Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Hi Mike, Yes sure I can. So this PharoNOS is basically TinyCore Linux with pure X server and Pharo running in fullscreen. Yes I already found out. I have made some auto-installation scripts which configure the disk so no setup wizard is needed. All space available is mounted under /mnt/universe/ so you may use that folder to store stuff. Everything else is stored in memory. Nice side effect of this is an ease of update as you may just replace the ISO and you'll get the new version of everything (except of the image of course). Mmmhh ... maybe it should initially boot a downsized Image selector image (that allows to download images from CI like Pharo Launcher). Something similar to the usual Linux install wizards to initially setup a machine, configure keyboard layout, clock/timezone, IP/DHCP ... but done in Smalltalk. OSProcess commands could be used underneath to configure the underlying Linux. If this PharoNOS GraphicalInstall supports downloading premade image(s) from CI similar to PharoLauncher one could easily configure the machine with for instance with a premade Seaside, Bootstrap, Moose, ... image. This image could also be the fallback to repair, ... Image is chosen on start by reading the /mnt/universe/image file. You may upload other image and change this file so after reboot it will start with a new one. This info should be included in the docu in the pillarhub article (if not already) Jan Tomsa has pointed out that the disk setup is quite dangerous (https://twitter.com/DetektivTomy/status/522860736155238401) I plan to update it later today with more safe solution which will not erase all the data. Nice Also I think Pharo should be run under root user so you can bind to any port. Yes, I have the following quick setup scenario in mind: downlod the ISO, start a virtual computer with it (in virtualization software or on a cloud server). Use the Pharo based setup wizard (see above) to setup keyboard layout, give a fixed IP, adjust the clock, ... and download a premade Seaside (or other webframework image) from CI. Now run on port 80, configure another port and give a name to the machine in the network. This way one could easily setup virtualized network machines to provide network delivered applications. I can also put more 3d-party libs like sqlite3, so we can have some interesting apps for the terminals run on embedded Pharo :) However I need some feedback on what is needed. sQLite3 would be cool, also unqlite. Both are small shared libs and embeddable. This way one could load the Native Boost bindings for either SQLite3 or PUnqlite and use an embedded RDBMS or a NoSQL Database and also load/use Glorp/Voyage or other to access it. So that is it, all comments are welcome. A specific small image demonstrating Pharo 3 or 4 lively in the web browser also comes up as an idea. Emulating and bootstrapping an x86 machine on top of JavaScript is possible these days. Look at http://copy.sh/v86/ to bootstrap a linux in your browser. I tried to run the ISO with it, but it hangs. I guess it is due to query for network (which is not available in browser). Maybe a special non-network image could be built. This way we could include a premade machine in the Pharo Project webpage so people can directly bootstrap and play with Pharo. Similar to SqueakJS (http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/) but without having to port the Pharo VM to JS. I'll take a look at AioPlugin issue. How I can test if it is loaded well? I loaded OSProcess from the config browser and used (PipeableOSProcess command: 'pwd') output. While doing this the system lamented about the missing AioPlugin. Bye T.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Le 17 oct. 2014 04:02, mikefilonov mikefilo...@gmail.com a écrit : Hi Phil, I would really happy to know if this works for you. Considering this use case in mind do you have an idea how PharoNOS should handle the Image? Should it be embedded in ISO or should it be configured from clean Pharo on each device? For instance, if it is really useful we can have a server which would re-build the ISO with a requested image. What do you think on this? I would have an ssh enabled box and updare things with ansible so that I could update at ton of devices at once. Phil -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785039.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Thank you Torsten. Great ideas :) I made a to-do list for this project not to forget anything https://trello.com/b/JXtcf2Ye/pharonos Yes, I have the following quick setup scenario in mind: downlod the ISO, start a virtual computer with it (in virtualization software or on a cloud server). Use the Pharo based setup wizard (see above) to setup keyboard layout, give a fixed IP, adjust the clock, ... and download a premade Seaside (or other webframework image) from CI. Now run on port 80, configure another port and give a name to the machine in the network. This way one could easily setup virtualized network machines to provide network delivered applications. Isn't it what Pharocloud is all about? ;) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785075.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
so the advantage of using this is that is a slim down linux distro with Pharo included ? Why not just download a small linux distro and install Pharo ? On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:14 AM, mikefilonov mikefilo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Torsten. Great ideas :) I made a to-do list for this project not to forget anything https://trello.com/b/JXtcf2Ye/pharonos Yes, I have the following quick setup scenario in mind: downlod the ISO, start a virtual computer with it (in virtualization software or on a cloud server). Use the Pharo based setup wizard (see above) to setup keyboard layout, give a fixed IP, adjust the clock, ... and download a premade Seaside (or other webframework image) from CI. Now run on port 80, configure another port and give a name to the machine in the network. This way one could easily setup virtualized network machines to provide network delivered applications. Isn't it what Pharocloud is all about? ;) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785075.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Isn't it what Pharocloud is all about? ;) Partly because in enterprise environments you may want to run apps in intranet/own network only. Bye T.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 3:47 AM, mikefilonov mikefilo...@gmail.com wrote: Hm, just now get the idea to run Image chooser if default image failed. Is it available on linux? you have the pharo launcher that let's you download images from the web (be it on jenkins, on files.pharo.org, or on your own server) -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm. Winston Churchill
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Yes, the idea of PharoNOS is to have the Smalltalk-only environment with as little external stuff as possible. Current PharoNOS implementation based on TinyCore Linux - the smallest Linux distro - in order to have the smallest possible system footprint. Why not just download a small linux distro and install Pharo ? Well, basically this what PharoNOS is :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785089.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
I see, I dont have experience with TinyCore linux, but I do have experience with puppy linux which I really liked and used several times on my older pcs. Interest concept , good work :) Actually puppy linux is similar to what you do, in the sense that it uses its own programming language , genie https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/Genie?action=showredirect=Genie On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:59 AM, mikefilonov mikefilo...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the idea of PharoNOS is to have the Smalltalk-only environment with as little external stuff as possible. Current PharoNOS implementation based on TinyCore Linux - the smallest Linux distro - in order to have the smallest possible system footprint. Why not just download a small linux distro and install Pharo ? Well, basically this what PharoNOS is :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785089.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Then, PharoNOS does not mean No Operating System, but minimun operating system? A few days ago I answered in this list about Smalltalk-based unikernels, similar to Mirage OS (http://www.openmirage.org/). Do you think PharoNOS can evolve into this kind of tool? 2014-10-17 10:28 GMT+02:00 kilon alios kilon.al...@gmail.com: I see, I dont have experience with TinyCore linux, but I do have experience with puppy linux which I really liked and used several times on my older pcs. Interest concept , good work :) Actually puppy linux is similar to what you do, in the sense that it uses its own programming language , genie https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/Genie?action=showredirect=Genie On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:59 AM, mikefilonov mikefilo...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the idea of PharoNOS is to have the Smalltalk-only environment with as little external stuff as possible. Current PharoNOS implementation based on TinyCore Linux - the smallest Linux distro - in order to have the smallest possible system footprint. Why not just download a small linux distro and install Pharo ? Well, basically this what PharoNOS is :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785089.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Hi Mike, tried to swap the image using the following procedure: 1. Run the following code to download latest Pharo 4.0 ZnClient new url: 'http://files.pharo.org/image/40/latest.zip'; downloadTo: '/mnt/universe/pharo-image/latest.zip'. ZipArchive extractAllIn: '/mnt/universe/pharo-image/latest.zip'. and extract to /mnt/universe/pharo-image/ 2. Now I wanted to change /mnt/universe/image file name to point to the new image. Unfortunately I can not write or delete/recreate this file from Pharo's file browser. Can you provide the build script for the ISO also on GitHub? Thx T.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Hi, do you plan to develop it as a plugin? When I played with TinyCore Linux and Pharo (using framebuffer), I directly applied required the plugins on the filesystem. -- Pavel 2014-10-17 11:09 GMT+02:00 Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de: Hi Mike, tried to swap the image using the following procedure: 1. Run the following code to download latest Pharo 4.0 ZnClient new url: 'http://files.pharo.org/image/40/latest.zip'; downloadTo: '/mnt/universe/pharo-image/latest.zip'. ZipArchive extractAllIn: '/mnt/universe/pharo-image/latest.zip'. and extract to /mnt/universe/pharo-image/ 2. Now I wanted to change /mnt/universe/image file name to point to the new image. Unfortunately I can not write or delete/recreate this file from Pharo's file browser. Can you provide the build script for the ISO also on GitHub? Thx T.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
If SqueakNOS wil continued and moved to Pharo this name (PharoNOS) should be free. Maybe this project should be renamed? PharoLinux? Anyway great job. I remember many yeas ago squeak had similar project by some japanese guy 2014-10-17 12:39 GMT+04:00 Rafael Luque rafael.luque.le...@gmail.com: Then, PharoNOS does not mean No Operating System, but minimun operating system? A few days ago I answered in this list about Smalltalk-based unikernels, similar to Mirage OS (http://www.openmirage.org/). Do you think PharoNOS can evolve into this kind of tool? 2014-10-17 10:28 GMT+02:00 kilon alios kilon.al...@gmail.com: I see, I dont have experience with TinyCore linux, but I do have experience with puppy linux which I really liked and used several times on my older pcs. Interest concept , good work :) Actually puppy linux is similar to what you do, in the sense that it uses its own programming language , genie https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/Genie?action=showredirect=Genie On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:59 AM, mikefilonov mikefilo...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the idea of PharoNOS is to have the Smalltalk-only environment with as little external stuff as possible. Current PharoNOS implementation based on TinyCore Linux - the smallest Linux distro - in order to have the smallest possible system footprint. Why not just download a small linux distro and install Pharo ? Well, basically this what PharoNOS is :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785089.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Here's the image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzSsmZhqtUTeaURYRnA0eHgycXM/view?usp=sharing 2014-10-17 11:47 GMT+02:00 Pavel Krivanek pavel.kriva...@gmail.com: Hi, do you plan to develop it as a plugin? When I played with TinyCore Linux and Pharo (using framebuffer), I directly applied required the plugins on the filesystem. -- Pavel 2014-10-17 11:09 GMT+02:00 Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de: Hi Mike, tried to swap the image using the following procedure: 1. Run the following code to download latest Pharo 4.0 ZnClient new url: 'http://files.pharo.org/image/40/latest.zip'; downloadTo: '/mnt/universe/pharo-image/latest.zip'. ZipArchive extractAllIn: '/mnt/universe/pharo-image/latest.zip'. and extract to /mnt/universe/pharo-image/ 2. Now I wanted to change /mnt/universe/image file name to point to the new image. Unfortunately I can not write or delete/recreate this file from Pharo's file browser. Can you provide the build script for the ISO also on GitHub? Thx T.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
I have updated the ISO - Changed the disk setup - now it is more safe - it finds first disk without a partition table and use it for persistance. If no such disk found ISO works from memory. - Added PharoLaucher as a default Image - Added sqlite3 driver (not test yet though) - Made Pharo run by root user so all files are editable now I was not able to fix AioPlugin as seems there is no compiled version for Linux. Please check the new ISO out and share your feedback. You may get the ISO here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7FTL05bnHyud2lCWHN0LUdTd1Eusp=sharing#list pharonos 2.iso -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785187.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Ah, very cool. I was thinking of running Pharo or some devices around the network for probing things. This may prove to be the perfect vehicle for that! Phil On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, I just found http://pillarhub.pharocloud.com/hub/mikefilonov/pharonos Mike: can you comment a little bit on it here on the pharo lists? Thx T.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Downloaded the iso and started a VM. Works well. What would be nice: - a PharoVM with AioPlugin so that CommandShell works nicer. - a preloaded CommandShell - a way to configure the keyboard to another layout and... a Dark/DawnTheme and a wicked cool logo for the background! Configurations are loading without trouble. Congratulations on that sweet idea and materialization. Phil On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, I just found http://pillarhub.pharocloud.com/hub/mikefilonov/pharonos Mike: can you comment a little bit on it here on the pharo lists? Thx T.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Yes, I tried in VirtualBox. Same issues here: used OSProcess to query for the DHCP given IP address and noticed that AioPlugin is not available. I like that it is a naked Pharo 3.0 image. So I would not preload the command shell - one can easily provide a config in the config browser for additional things or load an own config via script/network. So one could adopt to its own needs with a simple additional loading (like switching to themes, logo, ...). And yes: keyboard layout switching is required. Really nice! Can the ISO image building get automated so we can have a CI script that builds an ISO for Pharo 3.0, current 4.0 and others ... Thx T. Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Oktober 2014 um 22:07 Uhr Von: p...@highoctane.be p...@highoctane.be An: Pharo Development List pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS Downloaded the iso and started a VM. Works well. What would be nice: - a PharoVM with AioPlugin so that CommandShell works nicer. - a preloaded CommandShell - a way to configure the keyboard to another layout and... a Dark/DawnTheme and a wicked cool logo for the background! Configurations are loading without trouble. Congratulations on that sweet idea and materialization. Phil On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote:Hi, I just found http://pillarhub.pharocloud.com/hub/mikefilonov/pharonos[http://pillarhub.pharocloud.com/hub/mikefilonov/pharonos] Mike: can you comment a little bit on it here on the pharo lists? Thx T.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Hi Torsten, Yes sure I can. So this PharoNOS is basically TinyCore Linux with pure X server and Pharo running in fullscreen. I have made some auto-installation scripts which configure the disk so no setup wizard is needed. All space available is mounted under /mnt/universe/ so you may use that folder to store stuff. Everything else is stored in memory. Nice side effect of this is an ease of update as you may just replace the ISO and you'll get the new version of everything (except of the image of course). Image is chosen on start by reading the /mnt/universe/image file. You may upload other image and change this file so after reboot it will start with a new one. No safeguards here though - if it breaks there is no cure for it yet :( I'm thinking over on how to implement some recovery on Image not available or broken. Hm, just now get the idea to run Image chooser if default image failed. Is it available on linux? Jan Tomsa has pointed out that the disk setup is quite dangerous (https://twitter.com/DetektivTomy/status/522860736155238401) I plan to update it later today with more safe solution which will not erase all the data. The idea is to format the disk without a partition table or to work from RAM. Also I think Pharo should be run under root user so you can bind to any port. I can also put more 3d-party libs like sqlite3, so we can have some interesting apps for the terminals run on embedded Pharo :) However I need some feedback on what is needed. So that is it, all comments are welcome. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785034.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
I'll take a look at AioPlugin issue. How I can test if it is loaded well? The ISO process can be easily automated. If the PharoNOS is really needed I'll run CI somewhere :) May be we could think of a way not to package the image but somehow fetch it after start? It could be a script which downloads an image requested and reconfigures the startup. What do you think? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785035.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Hi Phil, I would really happy to know if this works for you. Considering this use case in mind do you have an idea how PharoNOS should handle the Image? Should it be embedded in ISO or should it be configured from clean Pharo on each device? For instance, if it is really useful we can have a server which would re-build the ISO with a requested image. What do you think on this? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785039.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 06:52:48PM -0700, mikefilonov wrote: I'll take a look at AioPlugin issue. How I can test if it is loaded well? With OSProcess installed, evaluate AioEventHandler aioPluginPresent Dave
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Lovely... TCL + Pharo .. ! On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 7:17 AM, mikefilonov mikefilo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Torsten, Yes sure I can. So this PharoNOS is basically TinyCore Linux with pure X server and Pharo running in fullscreen. I have made some auto-installation scripts which configure the disk so no setup wizard is needed. All space available is mounted under /mnt/universe/ so you may use that folder to store stuff. Everything else is stored in memory. Nice side effect of this is an ease of update as you may just replace the ISO and you'll get the new version of everything (except of the image of course). Image is chosen on start by reading the /mnt/universe/image file. You may upload other image and change this file so after reboot it will start with a new one. No safeguards here though - if it breaks there is no cure for it yet :( I'm thinking over on how to implement some recovery on Image not available or broken. Hm, just now get the idea to run Image chooser if default image failed. Is it available on linux? Jan Tomsa has pointed out that the disk setup is quite dangerous (https://twitter.com/DetektivTomy/status/522860736155238401) I plan to update it later today with more safe solution which will not erase all the data. The idea is to format the disk without a partition table or to work from RAM. Also I think Pharo should be run under root user so you can bind to any port. I can also put more 3d-party libs like sqlite3, so we can have some interesting apps for the terminals run on embedded Pharo :) However I need some feedback on what is needed. So that is it, all comments are welcome. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785034.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Guess this was couple of years back.. TCL + Pharo on a Virtual Box: My play with it then.. https://plus.google.com/photos/101656219013170129431/albums/5717749739476813505?banner=pwa On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 9:52 AM, S Krish krishnamachari.sudha...@gmail.com wrote: Lovely... TCL + Pharo .. ! On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 7:17 AM, mikefilonov mikefilo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Torsten, Yes sure I can. So this PharoNOS is basically TinyCore Linux with pure X server and Pharo running in fullscreen. I have made some auto-installation scripts which configure the disk so no setup wizard is needed. All space available is mounted under /mnt/universe/ so you may use that folder to store stuff. Everything else is stored in memory. Nice side effect of this is an ease of update as you may just replace the ISO and you'll get the new version of everything (except of the image of course). Image is chosen on start by reading the /mnt/universe/image file. You may upload other image and change this file so after reboot it will start with a new one. No safeguards here though - if it breaks there is no cure for it yet :( I'm thinking over on how to implement some recovery on Image not available or broken. Hm, just now get the idea to run Image chooser if default image failed. Is it available on linux? Jan Tomsa has pointed out that the disk setup is quite dangerous (https://twitter.com/DetektivTomy/status/522860736155238401) I plan to update it later today with more safe solution which will not erase all the data. The idea is to format the disk without a partition table or to work from RAM. Also I think Pharo should be run under root user so you can bind to any port. I can also put more 3d-party libs like sqlite3, so we can have some interesting apps for the terminals run on embedded Pharo :) However I need some feedback on what is needed. So that is it, all comments are welcome. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785034.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS
Wow, this is an interesting stuff. Is this a kind of desktop manager written on Pharo? From what I can see on video it support calling external processes like open-office. Does it work on Pharo 3.0 ? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoNOS-tp4784982p4785054.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
