[PHP] OT Re: [PHP] can I compile php source
I promised myself that I wouldn't get in the middle of any flame wars but I just had to say something about my experience. The day I stopped looking for free handouts and became self-sufficient in my ability to find the answers myself was the day someone told me to RTFM a few years ago. It was a friend of mine and it was a little hurtful. But he was right! The answer was right in the man page. Then I felt stupid for asking. Since then my skills at troubleshooting went through the roof. You can literally train yourself to be a walking encyclopedia not by knowing the answer but by knowing how to find the answer without anyones help. Sometimes it takes a mean push to get someone on the right track. You might not like it but you can't deny the results it can bring. -- --Matthew Sims --http://killermookie.org some people will never get it. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OT Re: [PHP] can I compile php source
While Yes may be a technically accurate answer to a question like Can I ... or Can anyone ..., a couple of points must be acknowledged: 1) Such an answer doesn't help the original poster. Period. And the purpose of a resource like this is to help, right? Even a RTFM or search Google at least gives the user __something__ to work with (and the lesson there being that if they read the manual or search Google, they'll quickly find answers). If your argument for answering Yes is that you're teaching the user to ask questions the smart way, then why not answer their intended question AND refer them to the smart questions page? Do you honestly think people are learning __anything__ when you reply with a Yes? Moreover... 2) It's commonplace in human discourse to attempt to address the *intent* of a person's question rather than the literal question itself. If you were helping a friend re-shingle a roof and they said Can you hand me that hammer?, hopefully you would actually hand them the hammer, not say Yes. They are many colloquialisms in languages--like when someone says What's up?--and it's just obstinate not to recognize them as such and respond accordingly. Finally, if you don't agree that Yes isn't helpful and that it's an inappropriate answer anyway, how about this: such emails are a waste of resources. It's a waste of the time (.1 nanoseconds or whatever) it took you to write. It's a waste of bandwidth (at a few bits a pop). It's a waste of everyone's time in reading and deleting such emails (another second). And it tends to start a sequence of even longer, off topic threads such as this one. So, seriously, if you don't feel like helping or you don't believe that a message should be posted here because it's off topic or you don't believe that a question was phrased properly, wouldn't it be better for everyone if you just didn't respond? It'd certainly be easier. Oy vay! Larry -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OT Re: [PHP] can I compile php source
Matthew Sims wrote: I promised myself that I wouldn't get in the middle of any flame wars but I just had to say something about my experience. The day I stopped looking for free handouts and became self-sufficient in my ability to find the answers myself was the day someone told me to RTFM a few years ago. It was a friend of mine and it was a little hurtful. But he was right! The answer was right in the man page. Then I felt stupid for asking. Since then my skills at troubleshooting went through the roof. You can literally train yourself to be a walking encyclopedia not by knowing the answer but by knowing how to find the answer without anyones help. Sometimes it takes a mean push to get someone on the right track. You might not like it but you can't deny the results it can bring. Your skills grow even more when you start answering questions you understand, or parroting the answers to questions you didn't understand, but recognize. :-) Plus you sort of get famous for it, sometimes. :-) :-) :-) On the downside, you can get flamed for being mean and unhelpful. I had a guy tell me how cruel I was for helping him with the ORACLE_SID/ORACLE_HOME problem, but not solving his other Oracle database problems. I'd never even *used* Oracle, but knew the answer after seeing it on this list, every week for about 2 years running. :-) Oh well. Win some, lose some. If somebody thinks I'm being too nice or answering many FAQs, give me grief about it OFF-LIST please! -- Like Music? http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OT Re: [PHP] can I compile php source
Larry E. Ullman wrote: While Yes may be a technically accurate answer to a question like Can I ... or Can anyone ..., a couple of points must be acknowledged: 1) Such an answer doesn't help the original poster. Period. And the purpose of a resource like this is to help, right? Even a RTFM or search Google at least gives the user __something__ to work with (and the lesson there being that if they read the manual or search Google, they'll quickly find answers). If your argument for answering Yes is that you're teaching the user to ask questions the smart way, then why not answer their intended question AND refer them to the smart questions page? Do you honestly think people are learning __anything__ when you reply with a Yes? Moreover... I guess you didn't read the 'smart questions page'. It explains in great detail why the user was directed there. It explains what the user should do _before_ posting to a mailing list. It gives the user more than the little STFW 'something'. 2) It's commonplace in human discourse to attempt to address the *intent* of a person's question rather than the literal question itself. If you were helping a friend re-shingle a roof and they said Can you hand me that hammer?, hopefully you would actually hand them the hammer, not say Yes. They are many colloquialisms in languages--like when someone says What's up?--and it's just obstinate not to recognize them as such and respond accordingly. Finally, if you don't agree that Yes isn't helpful and that it's an inappropriate answer anyway, how about this: such emails are a waste of resources. It's a waste of the time (.1 nanoseconds or whatever) it took you to write. It's a waste of bandwidth (at a few bits a pop). It's a waste of everyone's time in reading and deleting such emails (another second). And it tends to start a sequence of even longer, off topic threads such as this one. Kind of like it's a waste of time to psycho analyze members of php mailing list...not that it's off topic or anything. So, seriously, if you don't feel like helping or you don't believe that a message should be posted here because it's off topic or you don't believe that a question was phrased properly, wouldn't it be better for everyone if you just didn't respond? It'd certainly be easier. Kind of like it would be better if others didn't fan the flames with posts on how the bad people shouldn't be mean. Oy vay! Indeed. Sorry Jay, guess I've lost Christmas points. ;) -- John C. Nichel ÜberGeek KegWorks.com 716.856.9675 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OT Re: [PHP] can I compile php source
So, seriously, if you don't feel like helping or you don't believe that a message should be posted here because it's off topic or you don't believe that a question was phrased properly, wouldn't it be better for everyone if you just didn't respond? It'd certainly be easier. I can agree with you up until here. If someone is consistently posting off-topic then it would be in the group's interest to keep them from posting those things, e.g. $$$ MAKE MONEY FAST!!! $$$ or Cheep \/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re: [PHP] OT Re: [PHP] can I compile php source
From: Larry E. Ullman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you honestly think people are learning __anything__ when you reply with a Yes? Yes. ---John Holmes... UCCASS - PHP Survey System http://www.bigredspark.com/survey.html -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OT Re: [PHP] can I compile php source
On Wednesday 22 December 2004 04:51, Jason Barnett wrote: So, seriously, if you don't feel like helping or you don't believe that a message should be posted here because it's off topic or you don't believe that a question was phrased properly, wouldn't it be better for everyone if you just didn't respond? It'd certainly be easier. I can agree with you up until here. Ditto ... If someone is consistently posting off-topic then it would be in the group's interest to keep them from posting those things, e.g. $$$ MAKE MONEY FAST!!! $$$ or Cheep \/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... but not for this reason. You're describing spam. One should never respond to spam. The originator of the spam is not going to be reading your response. The real reason is that, for example, some person posted an OT question, if everyone followed the above advice and just ignored that post, the most likely result would be that the same OT question would get reposted, again, and again, until someone blinks and tells that person that their post was OT and was therefore ignored. Now I know I would rather be told if I was doing something wrong (and hopefully learn from that) rather than to be sent to Coventry. -- Jason Wong - Gremlins Associates - www.gremlins.biz Open Source Software Systems Integrators * Web Design Hosting * Internet Intranet Applications Development * -- Search the list archives before you post http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-general -- /* Worlds are conquered, galaxies destroyed -- but a woman is always a woman. -- Kirk, The Conscience of the King, stardate 2818.9 */ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OT Re: [PHP] can I compile php source
John Holmes wrote: From: Larry E. Ullman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you honestly think people are learning __anything__ when you reply with a Yes? Yes. You used to be so nice and polite. ;) -- By-Tor.com ...it's all about the Rush http://www.by-tor.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
