Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
Marc Boeren wrote: +1 for case-sensitive everything so you volunter to rewrite all the code that uses oci or gd extension now but uses it all lowercase? ;) -- Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.six.de +49-711-99091-77 Wir stellen für Sie aus auf der CeBIT 2002 und freuen uns in Halle 6 auf Ihren Besuch am Stand H 18 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
+1 for case-sensitive everything so you volunter to rewrite all the code that uses oci or gd extension now but uses it all lowercase? ;) I didn't say +1 for lower-case everything! (although that is my preference, for functionnames at least ;-) Cheerio, Marc. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
+1 for case-sensitive everything -1. Differentiating two objects only by the case of their names seems absurd to me. This is not how humans function. I don't think people should write code that differentiates by case, but case-sensitive coding leads to consistency in naming, so you will not read MySQL_ConneCt somewhere and mysql_connect somewhere else, while it means the same thing... An unwanted side-effect is that it allows people to differentiate using case. Cheerio, Marc. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
Marc Boeren wrote: +1 for case-sensitive everything so you volunter to rewrite all the code that uses oci or gd extension now but uses it all lowercase? ;) I didn't say +1 for lower-case everything! (although that is my preference, for functionnames at least ;-) oci and gd extensions had mixed-case names for ages, but you see both mixed- and all-lower case usage all over the place now no matter how the function names themselves will be in the future, case-sensitivity will break app. half of the existing code using them we've been fighting about backwards compatibilty issues far less critical than this and usualy have decided to keep bc where possible until it really does hurt to much, all these efforts would become useless if we introduced a bc breaking change as far reaching as this just for cosmetic/esthetic reasons ... -- Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.six.de +49-711-99091-77 Wir stellen für Sie aus auf der CeBIT 2002 und freuen uns in Halle 6 auf Ihren Besuch am Stand H 18 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 11:01:21AM +, Marko Karppinen wrote : However, we need vote for if PHP5 will have case sensitive class/function/constant names. +1 for case-sensitive everything -1. Differentiating two objects only by the case of their names seems absurd to me. This is not how humans function. Ease of implementation is the only thing speaking for case-sensitiveness in my book. You have the wrong book then. Painless integration with other technologies is the main argument (.NET, SOAP, SRM [didn't forget it this time, Derick ;)]) Case-insensitiveness is always more work. But I think it's well worth the trouble. I admit it will definitely raise the bar for newbies a bit. -- Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: Marc Boeren wrote: +1 for case-sensitive everything so you volunter to rewrite all the code that uses oci or gd extension now but uses it all lowercase? ;) Andrei has been wrote conversion program. I don't know the details, but it may do better job than making all to lowercase (?) -- Yasuo Ohgaki -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: Andrei has been wrote conversion program. I don't know the details, but it may do better job than making all to lowercase (?) will it also detect and rewrite the usage of function/method names in strings used for eg. callback handlers? -- Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.six.de +49-711-99091-77 Wir stellen für Sie aus auf der CeBIT 2002 und freuen uns in Halle 6 auf Ihren Besuch am Stand H 18 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
--- Marko Karppinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, we need vote for if PHP5 will have case sensitive class/function/constant names. +1 for case-sensitive everything -1. Differentiating two objects only by the case of their names seems absurd to me. This is not how humans function. Ease of implementation is the only thing speaking for case-sensitiveness in my book. Case-insensitiveness is always more work. But I think it's well worth the trouble. Hence case-insensitive, case-preserving is my suggestion. I believe that it should be up to the developer. Add a variable in php.ini that sets a PHP instance as case sensitive. Brent __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
While I agree with Marko's vote (I'm also very much against it), I derive my conclusion from a whole different perspective. Guys, we are not next to the drawing board right now. The specs were defined and the layout was laid years ago. At this point in time we're only supposed to change something like that if there's an overwhelming reason to do it, and none of the reasons mentioned falls into that category. The reasons to move to case sensitivity and the alternative ways we should handle them, in my opinion, are: - Speed. We can probably improve the typical case so that it's not any slower in runtime. - Interaction with external component systems - we can have case sensitivity implemented at the module level, especially with the Engine 2 infrastructure, and still remain case insensitive for regular PHP objects. - It's just right. Well, I can totally agree with that, but only if we were next to the drawing board, which we're not. Zeev At 01:01 PM 2/6/2002, Marko Karppinen wrote: However, we need vote for if PHP5 will have case sensitive class/function/constant names. +1 for case-sensitive everything -1. Differentiating two objects only by the case of their names seems absurd to me. This is not how humans function. Ease of implementation is the only thing speaking for case-sensitiveness in my book. Case-insensitiveness is always more work. But I think it's well worth the trouble. Hence case-insensitive, case-preserving is my suggestion. --Marko -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
At 02:04 AM 2/7/2002, Jason Greene wrote: You left off language consistency between variable names, and function names. I consider that the 'warm fuzzy feeling' of purity, which I can totally understand and sympathize with. However, this sort of consistency between variables and function names is not mandatory, in my opinion, not mandatory enough to break compatibility in such a broad way, and after such a long time. We are already completely redesigning OO which is like standing at the drawing board. Even with the whole new object API, most of the code would work without modifications (at least mostly all of the PHP object code I got to take a look at). And if it doesn't - turning on PHP 4 compatibility should bridge the gap... Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
Hi, Even with the whole new object API, most of the code would work without modifications (at least mostly all of the PHP object code I got to take a look at). And if it doesn't - turning on PHP 4 compatibility should bridge the gap... Glad to hear that :) I have been thinking, and breaking BC _could_ be acceptable for us, but only if it is possible to run PHP4 and PHP5 side-by-side in one apache server... (Breaking BC with making everything case sensitive would introduce a nice possibility to clean up a lot of other things that were never doen to maintain BC though, but lets stick to this point for now :) Sander. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: Re: [Zend Engine 2] Case sensitivity: Conclus ion(?)]
At 06:04 PM 2/6/2002 -0600, Jason Greene wrote: On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 10:13, Zeev Suraski wrote: While I agree with Marko's vote (I'm also very much against it), I derive my conclusion from a whole different perspective. Guys, we are not next to the drawing board right now. The specs were defined and the layout was laid years ago. At this point in time we're only supposed to change something like that if there's an overwhelming reason to do it, and none of the reasons mentioned falls into that category. The reasons to move to case sensitivity and the alternative ways we should handle them, in my opinion, are: - Speed. We can probably improve the typical case so that it's not any slower in runtime. - Interaction with external component systems - we can have case sensitivity implemented at the module level, especially with the Engine 2 infrastructure, and still remain case insensitive for regular PHP objects. - It's just right. Well, I can totally agree with that, but only if we were next to the drawing board, which we're not. You left off language consistency between variable names, and function names. We are already completely redesigning OO which is like standing at the drawing board. Engine 2 will not break scripts that badly (at least not in my opinion). The OO stuff is mainly adding new functionality. Changing function names will break scripts badly. There's a huge difference. Andi -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
