Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice/ Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On 8/20/2012 12:19 AM, Jim Lucas wrote: On 8/17/2012 6:35 PM, Jim Giner wrote: On 8/17/2012 7:16 PM, Jim Lucas wrote: You could simply remove all full domain+path URL links and replace them with absolute path urls only. turn http://www.somedomain.com/path/to/my/webpage.html into /path/to/my/webpage.html This would work with either domain. Those would be relative paths, ..o? No. Quick Google search turns up this: http://www.uvsc.edu/disted/decourses/dgm/2120/IN/steinja/lessons/06/06_04.html I have three description or types of paths that I use normally. I feel the first two generally get grouped together by most persons. Full or complete path: a href=http://www.cmsws.com/index.php;Home/a Absolute Path: a href=/index.phpHome/a Relative: a href=index.phpHome/a -- Jim Lucas http://cmsws.com Anything that does not absolutely define something, is relative to the current context. In this case since your href does not mention the sitename, in my book that equates to something relative. Count me as one person who would never lump the first two ex. into one. The simple device of using the leading slash to start the href indicates its relativity to the the home folder of the site. The lack of a leading slash indicates its relativity to the current folder. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice/ Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
2012/8/20 Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.com On 8/20/2012 12:19 AM, Jim Lucas wrote: On 8/17/2012 6:35 PM, Jim Giner wrote: On 8/17/2012 7:16 PM, Jim Lucas wrote: You could simply remove all full domain+path URL links and replace them with absolute path urls only. turn http://www.somedomain.com/**path/to/my/webpage.htmlhttp://www.somedomain.com/path/to/my/webpage.html into /path/to/my/webpage.html This would work with either domain. Those would be relative paths, ..o? No. Quick Google search turns up this: http://www.uvsc.edu/disted/**decourses/dgm/2120/IN/steinja/** lessons/06/06_04.htmlhttp://www.uvsc.edu/disted/decourses/dgm/2120/IN/steinja/lessons/06/06_04.html I have three description or types of paths that I use normally. I feel the first two generally get grouped together by most persons. Full or complete path: a href=http://www.cmsws.com/**index.phphttp://www.cmsws.com/index.php Home/a Absolute Path: a href=/index.phpHome/a Relative: a href=index.phpHome/a -- Jim Lucas http://cmsws.com Anything that does not absolutely define something, is relative to the current context. In this case since your href does not mention the sitename, in my book that equates to something relative. absolute path != absolute (or better full-qualified) URL/URI. Therefore /foo/bar is an absolute path, but a relative URI. Count me as one person who would never lump the first two ex. into one. The simple device of using the leading slash to start the href indicates its relativity to the the home folder of the site. The document-root. The home of the user the webserver/interpreter is running on may be somewhere else. The lack of a leading slash indicates its relativity to the current folder. Relative to the current path. Especially with rewrites folder and path can be completely different.
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice/ Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On 8/17/2012 6:35 PM, Jim Giner wrote: On 8/17/2012 7:16 PM, Jim Lucas wrote: You could simply remove all full domain+path URL links and replace them with absolute path urls only. turn http://www.somedomain.com/path/to/my/webpage.html into /path/to/my/webpage.html This would work with either domain. Those would be relative paths, ..o? No. Quick Google search turns up this: http://www.uvsc.edu/disted/decourses/dgm/2120/IN/steinja/lessons/06/06_04.html I have three description or types of paths that I use normally. I feel the first two generally get grouped together by most persons. Full or complete path: a href=http://www.cmsws.com/index.php;Home/a Absolute Path: a href=/index.phpHome/a Relative: a href=index.phpHome/a -- Jim Lucas http://cmsws.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice/ Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Jim Lucas li...@cmsws.com wrote: On 8/17/2012 6:35 PM, Jim Giner wrote: On 8/17/2012 7:16 PM, Jim Lucas wrote: You could simply remove all full domain+path URL links and replace them with absolute path urls only. turn http://www.somedomain.com/path/to/my/webpage.html into /path/to/my/webpage.html This would work with either domain. Those would be relative paths, ..o? No. Quick Google search turns up this: http://www.uvsc.edu/disted/decourses/dgm/2120/IN/steinja/lessons/06/06_04.html I have three description or types of paths that I use normally. I feel the first two generally get grouped together by most persons. Full or complete path: a href=http://www.cmsws.com/index.php;Home/a Absolute Path: a href=/index.phpHome/a Relative: a href=index.phpHome/a -- Jim Lucas http://cmsws.com Actually, from what I've seen most people consider your first example an absolute path and your last example relative. The middle example, which you have called absolute, seems to be oft ignored in the explanations I found in my own quick Google search. Even the example you cited seems to ignore the variant that you call an absolute path. A page I found on About.com (http://webdesign.about.com/od/beginningtutorials/a/aa040502a.htm) does group the first two examples together as absolute paths, but the definition of a URI on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_resource_identifier) disagrees -- under the section titled Examples of URI references, note this example: /relative/URI/with/absolute/path/to/resource.txt The most authoritative resource I found was from the IETF (RFC 3986). Section 4.3, as I understand it, says that an absolute URI includes the scheme part (e.g. http, ftp, tel, mailto), which would imply that your middle example is NOT an absolute path. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-4.3 Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 01:35:11PM -0600, Tristan wrote: So, I need to change from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking of doing this 1) create an alias to the site somenewdomain.com to point to current server 2) run permanent 301 redirect from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking this was a clean safe way to do it so we dont have to run a global find replace. Concerns might be but, I don't know for sure? 1) SEO 2) processing / time / cost for the 301 redirect on any old somedomain.comrequests What do you guys think? I can comment on part of this based on what I was recently told by an SEO company. Let's assume you've got a bunch of SEO goodness (recognition, Google search placement, etc.) going for you on site1.com. If you a permanent redirect (301) to site2.com, all that SEO goodness will transfer straight across to the new site. You may take this with whatever grain of salt you like, considering it comes from an SEO company and I consider SEO companies almost uniformly liars and ripoff artists who generally have no earthly idea what they're talking about. In this case, what they're saying makes sense to me, and I suspect it's true. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On Aug 18, 2012 4:49 PM, Paul M Foster pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: I can comment on part of this based on what I was recently told by an SEO company. Let's assume you've got a bunch of SEO goodness (recognition, Google search placement, etc.) going for you on site1.com. If you a permanent redirect (301) to site2.com, all that SEO goodness will transfer straight across to the new site. You may take this with whatever grain of salt you like, considering it comes from an SEO company and I consider SEO companies almost uniformly liars and ripoff artists who generally have no earthly idea what they're talking about. In this case, what they're saying makes sense to me, and I suspect it's true. That doesn't sound right to me. If so, I'd presume a lot of folks would be doing that as a service. I have several PR6-8 domains myself, and could see how someone (not me) might say, since I'm really not using these domains anyway, I'll 301 to a paying customer for them to include their ranking. If for no other reason than I haven't heard of folks doing this (read: SPAM), I'd guess it's not true. Still, other folks are far more knowledgeable than Yours Truly when it comes to SEO. Just for good measure, I've CC'd one (Thiago Pojda) to see if he'd be interested in chiming in on the matter.
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 05:10:39PM -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: On Aug 18, 2012 4:49 PM, Paul M Foster [1]pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: I can comment on part of this based on what I was recently told by an SEO company. Let's assume you've got a bunch of SEO goodness (recognition, Google search placement, etc.) going for you on [2]site1.com. If you a permanent redirect (301) to [3]site2.com, all that SEO goodness will transfer straight across to the new site. You may take this with whatever grain of salt you like, considering it comes from an SEO company and I consider SEO companies almost uniformly liars and ripoff artists who generally have no earthly idea what they're talking about. In this case, what they're saying makes sense to me, and I suspect it's true. ��� That doesn't sound right to me.� If so, I'd presume a lot of folks would be doing that as a service.� I have several PR6-8 domains myself, and could see how someone (not me) might say, since I'm really not using these domains anyway, I'll 301 to a paying customer for them to include their ranking.� If for no other reason than I haven't heard of folks doing this (read: SPAM), I'd guess it's not true. ��� Still, other folks are far more knowledgeable than Yours Truly when it comes to SEO.� Just for good measure, I've CC'd one (Thiago Pojda) to see if he'd be interested in chiming in on the matter. [grin] Well, what I didn't say in my original email was why this came up with the SEO company in the first place (and part of why I think SEO companies have no idea what they're talking about). We had built a website for a customer, and then they called in this SEO company to advise them. The SEO company insisted on a 301 permanent redirect at the top of every page of the site. From what domain to what domain, you may ask. From www.yourdomain.com to yourdomain.com. I kid you not. The theory being that the SEO goodness from www.yourdomain.com would transfer to yourdomain.com, if someone came in from a www.yourdomain.com link somewhere. Seriously. Never mind that for years, DNS zone files have been routinely set up so that www.example.com is a DNS alias for example.com, and so it was in this case as well. Besides which, does anyone imagine that the spiders and evaluation engines for bright companies like Google and Yahoo might actually think that www.example.com and example.com have completely different content? I can also say that, on some of these pages we built, there were forms which emailed the surfer's responses to someone at our customer's company. And the extraneous 301s at the top of these form pages apparently interfered with the functionality of these pages. When the 301s were removed, we ceased to have complaints from our customer regarding the forms. Like I said, take it with whatever grain of salt you like. And if someone more knowledgeable than the rest of us says otherwise, take their word for it instead. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
So, I need to change from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking of doing this 1) create an alias to the site somenewdomain.com to point to current server 2) run permanent 301 redirect from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking this was a clean safe way to do it so we dont have to run a global find replace. Concerns might be but, I don't know for sure? 1) SEO 2) processing / time / cost for the 301 redirect on any old somedomain.comrequests What do you guys think? Thanks, T
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
Depending on how long you have why not just do an alias? No redirect required. On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Tristan sunnrun...@gmail.com wrote: So, I need to change from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking of doing this 1) create an alias to the site somenewdomain.com to point to current server 2) run permanent 301 redirect from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking this was a clean safe way to do it so we dont have to run a global find replace. Concerns might be but, I don't know for sure? 1) SEO 2) processing / time / cost for the 301 redirect on any old somedomain.comrequests What do you guys think? Thanks, T
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
If you need to change the domain completely, choose 301. - Crawler will recognize it and will update their indexes quite soon. Especially you avoid duplicate content-punishments, because you say yourself, that the content originally comes from another domain, that isn't anymore (Like It's not a duplicate, it's _the_ content, but under a different address). - The delay is negliable. Also as soon as every index were updated no new visitor should enter your site via the old domain. Browser should (don't know wether they do, or not) recognize 301 too and redirect any further request to the url on their own (think of it as they cache the redirect permanently). If this change is only temporary I would recommend using 307 to avoid duplicate contents. I would even say, that a 307-redirect from somenewdomain.com to somedomain.com is more appropiate, but that depends. Regards, Sebastian Am 17.08.2012 21:35, schrieb Tristan: So, I need to change from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking of doing this 1) create an alias to the site somenewdomain.com to point to current server 2) run permanent 301 redirect from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking this was a clean safe way to do it so we dont have to run a global find replace. Concerns might be but, I don't know for sure? 1) SEO 2) processing / time / cost for the 301 redirect on any old somedomain.comrequests What do you guys think? Thanks, T -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
Jonathan, Yeah that was my intention but, I think search engines will hit you for duped content if you're running two domains same content. So, the idea was to redirect 301 style and have an alias. -T On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Jonathan Sundquist jsundqu...@gmail.comwrote: Depending on how long you have why not just do an alias? No redirect required. On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Tristan sunnrun...@gmail.com wrote: So, I need to change from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking of doing this 1) create an alias to the site somenewdomain.com to point to current server 2) run permanent 301 redirect from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking this was a clean safe way to do it so we dont have to run a global find replace. Concerns might be but, I don't know for sure? 1) SEO 2) processing / time / cost for the 301 redirect on any old somedomain.comrequests What do you guys think? Thanks, T
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Tristan sunnrun...@gmail.com wrote:
So, I need to change from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com
I was thinking of doing this
1) create an alias to the site somenewdomain.com to point to current server
2) run permanent 301 redirect from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com
I was thinking this was a clean safe way to do it so we dont have to run a
global find replace.
Concerns might be but, I don't know for sure?
1) SEO
2) processing / time / cost for the 301 redirect on any old
somedomain.comrequests
What do you guys think?
Well, first, you get a 0.2-point deduction for not asking anything
about PHP, but since it's Friday and the folks here are about the most
creative and intelligent bunch of minds on any mailing list (call be
biased, I don't care), you still qualify for a medal.
Congratulations.
If it were me, and this is an Apache box, I would
* Add a ServerAlias somenewdomain.com directive to the
somedomain.com VirtualHost entry
* Add a mod_rewrite rule to your .htaccess file in the web
root of somedomain.com:
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} somedomain\.com$
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://somenewdomain.com/$1 [QSA,L,R=301]
Remember to modify your rewrite stuff to be compatible with the
present SSL status of the request, and do whatever you need to do with
regard to any subdomains or whatever.
--
/Daniel P. Brown
Network Infrastructure Manager
http://www.php.net/
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
Sebastian, I'll check into 307 I haven't used that before but, this really is a permanent redirect. They are going to a shorter domain. About the SEO part of it though. Would it be good to find replace all internal links from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com or will it follow the 301 with no punishment or cause any other weirdnesses you can think of. Thanks, T On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Sebastian Krebs krebs@gmail.comwrote: If you need to change the domain completely, choose 301. - Crawler will recognize it and will update their indexes quite soon. Especially you avoid duplicate content-punishments, because you say yourself, that the content originally comes from another domain, that isn't anymore (Like It's not a duplicate, it's _the_ content, but under a different address). - The delay is negliable. Also as soon as every index were updated no new visitor should enter your site via the old domain. Browser should (don't know wether they do, or not) recognize 301 too and redirect any further request to the url on their own (think of it as they cache the redirect permanently). If this change is only temporary I would recommend using 307 to avoid duplicate contents. I would even say, that a 307-redirect from somenewdomain.com to somedomain.com is more appropiate, but that depends. Regards, Sebastian Am 17.08.2012 21:35, schrieb Tristan: So, I need to change from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking of doing this 1) create an alias to the site somenewdomain.com to point to current server 2) run permanent 301 redirect from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com I was thinking this was a clean safe way to do it so we dont have to run a global find replace. Concerns might be but, I don't know for sure? 1) SEO 2) processing / time / cost for the 301 redirect on any old somedomain.comrequests What do you guys think? Thanks, T -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
Daniel,
Why thank you for your mercy. That is precisely why I belong to this list.
Happy Friday!
My colleague is saying
but I still think we should change all the references to
someolddomain.comhttp://farmcreditnetwork.com/ to
some newdomain, especially in the code base, database etc...
I don't want to introduce more problems if a find/replace doesn't go right.
Is there any valid reason for doing the quoted above or any argument
against doing that.
Thanks, T
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote:
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Tristan sunnrun...@gmail.com wrote:
So, I need to change from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com
I was thinking of doing this
1) create an alias to the site somenewdomain.com to point to current
server
2) run permanent 301 redirect from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com
I was thinking this was a clean safe way to do it so we dont have to run
a
global find replace.
Concerns might be but, I don't know for sure?
1) SEO
2) processing / time / cost for the 301 redirect on any old
somedomain.comrequests
What do you guys think?
Well, first, you get a 0.2-point deduction for not asking anything
about PHP, but since it's Friday and the folks here are about the most
creative and intelligent bunch of minds on any mailing list (call be
biased, I don't care), you still qualify for a medal.
Congratulations.
If it were me, and this is an Apache box, I would
* Add a ServerAlias somenewdomain.com directive to the
somedomain.com VirtualHost entry
* Add a mod_rewrite rule to your .htaccess file in the web
root of somedomain.com:
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} somedomain\.com$
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://somenewdomain.com/$1 [QSA,L,R=301]
Remember to modify your rewrite stuff to be compatible with the
present SSL status of the request, and do whatever you need to do with
regard to any subdomains or whatever.
--
/Daniel P. Brown
Network Infrastructure Manager
http://www.php.net/
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Tristan sunnrun...@gmail.com wrote: My colleague is saying but I still think we should change all the references to someolddomain.com to some newdomain, especially in the code base, database etc... I don't want to introduce more problems if a find/replace doesn't go right. Is there any valid reason for doing the quoted above or any argument against doing that. If you have the luxury of time and resources, your colleague is absolutely correct. In fact, now might be the ideal time to convert all hard-coded values to a variable or definition that need only be changed once should this recur. Either way, the find/replace should definitely be done. Should anything happen to the original domain - expiration, transfer, or even a temporary DNS routing issue - you're screwed. You can't 301 from something that isn't there in the first place (though, for good measure, you can 301 *to* anything you'd like). From Linux, it's simple to write a 'for' loop to find, cat, and sed everything in the *.php, *.inc, *.html, etc. files, and database options are even easier. That said, of course, make sure you've got everything backed up just before you change the stuff, should things go awry --- and without a current backup, you can bet your ass they will. Murphy's Law. -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice / Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On 08/17/2012 01:09 PM, Tristan wrote: Sebastian, I'll check into 307 I haven't used that before but, this really is a permanent redirect. They are going to a shorter domain. About the SEO part of it though. Would it be good to find replace all internal links from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com or will it follow the 301 with no punishment or cause any other weirdnesses you can think of. Thanks, T On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Sebastian Krebskrebs@gmail.comwrote: If you need to change the domain completely, choose 301. - Crawler will recognize it and will update their indexes quite soon. Especially you avoid duplicate content-punishments, because you say yourself, that the content originally comes from another domain, that isn't anymore (Like It's not a duplicate, it's _the_ content, but under a different address). - The delay is negliable. Also as soon as every index were updated no new visitor should enter your site via the old domain. Browser should (don't know wether they do, or not) recognize 301 too and redirect any further request to the url on their own (think of it as they cache the redirect permanently). If this change is only temporary I would recommend using 307 to avoid duplicate contents. I would even say, that a 307-redirect from somenewdomain.com to somedomain.com is more appropiate, but that depends. Regards, Sebastian You could simply remove all full domain+path URL links and replace them with absolute path urls only. turn http://www.somedomain.com/path/to/my/webpage.html into /path/to/my/webpage.html This would work with either domain. -- Jim Lucas http://www.cmsws.com/ http://www.cmsws.com/examples/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Cost of redirect and site domain switch? Good Practice/ Bad Practice / Terrible Practice
On 8/17/2012 7:16 PM, Jim Lucas wrote: On 08/17/2012 01:09 PM, Tristan wrote: Sebastian, I'll check into 307 I haven't used that before but, this really is a permanent redirect. They are going to a shorter domain. About the SEO part of it though. Would it be good to find replace all internal links from somedomain.com to somenewdomain.com or will it follow the 301 with no punishment or cause any other weirdnesses you can think of. Thanks, T On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Sebastian Krebskrebs@gmail.comwrote: If you need to change the domain completely, choose 301. - Crawler will recognize it and will update their indexes quite soon. Especially you avoid duplicate content-punishments, because you say yourself, that the content originally comes from another domain, that isn't anymore (Like It's not a duplicate, it's _the_ content, but under a different address). - The delay is negliable. Also as soon as every index were updated no new visitor should enter your site via the old domain. Browser should (don't know wether they do, or not) recognize 301 too and redirect any further request to the url on their own (think of it as they cache the redirect permanently). If this change is only temporary I would recommend using 307 to avoid duplicate contents. I would even say, that a 307-redirect from somenewdomain.com to somedomain.com is more appropiate, but that depends. Regards, Sebastian You could simply remove all full domain+path URL links and replace them with absolute path urls only. turn http://www.somedomain.com/path/to/my/webpage.html into /path/to/my/webpage.html This would work with either domain. Those would be relative paths, ..o? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
