Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-19 Thread Michael A. Peters

Jan G.B. wrote:

2010/3/18 tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com:

Calling it ranting or religious unjustly demeans the discussion and is
inflammatory.
In all of this, I've simply said it's your choice.


What I said was:
*persons ranting about short open tags* *are just like some religious people
*


I don't care what people do in their code.
I do not like released code with short tags, it has caused me problems 
when trying to run php webapps that use short tags, I have to go through 
the code and change them.


So what people do with their private code, I could care less about.
But if releasing php code for public consumption, I guess I'm a preacher 
asking people to get religion, because short tags do not belong in 
projects that are released to the public. Just like addslashes and magic 
quotes and most html entities should not be used in php code released 
for public consumption.


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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-19 Thread Peter Lind
On 19 March 2010 10:17, Michael A. Peters mpet...@mac.com wrote:

 I don't care what people do in their code.
 I do not like released code with short tags, it has caused me problems when
 trying to run php webapps that use short tags, I have to go through the code
 and change them.

 So what people do with their private code, I could care less about.
 But if releasing php code for public consumption, I guess I'm a preacher
 asking people to get religion, because short tags do not belong in projects
 that are released to the public. Just like addslashes and magic quotes and
 most html entities should not be used in php code released for public
 consumption.


What he said. Now, could we get over this discussion? It's not exactly
going anywhere.

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread Pete Ford

On 17/03/10 18:59, Tommy Pham wrote:

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Rene Veermanrene7...@gmail.com  wrote:

hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with?= through
the str_replace(), than it is to get all the?= writers to comply
with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-)

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, teddtedd.sperl...@gmail.com  wrote:

At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote:


That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short
tag, only with those who say I shouldn't.


Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause
problems.

My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is
a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path
too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most
traveled.

Cheers,

ted
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http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php

There are four different pairs of opening and closing tags which can
be used in PHP. Two of those,?php ?  andscript language=php
/script, are always available. The other two are short tags and ASP
style tags, and can be turned on and off from the php.ini
configuration file. As such, while some people find short tags and ASP
style tags convenient, they are less portable, and generally not
recommended. 


But the implication there is that they are *only* non-portable *because* they 
can be switched off - there's no other strong reason. Before anyone jumps in 
with XML / XHTML arguments again, those issues are fairly rare and very easily 
worked around. My projects tend to use XHTML doctype because it makes IE7/8 
behave more predictably without a ?xml ? block, and I always use short tags 
for ?= because the alternative is so ugly! In the rare cases where I generate 
XML from a PHP script, there are workarounds for the ? problem.

I do tend to use ?php for blocks of code - so I guess I'm in the middle camp 
here.
I also write code to be hosted on dedicated systems that I have full control 
over, so php.ini settings are always in my control (so far...)


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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread Jan G.B.
2010/3/18 Pete Ford p...@justcroft.com:
 On 17/03/10 18:59, Tommy Pham wrote:

 On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Rene Veermanrene7...@gmail.com  wrote:

 hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with?= through
 the str_replace(), than it is to get all the?= writers to comply
 with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-)

 On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, teddtedd.sperl...@gmail.com  wrote:

 At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote:

 That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short
 tag, only with those who say I shouldn't.

 Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause
 problems.

 My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue
 is
 a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that
 path
 too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most
 traveled.

 Cheers,

 ted
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 http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php

 There are four different pairs of opening and closing tags which can
 be used in PHP. Two of those,?php ?  andscript language=php
 /script, are always available. The other two are short tags and ASP
 style tags, and can be turned on and off from the php.ini
 configuration file. As such, while some people find short tags and ASP
 style tags convenient, they are less portable, and generally not
 recommended. 

 But the implication there is that they are *only* non-portable *because*
 they can be switched off - there's no other strong reason. Before anyone
 jumps in with XML / XHTML arguments again, those issues are fairly rare and
 very easily worked around. My projects tend to use XHTML doctype because it
 makes IE7/8 behave more predictably without a ?xml ? block, and I always
 use short tags for ?= because the alternative is so ugly! In the rare cases
 where I generate XML from a PHP script, there are workarounds for the ?
 problem.
 I do tend to use ?php for blocks of code - so I guess I'm in the middle
 camp here.
 I also write code to be hosted on dedicated systems that I have full control
 over, so php.ini settings are always in my control (so far...)

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I agree.
And I believe the persons ranting about short open tags are just like
some religious people. It's almost like a war between
Linux/Windows/Mac, IE/FF or ASP/PHP.
Also, people love to recommend things that others recommended before.
It mustn't make a big sense.

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread tedd

At 9:34 AM + 3/18/10, Pete Ford wrote:


I do tend to use ?php for blocks of code - so I guess I'm in the 
middle camp here.



Whoa, that's even worse -- make a choice and stick with it -- IMO.

I'm all for consistency and have often found myself redoing dozens of 
scripts because I changed something -- not because the change worked 
and the other didn't, but rather to maintain consistency throughout 
the project.


Granted, different reasons promote different programming styles. 
While what I do is to solve the problem at hand for the client, it 
also has to pass through my vision of code elegance. I program for 
myself first and solve the client's problems second. I also realize 
that I have the privilege of doing so because my needs are few. I 
probably wouldn't do well in a production oriented environment.


Cheers,

tedd

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread tedd

At 4:11 PM +0100 3/18/10, Jan G.B. wrote:

I agree.
And I believe the persons ranting about short open tags are just like
some religious people. It's almost like a war between
Linux/Windows/Mac, IE/FF or ASP/PHP.
Also, people love to recommend things that others recommended before.
It mustn't make a big sense.


Calling it ranting or religious unjustly demeans the discussion 
and is inflammatory.


In all of this, I've simply said it's your choice. While I believe 
and have stated my reasons, which are more than faith, you are free 
to do whatever you want. I don't consider any of this discussion (on 
either side of the argument) as religious' or ranting -- it's 
simply a discussion.


Cheers,

tedd

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread Jan G.B.
2010/3/18 tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com:
 Calling it ranting or religious unjustly demeans the discussion and is
 inflammatory.
 In all of this, I've simply said it's your choice.

What I said was:
*persons ranting about short open tags* *are just like some religious people
*

I did not address you.

On the other hand you're telling people here that their approach is worse
and yours is great. IMHO this isn't a discussion but bashing without any
reasoning.
You simply say that XML is confused by a short open tag, but actually PHP is
not embedded in XML.

I quote you:
 that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration to your
client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best possible code.
 I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing
tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR
the programmer still doesn't get it.

You make it very clear that you believe in your superior coding style.


Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread Ashley Sheridan
On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 17:32 +0100, Jan G.B. wrote:

 2010/3/18 tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com:
  Calling it ranting or religious unjustly demeans the discussion and is
  inflammatory.
  In all of this, I've simply said it's your choice.
 
 What I said was:
 *persons ranting about short open tags* *are just like some religious people
 *
 
 I did not address you.
 
 On the other hand you're telling people here that their approach is worse
 and yours is great. IMHO this isn't a discussion but bashing without any
 reasoning.
 You simply say that XML is confused by a short open tag, but actually PHP is
 not embedded in XML.
 
 I quote you:
  that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration to your
 client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best possible code.
  I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing
 tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR
 the programmer still doesn't get it.
 
 You make it very clear that you believe in your superior coding style.


Technically, PHP isn't embedded in any language; it's the other way
around.

XML and PHP are used together more often than you might realise.
Consider Ajax and RSS, which are becoming more and more popular. Also,
there are sites out there that are almost entirely XML-based; just have
a look at the World of Warcraft (yes I play it!) website.

For me, I originally learnt PHP using the ?php tags. I only found out
about short tags when I first ran into the problem with them on shared
hosting that had them turned off. To me, it didn't make much sense in
using something that wasn't portable. For the same reason, I try to
avoid using obscure PHP modules when I know a system will end up on a
closed hosting platform like this.

I hear the arguments that short tags make code easier to read and write,
but from experience, a good syntax highlighter does the trick for the
former, and I don't feel that typing a few extra characters is really
delaying me by much.

I have seen someone argue about screen readers having problems by
reading out the ?php each time, and I don't know how that would be
dealt with in reality. Are there PHP-aware screen readers about, or at
least screen readers that might be told to ignore particular patterns of
content?

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk




Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread Jan G.B.
2010/3/18 Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk

 Technically, PHP isn't embedded in any language; it's the other way around.

 XML and PHP are used together more often than you might realise. Consider
 Ajax and RSS, which are becoming more and more popular. Also, there are
 sites out there that are almost entirely XML-based; just have a look at the
 World of Warcraft (yes I play it!) website.

 Sure - XML is often used and served.
But in general, a web server only parses PHP-Files (ie. .+\.php\d?) unless
you configure your server to parse any file or .xml files. So the XML ? is
not a problem at all for the interpreter.



 For me, I originally learnt PHP using the ?php tags. I only found out
 about short tags when I first ran into the problem with them on shared
 hosting that had them turned off. To me, it didn't make much sense in using
 something that wasn't portable. For the same reason, I try to avoid using
 obscure PHP modules when I know a system will end up on a closed hosting
 platform like this.


My opinion to this is that I seperate markup from code. I use a template
system in my .tpl files and these will never get parsed. Inline PHP is not
my choice.
But when I'm about to update a project that is written with inline php, I
appreciate the short tags for their ease of use. I also enjoy typing less.
:-)

Regards


Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread Ashley Sheridan
On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 17:57 +0100, Jan G.B. wrote:

 Sure - XML is often used and served. But in general, a web server only
 parses PHP-Files (ie. .+\.php\d?) unless you configure your server to
 parse any file or .xml files. So the XML ? is not a problem at all
 for the interpreter.


I wasn't meaning that xml files would be parsed as PHP, but that PHP
would be used to output XML. I'd rather have short tags turned off than
remember each time that I have to keep breaking up the  and ?php before
I output it in-case the parser gets confused.

Templating is great, but it's not for all projects.

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk




Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-18 Thread Ashley Sheridan
On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 18:09 +0100, Jan G.B. wrote:

 2010/3/18 Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk
 
   I'd rather have short tags turned off than remember each time that I have
  to keep breaking up the  and ?php before I output it in-case the parser
  gets confused.
 
 
 You don't need to break anything up. It's perfectly valid and without
 problems:
 
 ?php echo '?xml version ?'; ?


What about this:

?xml version=1.0
?php

That would break with short tags turned on. I often use this sort of
code in my Ajax server stuff. I don't want to have to use PHP to echo
out what would work on a normal setup.

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk




Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-17 Thread tedd

At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote:
That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the 
short tag, only with those who say I shouldn't.


Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can 
cause problems.


My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the 
issue is a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've 
traveled that path too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier 
to take the path most traveled.


Cheers,

ted
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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-17 Thread Rene Veerman
hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with ?= through
the str_replace(), than it is to get all the ?= writers to comply
with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-)

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote:
 At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote:

 That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short
 tag, only with those who say I shouldn't.

 Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause
 problems.

 My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is
 a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path
 too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most
 traveled.

 Cheers,

 ted
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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-17 Thread Tommy Pham
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote:
 hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with ?= through
 the str_replace(), than it is to get all the ?= writers to comply
 with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-)

 On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote:
 At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote:

 That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short
 tag, only with those who say I shouldn't.

 Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause
 problems.

 My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is
 a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path
 too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most
 traveled.

 Cheers,

 ted
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http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php

There are four different pairs of opening and closing tags which can
be used in PHP. Two of those, ?php ? and script language=php
/script, are always available. The other two are short tags and ASP
style tags, and can be turned on and off from the php.ini
configuration file. As such, while some people find short tags and ASP
style tags convenient, they are less portable, and generally not
recommended. 

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-17 Thread tedd

At 11:59 AM -0700 3/17/10, Tommy Pham wrote:

http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php

There are four different pairs of opening and closing tags which can
be used in PHP. Two of those, ?php ? and script language=php
/script, are always available. The other two are short tags and ASP
style tags, and can be turned on and off from the php.ini
configuration file. As such, while some people find short tags and ASP
style tags convenient, they are less portable, and generally not
recommended. 


+1

Cheers,

tedd
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RE: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-16 Thread Ford, Mike
 -Original Message-
 From: Bob McConnell [mailto:r...@cbord.com]
 Sent: 15 March 2010 18:13
 
 From: Jochem Maas
 
  Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:
  First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ...
 ?)
 because
  the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.
 
  that's a documentation error.
 
 No it's not. The short tags conflict with both XML and XHTML and
 therefore are being phased out.

Jochem is right, Bob and Jorge are wrong.

Proof: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=126832992915664w=2 

Cheers!

Mike
 -- 
Mike Ford,
Electronic Information Developer, Libraries and Learning Innovation,  
Leeds Metropolitan University, C507, Civic Quarter Campus, 
Woodhouse Lane, LEEDS,  LS1 3HE,  United Kingdom 
Email: m.f...@leedsmet.ac.uk 
Tel: +44 113 812 4730





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RE: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-16 Thread Ashley Sheridan
On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 11:16 +, Ford, Mike wrote:

  -Original Message-
  From: Bob McConnell [mailto:r...@cbord.com]
  Sent: 15 March 2010 18:13
  
  From: Jochem Maas
  
   Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:
   First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ...
  ?)
  because
   the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.
  
   that's a documentation error.
  
  No it's not. The short tags conflict with both XML and XHTML and
  therefore are being phased out.
 
 Jochem is right, Bob and Jorge are wrong.
 
 Proof: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=126832992915664w=2 
 
 Cheers!
 
 Mike
  -- 
 Mike Ford,
 Electronic Information Developer, Libraries and Learning Innovation,  
 Leeds Metropolitan University, C507, Civic Quarter Campus, 
 Woodhouse Lane, LEEDS,  LS1 3HE,  United Kingdom 
 Email: m.f...@leedsmet.ac.uk 
 Tel: +44 113 812 4730
 
 
 
 
 
 To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to 
 http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm
 


That's not really proof of anything, it's just an archived email from
this list...

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk




RE: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-16 Thread Ford, Mike
 -Original Message-
 From: Ashley Sheridan [mailto:a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk]
 Sent: 16 March 2010 11:16
 
 On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 11:16 +, Ford, Mike wrote:
 
  
  Proof: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=126832992915664w=2
  
 
 That's not really proof of anything, it's just an archived email
 from this list...

Well, firstly it's an archived email from the *internals* (i.e. PHP developers) 
list, not this one. And secondly it's from someone whom I trust to know what 
he's talking about. If I looked, I'm sure I could dig up several similarly 
definitive (but less recent) pronouncements from PHP names, including Rasmus 
himself.

In fact: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=123969574312781w=2 

Cheers!

Mike

 -- 
Mike Ford,
Electronic Information Developer, Libraries and Learning Innovation,  
Leeds Metropolitan University, C507, Civic Quarter Campus, 
Woodhouse Lane, LEEDS,  LS1 3HE,  United Kingdom 
Email: m.f...@leedsmet.ac.uk 
Tel: +44 113 812 4730





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RE: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-16 Thread Bob McConnell
From: Ford, Mike
 From: Ashley Sheridan
 On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 11:16 +, Ford, Mike wrote:
 
  
  Proof: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=126832992915664w=2
  
 
 That's not really proof of anything, it's just an archived email
 from this list...
 
 Well, firstly it's an archived email from the *internals* (i.e.
 PHP developers) list, not this one. And secondly it's from
 someone whom I trust to know what he's talking about. If I
 looked, I'm sure I could dig up several similarly definitive
 (but less recent) pronouncements from PHP names, including
 Rasmus himself.
 
 In fact: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=123969574312781w=2 

Well, that's their prerogative, but I believe they are wrong. Short tags
cause more problems than they will ever solve, and should be removed
from the language ASAP. I would classify that as a design flaw.

In the meantime, since we are upgrading our pages to XHTML, we are
replacing the short tags wherever they occur.

Bob McConnell

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-16 Thread tedd

At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote:

Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:

 First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ...  ?) because
 the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.


that's a documentation error.



 You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?=
 (stop being a lazy ass! :P):


it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know 
what it means),


Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they 
must play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not 
static.


While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to 
others and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) 
don't accept the short term tag, then why use it?


Using Standards like this help promote better communication between 
all languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either 
communicate better or don't -- that's your choice -- but your 
decision is also a demonstration to your client/employer/peers as to 
your desire to produce the best possible code.


I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing 
tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old 
code OR the programmer still doesn't get it.


Cheers,

tedd

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-16 Thread Rene Veerman
maybe adding a ?php= as equivalent to ?= and ?php echo ,
then deprecating ?= would be useful.

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:18 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote:
 At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote:

 Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:

  First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ...  ?)
 because
  the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.

 that's a documentation error.


  You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut
 ?=
  (stop being a lazy ass! :P):

 it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know what
 it means),

 Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they must
 play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not static.

 While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to others
 and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) don't accept
 the short term tag, then why use it?

 Using Standards like this help promote better communication between all
 languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either communicate better
 or don't -- that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration
 to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best
 possible code.

 I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing tables
 and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the
 programmer still doesn't get it.

 Cheers,

 tedd

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-16 Thread Ashley Sheridan
On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 23:42 +0100, Rene Veerman wrote:

 maybe adding a ?php= as equivalent to ?= and ?php echo ,
 then deprecating ?= would be useful.
 
 On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:18 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote:
  At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote:
 
  Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:
 
   First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ...  ?)
  because
   the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.
 
  that's a documentation error.
 
 
   You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut
  ?=
   (stop being a lazy ass! :P):
 
  it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know what
  it means),
 
  Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they must
  play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not static.
 
  While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to others
  and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) don't accept
  the short term tag, then why use it?
 
  Using Standards like this help promote better communication between all
  languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either communicate better
  or don't -- that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration
  to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best
  possible code.
 
  I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing tables
  and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the
  programmer still doesn't get it.
 
  Cheers,
 
  tedd
 
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  To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
 
 
 


I think that would just add to an already confusing situation.

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk




Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-16 Thread Adam Richardson
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Ashley Sheridan
a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote:

 On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 23:42 +0100, Rene Veerman wrote:

  maybe adding a ?php= as equivalent to ?= and ?php echo ,
  then deprecating ?= would be useful.
 
  On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:18 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote:
   At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote:
  
   Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:
  
First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ...  ?)
   because
the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.
  
   that's a documentation error.
  
  
You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the
 shortcut
   ?=
(stop being a lazy ass! :P):
  
   it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know
 what
   it means),
  
   Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they
 must
   play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not static.
  
   While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to
 others
   and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) don't
 accept
   the short term tag, then why use it?
  
   Using Standards like this help promote better communication between
 all
   languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either communicate
 better
   or don't -- that's your choice -- but your decision is also a
 demonstration
   to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best
   possible code.
  
   I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing
 tables
   and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the
   programmer still doesn't get it.
  
   Cheers,
  
   tedd
  
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   ---
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   PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
   To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
  
  
 


 I think that would just add to an already confusing situation.

 Thanks,
 Ash
 http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk



I'll confess that I work on ASP.Net just as much as PHP (If you must throw
tomatoes, make sure their really ripe so they don't hurt as much ;)  I
appreciate the different tags offered in ASP.Net, as they succinctly provide
some convenient capabilities (one version provides similar capabilites to
PHP's ?=$var_to_echo?.)

I believe that although they're removing the ASP version of tags (e.g., %
%) from PHP 6, they're keeping the short tag option debated in this thread,
and I hope they do.

To say that using short tags is bad form seems quite strong.  Additionally,
saying that XML doesn't accept the syntax is also extreme.  It's not that
XML doesn't accept the short tag.  Actually, PHP's parser is confused by the
XML declaration.  When you work with generating an XML document with PHP, it
only takes one line of code to accommodate PHP's parser.  However, the vast
majority of the time I'm generating XHTML 1 (or now more and more XHTML 5),
and neither of these require the XML declaration for validation purposes.

Additionally, wanting to write less code to perform the same action isn't
necessarily an act of laziness.  Am I lazy for loving the that I can use
simple message passing capabilities in Scala or transactional memory in
Clojure to perform tasks in parallel as opposed to the olden days of dealing
with threads in Java?  When I can type less, maintain clarity, and perform
the same action, I consider it an act of beauty.

When you compare the code samples below, I find that I prefer the short tag
version or the last example when I'm reworking the XHTML, as there's less
code to sift through.  There seems to be a trend in other templating
languages to shorten the amount of typing (e.g., Google Go uses
http://json-template.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/Introducing-JSON-Template.html),
and I hope PHP will continue to keep pace with the trend, too.  That said,
I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short tag, only with
those who say I shouldn't.

Adam

section
article
h2a href=?php echo $url; ??php echo $title; ?/a/h2
p
?php echo $description; ?
span?php echo $date; ?/span
/p
/article
article
h2a href=?= $url ??= $title ?/a/h2
p
?= $description ?
span?= $date ?/span
/p
/article
!--
This last example is just to show the scheme I use in my own web
framework, which is similar to JSON template
--
article
h2a href={url}{title}/a/h2
p
{description}
span{date}/span
/p
/article
/section

-- 
Nephtali:  PHP web framework that functions beautifully
http://nephtaliproject.com


Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-15 Thread Jochem Maas
Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:
 First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ...  ?) because
 the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.

that's a documentation error.

 
 You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?=
 (stop being a lazy ass! :P):

it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know what it 
means),
but ... if you require portable code and your liable to be running on shared
hosting where you don't control the ini settings you might consider not using 
it.

it is often feasable to turn them on explicitly in your 'init' routine so that
your template/output code can use short tags:

?php ini_set('short_open_tag', true); ?

I can't recall that this is ever locked down on a server so that you can't
change it, although the default if quite often set to FALSE.

 tr
 td align=left?php echo $_SESSION['scripture_text']; ?/td
 /tr
 
 
 
 input type=text name=reservation_date value=?php echo
 $_GET['rdate'];  ? readonly=
 
 remember that between tags, we have normal php code.
 
 Rewards

how much?

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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code

2010-03-13 Thread Jorge Gomes
First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ...  ?) because
the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.

You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?=
(stop being a lazy ass! :P):

tr
td align=left?php echo $_SESSION['scripture_text']; ?/td
/tr



input type=text name=reservation_date value=?php echo
$_GET['rdate'];  ? readonly=

remember that between tags, we have normal php code.

Rewards
___
Jorge Gomes


2010/3/13 David Robley robl...@aapt.net.au

 Martine Osias wrote:

  An HTML/PHP code migrated to a different hosting platform seems to behave
  differently. The PHP statements within HTML fields or within tables  does
  not execute
 
  PHP within table:
 
  tr
   td
   align=left?=laquo;.$_SESSION['scripture_text'].raquo;?/td
   /tr
 
  This PHP code doesn't print in the HTML page.
 
  PHP within form field:
 
  input type=text name=reservation_date value=?=$_GET['rdate'];?
  readonly=
 
  This PHP code shows on the page when it shouldn't. The same variable is
 an
  input and an output in this form:
 
  
 snip code
 
  Are there times when the ? statements in HTML code don't execute?

 Yes - when short_open_tag is disabled in the config. See
 http://www.php.net/manual/en/ini.core.php#ini.short-open-tag for more
 info.

 I'd suggest you move away from using short tags, if for no other reason
 than
 portability.


 Cheers
 --
 David Robley

 A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking.
 Today is Boomtime, the 72nd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3176.


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