Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem

[Andrew Baron via Phono-L]

During your possession of this machine has it always had this issue? The 
gradual pace of the deviation points to mainspring or main (1st) wheel issues. 
Set mainsprings are uncommon on DD machines. This is usually caused by degraded 
lubricant residue on the MS or stiff material on the barrel floor or lid 
catching the spring edges. It can also be due to a wear mismatch between 1st 
wheel and worm, especially if it’s cyclic error, If these came from two 
different motors. There can be other causes, less likely. I would put my money 
on sticky mainspring.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 20, 2019, at 1:28 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s not a flutter or wow, but rather a more gradual speed change so I doubt 
> it’s the surface of the governor disk but I will recheck.   
>  
> Ron
>  
> From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron 
> via Phono-L
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:47 PM
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Cc: Andrew Baron
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem
>  
> Governor flywheel friction surface cleaned of ALL old residue, polished, and 
> fresh oil on the leather friction pads? Also, look closely at the flywheel as 
> it spins to verify that your screw loosening/tightening on the weight springs 
> indeed yielded the desired result. Run the motor as slowly as it will run 
> when making this observation, if there’s any doubt. The slower speed will 
> more readily reveal eccentricities. Check also for your problem at various 
> tensions of the mainspring — is it just as bad across the board, or more 
> noticeable when more fully wound or more relaxed? Deviations here would point 
> to mainspring coils sticking together, despite your observations. A 
> mainspring under tension, where the turns of its coils bear hard one upon the 
> other, will exhibit different behavior than what you can observe in a static 
> test. It may be necessary to do a thorough cleaning of the spring out of the 
> barrel, as well as the barrel muck itself, followed by a reinstall with 
> appropriate new lubricant. The most perfect regulating system (governor 
> setup) won’t iron out uneven delivery of power to the governor and turntable 
> platter. The underlying fault will be somewhat muted by the turntable 
> platter’s flywheel effect, so it is likely more pronounced than it would seem 
> with the platter on the spindle, and may be easier to pin down with the 
> platter removed. You’re already doing all the right things by being observant 
> and dealing with the visible issues, now look more closely for the subtler 
> ones. There are other possible causes beyond what I’ve outlined above, but 
> it’s best to check for these issues first.
>  
> Best of luck and keep us posted.
>  
> Andrew Baron
> Alpine Clock Repair, LLC
> Santa Fe
> 
> 
> On Dec 20, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L  
> wrote:
>  
> If anyone is still here on the mailing list(s)  What is your take on the 
> situation?  Problem: Edison Diamond Disc single spring motor does not keep a 
> constant speed. Spring does not seem to be caked with grease, judging from 
> the several inner coils one can pull out without having the whole spring out. 
> A small amount of grease was added. Old grease under the bull gear plate was 
> removed and fresh grease added. Governor screws have been loosened, and 
> tightened after the governor has spun around for a while. bearing points are 
> well oiled, gears lightly greased. Solution(s)?
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Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem

[Ron L'Herault via Phono-L]

Yes, governor pads were oiled and checked to confirm full motion of both
pads and the yoke to which they mount.

 

Ron

 

From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Ken Brekke
via Phono-L
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:42 PM
To: Ron L'Herault via Phono-L
Cc: Ken Brekke
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem

 

On 12/20/2019 10:08 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote:

If anyone is still here on the mailing list(s)  What is your take on the
situation?  Problem: Edison Diamond Disc single spring motor does not keep a
constant speed. Spring does not seem to be caked with grease, judging from
the several inner coils one can pull out without having the whole spring
out. A small amount of grease was added. Old grease under the bull gear
plate was removed and fresh grease added. Governor screws have been
loosened, and tightened after the governor has spun around for a while.
bearing points are well oiled, gears lightly greased. Solution(s)?






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Maybe a weak spring?  Have you oiled the governor friction pads?

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Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem

[Ron L'Herault via Phono-L]

It’s not a flutter or wow, but rather a more gradual speed change so I doubt 
it’s the surface of the governor disk but I will recheck.

 

Ron

 

From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron 
via Phono-L
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:47 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Cc: Andrew Baron
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem

 

Governor flywheel friction surface cleaned of ALL old residue, polished, and 
fresh oil on the leather friction pads? Also, look closely at the flywheel as 
it spins to verify that your screw loosening/tightening on the weight springs 
indeed yielded the desired result. Run the motor as slowly as it will run when 
making this observation, if there’s any doubt. The slower speed will more 
readily reveal eccentricities. Check also for your problem at various tensions 
of the mainspring — is it just as bad across the board, or more noticeable when 
more fully wound or more relaxed? Deviations here would point to mainspring 
coils sticking together, despite your observations. A mainspring under tension, 
where the turns of its coils bear hard one upon the other, will exhibit 
different behavior than what you can observe in a static test. It may be 
necessary to do a thorough cleaning of the spring out of the barrel, as well as 
the barrel muck itself, followed by a reinstall with appropriate new lubricant. 
The most perfect regulating system (governor setup) won’t iron out uneven 
delivery of power to the governor and turntable platter. The underlying fault 
will be somewhat muted by the turntable platter’s flywheel effect, so it is 
likely more pronounced than it would seem with the platter on the spindle, and 
may be easier to pin down with the platter removed. You’re already doing all 
the right things by being observant and dealing with the visible issues, now 
look more closely for the subtler ones. There are other possible causes beyond 
what I’ve outlined above, but it’s best to check for these issues first.

 

Best of luck and keep us posted.

 

Andrew Baron

Alpine Clock Repair, LLC

Santa Fe





On Dec 20, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L  
wrote:

 

If anyone is still here on the mailing list(s)  What is your take on the 
situation?  Problem: Edison Diamond Disc single spring motor does not keep a 
constant speed. Spring does not seem to be caked with grease, judging from the 
several inner coils one can pull out without having the whole spring out. A 
small amount of grease was added. Old grease under the bull gear plate was 
removed and fresh grease added. Governor screws have been loosened, and 
tightened after the governor has spun around for a while. bearing points are 
well oiled, gears lightly greased. Solution(s)?

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Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem

[Ken Brekke via Phono-L]

On 12/20/2019 10:08 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote:


If anyone is still here on the mailing list(s)  What is your take on 
the situation?  Problem: Edison Diamond Disc single spring motor does 
not keep a constant speed. Spring does not seem to be caked with 
grease, judging from the several inner coils one can pull out without 
having the whole spring out. A small amount of grease was added. Old 
grease under the bull gear plate was removed and fresh grease added. 
Governor screws have been loosened, and tightened after the governor 
has spun around for a while. bearing points are well oiled, gears 
lightly greased. Solution(s)?




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Maybe a weak spring?  Have you oiled the governor friction pads?

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Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem

[Andrew Baron via Phono-L]

Governor flywheel friction surface cleaned of ALL old residue, polished, and 
fresh oil on the leather friction pads? Also, look closely at the flywheel as 
it spins to verify that your screw loosening/tightening on the weight springs 
indeed yielded the desired result. Run the motor as slowly as it will run when 
making this observation, if there’s any doubt. The slower speed will more 
readily reveal eccentricities. Check also for your problem at various tensions 
of the mainspring — is it just as bad across the board, or more noticeable when 
more fully wound or more relaxed? Deviations here would point to mainspring 
coils sticking together, despite your observations. A mainspring under tension, 
where the turns of its coils bear hard one upon the other, will exhibit 
different behavior than what you can observe in a static test. It may be 
necessary to do a thorough cleaning of the spring out of the barrel, as well as 
the barrel muck itself, followed by a reinstall with appropriate new lubricant. 
The most perfect regulating system (governor setup) won’t iron out uneven 
delivery of power to the governor and turntable platter. The underlying fault 
will be somewhat muted by the turntable platter’s flywheel effect, so it is 
likely more pronounced than it would seem with the platter on the spindle, and 
may be easier to pin down with the platter removed. You’re already doing all 
the right things by being observant and dealing with the visible issues, now 
look more closely for the subtler ones. There are other possible causes beyond 
what I’ve outlined above, but it’s best to check for these issues first.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

Andrew Baron
Alpine Clock Repair, LLC
Santa Fe

> On Dec 20, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L  
> wrote:
> 
> If anyone is still here on the mailing list(s)  What is your take on the 
> situation?  Problem: Edison Diamond Disc single spring motor does not keep a 
> constant speed. Spring does not seem to be caked with grease, judging from 
> the several inner coils one can pull out without having the whole spring out. 
> A small amount of grease was added. Old grease under the bull gear plate was 
> removed and fresh grease added. Governor screws have been loosened, and 
> tightened after the governor has spun around for a while. bearing points are 
> well oiled, gears lightly greased. Solution(s)?
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[Phono-L] Edison DD problem

[Ron L'Herault via Phono-L]

If anyone is still here on the mailing list(s)  What is your take on the
situation?  Problem: Edison Diamond Disc single spring motor does not keep a
constant speed. Spring does not seem to be caked with grease, judging from
the several inner coils one can pull out without having the whole spring
out. A small amount of grease was added. Old grease under the bull gear
plate was removed and fresh grease added. Governor screws have been
loosened, and tightened after the governor has spun around for a while.
bearing points are well oiled, gears lightly greased. Solution(s)?

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