On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 19:08, Marcus Börger wrote:
At 18:59 28.11.2002, Ilia A. wrote:
On November 28, 2002 12:56 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Shall we still consider introducing error codes to PHP? IMO, it does not
represent any enormous maintenance increase while has some positive
points.
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote:
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Stig S. Bakken wrote:
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 14:57, Andrei Zmievski wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on
-1 on errno-style error codes. They are not versatile
enough or easy to manage.
They are a lot more versatile and manageable than having to use
substring/regexp matching on human-readable text.
What I'm going for here is a way for scripts to detect _why_ fopen fails,
other than
On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote:
-1 on errno-style error codes. They are not versatile
enough or easy to manage.
They are a lot more versatile and manageable than having to use
substring/regexp matching on human-readable text.
What I'm going for here is a way
At 12:00 30.11.2002, Sascha Schumann wrote:
-1 on errno-style error codes. They are not versatile
enough or easy to manage.
They are a lot more versatile and manageable than having to use
substring/regexp matching on human-readable text.
What I'm going for here is a way for
Just an update,
I have made a 117m thread on PHP-IT wondering what Italian users think
of porting error messages to their language.
Apparently, users seemed to be already used to English errors and this idea
wasn't completely accepted by everyone (some people agreed, though).
Objections to it
On November 28, 2002 12:56 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Shall we still consider introducing error codes to PHP? IMO, it does not
represent any enormous maintenance increase while has some positive
points.
Do you have an effecient manner in which to implement the introduction of
error codes?
At 18:59 28.11.2002, Ilia A. wrote:
On November 28, 2002 12:56 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Shall we still consider introducing error codes to PHP? IMO, it does not
represent any enormous maintenance increase while has some positive
points.
Do you have an effecient manner in which to implement
Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On November 28, 2002 12:56 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Shall we still consider introducing error codes to PHP? IMO, it does not
represent any enormous maintenance increase while has some positive
points.
Do you have an effecient manner in which to
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Alexander Wagner wrote:
On Monday 25 November 2002 23:29, Daniel Lorch wrote:
You're right. We should think about writing a colorful GUI for PHP, so
scripts just can be clicked together. Oh, and it definitively should
support skins..
I don't think this would work.
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Alexander Wagner wrote:
On Tuesday 26 November 2002 00:07, Jani Taskinen wrote:
Remember. I'm talking about the people that have to be spoon-fed.
Well..to be quite honest: I don't care about such people.
To be honest, they tend to piss me off a little (at least
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:21:06 -0500 Sterling Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Educate users to speak the base amount of english required, I18N'ing the
language is just going to lead to headaches from a user perspective
(incorrect
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:15:29 -0500 Sterling Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not at all, i don't expect them to speak fluent english, just to understand the
small subset of english errors and programming terms. I've conversed with plenty
of
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in
Italian on an English page, I simply type the error code. We need to
introduce error codes in PHP, that would really solve the trouble.
and it would make us enter the
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Marcus Börger wrote:
For example:
php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, Error %d, error)
would convert to:
php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, PHP-42, error)
and in the init code we would register these errors:
register_error_message(PHP-42, Error %d)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Yes, this is the way to go. but, I would still prefer to have to pass it
only a code like:
php_error(255, data, data, data);
where in an XML structure we can predefine everything else.
XML?!? More bloat is hardly needed, thank you! Not to
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Ilia A. wrote:
On November 25, 2002 08:24 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
php_error(225);
whereas 255 is defined some string in many languages appering like this:
Warning (255): Undefined Variable.
One writes in bugs.php.net:
Non dovrei ricevere questo errore:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, George Schlossnagle wrote:
By the way, could you please advise by how much I will need to
increase the
power of my server(s) to maintain the same level of performance?
Why would this need to kill your performance if you're not throwing
errors?
imagine
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote:
Also please think about the billions of people who are not in
such a privileged situation of having Internet access all the
time.
Think of school labs which are not permanently connected;
think of poor countries where access
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Derick Rethans wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, George Schlossnagle wrote:
By the way, could you please advise by how much I will need to
increase the
power of my server(s) to maintain the same level of performance?
Why would this need to kill your performance if
PO Just to defend phpdoc a bit, this statistic is based on
PO a php manual generated on April 25, 2002, which is when
PO zend.com/manual/ was last updated. Also, missing functions
That's not exactly true. The phpfunc is updated much more frequently than
the manual (since it takes _a real lot_
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
PO Just to defend phpdoc a bit, this statistic is based on
PO a php manual generated on April 25, 2002, which is when
PO zend.com/manual/ was last updated. Also, missing functions
That's not exactly true. The phpfunc is updated much more
Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On November 25, 2002 09:22 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:11:37 -0500 Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On November 25, 2002 08:53 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Well, in this case you would just add locales like you do with dates,
PO Yes, phpfunc updates daily and that is good (although it continues
PO to say last updated sept. 22). There are documented functions
Sept. 22 is code update date (i.e., that's the last time the file
structure, etc. changed). I think there indeed needs to be something more
clear to state
And, most importantly, what the hell doi I care of losing 0.12 secs
for a Fatal Error dysplay?
--
Maxim Maletsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
George Schlossnagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
By the way, could you please advise by how much I will need to
increase the
power of my server(s)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
If my co-workers and I cannot communicate in the same language we will
probably go our separate ways within a week. Afterall, how can we work
together if we don't have a common language between us.
By the
It can be parsed run time at a small cost, which in this case of errors,
as many here agree, can be used.
--
Maxim Maletsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
John Coggeshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
Because errors need to be loaded into memory by some
mechanism, stored in a
hash table? Meaning
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marcus Börger) wrote... :
WE can use cdb (constant databse) which is very fast and we have the code
bundled now.
The documnet group might want work on error messages XML based. We may
write a script
wich will generate a cdb file from that XML file.
I thought af it - I
At 11:22 26.11.2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On November 25, 2002 09:22 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:11:37 -0500 Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On November 25, 2002 08:53 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Well, in this case you would
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
IMO it doesn't improve anything; people who don't want to understand
undefined function also dont want to understand undefiniertes
Funktion, it's all arabic techo-speak for them anyway. Then how does it
help if you explain either undefined
And, most importantly, what the hell doi I care of losing 0.12
secs
for a Fatal Error dysplay?
I don't like the whole idea of having localized error messages.
People have to use English when programming PHP anyway, and nobody
is insane enough (yet) to suggest to translate function names. I
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
IMO it doesn't improve anything; people who don't want to understand
undefined function also dont want to understand undefiniertes
Funktion, it's all arabic techo-speak for them anyway. Then how does
XML or not XML is not yet the question. It can be something else having
its own XML version.
What is the browsercap then? Somthing of that nature for core PHP, but
creating that file from a Documentation XML error file.
--
Maxim Maletsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I apologize for shouting, didn't mean to be offensive. What I want to
say is that error messages are string and should, IMHO, be reference
instead of hardcoded in the C code.
--
Maxim Maletsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in
Italian on an English page, I simply type the error code. We need to
introduce
At 11:55 26.11.2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in
Italian on an English page, I simply type the error code. We need to
introduce error
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Ilia A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
If my co-workers and I cannot communicate in the same language we will
probably go our separate ways
Derick,
that's the price of usability. Open Source always suffered from that,
and forever will if the usability will not be considered as one of the
main benefits, especially for a programming language as PHP.
I agree on 110% that it will be harder to maintain the code. I myself
will never use
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
ERROR STRINGS **OUT** OF THE C CODE!
NO WAY. And don't shout on the mailinglist.
I apologize for shouting, didn't mean to be offensive. What I want
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
It's giving coders more work, work which looks like documenting; and we
all know that coders dont like to document. And being lazy has nothing
to do with it, it's just all practical. Dont forget that
They should definitely be in the C code. Look at gettext as a pretty good
example.
Taking them out is seriously inferior to having them in - it makes
maintenance much tougher, and PHP itself less robust. Suddenly, if you
don't have some external file, errors would show up as stupid error
Since error code domains need to be centrally assigned so
that they don't overlap, I'd suggest to simply set up a
central data repository with assigned error code domains and
a per-domain set of mappings.
The error codes should be easily recognizable (%foo-123%), so
that
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
IMO it doesn't improve anything; people who don't want to understand
undefined function also dont want to understand undefiniertes
Funktion, it's
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
This can be easily avoided. When I have to report an Oracle error in
Italian on an English page, I
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
I apologize for shouting, didn't mean to be offensive. What I want to
say is that error messages are string and should, IMHO, be reference
instead of hardcoded in the C code.
The default messages must stay; there is no need to _always_
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
It is just as true. But, there is also another side of the coin - having
errors internationalized will sound like PHP-translated not only DOCS
At 13:05 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick,
that's the price of usability. Open Source always suffered from that,
and forever will if the usability will not be considered as one of the
main benefits, especially for a programming language as PHP.
I agree on 110% that it will be harder to
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list.
Don't forget that there seem to be many who strongly opose your
suggestion.
Edin
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PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/
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At 13:11 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
That sounds selfish of us, Derick.
No, it doesn't. If we're going to attempt at doing something that has a
high risk of screwing up PHP and slow down its QA and support, we should be
mature enough to know our limits. If we don't, the ones that
At 12:05 26.11.2002, Zeev Suraski wrote:
At 13:05 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick,
that's the price of usability. Open Source always suffered from that,
and forever will if the usability will not be considered as one of the
main benefits, especially for a programming language as PHP.
Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
They should definitely be in the C code. Look at gettext as a pretty good
example.
Taking them out is seriously inferior to having them in - it makes
maintenance much tougher, and PHP itself less robust. Suddenly, if you
don't have some
Sascha Schumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
Since error code domains need to be centrally assigned so
that they don't overlap, I'd suggest to simply set up a
central data repository with assigned error code domains and
a per-domain set of mappings.
The error codes
hi,
I fired off a mail to PHP-DE asking the average PHP user about localization
of error messages. My mail might be a bit biased, so if you have something to
say, do it now. I will summarize the results here.
Ok, here's the summary of my NON-representative poll to PHP-De about localization
At 09:47 26.11.2002, Derick Rethans wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Marcus Börger wrote:
For example:
php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, Error %d, error)
would convert to:
php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, PHP-42, error)
and in the init code we would register these errors:
hi,
Some thoughts that were brought up:
Oh, another one:
- Localization is stupid and we might lose our existing userbase, namely
more proficient PHP developers-
-daniel
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Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
At 13:11 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
That sounds selfish of us, Derick.
No, it doesn't. If we're going to attempt at doing something that has a
high risk of screwing up PHP and slow down its QA and support, we should be
mature enough to
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
These are just my thoughts of what I would see usable about it all. IMO,
the current error reporting will be someday dedesigned anyway - it does
need a redesign.
wha? I don't see any reason why it should be redesigned at all, it's
just fine as it
Can you guys please quit bickering and focus on the concrete
proposal which is on the table.
- Sascha
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Let me do the same for Italian
--
Maxim Maletsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Daniel Lorch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
hi,
I fired off a mail to PHP-DE asking the average PHP user about localization
of error messages. My mail might be a bit biased, so if you have something to
say, do it now.
At 12:46 26.11.2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
At 13:11 26/11/2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
That sounds selfish of us, Derick.
No, it doesn't. If we're going to attempt at doing something that has a
high risk of screwing up PHP and slow down its QA and
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote:
Can you guys please quit bickering and focus on the concrete
proposal which is on the table.
I think starting with a concrete proposal before it's not clear if we
even want this localized errors thing seems rather time-wasting. What
you
PO It sounds like this is where the problem lives. As a reference,
PO glob() was initially documented about six months ago and sha1()
PO about six days.
OK, I have updated the phpfunc to use new manual structure. The number of
undocumented functions is down to 12% now :)
--
Stanislav
I think starting with a concrete proposal before it's not clear if we
even want this localized errors thing seems rather time-wasting. What
you call bickering, I call discussing, and IMO we're not yet done
discussing if we want this at all.
Well, there won't be a consensus regarding i18n
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list.
Don't forget that there seem to be many who strongly opose your
suggestion.
Myself included.
-Andrei
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:57:33 -0500
Andrei Zmievski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't forget that there seem to be many who strongly opose your
suggestion.
Myself included.
Same here (strongly oppose).
pierre
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as to if it would be suitable to commit.
John
-Original Message-
From: James Aylett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 6:36 AM
To: 'PHP Developers Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] [PATCH] Redirect on Error
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
At 03:21 PM 11/25/2002 -0500, Sterling Hughes wrote:
If this thread was about error messages of a C compiler, I
would agree that users can be expected to understand English.
That is a completely different level you are dealing with then.
However, PHP needs to take beginners
On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 23:42, Jani Taskinen wrote:
What is so hard to understand in word 'FATAL'?
If your script doesn't work, what use is it to make it
show the cryptic 500 error??
I'm -10 for adding anything like this, even if and
even more then if it's optional.
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 02:03, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:18:32 +0100 (CET) Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote:
Frankly, so far the discussion has been primarily
developer-focused, which is not too surprising.
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 14:57, Andrei Zmievski wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list.
Don't forget that there seem to be many who strongly opose your
suggestion.
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Stig S. Bakken wrote:
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 14:57, Andrei Zmievski wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list.
Don't forget that there seem to be
On 27 Nov 2002 00:54:59 +0100 Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 14:57, Andrei Zmievski wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
I rather propose. And, it seems to interest many on the list.
Don't
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 02:15, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:30:55 +0200 (EET) Jani Taskinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just forget this. I'm not native english speaker, but I REALLY
don't want to see any errors in any other language but english.
(does
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 12:11, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
IMO it doesn't improve anything; people who don't want to understand
undefined function also
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 13:31, Sascha Schumann wrote:
I think starting with a concrete proposal before it's not clear if we
even want this localized errors thing seems rather time-wasting. What
you call bickering, I call discussing, and IMO we're not yet done
discussing if we want this at
On 27 Nov 2002 01:49:54 +0100 Stig S. Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 12:11, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... :
IMO it doesn't
The question is: why would your production code have fatal
errors?
A fatal error occurs because of one of the following reasons:
1) parse error
2) engine instability
3) segfault (well, kinda, its nothing catchable, but it is about
as fatal as you can get :)
2 3 are very very rare cases, and
Multi-lingual error codes open's up pandora's box, let's not go
there.
I have to disagree with you here Sterling. Worrying about support for
non-english errors in php-general, etc is a bad, bad excuse not to
implement them. The benefits of a completely constant-based error system
(with
Multi-lingual error codes open's up pandora's box, let's not go
there.
I have to disagree with you here Sterling. Worrying about support for
non-english errors in php-general, etc is a bad, bad excuse not to
implement them. The benefits of a completely constant-based error system
(with
On November 25, 2002 01:58 pm, John Coggeshall wrote:
Multi-lingual error codes open's up pandora's box, let's not go
there.
I have to disagree with you here Sterling. Worrying about support for
non-english errors in php-general, etc is a bad, bad excuse not to
implement them. The benefits
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Sterling Hughes wrote:
I have to disagree with you here Sterling. Worrying about support for
non-english errors in php-general, etc is a bad, bad excuse not to
implement them. The benefits of a completely constant-based error system
(with human-friendly errors just
Sterling Hughes writes:
you're missing alot.
Its not inbox size, when you get multi-lingual error messages
you have more than one problem.
1) Support.
[snip]
2) Implementation.
[snip]
3) Everything else is in english.
[snip]
There are other problems too, but these are the biggies.
If this thread was about error messages of a C compiler, I
would agree that users can be expected to understand English.
That is a completely different level you are dealing with then.
However, PHP needs to take beginners into account.
Simply assuming that everyone must
If this thread was about error messages of a C compiler, I
would agree that users can be expected to understand English.
That is a completely different level you are dealing with then.
However, PHP needs to take beginners into account.
Simply assuming that everyone must
hi,
What you're missing is that currently to program PHP, you need a reasonable
understanding of english. [..]
I agree with Sterlin. I mean, what's next? Also localize language constructs?
?php
während (EUR i=0; EUR i5; ++EUR i) {
ausgabe(Hallo);
wenn (EUR i % 5) {
[..]
Whereas assuming that PHP users are too stupid to understand english is
not at all arrogant? :)
Wrong, Sterling. Beginning PHP users might neither have
formal education in computer science _nor_ foreign languages.
The reason here is not about intellect; it is about requiring
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Daniel Lorch wrote:
hi,
What you're missing is that currently to program PHP, you need a reasonable
understanding of english. [..]
I agree with Sterlin. I mean, what's next? Also localize language constructs?
Dont you ever steal my jokes again :) But indeed, this
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Sascha Schumann wrote:
Frankly, so far the discussion has been primarily
developer-focused, which is not too surprising. The
developers are rarely exposed to support requests from
newbies in various non-English forums.
Thank god not; would you like to
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Daniel Lorch wrote:
hi,
What you're missing is that currently to program PHP, you need a reasonable
understanding of english. [..]
I agree with Sterlin. I mean, what's next? Also localize language constructs?
Daniel, Sterling is arguing in favor of having
Whereas assuming that PHP users are too stupid to understand english is
not at all arrogant? :)
Wrong, Sterling. Beginning PHP users might neither have
formal education in computer science _nor_ foreign languages.
The reason here is not about intellect; it is about requiring
At 21:21 25.11.2002, Sterling Hughes wrote:
If this thread was about error messages of a C compiler, I
would agree that users can be expected to understand English.
That is a completely different level you are dealing with then.
However, PHP needs to take beginners into
fine - provide documentation / translations for what these error codes
mean in the documentation (on a per-translation basis, or in an extra
page listing all the translation). php_error_docref() already does
this I believe (cookie variable, or just click on the link).
php_error_docref()
hi,
Daniel, Sterling is arguing in favor of having localized
error messages.
s/agree/disagree/ :)
Do what you think is right. However, I think it just adds another level of
unnecessary complexity. We can safely assume a certain level of intelligence
when dealing with php developers
I'm a bit late here, with an example which probably sounds interesting;
that is a computer language which was actually developed in Japan as a
product mainly for educational use, which enables you to program in nearly
complete Japanese syntax. I thnik it's undoubtfully great, but I have
never
On Monday 25 November 2002 21:55, Sascha Schumann wrote:
Whereas assuming that PHP users are too stupid to understand english is
not at all arrogant? :)
Wrong, Sterling. Beginning PHP users might neither have
formal education in computer science _nor_ foreign languages.
Perfectly
I'm not really arguing for or against this, but since when did speaking
english become a corollary of being intelligent? And even if we accept
the rather ridiculous hypotheis that all php developers can comprehend
english, what if they don't want to, or are more confident using their
native
I'm not really arguing for or against this, but since when did speaking
english become a corollary of being intelligent? And even if we accept
the rather ridiculous hypotheis that all php developers can comprehend
english, what if they don't want to, or are more confident using their
hi,
I'm not really arguing for or against this, but since when did speaking
english become a corollary of being intelligent? And even if we accept
the rather ridiculous hypotheis that all php developers can comprehend
english, what if they don't want to, or are more confident using their
I almost agree with you, but please note that error message translation is
not always the simple thing because the word order varies by language.
For example,
Warning: Argument %1 to array_diff() is not an array in - on line %2
the above message should be translated into Japanese romaji
On Monday 25 November 2002 23:08, Daniel Lorch wrote:
I would prefer to have the developers getting used (yes, meaning
educate them) to english being a universal language, for both the
language constructs, error messages, documentation.
Don't.
You shouldn't think of PHP-users as developers in
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