win-i386-201812211809-e14d4d6.zip

Thanks!

Alistair

On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 at 09:51, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> We are preparing to release Pharo 7.0 (which will be in January, as soon as 
> we finish some last details). And in the meantime impatient people has asked 
> (and obtained) the aperture of Pharo 8.0 development! :)
>
> So you now can start making Pull Requests against Pharo8.0 branch :)
>
> Esteban

[Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 development started

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Hello all, 

We are preparing to release Pharo 7.0 (which will be in January, as soon as we 
finish some last details). And in the meantime impatient people has asked (and 
obtained) the aperture of Pharo 8.0 development! :)

So you now can start making Pull Requests against Pharo8.0 branch :)

Esteban