Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
You are quite welcome. Keep in mind that this finishing technique was applied by very low cost labor provided with minimum training and most were paid on a per-piece finished basis. For bare wood the usual prep was to stain it with a thin cut of shellac with dye in it. This colored shellac was actually the 2nd coat as the first coat was just a plain wash coat to seal the wood.Between coats a very light sanding with extra fine flint paper to cut off the nubs that pop up. On 1/13/19 12:33 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: I definitely didn't see any of that the first time around! Wow, this really gives me something to work with, thank you! I'll try a couple spare pieces of wood for practice. Thanks, Rich! And thank you for sending it again! Robert On Jan 13, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Rich via Phono-L wrote: That is why I resent the info. E-mail is an unreliable communications medium at best. Generally speaking the base coats are highly thinned filtered buglac which is the basic shellac that once dissolved has to set for 2-3 days for the wax and bug parts to settle out. This has a rich red-amber color and it then thinned to the consistency of water, use a high dollar professional watercolor brush only for best results. Apply enough coats of shellac to almost fill the blemish and then use the violin varnish for the top coat. Use rottenstone and hard felt pad with paraffin oil to clean up the edges once varnish has dried. Using Behlen Behcol thinner is highly recommended, do not use cheap methanol as a substitute. If Behcol thinner is not obtainable then use Everclear from liquor store. This sounds complex but it actually goes very fast and easy once you collect all the materials. Google can find the Behlen products. https://www.shellac.net/ <-buglac source & Behlen products --Rich On 1/13/19 5:17 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the info. *From:* Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM *To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org *Cc:* Rich *Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. --Rich On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
I definitely didn't see any of that the first time around! Wow, this really gives me something to work with, thank you! I'll try a couple spare pieces of wood for practice. Thanks, Rich! And thank you for sending it again! Robert On Jan 13, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Rich via Phono-L wrote: > That is why I resent the info. E-mail is an unreliable communications medium > at best. > > Generally speaking the base coats are highly thinned filtered buglac which is > the basic shellac that once dissolved has to set for 2-3 days for the wax and > bug parts to settle out. This has a rich red-amber color and it then thinned > to the consistency of water, use a high dollar professional watercolor brush > only for best results. Apply enough coats of shellac to almost fill the > blemish and then use the violin varnish for the top coat. Use rottenstone and > hard felt pad with paraffin oil to clean up the edges once varnish has dried. > Using Behlen Behcol thinner is highly recommended, do not use cheap methanol > as a substitute. If Behcol thinner is not obtainable then use Everclear from > liquor store. This sounds complex but it actually goes very fast and easy > once you collect all the materials. Google can find the Behlen products. > https://www.shellac.net/ <-buglac source & Behlen products > > --Rich > > On 1/13/19 5:17 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: >> I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the info. >> >> *From:* Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L >> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM >> *To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org >> *Cc:* Rich >> *Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! >> I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. >> The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be >> difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac >> followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. >> The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing >> technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material >> that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying >> type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. >> --Rich >> On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: >>> Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most >>> of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the >>> arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the >>> hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it >>> so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with >>> 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against >>> any kind of moisture left over. >>> Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit >>> involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? >>> Thanks, >>> Robert >>> On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L >>> mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: >>>> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >>>> finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >>>> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use >>>> polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to >>>> avoid squeal. >>>> Ron >>> ___ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.org >>> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
I use the Testors gold model paint to touch up lines on Edison Cylinders and have used it in combination with water colors and a final coat of shellac to restore damaged Edison banners. Ron L -Original Message- From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 7:56 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! Testors Airplane Dope is a liquid and not airplane glue. It is basically a lacquer and it dries rock hard and also shrinks so no brush marks and ripples. Testors also supplies a thinner for it. On 1/13/19 6:47 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: > What would you use to thin airplane glue? Any normal paint thinner? > > *From:* Phono-L on behalf of Rich via > Phono-L > *Sent:* Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:51:58 PM > *To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org > *Cc:* Rich > *Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! > No, that is cabinet finish. Gold plating was usually coated with thinned > cellulose lacquer. Fingernail polish also contains oil so it is a bit > soft and true cellulose lacquer is rather tough to come by bet bet is > Testors thinned clear airplane dope from you local hobby shop. > > On 1/13/19 2:44 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: >> And that would have been applied to metal finished parts? >> >> Ron L >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via >> Phono-L >> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:39 PM >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >> Cc: Rich >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! >> >> I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. >> >> The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be >> difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac >> followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. >> >> The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing >> technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material >> that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying >> type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. >> >> --Rich >> >> On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: >>> Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get >>> most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was >>> that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but >>> I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk >>> that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the >>> moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of >>> it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. >>> >>> Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a >>> bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L >>> mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: >>> >>>> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >>>> finish. Id use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >>>> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not >>>> use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the >>>> pad to avoid squeal. >>>> Ron >>> >>> ___ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.org >>> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >>> >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> >> > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
Testors Airplane Dope is a liquid and not airplane glue. It is basically a lacquer and it dries rock hard and also shrinks so no brush marks and ripples. Testors also supplies a thinner for it. On 1/13/19 6:47 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: What would you use to thin airplane glue? Any normal paint thinner? *From:* Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L *Sent:* Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:51:58 PM *To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org *Cc:* Rich *Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! No, that is cabinet finish. Gold plating was usually coated with thinned cellulose lacquer. Fingernail polish also contains oil so it is a bit soft and true cellulose lacquer is rather tough to come by bet bet is Testors thinned clear airplane dope from you local hobby shop. On 1/13/19 2:44 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: And that would have been applied to metal finished parts? Ron L -Original Message- From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:39 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. --Rich On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
What would you use to thin airplane glue? Any normal paint thinner? From: Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:51:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! No, that is cabinet finish. Gold plating was usually coated with thinned cellulose lacquer. Fingernail polish also contains oil so it is a bit soft and true cellulose lacquer is rather tough to come by bet bet is Testors thinned clear airplane dope from you local hobby shop. On 1/13/19 2:44 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: > And that would have been applied to metal finished parts? > > Ron L > > -Original Message- > From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via > Phono-L > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:39 PM > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Cc: Rich > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! > > I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. > > The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be > difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac > followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. > > The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing > technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material > that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying > type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. > > --Rich > > On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: >> Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get >> most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was >> that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but >> I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk >> that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the >> moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of >> it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. >> >> Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a >> bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Robert >> >> >> >> On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L >> mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: >> >>> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >>> finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >>> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not >>> use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the >>> pad to avoid squeal. >>> Ron >> >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
No, that is cabinet finish. Gold plating was usually coated with thinned cellulose lacquer. Fingernail polish also contains oil so it is a bit soft and true cellulose lacquer is rather tough to come by bet bet is Testors thinned clear airplane dope from you local hobby shop. On 1/13/19 2:44 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: And that would have been applied to metal finished parts? Ron L -Original Message- From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:39 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. --Rich On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
Reading this I can see that you are talking about wood finishes. Ron L -Original Message- From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 9:20 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! That is why I resent the info. E-mail is an unreliable communications medium at best. Generally speaking the base coats are highly thinned filtered buglac which is the basic shellac that once dissolved has to set for 2-3 days for the wax and bug parts to settle out. This has a rich red-amber color and it then thinned to the consistency of water, use a high dollar professional watercolor brush only for best results. Apply enough coats of shellac to almost fill the blemish and then use the violin varnish for the top coat. Use rottenstone and hard felt pad with paraffin oil to clean up the edges once varnish has dried. Using Behlen Behcol thinner is highly recommended, do not use cheap methanol as a substitute. If Behcol thinner is not obtainable then use Everclear from liquor store. This sounds complex but it actually goes very fast and easy once you collect all the materials. Google can find the Behlen products. https://www.shellac.net/ <-buglac source & Behlen products --Rich On 1/13/19 5:17 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: > I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the > info. > > *From:* Phono-L on behalf of Rich via > Phono-L > *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM > *To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org > *Cc:* Rich > *Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! > I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. > > The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be > difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac > followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. > > The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing > technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material > that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying > type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. > > --Rich > > On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: >> Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get >> most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was >> that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but >> I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk >> that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the >> moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of >> it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. >> >> Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a >> bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Robert >> >> >> >> On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L >> mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: >> >>> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >>> finish. Id use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >>> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not >>> use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the >>> pad to avoid squeal. >>> Ron >> >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
And that would have been applied to metal finished parts? Ron L -Original Message- From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:39 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. --Rich On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: > Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get > most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was > that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but > I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk > that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the > moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of > it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. > > Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a > bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? > > > Thanks, > Robert > > > > On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L > mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: > >> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >> finish. Id use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not >> use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the >> pad to avoid squeal. >> Ron > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
That is why I resent the info. E-mail is an unreliable communications medium at best. Generally speaking the base coats are highly thinned filtered buglac which is the basic shellac that once dissolved has to set for 2-3 days for the wax and bug parts to settle out. This has a rich red-amber color and it then thinned to the consistency of water, use a high dollar professional watercolor brush only for best results. Apply enough coats of shellac to almost fill the blemish and then use the violin varnish for the top coat. Use rottenstone and hard felt pad with paraffin oil to clean up the edges once varnish has dried. Using Behlen Behcol thinner is highly recommended, do not use cheap methanol as a substitute. If Behcol thinner is not obtainable then use Everclear from liquor store. This sounds complex but it actually goes very fast and easy once you collect all the materials. Google can find the Behlen products. https://www.shellac.net/ <-buglac source & Behlen products --Rich On 1/13/19 5:17 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the info. *From:* Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM *To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org *Cc:* Rich *Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. --Rich On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the info. From: Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. --Rich On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: > Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get > most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was > that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but > I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk > that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the > moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of > it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. > > Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a > bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? > > > Thanks, > Robert > > > > On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L > mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: > >> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >> finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not >> use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the >> pad to avoid squeal. >> Ron > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
That's a great idea, thank you! If I can get these gold parts looking newish, that's what I'll do. :-) On Jan 12, 2019, at 7:09 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: They may have used clear shellac. I don’t think there were many options. In the jewelry industry, gold plate is often given a coat of clear lacquer to retard signs of wear. For parts that get touched a lot, I sometimes use a coat of clear nail polish. It flows and evens out nicely and is really tough. Ron L From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org<mailto:l-boun...@oldcrank.org>] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 4:39 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Robert Wright Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. --Rich On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
They may have used clear shellac. I don't think there were many options. In the jewelry industry, gold plate is often given a coat of clear lacquer to retard signs of wear. For parts that get touched a lot, I sometimes use a coat of clear nail polish. It flows and evens out nicely and is really tough. Ron L From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 4:39 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Robert Wright Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I'd use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. On 1/10/19 5:08 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: Hello and happy new year to everyone! Two quick questions for you: 1. What's the best way to clean the piece pictured here? (It's the auto brake and start/stop lever assembly of a later Orthophonic.) Anything safe I can soak the whole thing in without destroying the gold lacquer finish? 2. What modern, commercially available product would be the closest match to the factory finish of the cabinet if I needed to refinish, say, the top of the lid? Victor used varnish, if I'm not mistaken. I'd like to get the same satin-y finish as what they had new. Thanks as always! Robert *From:* Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L *Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2018 9:43:03 AM *To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org *Cc:* Rich *Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds Wedging sticks under the coils is not a permanent or proper fix. The fix is to vacuum fill the coils with class H insulating varnish. It is likely that these motors were never designed to operate on 120vAC which does not help either. 110vAC is not equivalent to 120vAC. I do not think anyone rebuilds these commercially, this is an antique restoration project. Might have better luck sourcing replacements that have not totally dried out and operate properly. --Rich On 12/10/18 8:53 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: ISTR that home Depot/Lowes have little bags of wooden shims, like scraps of wood shingles that might work in place of popsicle sticks (have you looked in your local grocery store for those?). Ron l -Original Message- From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2018 4:01 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Robert Wright Subject: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds Happy December, friends! Thanks again for the help with my recently-acquired 8-12. George V did the mounting bracket to be like new while Walt is working on the reproducer. I also stumbled upon a Credenza X with a good bit of cabinet damage and no reproducer, but with a clean motor and interior, with the bracketless tonearm in great shape. I can do all the woodwork on the cabinet, but the two things I could use some help with are: What's the best way to find a good machine-specific reproducer for the Credenza X? I know it's one of the best ones they made, but I can't spend $600 on it right now. What would you do? Maybe find an Orthophonic suitcase model and scavenge the 'box off it? More pressing at the moment are the motors. The 8-12's motor I've mentioned already -- has a big, loud 60Hz hum from the coils loosening their grips on the cores. I can't find anywhere popsicle sticks will even fit, and I'd rather secure them with that doping compound that motor repair guys 'paint' all over them to quiet them. Basically, I know I'm in over my head there. And the motor for the Credenza X is nearly dead silent for the hum problem, but it unfortunately has some other mechanical noise I can't figure out (a clacking purr type of noise -- maybe the governor weights coming into contact with something they shouldn't?). It's always something! So I'm hoping some of you folks know someone out there who routinely rebuilds these motors who can take my money in exchange for doing these two. Or that one of you might be willing to. I'm hoping to dope up the coils on both of them to keep them as silent as possible for decades to come, and to have them disassembled, cleaned thoroughly, and relubed with the proper grease/oil, and to have them adjusted for optimal performance with new pads for the governors (and speed indicator in the case of the Credenza). I'm happy to pay whatever is required, obviously, I just need to know who to ask. Thanks (as always) for any and all help and advice! Best, Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I'd use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 6:08 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Robert Wright Subject: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! Hello and happy new year to everyone! Two quick questions for you: 1. What's the best way to clean the piece pictured here? (It's the auto brake and start/stop lever assembly of a later Orthophonic.) Anything safe I can soak the whole thing in without destroying the gold lacquer finish? 2. What modern, commercially available product would be the closest match to the factory finish of the cabinet if I needed to refinish, say, the top of the lid? Victor used varnish, if I'm not mistaken. I'd like to get the same satin-y finish as what they had new. Thanks as always! Robert _ From: Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 9:43:03 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds Wedging sticks under the coils is not a permanent or proper fix. The fix is to vacuum fill the coils with class H insulating varnish. It is likely that these motors were never designed to operate on 120vAC which does not help either. 110vAC is not equivalent to 120vAC. I do not think anyone rebuilds these commercially, this is an antique restoration project. Might have better luck sourcing replacements that have not totally dried out and operate properly. --Rich On 12/10/18 8:53 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: > ISTR that home Depot/Lowes have little bags of wooden shims, like scraps of > wood shingles that might work in place of popsicle sticks (have you looked > in your local grocery store for those?). > > Ron l > > -Original Message- > From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert > Wright via Phono-L > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2018 4:01 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Cc: Robert Wright > Subject: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds > > Happy December, friends! Thanks again for the help with my recently-acquired > 8-12. George V did the mounting bracket to be like new while Walt is working > on the reproducer. > > I also stumbled upon a Credenza X with a good bit of cabinet damage and no > reproducer, but with a clean motor and interior, with the bracketless > tonearm in great shape. I can do all the woodwork on the cabinet, but the > two things I could use some help with are: > > What's the best way to find a good machine-specific reproducer for the > Credenza X? I know it's one of the best ones they made, but I can't spend > $600 on it right now. What would you do? Maybe find an Orthophonic suitcase > model and scavenge the 'box off it? > > More pressing at the moment are the motors. The 8-12's motor I've mentioned > already -- has a big, loud 60Hz hum from the coils loosening their grips on > the cores. I can't find anywhere popsicle sticks will even fit, and I'd > rather secure them with that doping compound that motor repair guys 'paint' > all over them to quiet them. Basically, I know I'm in over my head there. > And the motor for the Credenza X is nearly dead silent for the hum problem, > but it unfortunately has some other mechanical noise I can't figure out (a > clacking purr type of noise -- maybe the governor weights coming into > contact with something they shouldn't?). It's always something! > > So I'm hoping some of you folks know someone out there who routinely > rebuilds these motors who can take my money in exchange for doing these two. > Or that one of you might be willing to. I'm hoping to dope up the coils on > both of them to keep them as silent as possible for decades to come, and to > have them disassembled, cleaned thoroughly, and relubed with the proper > grease/oil, and to have them adjusted for optimal performance with new pads > for the governors (and speed indicator in the case of the Credenza). I'm > happy to pay whatever is required, obviously, I just need to know who to > ask. > > Thanks (as always) for any and all help and advice! > > Best, > Robert > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcr
