Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Okay, may be I just understood wrongly what it is about, or my expectation are not correctly aligned. Le 13/03/2018 à 19:22, Stephane Ducasse a écrit : Hilaire I do not have the answer and I do not know but you should have a look at the bash script. Because this is where the logic is. I will

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Thanks Marcus! Le 09/03/2018 à 08:12, Marcus Denker a écrit : we should again do some analysis where space is going… the Pharo7 download is now 38MB (the image, decompressed). down to 36,4 MB in the latest build. -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Simple explanation about the process will be a good start. For example what is a baseline in the image building? Like in the ConfigurationOf...? Le 13/03/2018 à 20:24, Guillermo Polito a écrit : I'll take a look at this from tomorrow morning till the end of the week. -- Dr. Geo

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Thanks! Doru > On Mar 13, 2018, at 8:24 PM, Guillermo Polito > wrote: > > I'll take a look at this from tomorrow morning till the end of the week. > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Stephane Ducasse > wrote: > Hilaire > > I do not

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

I'll take a look at this from tomorrow morning till the end of the week. On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Stephane Ducasse wrote: > Hilaire > > I do not have the answer and I do not know but you should have a look > at the bash script. > Because this is where the logic

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Hilaire I do not have the answer and I do not know but you should have a look at the bash script. Because this is where the logic is. I will discuss tomorrow with guille (right now I'm sick). Stef On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 9:34 PM, Hilaire wrote: > Le 12/03/2018 à 10:16,

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Le 12/03/2018 à 10:16, Guillermo Polito a écrit : That said, I would also like to have a smaller and more malleable system, in that I agree with you, but that takes time and work, and I see few people that is diving in the insides of Pharo to help get us something in that direction. Not

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 11:44 AM, Hilaire wrote: > Le 06/03/2018 à 11:55, Guillermo Polito a écrit : > >> >> In any case, I only wanted to say that it is unfair to say that Pharo is >> big when "you only load your packages". >> And I feel that's not true, if you're using the

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Le 06/03/2018 à 11:55, Guillermo Polito a écrit : In any case, I only wanted to say that it is unfair to say that Pharo is big when "you only load your packages". And I feel that's not true, if you're using the graphical environment, you need display, bitblt, morphic, widgets. As soon as you

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

> On 2 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Marcus Denker wrote: > > > >> On 2 Mar 2018, at 21:31, Hilaire > > wrote: >> >> Ah, you are right it is a 32bits image. >> >> My bad, Dr.Geo does not build with 64bits image

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

A "How to" as we used to have at the linux early time will be very helpful to get started. When I tried on this last summer I lost myself and gave up. Hilaire Le 06/03/2018 à 11:55, Guillermo Polito a écrit : For a more detailed list, you can browse BaselineOfPharoBootstrap. If you want an

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

> > > Now, I understand we could build images without development tools, but for > that there is some work needed (not only from the pharo side but also from > the developer's point of view). > In the file server you can download latest minimal images both 32 and 64 > bits

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Hi hilaire I think that Pavel sent around a link with the bootstrapped image. For you, you do not want to play changing the bootstrap. What you want is to change and load your own customized baselines on top of the bootstrapped image (probably the one with compiler and Monti/metacello loaded). I

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

>From the 90's there is the work of Ole Agesen, using type inference to detect (not) dead code and build SELF images. http://dblp.uni-trier.de/pers/hd/a/Agesen:Ole In any case, I only wanted to say that it is unfair to say that Pharo is big when "you only load your packages". And I feel that's

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Maybe this: https://rmod.inria.fr/web/publications/bib?query=Poli17c=abstract Guillermo Polito, Luc Fabresse, Noury Bouraqadi, and Stéphane Ducasse. Run-Fail-Grow: Creating Tailored Object-Oriented Runtimes Producing a small deployment version of an application is a challenge because static

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

yes, Mariano Peck made a PhD on that (when we were exploring “how to get smaller images” possibilities). We finally went for bootstrap, but we made an analysis on all possibilities around. Maybe he can point to it… Esteban > On 6 Mar 2018, at 04:35, Sean P. DeNigris

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Marcus Denker-4 wrote > (I had expected a bit more). I think I definitely read somewhere that there was a system that could analyze the messages that were actually sent and remove everything else... fun to think about the possibilities! - Cheers, Sean -- Sent from:

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Thanks Markus. I already saw an improvement when building drgeo against latest 32bits P7: drgeo image down to 39.9MB... I use image cleaner plus some packages removal of my own[1], left over of the cleaning I was doing on P3. Many of my package cleaning of P4 break on P7. There is still

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Yes and it will be a lot more than that. We have a better core. Then we will continue to make it smaller. It means that with a bunch of BaselineOf you should be able to create the Pharo that suits your needs. Now we will do it for people :). I think that copying the BaselineOf and removing some

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

> On 4 Mar 2018, at 17:46, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list wrote >> Estaban, >> I guess there are some advantages to shrink the image (as compared to >> bootstrapping from a minimal image) > > Also, they are not mutually exclusive. While

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list wrote > Estaban, > I guess there are some advantages to shrink the image (as compared to > bootstrapping from a minimal image) Also, they are not mutually exclusive. While bootstrapping seems a clear choice for building images. A tool could then scan an image

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

On 4 March 2018 at 20:08, Hilaire wrote: > Le 04/03/2018 à 11:13, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : > >> In our community, Pavel is the person that has the bigger experience on >> shrinking process images. I followed his work for years and I know the >> fragility of the process.

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

But the building process is working and we can incrementally create custom images. And this is what we will use in the future but we will not build the image that suits everybody needs. Stef On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Hilaire wrote: > Le 04/03/2018 à 11:13, Esteban

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

> > > It looks like this topic comes and goes since 20 years: new features added, > image growth then/or it becomes hard to unload ; on Squeak then now with > Pharo at a much higher rate. > > We all know about the right approach (GNU Smalltalk, CUIS Smalltalk), I will not comment on that and

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Hilaire It is up to you to give a real try. 1) Did you look for REAL at our infrastructure? Because you can take the bootstrapped image and change our build scripts. It took us may years to produce the loading scripts and this is the future. In Pharo 7 we have the possibility to have a core and

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Le 04/03/2018 à 11:13, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : In our community, Pavel is the person that has the bigger experience on shrinking process images. I followed his work for years and I know the fragility of the process. Basically each new addition/removal was breaking it and needing dependency

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

> From: Benoit St-Jean <bstj...@yahoo.com> > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>, > Esteban Lorenzano <esteba...@gmail.com> > Cc: Hilaire <hila...@drgeo.eu> > Bcc: > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 10:53:04 +0000 (UTC)

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

16:35, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: From: Benoit St-Jean <bstj...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image Date: 3 March 2018 at 16:35:19 CET To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org, Hilaire <hila...@drgeo.eu> Reply-To: Benoit St-Je

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

> On 3 Mar 2018, at 16:35, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users > <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstj...@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image > Date: 3 March 2018 at 16:35:19 CET > To: pharo-users@lists.

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Hi Hilaire, > On 3 Mar 2018, at 15:21, Hilaire wrote: > > Le 02/03/2018 à 22:52, Marcus Denker a écrit : >> >> we should again do some analysis where space is going… the Pharo7 download >> is now 38MB (the image, decompressed). > > Situation improved :) Remember P3 was just

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

--- Begin Message --- On a side note, being a long-time VW & VAST user, I've always felt the Image Stripper & Runtime Packager did a fairly good job at removing crap from the resulting image.  I don't recall ready anything substantial comparing the Pharo way (bootstrapping from a minimal image

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Le 02/03/2018 à 22:52, Marcus Denker a écrit : we should again do some analysis where space is going… the Pharo7 download is now 38MB (the image, decompressed). Situation improved :) Remember P3 was just above 20 MB There are things to look for: 1) wasted space due to not thinking about

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

> On 2 Mar 2018, at 21:31, Hilaire wrote: > > Ah, you are right it is a 32bits image. > > My bad, Dr.Geo does not build with 64bits image Pharo7.0-64bit-52a28a8 > > ConfigurationOfDrGeo class methodsFor: 'metacelUnmatched ' in string literal. > -> > > May be should try a

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Ah, you are right it is a 32bits image. My bad, Dr.Geo does not build with 64bits image Pharo7.0-64bit-52a28a8 ConfigurationOfDrGeo class methodsFor: 'metacelUnmatched ' in string literal. -> May be should try a more recent P7 64 bits image Note: 52 MB is an overlarge image size for me

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Hi Hilaire, is it possible that is the wrong image? This is a 32bits image, and it is around 52 MB, quite similar to the Pharo base image. Thanks. On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 11:27 AM, Stephane Ducasse wrote: > Thanks Pablo! and Hilaire! > > On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:30 AM,

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Thanks Pablo! and Hilaire! On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:30 AM, teso...@gmail.com wrote: > Thank you > > On 2 Mar 2018 09:23, "Hilaire" wrote: >> >> Sure, here is a DrGeo image of an unreasonnable size, you can investigage >> on: >> >>

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Thank you On 2 Mar 2018 09:23, "Hilaire" wrote: > Sure, here is a DrGeo image of an unreasonnable size, you can investigage > on: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/wc18e21p371z28f/DrGeo.app-18.01a.zip?dl=0 > > > It is a based on a P7 64bits, don't use the shipped VMs, there are

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Sure, here is a DrGeo image of an unreasonnable size, you can investigage on: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wc18e21p371z28f/DrGeo.app-18.01a.zip?dl=0 It is a based on a P7 64bits, don't use the shipped VMs, there are not matching. Thanks Hilaire Le 02/03/2018 à 09:13, teso...@gmail.com a

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

It will be great if somebody has images with this problem, and it can be shared without trouble, to share it. So we can investigate if the problem is image or vm related. On 1 Mar 2018 17:43, "Norbert Hartl" wrote: I use 64bits on Mac and I suffer from this. Today I started

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Hi norbert this is "good" to know. On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 5:42 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > I use 64bits on Mac and I suffer from this. Today I started a new image > because the old one was 1,2 GB in size and starting to behave sluggish. > > Norbert > > >> Am 01.03.2018 um

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

I use 64bits on Mac and I suffer from this. Today I started a new image because the old one was 1,2 GB in size and starting to behave sluggish. Norbert > Am 01.03.2018 um 15:55 schrieb Hilaire : > > Hi, > > Does the current 64bits VM suffers of the ever growing image

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

ok, thanks for the clarification. It is not really a concern to built and shrink DrGeo image. Hilaire Le 01/03/2018 à 16:26, Stephane Ducasse a écrit : We have a bug in the GC but this one is siply crashing the image not growing it. I think that what esteban is mentioning is that your code

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

We have a bug in the GC but this one is siply crashing the image not growing it. I think that what esteban is mentioning is that your code or some parts of Pharo may be leaking memory. We got some experience with GT for example. Stef On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 4:05 PM, Hilaire

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

Le 01/03/2018 à 16:03, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : but the “easy leaking” syndrom, yes;)  ah? -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

> On 1 Mar 2018, at 15:55, Hilaire wrote: > > Hi, > > Does the current 64bits VM suffers of the ever growing image syndrom? no. but the “easy leaking” syndrom, yes ;) Esteban > > Thanks > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > >