Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-recommended
My worry is that this change appears to have absolutely no positive aspects and only negative potential. We know browsers exist that cannot handle 4-digit years. Early WebTV boxes don't, early Netscape don't. We do not know of any browsers that cannot handle 2-digit years. Hence I fail to see the upside with this change. Well, let me restate that pure existance of software does not matter. I still have NT 4.0 with a MSIE 2 in the desk -- it exists, but you don't design applications for it anymore. It is the actual use which counts. For further confirmation of this, you just need to look at major web stores such as amazon.com. They are not afraid of making the move to 4-digit years. Let us consider two sets 1: Browsers in use which handle only 2-digit years 2: Browsers in use which handle only 4-digit years properly While both sets may be empty at this time, a safe and natural prediction is that the size of the second set will increase. The first one will not change and remain at 0 for obvious reasons. And therefore I've introduced this proactive change. - Sascha -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-recommended
If Set 1 was truly empty, I'd agree with you. -Rasmus On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: My worry is that this change appears to have absolutely no positive aspects and only negative potential. We know browsers exist that cannot handle 4-digit years. Early WebTV boxes don't, early Netscape don't. We do not know of any browsers that cannot handle 2-digit years. Hence I fail to see the upside with this change. Well, let me restate that pure existance of software does not matter. I still have NT 4.0 with a MSIE 2 in the desk -- it exists, but you don't design applications for it anymore. It is the actual use which counts. For further confirmation of this, you just need to look at major web stores such as amazon.com. They are not afraid of making the move to 4-digit years. Let us consider two sets 1: Browsers in use which handle only 2-digit years 2: Browsers in use which handle only 4-digit years properly While both sets may be empty at this time, a safe and natural prediction is that the size of the second set will increase. The first one will not change and remain at 0 for obvious reasons. And therefore I've introduced this proactive change. - Sascha -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-recommended
On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: If Set 1 was truly empty, I'd agree with you. So, amazon.com and bn.com alike are missing out business opportunities? We should tell them! :) Thus far, you only said that such software existed. Are you now saying that you are actually aware of the use of 5 years old browsers? - Sascha -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-recommended
I read the whole thread and...decided to write this. I am a happy user of Netscape 3.01 on my dev machine. Because it is quite old and i cannot afford better mobile. I have not tried netscape 4 but I think it will be slower if nnot - it will eat the whole RAM. The machine is p166/16 (not p1666/166) - 2.0.36 and php successfully compiles on it. Andrey Just my 2 eurocents. - Original Message - From: Sascha Schumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Yasuo Ohgaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-recommended On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: If Set 1 was truly empty, I'd agree with you. So, amazon.com and bn.com alike are missing out business opportunities? We should tell them! :) Thus far, you only said that such software existed. Are you now saying that you are actually aware of the use of 5 years old browsers? - Sascha -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-recommended
On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: If Set 1 was truly empty, I'd agree with you. So, amazon.com and bn.com alike are missing out business opportunities? We should tell them! :) Likely not, but given that set 2 is currently empty, where is the benefit? Thus far, you only said that such software existed. Are you now saying that you are actually aware of the use of 5 years old browsers? Like I said, I have seen WebTV hits in my logs. I currently have a couple of these: Mozilla/3.0 WebTV/2.2 (Compatible; MSIE 2.0) Obviously this is a more recent WebTV, but I have also seen 1.2's. Can you say for sure that this browser handles 4-digit years correctly? If not, you have just broken my app. -Rasmus -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-recommended
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 06:42:42AM -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: Your reasoning is that somebody will at some point write a browser that can't handle 2-digit years and thus we should risk breaking existing apps for a small percentage of users. I think we should worry about this when such a browser actually surfaces. And think of the aggregate bandwidth savings of only transferring two-digit instead four-digit ones! =) -- Jon Parise ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) :: The PHP Project (http://www.php.net/) -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 / php.ini-recommended
I saw Sascha's commit for php.ini-dist. Nobody objects it so I merged it to php.ini-recommended as it supposed to. I'm 0 for both On and Off. -- Yasuo Ohgaki Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: ; Enforce year 2000 compliance (will cause problems with non-compliant browsers) -y2k_compliance = Off +y2k_compliance = On Why do you want to break old browsers? There is no Y2K issue here, it is only a perceived Y2K issue. The 2-digit year in the cookie is interpreted correctly by all browsers. -Rasmus -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
