Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
Jason Pruim wrote: On Feb 12, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Nathan Rixham wrote: Jason Pruim wrote: Hi Everyone, I know this isn't 100% on topic... But when is any post to this list 100% on topic? :) I've been doing some googling trying to find info on how to plan for what a website needs. Stuff like Does it need a forum, live support, database driven etc. etc. Does anyone have a form that they use to give to the client asking them to outline some ideas that they have about the website? What I'm looking for is something that I could give to a potential client and ask them to describe some basic aspects of their target audience, a rough idea of what they want it to look like, or at least other sites that they like. Stuff like that.. Even if you don't have such a form, I'm sure you all have standard questions you ask each client before giving a quote :) Anyone want to share with the class? If there is interest, I may even put it together on a webpage to help future people :) -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] I always take the simple approach, ask them what they want to achieve/expect from the website. Then verbally work backwards with them to figure out what the website needs in order to reach the clients goal. (personally) In all honesty I'd stay away from any kind of form, as they'll just pick nice to have boxes and end up with something overpriced, not suited to there needs and you'll get complaints in 6 months time. hope that makes sense! ps: the only thing I've found useful that way after many years, is to make the base site structure with very short text descriptions on each page + links to the next page | and for god sake, leave the home page will very very last! Nathan Hey Nathan, Thanks for the reply. I'm just getting more and more into freelance web work and have my first client asking for a quote. Before now, it's all been internal applications, and the companies website that I have worked on. Nothing for other people. I was actually thinking that the form would be for me to make sure I covered the basics... I'm alot better if I have something written down and I can ask the client Do you need to support multiple languages? Which to me then, would lead me into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language :) [1] As I was typing this I realized that maybe a database isn't the best idea for that, but it's the only way I can think of. Anyone who wants to give me another option is more then welcome to do so! -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Email and Googletalk/Jabber IM ID. As to the multilingual; many approaches use defines for site words, buttons, links etc... but since you most likely keep dynamic content in the database then it makes sense to store the translations there too. Then you can build a management interface for the customer to add content and the associated translations. -Shawn -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
On Feb 12, 2008, at 4:24 PM, Daniel Brown wrote: On Feb 12, 2008 2:53 PM, Nathan Rixham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Browsers generally send the the HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE header in a request. $_SERVER[HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE] = en-gb,en;q=0.5 thus with mine, preference is en-gb, failing that anything en; failing that whatever you've got. ACCEPT_CHARSET is worth a check often aswell; finally POST requests can also have a CONTENT_LANGUAGE specified which describes the lang of the content. Yes, but as has been said in the past, you can't rely on browser headers, because they can easily be forged. ;-P I can see it now That'll mess with them. Now they'll think I'm Mexican! Which goes back to giving them an easy way of changing the display language :P If someone intentionally messes with the language headers they deserve to get a language they may or may not know! :P -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
Jason, If you don't mind I may give you an email off the list in a moment to brain storm up a quick list of questions to ask clients and indeed client gotchas. For the time being as this seems to be going down the line of how to handle multilingual sites here's my two pennies. XML, store everything in XML, that way I can store extra info specific to the files in there aswell. A quick XPath query [lang=en-gb] and I've got the content I need. To get around the search thing I generally store a plain text version of the content in a single table, with the key being a geometry column to keep things working ultra fast. But.. I'm still experimenting - sure xml is the way forwards.. Nathan Aleksandar Vojnovic wrote: Could you explain this a little better - ...into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language? Aleksandar Quoting Jason Pruim [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Feb 12, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Nathan Rixham wrote: Jason Pruim wrote: Hi Everyone, I know this isn't 100% on topic... But when is any post to this list 100% on topic? :) I've been doing some googling trying to find info on how to plan for what a website needs. Stuff like Does it need a forum, live support, database driven etc. etc. Does anyone have a form that they use to give to the client asking them to outline some ideas that they have about the website? What I'm looking for is something that I could give to a potential client and ask them to describe some basic aspects of their target audience, a rough idea of what they want it to look like, or at least other sites that they like. Stuff like that.. Even if you don't have such a form, I'm sure you all have standard questions you ask each client before giving a quote :) Anyone want to share with the class? If there is interest, I may even put it together on a webpage to help future people :) -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] I always take the simple approach, ask them what they want to achieve/expect from the website. Then verbally work backwards with them to figure out what the website needs in order to reach the clients goal. (personally) In all honesty I'd stay away from any kind of form, as they'll just pick nice to have boxes and end up with something overpriced, not suited to there needs and you'll get complaints in 6 months time. hope that makes sense! ps: the only thing I've found useful that way after many years, is to make the base site structure with very short text descriptions on each page + links to the next page | and for god sake, leave the home page will very very last! Nathan Hey Nathan, Thanks for the reply. I'm just getting more and more into freelance web work and have my first client asking for a quote. Before now, it's all been internal applications, and the companies website that I have worked on. Nothing for other people. I was actually thinking that the form would be for me to make sure I covered the basics... I'm alot better if I have something written down and I can ask the client Do you need to support multiple languages? Which to me then, would lead me into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language :) [1] As I was typing this I realized that maybe a database isn't the best idea for that, but it's the only way I can think of. Anyone who wants to give me another option is more then welcome to do so! -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Email and Googletalk/Jabber IM ID. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
On Feb 12, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Aleksandar Vojnovic wrote: Could you explain this a little better - ...into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language? Aleksandar I'll try my best to :) I have heard from people (Haven't done it my self) that it is possible and reliable, to use the browsers language setting which gets transmitted in one of the headers (Not sure which one off hand) to initially select the language for the site from your database. IE: If you speak english, and have english selected as your browser language preference, it will send that to the server, when your script sees it, it's a fairly good assumption that that would be the preferred language to display in, so the server pushes up the english version of the site. Obviously, you need to have the actual translated files stored on your server to choose from. And, you should always give them away of overriding the guessed option, just in case they really don't want to use what it appears like they do :) Does that explain it better? -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
Jason Pruim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 12, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Nathan Rixham wrote: Jason Pruim wrote: Hi Everyone, I know this isn't 100% on topic... But when is any post to this list 100% on topic? :) I've been doing some googling trying to find info on how to plan for what a website needs. Stuff like Does it need a forum, live support, database driven etc. etc. Does anyone have a form that they use to give to the client asking them to outline some ideas that they have about the website? What I'm looking for is something that I could give to a potential client and ask them to describe some basic aspects of their target audience, a rough idea of what they want it to look like, or at least other sites that they like. Stuff like that.. Even if you don't have such a form, I'm sure you all have standard questions you ask each client before giving a quote :) Anyone want to share with the class? If there is interest, I may even put it together on a webpage to help future people :) -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] I always take the simple approach, ask them what they want to achieve/expect from the website. Then verbally work backwards with them to figure out what the website needs in order to reach the clients goal. (personally) In all honesty I'd stay away from any kind of form, as they'll just pick nice to have boxes and end up with something overpriced, not suited to there needs and you'll get complaints in 6 months time. hope that makes sense! ps: the only thing I've found useful that way after many years, is to make the base site structure with very short text descriptions on each page + links to the next page | and for god sake, leave the home page will very very last! Nathan Hey Nathan, Thanks for the reply. I'm just getting more and more into freelance web work and have my first client asking for a quote. Before now, it's all been internal applications, and the companies website that I have worked on. Nothing for other people. I was actually thinking that the form would be for me to make sure I covered the basics... I'm alot better if I have something written down and I can ask the client Do you need to support multiple languages? Which to me then, would lead me into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language :) [1] As I was typing this I realized that maybe a database isn't the best idea for that, but it's the only way I can think of. Anyone who wants to give me another option is more then welcome to do so! -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Email and Googletalk/Jabber IM ID. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I generally ask people what they are looking to do with the site. Are they just wanting to have an image out there, do they want a contact form, do they want to sell something, do they really care to translate it (blowfish), Then I go into how much $$$ do they want to spend, do they want to update it themselves, how they have worked on it in the past, etc. Generally that alone gives me a good base point. But I'm scatter-brained enough that I just write things down as we talk and that leads me to more questions to ask them. :) Wolf -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
Could you explain this a little better - ...into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language? Aleksandar Quoting Jason Pruim [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Feb 12, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Nathan Rixham wrote: Jason Pruim wrote: Hi Everyone, I know this isn't 100% on topic... But when is any post to this list 100% on topic? :) I've been doing some googling trying to find info on how to plan for what a website needs. Stuff like Does it need a forum, live support, database driven etc. etc. Does anyone have a form that they use to give to the client asking them to outline some ideas that they have about the website? What I'm looking for is something that I could give to a potential client and ask them to describe some basic aspects of their target audience, a rough idea of what they want it to look like, or at least other sites that they like. Stuff like that.. Even if you don't have such a form, I'm sure you all have standard questions you ask each client before giving a quote :) Anyone want to share with the class? If there is interest, I may even put it together on a webpage to help future people :) -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] I always take the simple approach, ask them what they want to achieve/expect from the website. Then verbally work backwards with them to figure out what the website needs in order to reach the clients goal. (personally) In all honesty I'd stay away from any kind of form, as they'll just pick nice to have boxes and end up with something overpriced, not suited to there needs and you'll get complaints in 6 months time. hope that makes sense! ps: the only thing I've found useful that way after many years, is to make the base site structure with very short text descriptions on each page + links to the next page | and for god sake, leave the home page will very very last! Nathan Hey Nathan, Thanks for the reply. I'm just getting more and more into freelance web work and have my first client asking for a quote. Before now, it's all been internal applications, and the companies website that I have worked on. Nothing for other people. I was actually thinking that the form would be for me to make sure I covered the basics... I'm alot better if I have something written down and I can ask the client Do you need to support multiple languages? Which to me then, would lead me into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language :) [1] As I was typing this I realized that maybe a database isn't the best idea for that, but it's the only way I can think of. Anyone who wants to give me another option is more then welcome to do so! -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Email and Googletalk/Jabber IM ID. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
On Feb 12, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Nathan Rixham wrote: Jason Pruim wrote: Hi Everyone, I know this isn't 100% on topic... But when is any post to this list 100% on topic? :) I've been doing some googling trying to find info on how to plan for what a website needs. Stuff like Does it need a forum, live support, database driven etc. etc. Does anyone have a form that they use to give to the client asking them to outline some ideas that they have about the website? What I'm looking for is something that I could give to a potential client and ask them to describe some basic aspects of their target audience, a rough idea of what they want it to look like, or at least other sites that they like. Stuff like that.. Even if you don't have such a form, I'm sure you all have standard questions you ask each client before giving a quote :) Anyone want to share with the class? If there is interest, I may even put it together on a webpage to help future people :) -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] I always take the simple approach, ask them what they want to achieve/expect from the website. Then verbally work backwards with them to figure out what the website needs in order to reach the clients goal. (personally) In all honesty I'd stay away from any kind of form, as they'll just pick nice to have boxes and end up with something overpriced, not suited to there needs and you'll get complaints in 6 months time. hope that makes sense! ps: the only thing I've found useful that way after many years, is to make the base site structure with very short text descriptions on each page + links to the next page | and for god sake, leave the home page will very very last! Nathan Hey Nathan, Thanks for the reply. I'm just getting more and more into freelance web work and have my first client asking for a quote. Before now, it's all been internal applications, and the companies website that I have worked on. Nothing for other people. I was actually thinking that the form would be for me to make sure I covered the basics... I'm alot better if I have something written down and I can ask the client Do you need to support multiple languages? Which to me then, would lead me into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language :) [1] As I was typing this I realized that maybe a database isn't the best idea for that, but it's the only way I can think of. Anyone who wants to give me another option is more then welcome to do so! -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Email and Googletalk/Jabber IM ID. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
On Feb 12, 2008 2:53 PM, Nathan Rixham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Browsers generally send the the HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE header in a request.
$_SERVER[HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE] = en-gb,en;q=0.5
thus with mine, preference is en-gb, failing that anything en; failing
that whatever you've got.
ACCEPT_CHARSET is worth a check often aswell; finally POST requests can
also have a CONTENT_LANGUAGE specified which describes the lang of the
content.
Yes, but as has been said in the past, you can't rely on browser
headers, because they can easily be forged. ;-P
I can see it now
That'll mess with them. Now they'll think I'm Mexican!
--
/Dan
Daniel P. Brown
Senior Unix Geek
? while(1) { $me = $mind--; sleep(86400); } ?
--
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Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
Jason Pruim wrote: On Feb 12, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Aleksandar Vojnovic wrote: Could you explain this a little better - ...into using a database[1] for storing the pages and using browser sniffing to find out what language preference they currently had selected to display in that language? Aleksandar I'll try my best to :) I have heard from people (Haven't done it my self) that it is possible and reliable, to use the browsers language setting which gets transmitted in one of the headers (Not sure which one off hand) to initially select the language for the site from your database. IE: If you speak english, and have english selected as your browser language preference, it will send that to the server, when your script sees it, it's a fairly good assumption that that would be the preferred language to display in, so the server pushes up the english version of the site. Obviously, you need to have the actual translated files stored on your server to choose from. And, you should always give them away of overriding the guessed option, just in case they really don't want to use what it appears like they do :) Does that explain it better? -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Browsers generally send the the HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE header in a request. $_SERVER[HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE] = en-gb,en;q=0.5 thus with mine, preference is en-gb, failing that anything en; failing that whatever you've got. ACCEPT_CHARSET is worth a check often aswell; finally POST requests can also have a CONTENT_LANGUAGE specified which describes the lang of the content. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Question about development
On Tue, February 12, 2008 3:32 pm, Jason Pruim wrote: On Feb 12, 2008, at 4:24 PM, Daniel Brown wrote: On Feb 12, 2008 2:53 PM, Nathan Rixham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Browsers generally send the the HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE header in a request. $_SERVER[HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE] = en-gb,en;q=0.5 thus with mine, preference is en-gb, failing that anything en; failing that whatever you've got. ACCEPT_CHARSET is worth a check often aswell; finally POST requests can also have a CONTENT_LANGUAGE specified which describes the lang of the content. Yes, but as has been said in the past, you can't rely on browser headers, because they can easily be forged. ;-P I can see it now That'll mess with them. Now they'll think I'm Mexican! Which goes back to giving them an easy way of changing the display language :P If someone intentionally messes with the language headers they deserve to get a language they may or may not know! :P I was at an internet cafe in Paris once. Despite having a French keyboard layout and a browser sending fr as my preferred language, my French language skills were no better than when I walked in... :-) -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
