Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-12-01 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 19:08, Marcus Börger wrote: At 18:59 28.11.2002, Ilia A. wrote: On November 28, 2002 12:56 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Shall we still consider introducing error codes to PHP? IMO, it does not represent any enormous maintenance increase while has some positive points.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-30 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Stig S. Bakken wrote: On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 14:57, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-30 Thread Sascha Schumann
-1 on errno-style error codes. They are not versatile enough or easy to manage. They are a lot more versatile and manageable than having to use substring/regexp matching on human-readable text. What I'm going for here is a way for scripts to detect _why_ fopen fails, other than

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-30 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: -1 on errno-style error codes. They are not versatile enough or easy to manage. They are a lot more versatile and manageable than having to use substring/regexp matching on human-readable text. What I'm going for here is a way

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-30 Thread Marcus Börger
At 12:00 30.11.2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: -1 on errno-style error codes. They are not versatile enough or easy to manage. They are a lot more versatile and manageable than having to use substring/regexp matching on human-readable text. What I'm going for here is a way for

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-28 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Just an update, I have made a 117m thread on PHP-IT wondering what Italian users think of porting error messages to their language. Apparently, users seemed to be already used to English errors and this idea wasn't completely accepted by everyone (some people agreed, though). Objections to it

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-28 Thread Ilia A.
On November 28, 2002 12:56 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Shall we still consider introducing error codes to PHP? IMO, it does not represent any enormous maintenance increase while has some positive points. Do you have an effecient manner in which to implement the introduction of error codes?

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-28 Thread Marcus Börger
At 18:59 28.11.2002, Ilia A. wrote: On November 28, 2002 12:56 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Shall we still consider introducing error codes to PHP? IMO, it does not represent any enormous maintenance increase while has some positive points. Do you have an effecient manner in which to implement

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-28 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On November 28, 2002 12:56 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Shall we still consider introducing error codes to PHP? IMO, it does not represent any enormous maintenance increase while has some positive points. Do you have an effecient manner in which to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Alexander Wagner wrote: On Monday 25 November 2002 23:29, Daniel Lorch wrote: You're right. We should think about writing a colorful GUI for PHP, so scripts just can be clicked together. Oh, and it definitively should support skins.. I don't think this would work.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Alexander Wagner wrote: On Tuesday 26 November 2002 00:07, Jani Taskinen wrote: Remember. I'm talking about the people that have to be spoon-fed. Well..to be quite honest: I don't care about such people. To be honest, they tend to piss me off a little (at least

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:21:06 -0500 Sterling Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Educate users to speak the base amount of english required, I18N'ing the language is just going to lead to headaches from a user perspective (incorrect

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:15:29 -0500 Sterling Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not at all, i don't expect them to speak fluent english, just to understand the small subset of english errors and programming terms. I've conversed with plenty of

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in Italian on an English page, I simply type the error code. We need to introduce error codes in PHP, that would really solve the trouble. and it would make us enter the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Marcus Börger wrote: For example: php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, Error %d, error) would convert to: php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, PHP-42, error) and in the init code we would register these errors: register_error_message(PHP-42, Error %d)

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Yes, this is the way to go. but, I would still prefer to have to pass it only a code like: php_error(255, data, data, data); where in an XML structure we can predefine everything else. XML?!? More bloat is hardly needed, thank you! Not to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Ilia A. wrote: On November 25, 2002 08:24 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: php_error(225); whereas 255 is defined some string in many languages appering like this: Warning (255): Undefined Variable. One writes in bugs.php.net: Non dovrei ricevere questo errore:

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, George Schlossnagle wrote: By the way, could you please advise by how much I will need to increase the power of my server(s) to maintain the same level of performance? Why would this need to kill your performance if you're not throwing errors? imagine

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: Also please think about the billions of people who are not in such a privileged situation of having Internet access all the time. Think of school labs which are not permanently connected; think of poor countries where access

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Sascha Schumann
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Derick Rethans wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, George Schlossnagle wrote: By the way, could you please advise by how much I will need to increase the power of my server(s) to maintain the same level of performance? Why would this need to kill your performance if

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
PO Just to defend phpdoc a bit, this statistic is based on PO a php manual generated on April 25, 2002, which is when PO zend.com/manual/ was last updated. Also, missing functions That's not exactly true. The phpfunc is updated much more frequently than the manual (since it takes _a real lot_

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Philip Olson
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: PO Just to defend phpdoc a bit, this statistic is based on PO a php manual generated on April 25, 2002, which is when PO zend.com/manual/ was last updated. Also, missing functions That's not exactly true. The phpfunc is updated much more

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On November 25, 2002 09:22 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:11:37 -0500 Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On November 25, 2002 08:53 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Well, in this case you would just add locales like you do with dates,

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
PO Yes, phpfunc updates daily and that is good (although it continues PO to say last updated sept. 22). There are documented functions Sept. 22 is code update date (i.e., that's the last time the file structure, etc. changed). I think there indeed needs to be something more clear to state

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
And, most importantly, what the hell doi I care of losing 0.12 secs for a Fatal Error dysplay? -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] George Schlossnagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : By the way, could you please advise by how much I will need to increase the power of my server(s)

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : If my co-workers and I cannot communicate in the same language we will probably go our separate ways within a week. Afterall, how can we work together if we don't have a common language between us. By the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
It can be parsed run time at a small cost, which in this case of errors, as many here agree, can be used. -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] John Coggeshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : Because errors need to be loaded into memory by some mechanism, stored in a hash table? Meaning

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marcus Börger) wrote... : WE can use cdb (constant databse) which is very fast and we have the code bundled now. The documnet group might want work on error messages XML based. We may write a script wich will generate a cdb file from that XML file. I thought af it - I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Marcus Börger
At 11:22 26.11.2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On November 25, 2002 09:22 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:11:37 -0500 Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On November 25, 2002 08:53 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Well, in this case you would

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marcus Börger) wrote... : However i would VERY MUCH appreciate having english error messages hard coded into the source. AND those i18n error messages only activateable by an ini setting. I disagree. Leaving english

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : IMO it doesn't improve anything; people who don't want to understand undefined function also dont want to understand undefiniertes Funktion, it's all arabic techo-speak for them anyway. Then how does it help if you explain either undefined

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Marcus Börger wrote: This is something to have discussed. I am definitely not the best guy to know what is better for this case. My only point is this: ERROR STRINGS **OUT** OF THE C CODE! -MAX_LONG on this. I assume none of the php-dev coders will loose connection

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Edin Kadribasic
And, most importantly, what the hell doi I care of losing 0.12 secs for a Fatal Error dysplay? I don't like the whole idea of having localized error messages. People have to use English when programming PHP anyway, and nobody is insane enough (yet) to suggest to translate function names. I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : IMO it doesn't improve anything; people who don't want to understand undefined function also dont want to understand undefiniertes Funktion, it's all arabic techo-speak for them anyway. Then how does

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in Italian on an English page, I simply type the error code. We need to introduce error codes in PHP, that would really solve the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
XML or not XML is not yet the question. It can be something else having its own XML version. What is the browsercap then? Somthing of that nature for core PHP, but creating that file from a Documentation XML error file. -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Agreed on this. Errors can be free of code and only looked-up when triggered. -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, George Schlossnagle wrote: By the way, could you please advise by how much I will need to increase

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
I apologize for shouting, didn't mean to be offensive. What I want to say is that error messages are string and should, IMHO, be reference instead of hardcoded in the C code. -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in Italian on an English page, I simply type the error code. We need to introduce

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Marcus Börger
At 11:55 26.11.2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in Italian on an English page, I simply type the error code. We need to introduce error

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : If my co-workers and I cannot communicate in the same language we will probably go our separate ways

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Derick, that's the price of usability. Open Source always suffered from that, and forever will if the usability will not be considered as one of the main benefits, especially for a programming language as PHP. I agree on 110% that it will be harder to maintain the code. I myself will never use

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: ERROR STRINGS **OUT** OF THE C CODE! NO WAY. And don't shout on the mailinglist. I apologize for shouting, didn't mean to be offensive. What I want

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : It's giving coders more work, work which looks like documenting; and we all know that coders dont like to document. And being lazy has nothing to do with it, it's just all practical. Dont forget that

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Zeev Suraski
They should definitely be in the C code. Look at gettext as a pretty good example. Taking them out is seriously inferior to having them in - it makes maintenance much tougher, and PHP itself less robust. Suddenly, if you don't have some external file, errors would show up as stupid error

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Sascha Schumann
Since error code domains need to be centrally assigned so that they don't overlap, I'd suggest to simply set up a central data repository with assigned error code domains and a per-domain set of mappings. The error codes should be easily recognizable (%foo-123%), so that

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : IMO it doesn't improve anything; people who don't want to understand undefined function also dont want to understand undefiniertes Funktion, it's

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in Italian on an English page, I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Sascha Schumann
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: I apologize for shouting, didn't mean to be offensive. What I want to say is that error messages are string and should, IMHO, be reference instead of hardcoded in the C code. The default messages must stay; there is no need to _always_

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: It is just as true. But, there is also another side of the coin - having errors internationalized will sound like PHP-translated not only DOCS

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Zeev Suraski
At 13:05 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick, that's the price of usability. Open Source always suffered from that, and forever will if the usability will not be considered as one of the main benefits, especially for a programming language as PHP. I agree on 110% that it will be harder to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Edin Kadribasic
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list. Don't forget that there seem to be many who strongly opose your suggestion. Edin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Zeev Suraski
At 13:11 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: That sounds selfish of us, Derick. No, it doesn't. If we're going to attempt at doing something that has a high risk of screwing up PHP and slow down its QA and support, we should be mature enough to know our limits. If we don't, the ones that

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Marcus Börger
At 12:05 26.11.2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: At 13:05 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick, that's the price of usability. Open Source always suffered from that, and forever will if the usability will not be considered as one of the main benefits, especially for a programming language as PHP.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : They should definitely be in the C code. Look at gettext as a pretty good example. Taking them out is seriously inferior to having them in - it makes maintenance much tougher, and PHP itself less robust. Suddenly, if you don't have some

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Sascha Schumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : Since error code domains need to be centrally assigned so that they don't overlap, I'd suggest to simply set up a central data repository with assigned error code domains and a per-domain set of mappings. The error codes

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Daniel Lorch
hi, I fired off a mail to PHP-DE asking the average PHP user about localization of error messages. My mail might be a bit biased, so if you have something to say, do it now. I will summarize the results here. Ok, here's the summary of my NON-representative poll to PHP-De about localization

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Marcus Börger
At 09:47 26.11.2002, Derick Rethans wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Marcus Börger wrote: For example: php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, Error %d, error) would convert to: php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, PHP-42, error) and in the init code we would register these errors:

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Daniel Lorch
hi, Some thoughts that were brought up: Oh, another one: - Localization is stupid and we might lose our existing userbase, namely more proficient PHP developers- -daniel -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : At 13:11 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: That sounds selfish of us, Derick. No, it doesn't. If we're going to attempt at doing something that has a high risk of screwing up PHP and slow down its QA and support, we should be mature enough to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: These are just my thoughts of what I would see usable about it all. IMO, the current error reporting will be someday dedesigned anyway - it does need a redesign. wha? I don't see any reason why it should be redesigned at all, it's just fine as it

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Sascha Schumann
Can you guys please quit bickering and focus on the concrete proposal which is on the table. - Sascha -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Let me do the same for Italian -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daniel Lorch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : hi, I fired off a mail to PHP-DE asking the average PHP user about localization of error messages. My mail might be a bit biased, so if you have something to say, do it now.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Marcus Börger
At 12:46 26.11.2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : At 13:11 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: That sounds selfish of us, Derick. No, it doesn't. If we're going to attempt at doing something that has a high risk of screwing up PHP and slow down its QA and

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: Can you guys please quit bickering and focus on the concrete proposal which is on the table. I think starting with a concrete proposal before it's not clear if we even want this localized errors thing seems rather time-wasting. What you

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
PO It sounds like this is where the problem lives. As a reference, PO glob() was initially documented about six months ago and sha1() PO about six days. OK, I have updated the phpfunc to use new manual structure. The number of undocumented functions is down to 12% now :) -- Stanislav

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Sascha Schumann
I think starting with a concrete proposal before it's not clear if we even want this localized errors thing seems rather time-wasting. What you call bickering, I call discussing, and IMO we're not yet done discussing if we want this at all. Well, there won't be a consensus regarding i18n

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Andrei Zmievski
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list. Don't forget that there seem to be many who strongly opose your suggestion. Myself included. -Andrei

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Pierre-Alain Joye
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:57:33 -0500 Andrei Zmievski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget that there seem to be many who strongly opose your suggestion. Myself included. Same here (strongly oppose). pierre -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit:

RE: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread John Coggeshall
as to if it would be suitable to commit. John -Original Message- From: James Aylett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 6:36 AM To: 'PHP Developers Mailing List' Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Andi Gutmans
At 03:21 PM 11/25/2002 -0500, Sterling Hughes wrote: If this thread was about error messages of a C compiler, I would agree that users can be expected to understand English. That is a completely different level you are dealing with then. However, PHP needs to take beginners

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 23:42, Jani Taskinen wrote: What is so hard to understand in word 'FATAL'? If your script doesn't work, what use is it to make it show the cryptic 500 error?? I'm -10 for adding anything like this, even if and even more then if it's optional.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 02:03, Maxim Maletsky wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:18:32 +0100 (CET) Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: Frankly, so far the discussion has been primarily developer-focused, which is not too surprising.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 14:57, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list. Don't forget that there seem to be many who strongly opose your suggestion.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Sascha Schumann
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Stig S. Bakken wrote: On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 14:57, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list. Don't forget that there seem to be

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
On 27 Nov 2002 00:54:59 +0100 Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 14:57, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list. Don't

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 02:15, Maxim Maletsky wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:30:55 +0200 (EET) Jani Taskinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just forget this. I'm not native english speaker, but I REALLY don't want to see any errors in any other language but english. (does

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 12:11, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : IMO it doesn't improve anything; people who don't want to understand undefined function also

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Stig S. Bakken
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 13:31, Sascha Schumann wrote: I think starting with a concrete proposal before it's not clear if we even want this localized errors thing seems rather time-wasting. What you call bickering, I call discussing, and IMO we're not yet done discussing if we want this at

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-26 Thread Maxim Maletsky
On 27 Nov 2002 01:49:54 +0100 Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 12:11, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote: Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : IMO it doesn't

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Sterling Hughes
The question is: why would your production code have fatal errors? A fatal error occurs because of one of the following reasons: 1) parse error 2) engine instability 3) segfault (well, kinda, its nothing catchable, but it is about as fatal as you can get :) 2 3 are very very rare cases, and

RE: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread John Coggeshall
Multi-lingual error codes open's up pandora's box, let's not go there. I have to disagree with you here Sterling. Worrying about support for non-english errors in php-general, etc is a bad, bad excuse not to implement them. The benefits of a completely constant-based error system (with

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Sterling Hughes
Multi-lingual error codes open's up pandora's box, let's not go there. I have to disagree with you here Sterling. Worrying about support for non-english errors in php-general, etc is a bad, bad excuse not to implement them. The benefits of a completely constant-based error system (with

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Ilia A.
On November 25, 2002 01:58 pm, John Coggeshall wrote: Multi-lingual error codes open's up pandora's box, let's not go there. I have to disagree with you here Sterling. Worrying about support for non-english errors in php-general, etc is a bad, bad excuse not to implement them. The benefits

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Derick Rethans
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Sterling Hughes wrote: I have to disagree with you here Sterling. Worrying about support for non-english errors in php-general, etc is a bad, bad excuse not to implement them. The benefits of a completely constant-based error system (with human-friendly errors just

RE: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Mike Robinson
Sterling Hughes writes: you're missing alot. Its not inbox size, when you get multi-lingual error messages you have more than one problem. 1) Support. [snip] 2) Implementation. [snip] 3) Everything else is in english. [snip] There are other problems too, but these are the biggies.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Sascha Schumann
If this thread was about error messages of a C compiler, I would agree that users can be expected to understand English. That is a completely different level you are dealing with then. However, PHP needs to take beginners into account. Simply assuming that everyone must

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Sterling Hughes
If this thread was about error messages of a C compiler, I would agree that users can be expected to understand English. That is a completely different level you are dealing with then. However, PHP needs to take beginners into account. Simply assuming that everyone must

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Daniel Lorch
hi, What you're missing is that currently to program PHP, you need a reasonable understanding of english. [..] I agree with Sterlin. I mean, what's next? Also localize language constructs? ?php während (EUR i=0; EUR i5; ++EUR i) { ausgabe(Hallo); wenn (EUR i % 5) { [..]

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Sascha Schumann
Whereas assuming that PHP users are too stupid to understand english is not at all arrogant? :) Wrong, Sterling. Beginning PHP users might neither have formal education in computer science _nor_ foreign languages. The reason here is not about intellect; it is about requiring

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Derick Rethans
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Daniel Lorch wrote: hi, What you're missing is that currently to program PHP, you need a reasonable understanding of english. [..] I agree with Sterlin. I mean, what's next? Also localize language constructs? Dont you ever steal my jokes again :) But indeed, this

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Derick Rethans
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote: Frankly, so far the discussion has been primarily developer-focused, which is not too surprising. The developers are rarely exposed to support requests from newbies in various non-English forums. Thank god not; would you like to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Sascha Schumann
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Daniel Lorch wrote: hi, What you're missing is that currently to program PHP, you need a reasonable understanding of english. [..] I agree with Sterlin. I mean, what's next? Also localize language constructs? Daniel, Sterling is arguing in favor of having

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Sterling Hughes
Whereas assuming that PHP users are too stupid to understand english is not at all arrogant? :) Wrong, Sterling. Beginning PHP users might neither have formal education in computer science _nor_ foreign languages. The reason here is not about intellect; it is about requiring

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Marcus Börger
At 21:21 25.11.2002, Sterling Hughes wrote: If this thread was about error messages of a C compiler, I would agree that users can be expected to understand English. That is a completely different level you are dealing with then. However, PHP needs to take beginners into

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Sterling Hughes
fine - provide documentation / translations for what these error codes mean in the documentation (on a per-translation basis, or in an extra page listing all the translation). php_error_docref() already does this I believe (cookie variable, or just click on the link). php_error_docref()

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Daniel Lorch
hi, Daniel, Sterling is arguing in favor of having localized error messages. s/agree/disagree/ :) Do what you think is right. However, I think it just adds another level of unnecessary complexity. We can safely assume a certain level of intelligence when dealing with php developers

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Moriyoshi Koizumi
I'm a bit late here, with an example which probably sounds interesting; that is a computer language which was actually developed in Japan as a product mainly for educational use, which enables you to program in nearly complete Japanese syntax. I thnik it's undoubtfully great, but I have never

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread Alexander Wagner
On Monday 25 November 2002 21:55, Sascha Schumann wrote: Whereas assuming that PHP users are too stupid to understand english is not at all arrogant? :) Wrong, Sterling. Beginning PHP users might neither have formal education in computer science _nor_ foreign languages. Perfectly

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error

2002-11-25 Thread George Schlossnagle
I'm not really arguing for or against this, but since when did speaking english become a corollary of being intelligent? And even if we accept the rather ridiculous hypotheis that all php developers can comprehend english, what if they don't want to, or are more confident using their native

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