Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

Hi Kilon, then the discussion is a bit different. As your example points out, the syntax is already there, but the notion of a module is still open and ties into the package management. I've played a bit with Metacello to have a working "project" concept synchronized with Metacello, and I could

[Pharo-users] Pillar (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:18:54 + Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > Well there is a move towards Pillar for class and method commands so > who knows maybe we will have that soon enough ;) Let me say that I'm very happy seeing that Pillar is moving forward (e.g. addition of

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

to be more specific what I mean because apparently I may know nothing about namespaces , I was talking in terms of Python's module and package system even though python uses special syntax "import" to import a module, a source file, the real functionality is actually a method but of an object

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

On ven. 13 oct. 2017 at 12:05, Gour wrote: > On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:18:54 + > Dimitris Chloupis > wrote: > > > Well there is a move towards Pillar for class and method commands so > > who knows maybe we will have that soon enough ;) > > Let me say

Re: [Pharo-users] Zinc release?

Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: On 12 Oct 2017, at 15:58, Herby Vojčík wrote: There are a few fixes out there for Zinc, not to mention convenience like ZnEntity class>> json:. Don't you consider releasing the new version (as I tried to update it by hand, it is not that

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:31 AM Thierry Goubier wrote: > 2017-10-13 10:12 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis : > >> fair enough you think namespaces are not the right solution, what you >> think is the right solution then ? >> > > I told you.

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:43:27 + Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > Why exporting to latex, html and markdown is not enough for you ? Well, I usuallyconsider latex/html as more suitable as output formats, while standard markdown is semantically too poor for input format, but

Re: [Pharo-users] How to recover selections in a fastlist after an update

Hi Ben, sure. This is my browser entry point: adaptationsBrowser | browser | browser := GLMTabulator new. browser row: [ :r | r column: #adaptations; column: #objects; column: #methods ]. browser row: #diff.

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

Interoperability with pandoc is desirable Some people want MSWord documents and they provide input in the form of MSWord documents. Or LibreOffice ODT. pandoc handles that well for a subset of MSWord options. pandoc allows you as well to write a custom output format -- in this case Pillar.

[Pharo-users] How to recover selections in a fastlist after an update

Hi, I am using fastlists in a browser inspired from glmexamples, and when i use a stepping and that i update the browser (update method) all selections in lists are lost. Is there an automatic way to recover the selections or does it have to be handled in my code ? If so, i don't understand

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

I played C019SD-W1-S1-EN-V1.mp4 and as well as the english voice, in the background I can still hear your original french voice. I'm curious the reasoning for this. cheers -ben On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Stephane Ducasse wrote: > I'm about to release the en

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

I agree with you that difficulty is half the fun, assuming you're a developer - developers solve problems, so if there weren't any we'd be a bit out of luck.  For myself I've somehow never, in a 26+ year career, worked on maintaining code. I've only ever written new code. in fact  I usually wind

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

Why exporting to latex, html and markdown is not enough for you ? On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:05 PM Gour wrote: > On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:18:54 + > Dimitris Chloupis > wrote: > > > Well there is a move towards Pillar for class and method commands so >

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

Am 13.10.2017 5:50 PM schrieb "Andrew Glynn" : I can't remember ever using API docs in *any* language, dynamic or not. They give you the method signatures, but if you have, say, methodX(int, int, String), how are you supposed to guess what ints and what String the method

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

Hi ricardo - You can ship pharo without sources. In fact the sources are not used during execution (just for the human). - You can ship pharo without debugger. This is one line of code. - Soon we expect to be able to remove the compiler and the decompiler :). - You can also control that the

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem with input to XML Parser - 'Invalid UTF8 encoding'

Tx On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 7:29 AM, monty wrote: > I know what the problem is and will have it fixed shortly. Thanks for the > report. > >> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 at 9:03 AM >> From: "Peter Kenny" >> To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org >>

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

I can't remember ever using API docs in any language, dynamic or not.  They give you the method signatures, but if you have, say, methodX(int, int, String), how are you supposed to guess what ints and what String the method actually needs, unless the methods are nothing but getters and setters

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

Superb! On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Ricardo Pacheco wrote: > Great, I will have a look at them. I registered to participate in the MOOC > starting on Oct 16, so look forward to contribute back a bit. > > Ricardo > > > > -- > Sent from:

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

epub already works. Now it should be improved. Doing an pandoc exporter should not be that difficult. If you do it I will integrate it. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Gour wrote: > On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:18:54 + > Dimitris Chloupis > wrote: > >>

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

The production company told us that it was super strange without our voices. Now you can also have the french + subtitles. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > I played C019SD-W1-S1-EN-V1.mp4 > and as well as the english voice, in the background I can still

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

I don’t care about Python vs Pharo debate. I love both I use both. My ultimate goal is to unite the two under a single Uber powerful live coding environment part of my project Atlas. With direct mapping between Pharo and Python objects and no compromises. A workflow that will be seamless that you

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

The first language I played with, I was nearly 5, was a live environment, Forth.  I used it on an old PDP my mother had bought that was being surplused at the company she worked at.  I used Forth until I was in my early teens, it was far superior to the BASIC that most other kids I knew who knew

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

Am 12.10.17 um 20:04 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis: Eclispe , which I will disagree with your that is not the worst IDE, started as a smalltalk IDE and then it got Eclipsed. I am sure those people had a "build on" environment , still it got messy. We can blame porting to Java, but can we

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

I completely agree with Ben. As for Dimitris, I have some points: There numerous reason why this kind of thinking is fundamental flawed, if > not completely wrong > > 1) How you get people to run in this race ? > > 2) What makes you think that people participating in the race doing to get >

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

Modularisation is coming whether you like it or not its called Bootstrap And the more modular the image will get the more will get closer to namespaces anyway. So frankly all I have to do is wait and if I can of course contribute ;) You can call it Bootstrap or the Pink Elephant for all I care,

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

You're mixing modularization, namespacing, packaging and parametrization. If we're speaking about modules/namespaces I rather call them as such, not Pink Elephant. Having an agreement on the terms semantic is important for any communication. To me a module is not a factorization for the

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

Hi, I have created a document in Grafoscopio. The source file is a single Grafoscopio notebook in STON [1] (~600kb), the output is a single Pandoc's Markdown file[2] (~500kb), and you can produce the output as a PDF file like in [3] (~13Mb). Pandoc has a lot of maturity and a community with a lot

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

Great, I will have a look at them. I registered to participate in the MOOC starting on Oct 16, so look forward to contribute back a bit. Ricardo -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

[Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

IMHO, one important aspect to deliver comercial solutions for customers in an environment like Pharo is to be able to protect certain code or algorithms developed by the company. It possible to have some clases compiled and closed to the eyes of customers? Or it is posible to have some kind of

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

Well oh Well, Python is stupid Very, very stupid To my suprise live coding in Python its actually easier to what I expected and almost the same, from user perspective to that of pharo.Minus the IDE conveiniece of course. But a pain in the hat to find the proper way to do it. I was reloading

[Pharo-users] Bloc Example Errors & question

I was reviewing the Bloc examples because I'm looking for a way to connect several blocks like this: . The idea is that if I move the block, the link with other blocks is kept. I could not find any similar example. Any hint would be appreciated.

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

If you make a morph maximise and pin it down, it will cover the entire pharo windows and wont be movable and will make it impossible for the user to interact with the IDE even via shorcuts. If I am wrong on shortcuts I hope someone correct me but last time I checked that was the case. Command

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

I have to confess I am a fan of the french accent english too , it has a nice musicality in it +1 for subtitles. I love accents, the more the better :D On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:28 PM Stephane Ducasse wrote: > In fact the files have two tracks. > > > On Fri, Oct 13,

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

2017-10-13 22:04 GMT+02:00 Andrew Glynn : > I understand why it occurs, both the private and the final keyword > affect the reference rather than the object. However, to quote someone > else "That the value of a private field can be changed without a public > setter implies

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

Hello It would be super great :) the files are in the github repo https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoMooc/tree/master/Subtitles Stef On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, Ricardo Pacheco wrote: > Hello Stephane, I can help with the Spanish subtitles.

Re: [Pharo-users] Zinc release?

Herby, > On 13 Oct 2017, at 14:37, Herby Vojčík wrote: > > Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> >>> On 12 Oct 2017, at 15:58, Herby Vojčík wrote: >>> >>> There are a few fixes out there for Zinc, not to mention convenience like >>> ZnEntity class>> json:.

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:59:53 +0200 Stephane Ducasse wrote: > I'm about to release the en versions. > you can find them unofficially on http://www.stephaneducasse.eu/MOOC/ I've downloaded one and can I safelyassume that the 'new' videos are same content as the old ones

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

> That is a familiar path, but still an obstacle for people to get over in > trying Pharo - i.e. its a barrier of entry. I've previously referred to > this article by JoelOnSoftware, but to pull out a key part... "Think of > these barriers as an obstacle course that people have to run before you

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

Personally I dont get it, we find the path to bootstrap the pharo image clear and we cannot see the path to namespaces ? it makes zero sense to me Plus what you say, countless and countless of implementation of namespaces out there. And again what you say about perfection. If C++ can improve,

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

I could help with the Greek subtitles but I am fundamental against the idea of learning anything code wise in a non english language. It does much more damage than good. Congrats for making it so accessible and all your hard work :) On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:42 AM Gour wrote:

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

What is a VA Java ? and a VA C++ ? Call me an idiot or insane but I am in favor of combiding languages, though I only have heard of COBRA never used it. I am a lawyer by profession, I know fellow lawyers still using DOS and QBasic databases and yes under windows .. sadly very common for

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

Hi Andrew, Stephane, thanks for the read. It was interesting, albeit a bit confusing at times. I do like your evaluation of the thesis. 2017-10-12 23:10 GMT+02:00 Stephane Ducasse : > Thanks Andrew I read it fast and I will reread it. It is really > interesting to me

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

Hi Ben, > Le 13 oct. 2017 à 06:20, Ben Coman a écrit : > > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Christophe Demarey > > wrote: > Hi Vitor, > >> Le 11 oct. 2017 à 13:44, Vitor Medina Cruz

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

Hi Kilon, disclaimer: I've used Parcplace Smalltlk without namespaces, then VisualWorks with namespaces. 2017-10-13 9:08 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis : > Personally I dont get it, we find the path to bootstrap the pharo image > clear and we cannot see the path to

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

Oh good, glad the French version is still there.  I was starting to go through it a couple of weeks ago and plan to continue starting this weekend.  Although my mother tongue is English, at one point I was fluently bilingual (both Quebecois and actual French), and it's a chance to get some of it

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

In fact the files have two tracks. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Andrew Glynn wrote: > Oh good, glad the French version is still there. I was starting to go > through it a couple of weeks ago and plan to continue starting this > weekend. Although my mother tongue is

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

On 13-10-17 09:55, Thierry Goubier wrote: Because namespaces, by essence, come with serious issues. I won't take someone seriously on namespaces until he can cite those faithfully. Let's start with the misconception that namespaces are about modularisation Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

2017-10-13 10:12 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis : > fair enough you think namespaces are not the right solution, what you > think is the right solution then ? > I told you. Namespaces are a solution, but they come with issues. > > As much I hate C++ , no I will have to

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

> Am 13.10.2017 um 10:24 schrieb stephan : > > On 13-10-17 09:55, Thierry Goubier wrote: >> Because namespaces, by essence, come with serious issues. I won't take >> someone seriously on namespaces until he can cite those faithfully. > > Let's start with the misconception that

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

"Let's start with the misconception that namespaces are about modularisation Stephan " Well I can only for speak for Python because is where I used namespaces the most and the language I am most experienced with. Namespaces in python are merely objects that come with a collection of method

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

I am against the very idea of special syntax. Even python uses special syntax as nothing more than syntactic sugar to make the code more readable from the point of view of not everything looking the same. I agree with the concept of everything being an Object. I also dont like the idea that we

Re: [Pharo-users] Namespaces (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

2017-10-13 5:55 GMT-03:00 Norbert Hartl : > >> Am 13.10.2017 um 10:24 schrieb stephan : >> >> On 13-10-17 09:55, Thierry Goubier wrote: >>> Because namespaces, by essence, come with serious issues. I won't take >>> someone seriously on namespaces until he can

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

Wow, that sounds great. Thanks a lot!! Ricardo -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

I understand why it occurs, both the private and the final keyword affect the reference rather than the object. However, to quote someone else "That the value of a private field can be changed without a public setter implies that encapsulation is weak at best, and shouldn't be counted on to