php-general Digest 9 May 2009 00:15:26 -0000 Issue 6111

2009-05-08 Thread php-general-digest-help

php-general Digest 9 May 2009 00:15:26 - Issue 6111

Topics (messages 292396 through 292411):

CURL error help
292396 by: Miller, Terion
292398 by: Jônatas Zechim
292399 by: Miller, Terion
292400 by: Jônatas Zechim
292401 by: Shawn McKenzie
292402 by: Miller, Terion
292404 by: Jônatas Zechim
292405 by: Miller, Terion
292406 by: Jônatas Zechim
292411 by: Shawn McKenzie

Re: bcmath integer type?
292397 by: Michael A. Peters

Session data files
292403 by: phphelp -- kbk
292407 by: Tom Worster

Re: php-gene...@lists.php.net, Tim-Hinnerk Heuer has invited you to open a 
Google mail account
292408 by: sean greenslade
292409 by: Lenin
292410 by: sean greenslade

Administrivia:

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--
---BeginMessage---
Trying to run a script on several different pages within the same site by
making the url's an array...anyone see a better way to do this?

Trying to resolve some curl errors and need some help, here are the errors:


Notice: Array to string conversion in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/loopScrape1.p
hp on line 34

Warning: curl_setopt() [function.curl-setopt]: CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION cannot
be activated when in safe_mode or an open_basedir is set in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/loopScrape1.p
hp on line 36

cURL error number:6
cURL error:Couldn't resolve host 'Array'

And here is the code:
?php

ini_set('display_errors',
1);
include(inc/dbconn_open.php);

include(inc/dom.php);

error_reportin
g(E_ALL);

$TESTING = TRUE;


 $targets[a] =
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=A;;

$targets[b] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=B;;

$targets[c] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=C;;

$targets[d] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=D;;

$targets[e] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=E;;

$targets[f] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=F;;

$targets[g] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=G;;

$targets[h] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=H;;

$targets[i] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=I;;

$targets[j] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=J;;

$targets[k] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=K;;

$targets[l] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=L;;
 
 
 foreach
($targets as $target_url){

$userAgent = 'Googlebot/2.1
(http://www.googlebot.com/bot.html)';


$ch = curl_init();
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_USERAGENT, $userAgent);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_URL,$targets);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_FAILONERROR,
true);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION, true);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_AUTOREFERER, true);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER,true);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_TIMEOUT, 300);
$html
= curl_exec($ch);
if (!$html) {
echo br /cURL error number:
.curl_errno($ch);
echo br /cURL error: . curl_error($ch);

exit;
}


// Create DOM from URL or file
$html =
file_get_html('$target_url');

// Find table
foreach($html-find('table') as
$table)
{
foreach($table-find('tr') as $tr)
{

---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Try to change this:

curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL,$targets);

to:

curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL, $target_url);

Zechim
zechim.com
São Paulo/Brazil


-Mensagem original-
De: Miller, Terion [mailto:tmil...@springfi.gannett.com] 
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 8 de maio de 2009 09:50
Para: PHP-General List
Assunto: [PHP] CURL error help

Trying to run a script on several different pages within the same site by
making the url's an array...anyone see a better way to do this?

Trying to resolve some curl errors and need some help, here are the errors:


Notice: Array to string conversion in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/loopScrape1.p
hp on line 34

Warning: curl_setopt() [function.curl-setopt]: CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION cannot
be activated when in safe_mode or an open_basedir is set in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/loopScrape1.p
hp on line 36

cURL error number:6
cURL error:Couldn't resolve host 'Array'

And here is the code:
?php

ini_set('display_errors',
1);
include(inc/dbconn_open.php);

include(inc/dom.php);

error_reportin
g(E_ALL);

$TESTING = TRUE;


 $targets[a] =
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=A;;

$targets[b] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=B;;

$targets[c] = 

Re: [PHP] Re: bcmath integer type?

2009-05-08 Thread Robert Cummings
On Thu, 2009-05-07 at 21:45 -0700, Michael A. Peters wrote:
 Michael A. Peters wrote:
  I'm having a problem with db2 and prepared statements.
  var_dump indicates that some variables that should be type int are type 
  text.
  
  These variables are the output of bcmath equations, and are integer.
  
  Does bcmath for some reason output a text type?
  
  I can fix it by adding 0 but I want to know if I'm using bcmath 
  incorrectly.
  
 
 LOL - I would like to know if bcmath is suppose to return int (I'm 
 guessing yes so it can deal with numbers outside of fp math) but I don't 
 think that was the issue.
 
 $foo[] = Array($var1,$var2)
 
 was my problem ... notice the [] ;)

From the documentation at: 

http://ca2.php.net/manual/en/function.bcadd.php

We see that bcadd has the prototype:

string bcadd ( string $left_operand , string $right_operand [, int
$scale ] )

See the string, that's because it takes strings and returns strings.
The reason why is in the description:

Add two arbitrary precision numbers

That arbitrary part rules out integers or even floats since they are
fixed width datatypes (fixed width with respect to the number of bits
available to represent them). It may not be the case with what your
doing, but with large enough (positive or negative numbers), or numbers
with sufficient decimal places) you WILL lose precision by converting to
a real integer or floating point value.

If you don't need arbitrary precision functionality, then don't use
the bcxxx() functions since they are MUCH slower than doing normal math.

Cheers,
Rob.
-- 
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP


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[PHP] CURL error help

2009-05-08 Thread Miller, Terion
Trying to run a script on several different pages within the same site by
making the url's an array...anyone see a better way to do this?

Trying to resolve some curl errors and need some help, here are the errors:


Notice: Array to string conversion in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/loopScrape1.p
hp on line 34

Warning: curl_setopt() [function.curl-setopt]: CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION cannot
be activated when in safe_mode or an open_basedir is set in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/loopScrape1.p
hp on line 36

cURL error number:6
cURL error:Couldn't resolve host 'Array'

And here is the code:
?php

ini_set('display_errors',
1);
include(inc/dbconn_open.php);

include(inc/dom.php);

error_reportin
g(E_ALL);

$TESTING = TRUE;


 $targets[a] =
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=A;;

$targets[b] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=B;;

$targets[c] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=C;;

$targets[d] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=D;;

$targets[e] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=E;;

$targets[f] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=F;;

$targets[g] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=G;;

$targets[h] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=H;;

$targets[i] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=I;;

$targets[j] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=J;;

$targets[k] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=K;;

$targets[l] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=L;;
 
 
 foreach
($targets as $target_url){

$userAgent = 'Googlebot/2.1
(http://www.googlebot.com/bot.html)';


$ch = curl_init();
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_USERAGENT, $userAgent);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_URL,$targets);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_FAILONERROR,
true);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION, true);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_AUTOREFERER, true);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER,true);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_TIMEOUT, 300);
$html
= curl_exec($ch);
if (!$html) {
echo br /cURL error number:
.curl_errno($ch);
echo br /cURL error: . curl_error($ch);

exit;
}


// Create DOM from URL or file
$html =
file_get_html('$target_url');

// Find table
foreach($html-find('table') as
$table)
{
foreach($table-find('tr') as $tr)
{


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Re: [PHP] Re: bcmath integer type?

2009-05-08 Thread Michael A. Peters

Robert Cummings wrote:

On Thu, 2009-05-07 at 21:45 -0700, Michael A. Peters wrote:

Michael A. Peters wrote:

I'm having a problem with db2 and prepared statements.
var_dump indicates that some variables that should be type int are type 
text.


These variables are the output of bcmath equations, and are integer.

Does bcmath for some reason output a text type?

I can fix it by adding 0 but I want to know if I'm using bcmath 
incorrectly.


LOL - I would like to know if bcmath is suppose to return int (I'm 
guessing yes so it can deal with numbers outside of fp math) but I don't 
think that was the issue.


$foo[] = Array($var1,$var2)

was my problem ... notice the [] ;)


From the documentation at: 


http://ca2.php.net/manual/en/function.bcadd.php

We see that bcadd has the prototype:

string bcadd ( string $left_operand , string $right_operand [, int
$scale ] )

See the string, that's because it takes strings and returns strings.
The reason why is in the description:

Add two arbitrary precision numbers

That arbitrary part rules out integers or even floats since they are
fixed width datatypes (fixed width with respect to the number of bits
available to represent them). It may not be the case with what your
doing, but with large enough (positive or negative numbers), or numbers
with sufficient decimal places) you WILL lose precision by converting to
a real integer or floating point value.

If you don't need arbitrary precision functionality, then don't use
the bcxxx() functions since they are MUCH slower than doing normal math.



I started using them because there were a few cases where normal 
operations caused imprecision in unit conversions. With bcmath I could 
specify extra precision and then round to the precision I needed as the 
last step. Maybe there's a better way to do it but it solved the problem.


I probably don't need them in this case, I can just round down the 
result to get the integer result, but the use is so small that the 
performance hit probably isn't worth changing them and pushing it 
through testing again.


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RES: [PHP] CURL error help

2009-05-08 Thread Jônatas Zechim
Try to change this:

curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL,$targets);

to:

curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL, $target_url);

Zechim
zechim.com
São Paulo/Brazil


-Mensagem original-
De: Miller, Terion [mailto:tmil...@springfi.gannett.com] 
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 8 de maio de 2009 09:50
Para: PHP-General List
Assunto: [PHP] CURL error help

Trying to run a script on several different pages within the same site by
making the url's an array...anyone see a better way to do this?

Trying to resolve some curl errors and need some help, here are the errors:


Notice: Array to string conversion in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/loopScrape1.p
hp on line 34

Warning: curl_setopt() [function.curl-setopt]: CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION cannot
be activated when in safe_mode or an open_basedir is set in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/loopScrape1.p
hp on line 36

cURL error number:6
cURL error:Couldn't resolve host 'Array'

And here is the code:
?php

ini_set('display_errors',
1);
include(inc/dbconn_open.php);

include(inc/dom.php);

error_reportin
g(E_ALL);

$TESTING = TRUE;


 $targets[a] =
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=A;;

$targets[b] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=B;;

$targets[c] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=C;;

$targets[d] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=D;;

$targets[e] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=E;;

$targets[f] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=F;;

$targets[g] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=G;;

$targets[h] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=H;;

$targets[i] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=I;;

$targets[j] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=J;;

$targets[k] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=K;;

$targets[l] = 
http://www.greenecountymo.org/sheriff/warrants.php?search=L;;
 
 
 foreach
($targets as $target_url){

$userAgent = 'Googlebot/2.1
(http://www.googlebot.com/bot.html)';


$ch = curl_init();
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_USERAGENT, $userAgent);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_URL,$targets);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_FAILONERROR,
true);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION, true);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_AUTOREFERER, true);
curl_setopt($ch,
CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER,true);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_TIMEOUT, 300);
$html
= curl_exec($ch);
if (!$html) {
echo br /cURL error number:
.curl_errno($ch);
echo br /cURL error: . curl_error($ch);

exit;
}


// Create DOM from URL or file
$html =
file_get_html('$target_url');

// Find table
foreach($html-find('table') as
$table)
{
foreach($table-find('tr') as $tr)
{


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Re: RES: [PHP] CURL error help

2009-05-08 Thread Miller, Terion



On 5/8/09 8:04 AM, Jônatas Zechim zechim@gmail.com wrote:

Try to change this:

curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL,$targets);

to:

curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL, $target_url);

Zechim
zechim.com
São Paulo/Brazil

Thanks for the suggestion:
Tried it and get this error now:

Warning: file_get_contents($target_url) [function.file-get-contents]: failed to 
open stream: No such file or directory in 
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/inc/dom.php on 
line 39

On line #39 from my dom.php file is this :
// get html dom form file
function file_get_html() {
   $dom = new simple_html_dom;
   $args = func_get_args();
   $dom-load(call_user_func_array('file_get_contents', $args), true);
   return $dom;
}

I think somehow the array is not being read or it's trying to pass the full 
array of url's as one url? Therefore saying it does not exist? My best guess, 
am I making the array wrong?



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RES: RES: [PHP] CURL error help

2009-05-08 Thread Jônatas Zechim
Try to echo the $target_url var. What's on it?

 

 

Try to echo the $args var. What's on it?

 

 

How do you pass the $args?

 

 

 

Zechim

zechim.com

São Paulo/Brazil

 

 

-Mensagem original-
De: Miller, Terion [mailto:tmil...@springfi.gannett.com] 
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 8 de maio de 2009 10:27
Para: Jônatas Zechim; Miller, Terion; PHP-General List
Assunto: Re: RES: [PHP] CURL error help

 

 

 

 

On 5/8/09 8:04 AM, Jônatas Zechim zechim@gmail.com wrote:

 

Try to change this:

 

curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL,$targets);

 

to:

 

curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL, $target_url);

 

Zechim

zechim.com

São Paulo/Brazil

 

Thanks for the suggestion:

Tried it and get this error now:

 

Warning: file_get_contents($target_url) [function.file-get-contents]: failed
to open stream: No such file or directory in
/var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/inc/dom.php
on line 39

 

On line #39 from my dom.php file is this :

// get html dom form file

function file_get_html() {

   $dom = new simple_html_dom;

   $args = func_get_args();

   $dom-load(call_user_func_array('file_get_contents', $args), true);

   return $dom;

}

 

I think somehow the array is not being read or it's trying to pass the full
array of url's as one url? Therefore saying it does not exist? My best
guess, am I making the array wrong?

 



Re: RES: [PHP] CURL error help

2009-05-08 Thread Shawn McKenzie
Miller, Terion wrote:
 
 
 On 5/8/09 8:04 AM, Jônatas Zechim zechim@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Try to change this:
 
 curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL,$targets);
 
 to:
 
 curl_setopt($ch,CURLOPT_URL, $target_url);
 
 Zechim
 zechim.com
 São Paulo/Brazil
 
 Thanks for the suggestion:
 Tried it and get this error now:
 
 Warning: file_get_contents($target_url) [function.file-get-contents]: failed 
 to open stream: No such file or directory in 
 /var/www/vhosts/getpublished.news-leader.com/httpdocs/Warrants/inc/dom.php on 
 line 39
 
 On line #39 from my dom.php file is this :
 // get html dom form file
 function file_get_html() {
$dom = new simple_html_dom;
$args = func_get_args();
$dom-load(call_user_func_array('file_get_contents', $args), true);
return $dom;
 }
 
 I think somehow the array is not being read or it's trying to pass the full 
 array of url's as one url? Therefore saying it does not exist? My best guess, 
 am I making the array wrong?
 
 
Look at your function call in your original post:

$html = file_get_html('$target_url');

$target_url is single quoted why?


-- 
Thanks!
-Shawn
http://www.spidean.com

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Re: RES: RES: [PHP] CURL error help

2009-05-08 Thread Miller, Terion



On 5/8/09 8:49 AM, Jônatas Zechim zechim@gmail.com wrote:

Try to echo the $target_url var. What's on it?


Try to echo the $args var. What's on it?


How do you pass the $args?


I echo'd the $target_url and I got all the correct urls -did I mention this 
error reports one time for every url in the array, I am not sure if I should 
echo the $args on the dom.php page or on my page, I didn't write the dom.php 
script, it's a bit beyond my skill level.






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[PHP] Session data files

2009-05-08 Thread phphelp -- kbk

Hey, folks ---

Just something I'm curious about: When I run PHP on my development  
box (W2K), I just get one session file per connection which gets  
deleted (usually) after the session expires.


When I look at the session files on the client server (linux/apache),  
there seems to be one session file per page click. I needed to clear  
them a few minutes ago, and there are already 80+ files, and this is  
just from one user (a tester -- this is in late-late-late beta).


Now, there is nothing wrong -- everything is working fine -- I am  
just curious if Apache does this differently, or if there is a  
configuration setting that governs this (I haven't found -- but only  
did a cursory look).


Anybody willing to take the time to enlighten me?

Thank you,

Ken

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Re: [PHP] Session data files

2009-05-08 Thread Tom Worster
On 5/8/09 11:09 AM, phphelp -- kbk phph...@comcast.net wrote:

 Just something I'm curious about: When I run PHP on my development
 box (W2K), I just get one session file per connection which gets
 deleted (usually) after the session expires.
 
 When I look at the session files on the client server (linux/apache),
 there seems to be one session file per page click. I needed to clear
 them a few minutes ago, and there are already 80+ files, and this is
 just from one user (a tester -- this is in late-late-late beta).
 
 Now, there is nothing wrong -- everything is working fine -- I am
 just curious if Apache does this differently, or if there is a
 configuration setting that governs this (I haven't found -- but only
 did a cursory look).
 
 Anybody willing to take the time to enlighten me?

have you satisfied yourself that what you're seeing is not just an artifact
of how the session garbage collector works?

http://us.php.net/manual/en/session.configuration.php

maybe compare the gc parameters on the two different machines? phpinfo()
displays the values.



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Re: [PHP] php-general@lists.php.net, Tim-Hinnerk Heuer has invited you to open a Google mail account

2009-05-08 Thread sean greenslade
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Tim-Hinnerk Heuer th.he...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've been using Gmail and thought you might like to try it out. Here's
 an invitation to create an account.
 if you send me mail on here it will probably be more secure than over
 the rest of the network. just let me know what the new address will be
 in case you change mail providers.

 ---
 Tim-Hinnerk Heuer has invited you to open a free Google Mail account.

 To accept this invitation and register for your account, visit
 http://mail.google.com/mail/a-f5f2afb0c7-9207f3d89b-bd8bac4aaf494e87

 Once you create your account, Tim-Hinnerk Heuer will be notified with
 your new email address so you can stay in touch with Google Mail!

 If you haven't already heard about Google Mail, it's a new
 search-based webmail service that offers:

 - Over 2,700 megabytes (two gigabytes) of free storage
 - Built-in Google search that instantly finds any message you want
 - Automatic arrangement of messages and related replies into conversations
 - Powerful spam protection using innovative Google technology
 - No large, annoying ads--just small text ads and related pages that
 are relevant to the content of your messages

 To learn more about Google Mail before registering, visit:
 http://mail.google.com/mail/help/intl/en_GB/benefits.html

 We're still working every day to improve Google Mail, so we might ask
 for your comments and suggestions periodically.  We hope you'll like
 Google Mail.  We do.  And, it's only going to get better.

 Thanks,

 The Google Mail Team

 (If clicking the URLs in this message does not work, copy and paste
 them into the address bar of your browser).

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Lol, I don't think the mailing list can sign up for gmail.

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Re: [PHP] php-general@lists.php.net, Tim-Hinnerk Heuer has invited you to open a Google mail account

2009-05-08 Thread Lenin
Yeah gmail is a nice thing :)

The best ever mailing system world has ever seen until now.


Re: [PHP] php-general@lists.php.net, Tim-Hinnerk Heuer has invited you to open a Google mail account

2009-05-08 Thread sean greenslade
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Lenin le...@phpxperts.net wrote:
 Yeah gmail is a nice thing :)

 The best ever mailing system world has ever seen until now.


Agreed.

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[PHP] Re: Problems with HTTPS and maybe an .htaccess???

2009-05-08 Thread Ross McKay
On Tue, 05 May 2009 13:20:56 -0500, Skip Evans wrote:

[...]
But now I have a problem implementing this on their 
development site, which is just a duplicate code base inside a 
directory public_html/_dev and a domain name dev.sitename.com, 
instead of sitename.com.

The problem is, and I believe it may be the .htaccess file, 
redirecting the https pages to the live [...]

You should be telling the browser to redirect to the new page, rather
than just pulling up a page to offer back instead of the requested URL.
You want the browser to request a new page, using HTTPS (i.e. SSL or
TLS). See here, which forces a redirect to HTTPS for any pages in the
orders folder that have been requested via HTTP:

RewriteCond %{SERVER_PORT}  !443$
RewriteRule ^orders/?.*$https://%{SERVER_NAME}/orders [R=301,L]

The bit at the end, R=301 makes Apache tell the browser to ask for
another page at the new URL.

The %{SERVER_NAME} bit tells Apache to insert the server name, whether
it be your sitename.com or dev.sitename.com
-- 
Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia
Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn
- The Wee Book of Calvin

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