Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Hello Peter Uhnak summarized this thread about what what to include of Pillar in the base image on Aug 17, 2017 ([1] original question, [2] summary). The issue of having a "Mini pillar" in the image was brought up by Stephan Ducasse and summarized by Cyril Ferlicot. I will start a new thread

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

This is in our plan. Have a look at Ecstatic because I want to be able to - use plain pillar - generate plain HTML There is also a little web server to display your ecstatic web site. All this is rudimentary. We use mustache for the templating. Stef On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Tim

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Jimmie et al. nicely reasoned arguments - and Doru's point about controlling the syntax is an interesting one that I hadn’t thought about. Personally, I find having too many similar syntax’s confusing - contributing to things is hard enough - having to remember that its !! Instead of ## and “”

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

TL;DR Main points: Their is no universally accepted markup language. Other communities use their own markup and tools and their markup and tools choice is not determine by other communities decisions. We need a language and tool chain that we can control and maintain which accomplishes our

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

again, I think this is a discussion for pharo-dev. Please keep it there (is good discussion, btw ;) ). What about my proposal of including a tiny PetitParser? (it would be “InfimeParser” :P) Esteban > On 14 Aug 2017, at 11:10, Tudor Girba wrote: > > Hi Tim, > > The

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Hi Tim, The main benefit of relying on Pillar is that we control its syntax and can easily extend it for our purposes. Also, there was quite a bit of engineering invested in it, and even though we still need to improve it, there exists a pipeline that allows people to quickly publish books.

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Hi Stef - I think your’s is a fair requirement (in fact I hit something similar when doing a static website using a JS markdown framework - and this is why I mentioned Kramdown which adds a few extras to regular markdown - but it feels like it goes a bit too far). My next item on my learning

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Hi tim I personally do not care much about the syntax but I care about what I can do with it (ref, cite, ... ) I cannot write books in markdown because reference to figures!! were missing. And of course a parser because markdown is not really nice to parse and I will not write a parser

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Hi, > Am 11.08.2017 um 21:10 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano : > > hi, > >> On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. > > wrote: >> >> Another step would be to get a minimal parser not relying on >> PetitParser. >

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

> On 12 Aug 2017, at 18:22, Guillermo Polito wrote: > > Esteban, I think that when Stef says "a mini version of pillar" he does not > mean a mini version of the parser or the AST, but a version that does not > have the exporting to html/latex/… I know that. But

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Esteban, I think that when Stef says "a mini version of pillar" he does not mean a mini version of the parser or the AST, but a version that does not have the exporting to html/latex/... On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > and btw, this kind of

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

and btw, this kind of threads belongs to pharo-dev, not to pharo-users :) Esteban > On 12 Aug 2017, at 16:35, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > >> On 12 Aug 2017, at 12:46, Tudor Girba wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I would very much like this path. What would

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

> On 12 Aug 2017, at 12:46, Tudor Girba wrote: > > Hi, > > I would very much like this path. What would constitute tiny? no idea, we need to think on it :) but I see no point in create a new (even small) parser/scanner each time we need one. At the end you have several

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Hi, I would very much like this path. What would constitute tiny? Cheers, Doru > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > hi, > >> On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: >> >> Another step would be to get a

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Of course, I/we recognise and appreciate all the work that's gone into docs in pillar - but I think it should be reasonably straightforward to write a converter as it is pretty closely related from what I have seen. So I don't make the suggestion flippantly, and would want to help write a

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

A long time issue with Markdown was that there was no standardization (and when I used Pillar's MD export ~2 years ago it didn't work well). However CommonMark ( http://spec.commonmark.org/0.28/ ) has become the de-facto standard, so it would make sense to support it bidirectionally with

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Hi, I would go both suggestions of including both support for PetitParser (Esteban's ) and Markdown (Tim's) . Having our own syntax for documentation would make us more insular. In the same way that support for Git is strategical in wider acceptance and visibility (even if we use other DVCS like

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

If we are considering this, might we take the hard decision to actually support proper markdown (or even kramdown if we need more control). Pillar is a weird variant that isn't like everyone else - so i always have to think about how to do formatting. I know it's not nice, and lots of things

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 09:14:01PM +0200, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > > On 11 Aug 2017, at 21:10, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > > > hi, > > > >> On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. >> > wrote: > >> >

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

> On 11 Aug 2017, at 21:10, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > hi, > >> On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. > > wrote: >> >> Another step would be to get a minimal parser not relying on >> PetitParser. > >

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

hi, > On 11 Aug 2017, at 18:57, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > > Another step would be to get a minimal parser not relying on > PetitParser. Let’s think differently: why not to include a tiny PetitParser? Then we can think on: - pillar sintax (better than just a

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

The idea is neat! Usually, I write my README.md through the interface of GitHub. But indeed, if Git and inline documentation are central to Pharo, then having a mini-pillar in the base image would make sense. Anyway, Pillar definitely needs to be improved. Everything that goes in that

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

What I meant is that I have a readme, e.g. https://github.com/OpenPonk/xmi , which contains * Pharo code examples * images * References to Pharo code (class names, etc.) But if the code changes (renames, API changes, different UI), I have to manually update the README. There is also no way for

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Le 11/08/2017 à 19:19, Stephane Ducasse a écrit : > Cyril > > the ** can be used to point to another class for example acting as a ref. > > Stef > > I though it would be kept for real links to web urls. -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr http://www.synectique.eu 2 rue Jacques Prévert

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Cyril the ** can be used to point to another class for example acting as a ref. Stef On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 7:15 PM, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > Le 11/08/2017 à 19:12, Cyril Ferlicot D. a écrit : >> >> We might want to add some syntax only for class comment and not

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Le 11/08/2017 à 19:12, Cyril Ferlicot D. a écrit : > > We might want to add some syntax only for class comment and not Pillar > itself. For example to be able to reference a class in Pharo and get a > link to the class during the rendering. > > I think that we might also want the formats (bold,

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Le 11/08/2017 à 19:09, Stephane Ducasse a écrit : > Tx cyril > > For class comment I image that we want > > ! > > - > - > *url* > and bold > [[[ > > ]]] > > Did I miss something. > > Stef > > > We might want to add some syntax only for class comment and not Pillar itself. For example to

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Tx cyril For class comment I image that we want ! - - *url* and bold [[[ ]]] Did I miss something. Stef On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > Le 11/08/2017 à 18:52, Peter Uhnak a écrit : >> Hi, >> >> I would like to propose including Pillar

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Let us rephrase it: - I would like to have a mini pillar with a simplified model and visitor to display class comments. - then think about Pharo 70 as the core and birth of a new generation of imageS I will restart to revisit Pillar once I'm done with the Lecture at Prague. Stef On Fri, Aug

Re: [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Le 11/08/2017 à 18:52, Peter Uhnak a écrit : > Hi, > > I would like to propose including Pillar in the Pharo image by default. > > My reasoning: > > Since we are moving to git, and most people will use github, gitlab, and the > likes, it is expected to include a README.md file (or possibly

[Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Hi, I would like to propose including Pillar in the Pharo image by default. My reasoning: Since we are moving to git, and most people will use github, gitlab, and the likes, it is expected to include a README.md file (or possibly more extensive documentation) alongside the code. Which means