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2020-04-20 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Re: What parts of picolisp did you have the most trouble understanding?

2018-07-31 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

Op di 31 jul. 2018 om 17:34 schreef Alexander Burger :

>
> But 'cut' is *not* a destructive function. It does not modify the list in
> any
> way. Only the variable which points to the list is modified.
>

OK. That isn't totally obvious, but of course you are right as shown per
this example:

: (setq X '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8))
> -> (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)
> : (setq S X)
> -> (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)   ; Now S points to same memory location as X
> : (cut 3 'S)
> -> (1 2 3)
> : S
> -> (4 5 6 7 8) ; Now S points to the 4th element of that same memory
> location
> : X
> -> (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) ; X still points to the same memory location


Ergo: Alex is totally right :)


> In general, all destructive functions are marked as such in the reference.
>

Good to get some feedback and find out how it *really*  works :)

Thx very much!
   Arie

Re: Survey results

2018-07-21 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

because I was busy I'm a bit late to react :)
Thanks for the heads up, the concise results and also the very useful
answers to open questions!
To avoid further noise, I'll contact those that (I think) volunteered to
(try to) help with the Wiki in private.

Apart from me I have 4 volunteers, of which:
- one is Alexander, who (I guess) likes to leave the layout to the
community members and will put things 'in production'
- one other, who said he has very little time at hand
- one other who reacted, but I'm not totally sure if his answer explicitly
stated he wants to help

ANYWAY, if somebody feels that (s)he'd like to help, please mail me!

Thx!
   Arie


Op di 17 jul. 2018 om 14:09 schreef Christophe Gragnic <
christophegrag...@gmail.com>:

> Thanks Arie for the good work, that was very informative.
> You should be proud of the "go on with the result of the survey" answer.
>
> chri
>
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 9:25 pm Alexander Burger  wrote:
>
>> Hi Arie,
>>
>> > please find all survey results attached. Since a lot of comments were
>> given
>> > it maybe needs a bit of time to sink in before moving forward.
>>
>> Wow! Impressive!
>>
>> —Alex
>>
>> --
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>>
>

Re: Testing test.l

2018-07-03 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Indeed a shortcoming of WSL.

WSL works kind of OK after the april 2018 update. But calls to specific
native Linux system routines often yield strange results.

Also the output of standard Linux commands in WSL is often plain useless or
very limited.

Maybe this will improve in the near future :)

It made me make the move to a Linux under Virtualbox, which works like a
charm!

Best,
   Arie

Op ma 2 jul. 2018 om 23:11 schreef Joh-Tob Schäg :

> I recently got a windows pc and installed the linux simulation layer. I
> choose Ubuntu 18.04.
> During executing test.l i noticed the following things
>
> in @test/src/main.l are the following problems:
>
>>
>> (unless (member *OS '("SunOS" "OpenBSD" "Cygwin" "AIX" "HP-UX" "IRIX64"))
>>(sigio (setq "SigSock" (port T 0 "SigPort"))
>>   (setq "SigVal" (udp "SigSock")) )
>>(udp "localhost" "SigPort" '(a b c))
>>(wait 200)
>>(test '(a b c) "SigVal")
>>(close "SigSock") )
>>
> raises an error i can not unatangle
>
> 
>  *
> OS is "Linux"
>
> error is
>
>> ("SigVal")
>
> [test/src/main.l:20] (a b c) -- 'test' failed
>>
>
>
> @test/src/sym.l
>
>>
>> 
>> (when symbols
>>(one Foo)
>>(test 'pico (nsp 'symbols))
>>(test 'myLib (nsp 'Foo))
>>(test '(myLib pico) (symbols 'pico)) )
>>
> error:
>
>  !? (nsp 'symbols)
> nsp -- Undefined
>
>> 
>> (when symbols
>>(test 1 myLib~Foo)
>>(test NIL (nsp 'myLib~Foo)) )
>>
> error:  1 -- 'test' failed
>
>
>> ### zap ###
>> (test "abc" (str? (zap 'abc)))
>>
> The test is wrong, windows is not to blame. I think
>
>
> --- End Windows for Linux Ubuntu18.04 (using latest tests and version 18 2
> 17 of pil)
>

Re: Reminder on Wiki survey

2018-06-30 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Thanks!

Op za 30 jun. 2018 om 13:59 schreef Timur Ismagilov :

> I voted. Just letting you know.
>
> — bouncepaw
>
>
>  Исходное сообщение --------
> От: Arie van Wingerden 
> Дата: 30.06.2018 16:20 (GMT+05:00)
> Кому: picolisp@software-lab.de
> Тема: Reminder on Wiki survey
>
> Hi,
>
> we got 9 responses so far, but we guess there are a lot more participants
> / lurkers in this mailing list.
>
> Please fill out the survey here if you haven't done that yet:
> https://esurv.org/?s=MOIEMH_753ad7ff
>
> Thanks to those who already did participate :)
>
> Best,
>Arie
>

Reminder on Wiki survey

2018-06-30 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

we got 9 responses so far, but we guess there are a lot more participants /
lurkers in this mailing list.

Please fill out the survey here if you haven't done that yet:
https://esurv.org/?s=MOIEMH_753ad7ff

Thanks to those who already did participate :)

Best,
   Arie

Re: Wiki progress update ...

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Nehal,

Op ma 25 jun. 2018 om 13:29 schreef Nehal :

> While observing new changes made in picolisp wiki css, I observed on
> https://picolisp.com/wiki/?PCE:
>
> 1. *Numbering* error of headings.  3 comes after 4 again!
>

Corrected.

2. "On Rosettacode you can find a wealth of examples on a huge *scala*
of common programming problems." Perhaps you wanted to write 'scale'.

Right. I changed it to range, which might be even a bit better.

You may like to correct above minor changes. :)

Yes, of course! Thank you.
Best,
   Arie

Re: Wiki progress update ...

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Thx. Manuel!

Op ma 25 jun. 2018 om 14:09 schreef Manuel Cano :

> Hi,
>
> I've corrected the missing quote: ...known "Perl Cookbook.
>
> :)
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Manu
>
> 2018-06-01 17:19 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden :
>
>> The first section of PLEAC (Strings) is now at about 76% ready
>>
>> Some examples are rewritten a little, in order to make it easier for
>> people to just copy and paste the code to see what happens.
>>
>> I took great effort to verify each and every example.
>>
>> Also I added a reference to all used functions per example, so the user
>> can easily switch back and forth.
>>
>> If anybody would be so kind to have a look and check if everything is OK
>> overall...?
>>
>> Any input is welcome. But, beware that the Wiki markup is really simple
>> (in the spirit of PicoLisp itself) so, not everything is possible (I
>> think?).
>>
>> /Arie
>>
>
>

Re: Wiki css

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Jean-Christophe,

Op ma 25 jun. 2018 om 12:04 schreef Jean-Christophe Helary <
brandel...@gmail.com>:

I agree. But it is always difficult to discuss a proposal before seeing
> some kind of implementation.
>

Right. Thtat's a thing I really need to change.!


> I think it is possible to further improve Arie's work by laying out a few
> design principles, like for example not add decorations that do not have a
> clear function (i.e. usually italics and bold are kept to show a
> contrasting emphasis within a text). That's usually the main issue with
> heavily decorated documents (I'm not saying that this page is heavily
> decorated :).
>

In fact I disliked the HUGE headers and wanted them a bit smaller .. :)

T
hx.

   Arie

Re: Wiki css

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

No problem :)

Op ma 25 jun. 2018 om 12:04 schreef Manuel Cano :

> Hi Arie,
>
> Sorry. I've mistyped you name!
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Manu
>
> 2018-06-25 11:41 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden :
>
> > Hi Manuel,
> >
> > I like as it is now. Ari has made a good job, don't throw it away.
> >
> > Pffft. I really thought it was all bad news. Thx.
> >
> > If it was hard for someone before, they could have done what Ari has made

Re: Wiki css

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Johann,

I would also keep it
>  ...
>

OK. You don't like the updates I guess.


> 
> and somebody finds something annoying (like italic
> headlines) they should just send an "upgraded" css to the mailing list and
> have some people try it out.
>

It indeed would be nice *if* people did such thing. But I guess it would
result in the same kind of personal taste issues, even preventing to put
any changes life at all. At any time there would be people not liking
specific things.

Thx.
   Arie

Re: Wiki css

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Manuel,

I like as it is now. Ari has made a good job, don't throw it away.

Pffft. I really thought it was all bad news. Thx.

If it was hard for someone before, they could have done what Ari has made.

That's right. But it is *really* difficult to do things that everybody
likes ...

Thx!
   Arie

Re: Wiki css

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

might be a good Idea.

But the mailing list and IRC don't seem to be really appropriate to do
voting.

Does somebody know if there is a good free online possibility out there to
do voting on several things in one go?
If so, I am surely willing to take the effort and follow up democratically!
Will try to find this myself as well.

Thanks!
   Arie







Op ma 25 jun. 2018 om 11:00 schreef Alexander Burger :

> Hi all,
>
> > after reading a few reactions and also my struggle to get things right
> (in
> > *my* opinion), I realize that it really is impossible to please
> everybody.
> >
> > Given the fact that also I seem to be the only person not liking the old
> > CSS and that the new CSS is a "regression" it is much better to restore
> the
> > old CSS.
> >
> > My only purpose is to make the Wiki *more* attractive and not to make it
> > *worse*.
> >
> > @AlexB
> > To not further disturb the community I'd like Alex to restore the
> previous
> > CSS (which I also attach here).
>
> Really a tough decision ... How about some democratic process?
>
> What if anybody concerned about the matter votes here (or in IRC, or in
> the Wiki
> itself?) within the next week, and we do the final decision based on that?
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Wiki css

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

after reading a few reactions and also my struggle to get things right (in
*my* opinion), I realize that it really is impossible to please everybody.

Given the fact that also I seem to be the only person not liking the old
CSS and that the new CSS is a "regression" it is much better to restore the
old CSS.

My only purpose is to make the Wiki *more* attractive and not to make it
*worse*.

@AlexB
To not further disturb the community I'd like Alex to restore the previous
CSS (which I also attach here).

BTW. no hard feelings to commenters. I hear you :)

Best wishes to all,
   Arie
/* 26apr18edg
 * 07aug13abu
 * 30jan12jk
 * (c) Software Lab. Alexander Burger
 */


/*/
/* Utils */
.left   {float: left}
.right  {float: right}
.clr{clear: both}
.norm   {text-align: left}
.align  {text-align: right}
.center {text-align: center}
.black  {color: black}
.red{color: red}
.green  {color: green}
.blue   {color: blue}
.bold   {font-weight: bold}
.mono   {font-family: monospace}


/***/
/* Simple responsive container */
.container {
   position: relative;
   width: 86%;
   display: block;
   margin: 0 auto;
   box-sizing: border-box;
}

@media screen and (min-width: 900px) {
   .container {
  max-width: 768px;
   }
} 


//
/* Defaults */
fieldset {
   padding: 0.3em 0.4em 0.7em 0.8em;  /* ie */
}

input, textarea, select {
   font-size: smaller;
   background-color: #eee;
}

body {
   margin: 0;
   font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif;
}


/**/
/* Headers/typography */
h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
   font-family: 'Exo';
   color: #222554;
   font-weight: 800;
   letter-spacing: -1px;
   margin-bottom: 2rem;
}


h5, h6 {
   color: #bbbedd;
   font-weight: 500;
}

/* adapted from skeleton.css */
h1 { font-size: 3.4rem; line-height: 1.2; }
h2 { font-size: 3.0rem; line-height: 1.25; }
h3 { font-size: 2.6rem; line-height: 1.3; }
h4 { font-size: 2.2rem; line-height: 1.35; }
h5 { font-size: 1.8rem; line-height: 1.5; }
h6 { font-size: 1.4rem; line-height: 1.6; margin-top: 0; }


/**/
/* Wiki document body */
#main {
   font-size: 16px;
   font-weight: 300;
   color: #333;
}

p {
   margin-top: 0; }

/* List styles */
#main > ul li {
   list-style-type: square;
}

#main li {
   margin-bottom: 8px;
}

#main img {
   max-width: 100%;
   height: auto;
}

/* Links */
a {
   color: #6067af;
   font-weight: 400;
   text-decoration: none;
}

a:hover,
a:focus {
   color: #6dc066;
   text-decoration: underline;
} 

/* Larger fonts for larger screens */
@media screen and (min-width: 900px) {
   #main { font-size: 18px; }
   h1 { font-size: 3.6rem; }
   h2 { font-size: 3.2rem; }
   h3 { font-size: 2.8rem; }
   h4 { font-size: 2.4rem; }
   h5 { font-size: 2.0rem; }
   h6 { font-size: 1.6rem; }
}


//
/* Menu */
#menu {
   background: #090910;
   width: 100%;
   margin-bottom: 64px;

   display: flex;
   display: -webkit-flex;
  
   flex-wrap: wrap;
   -webkit-flex-wrap: wrap;

   align-items: center;
   -webkit-align-items: center;

   justify-content: space-around;
   -webkit-justify-content: space-around;
}

/* Logo (homepage link) */
#menu a img {
   max-width: 100%;
   height: auto;
   padding: 12px;
}

/* Menu links */
#menu a {
   color: #8c8faf;
   text-decoration: none;
   text-transform: uppercase;
}

#menu a:hover,
#menu a:focus {
   color: #6dc066;
   border: none;
}

/* Remove phantom margin/padding */
#menu ul {
   margin: initial;
   padding: initial;
}

#menu ul li {
   list-style: none;
   margin: 12px;
   padding: none;
}

#menuLogin a {
   margin: 12px;
}

/* display "Downloads Documentation Community" inline
 * on larger screens */
@media screen and (min-width: 1000px) {
   #menu ul {
  display: inline-flex;
   }
}


//
/* Wiki text search */
#searchGrp {
   margin: 8px;
}

#searchGrp form {
   margin: 0;
}

#searchGrp input, 
#searchGrp .submit {
   border-radius: 1px;
   padding: 4px;
   margin: 4px;
}

#searchGrp input {
   background-color: white;
   border: 2px solid white;
}

#searchGrp .submit {
   background-color: #090910;
   border: 2px solid #8c8faf;
   color: #8c8faf;
   text-transform: uppercase;
}

#searchGrp .submit:hover {
   border-color: #6dc066;
   color: #6dc066;
}

#searchGrp .submit:active {
   color: #090910;
   background-color: #6dc066;
}

/* Search Results */
#searchGrp strong {
   color: #6dc066;  /* PL green */
}

#searchGrp strong, 
#searchGrp a {
   margin-left: 22px;
   text-transform: none;
}

/* Make search pretty on large screens */
@media screen and (min-width: 1400px) {
   #searchGrp {
  max-height: 66px;
  max-width: 300px;
   }
   /* darker links against white bg */
   #searchGrp a { 
  color: #6067af;
   }
}


#expires {
   position: absolute;
   top: 8px;
   right: 44px;
   color: #f05658;
   font-size: small;
}

/* Code highlighting */
.code {
   color: black;
   font-size: smaller;
   font-family: 'Share

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Nehal,

I see.Well, my biggest wish is to add more useful content than changing the
layout.

For me personally, the layout wasn't so nice. Guessing that this would be
the case for other people, I started to try to help.

Maybe we should wait for a while for all reactions.

Ultimate choice could be to restore the "old" CSS.

Thanks for commenting.

Best,
   Arie

Op ma 25 jun. 2018 om 07:20 schreef Nehal :

> I agree with Alexander. Base font would be better if bigger as before. I
> don't have much issue with look and feel of italicized content but base
> text be bigger (also with bigger base text italics may have to redefined)

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

2018-06-25 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alexander,


I haven't been following the recent website changes, but right now it
> seems the picolisp.com website is much worse than it used to be. A
> regression.
>

Well, that is a blow to take in ...


>   - text is too small. Please use browser relative sizes in "em" and "%"
> instead of "px".
>

OK. Good.


>   - don't put code samples in "bold". This is very hard to read.
>

Maybe for some people, but for people with worse vision that might be
completely different.


>  - don't use italics for headers and section headers.
>

That really is a question of "taste" I think! Isn't it?


>   - code samples background colour fights with text. bg should be much
> lighter.
>

Weird. It is the same background color as ever ...

   - don't use black #000 for text, but something a bit lighter like #222

> or #333.
>

Again, I know for a fact that visually impaired people *hate* vague
letters.
What is so bad?

 - don't limit the page to use 60% of the browser window, it's a waste
> of real-estate (too much whitespace on left/right). That technique
> should be reserved for blogs/articles.
>

Well, that choice was made long ago by Alexander Burger himself. Nothing
has changed.


> I'm not a designer, but I think the above is common sense.
>

I'm not a designer as well. For me the changes seem an improvement

Re: Wiki updated fonts etc.

2018-06-24 Thread Arie van Wingerden

OK. Thx!
I'll check on mark-up later then!
Best,
  Arie

Op zo 24 jun. 2018 om 13:31 schreef Jean-Christophe Helary <
brandel...@gmail.com>:

> Ok, I won't touch the css but I've removed the ":" at the beginning of 2
> lines of code and I added the macOS text.
>
> JC
>
> On Jun 24, 2018, at 18:32, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>
> Hi Jean-Christophe,
>
> thanks for the feedback!
>
> Would you be so kind to update these things yourself?
>
> It is quite impossible to forsee every wish. I just tried :)
>
> If you remove bold from code, would you please have a look at the headers
> h1..h6.
>
> Before the headers were awkwardly big. I tried to change that a bit.
>
> Also I made them italic for even numbered headers. When showing all of
> them in a page, it still is a bit awkward I do like the italic ones. Maybe
> they should be italic alltogether?
>
> Please be aware that they have different specs for bigger screens ...
>
> Please have a look!
>
> I am looking forward to concentrate on PicoLisp (examples) itself :)
>
> Many thx!
>Arie
>
> Op zo 24 jun. 2018 03:54 schreef Jean-Christophe Helary <
> brandel...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Nice job. :)
>>
>> I have just a few comments:
>> 1) I liked the tongue-in-cheek tone of the top page with : Picolisp can
>> do... Numbers !!! etc. The serious version of the current page makes
>> picolisp look like any other lisp...
>> 2) I don't think the bold font for code is a good idea but I don't
>> remember if it was like this before or not
>> 3) The examples display some differences. Some start with : some not,
>> etc. I can fix that if that's OK.
>>
>> Also, there should be a reference to macOS in the Install section,
>> something like:
>>
>> 4{Install on Linux}
>> You came here to play with another programming language, right?
>> If you're using a Debian-based Linux (like
>> Ubuntu or Mint), simply install it with:
>> :{
>>$ sudo apt-get install picolisp
>> }
>> and check out the ^{https://software-lab.de/doc/tut.html tutorial}.
>>
>> Otherwise, grab the latest version -
>> ^{https://software-lab.de/picoLisp.tgz [picoLisp.tgz]} - unpack it,
>> follow the
>> instructions from the ^{https://software-lab.de/INSTALL INSTALL} file,
>> and /{then} check out the ^{https://software-lab.de/doc/tut.html
>> tutorial}.
>> 4{Install on Windows Sybsystem for Linux (WSL)}
>> See here: ={WSL Install PicoLisp on Windows 10}
>> 4{Install on macOS}
>> It is not possible to install picolisp on macOS, or even to build it
>> without significant modifications to the code. The easiest way to access it
>> on your machine is to install it on a lightweight Linux system and to ssh
>> to it.
>>
>> JC
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2018, at 1:46, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> today the CSS for the Wiki has been updated.
>>
>> It is really difficult to find appropriate fonts, font-sizes and -colors.
>>
>> 1. menu now has bright white letters, which is better for people having
>> difficulty with reading
>>
>> 2. headers are a bit smaller, but maybe they need a bit of adjustment
>> still
>>
>> I already updated the:
>>- Wiki home
>>- Wiki documentation
>>- Wiki collection of examples
>>- all underlying PLEAC example pages
>> to optimally use the new layout.
>>
>> I hope this will work for most people. If not, feel free to contact me or
>> make changes yourself :)
>>
>> What is not yet done is what Karl-Heinz suggested. I think that is more a
>> PicoLisp code thing that generates HTML. @Karl-Heinz: could you look into
>> that?
>>
>> I'll try to update other pages to better match the changed possibilities
>> as well.
>>
>> BTW I'll try and use the mailing list only for this kind of announcements
>> to avoid clutter. Since I am a dinosaur I was not aware that much :)
>>
>> Best,
>>Arie
>>
>>
>> Jean-Christophe Helary
>> ---
>> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>>
>>
>>
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>
>
>

New page in Wiki

2018-06-24 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

under "Start here" on this page https://picolisp.com/wiki/?documentation I
added a page called "The pros and cons of PicoLisp".

This is a more concise version of the current Tractatus Pico-Blaesicus,
which currently is still used as a demo for saerving web pages and
paragraph folding.

I intend to change that demo to more general stuff. The reason for that is
that people might think that the current demo *is* the official PicoLisp
documentation, which can be misleading.

Feel free to correct any errors :)

Best,
   Arie

Re: Wiki updated fonts etc.

2018-06-24 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Jean-Christophe,

thanks for the feedback!

Would you be so kind to update these things yourself?

It is quite impossible to forsee every wish. I just tried :)

If you remove bold from code, would you please have a look at the headers
h1..h6.

Before the headers were awkwardly big. I tried to change that a bit.

Also I made them italic for even numbered headers. When showing all of them
in a page, it still is a bit awkward. I do like the italic ones. Maybe they
should be italic alltogether?

Please be aware that they have different specs for bigger screens ...

Please have a look!

I am looking forward to concentrate on PicoLisp (examples) itself :)

Many thx!
   Arie

Op zo 24 jun. 2018 03:54 schreef Jean-Christophe Helary <
brandel...@gmail.com>:

> Nice job. :)
>
> I have just a few comments:
> 1) I liked the tongue-in-cheek tone of the top page with : Picolisp can
> do... Numbers !!! etc. The serious version of the current page makes
> picolisp look like any other lisp...
> 2) I don't think the bold font for code is a good idea but I don't
> remember if it was like this before or not
> 3) The examples display some differences. Some start with : some not, etc.
> I can fix that if that's OK.
>
> Also, there should be a reference to macOS in the Install section,
> something like:
>
> 4{Install on Linux}
> You came here to play with another programming language, right?
> If you're using a Debian-based Linux (like
> Ubuntu or Mint), simply install it with:
> :{
>$ sudo apt-get install picolisp
> }
> and check out the ^{https://software-lab.de/doc/tut.html tutorial}.
>
> Otherwise, grab the latest version -
> ^{https://software-lab.de/picoLisp.tgz [picoLisp.tgz]} - unpack it,
> follow the
> instructions from the ^{https://software-lab.de/INSTALL INSTALL} file,
> and /{then} check out the ^{https://software-lab.de/doc/tut.html
> tutorial}.
> 4{Install on Windows Sybsystem for Linux (WSL)}
> See here: ={WSL Install PicoLisp on Windows 10}
> 4{Install on macOS}
> It is not possible to install picolisp on macOS, or even to build it
> without significant modifications to the code. The easiest way to access it
> on your machine is to install it on a lightweight Linux system and to ssh
> to it.
>
> JC
>
> On Jun 24, 2018, at 1:46, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> today the CSS for the Wiki has been updated.
>
> It is really difficult to find appropriate fonts, font-sizes and -colors.
>
> 1. menu now has bright white letters, which is better for people having
> difficulty with reading
>
> 2. headers are a bit smaller, but maybe they need a bit of adjustment still
>
> I already updated the:
>- Wiki home
>- Wiki documentation
>- Wiki collection of examples
>- all underlying PLEAC example pages
> to optimally use the new layout.
>
> I hope this will work for most people. If not, feel free to contact me or
> make changes yourself :)
>
> What is not yet done is what Karl-Heinz suggested. I think that is more a
> PicoLisp code thing that generates HTML. @Karl-Heinz: could you look into
> that?
>
> I'll try to update other pages to better match the changed possibilities
> as well.
>
> BTW I'll try and use the mailing list only for this kind of announcements
> to avoid clutter. Since I am a dinosaur I was not aware that much :)
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
>
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>
>
>

Re: Screenshot of local Wiki

2018-06-23 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Johann,

good catch!

But this is only a test page included in the Wiki installation files.
At first I didn't realize about this test stuff, hence the confusion.

In the official Wiki this is not an issue :)

Anyway, thx. for helping!

Best,
   Arie

Op za 23 jun. 2018 om 18:57 schreef Johann-Tobias Schäg :

>
>
> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 23. Juni 2018 6:46 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Screenshot of local Wiki
>
> What do you mean? Where precisely?
>
> Op za 23 jun. 2018 om 14:17 schreef Joh-Tob Schäg :
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> i find the black on black text very hard to read
>>
>> 2018-06-23 12:16 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden :
>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Wiki updated fonts etc.

2018-06-23 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

today the CSS for the Wiki has been updated.

It is really difficult to find appropriate fonts, font-sizes and -colors.

1. menu now has bright white letters, which is better for people having
difficulty with reading

2. headers are a bit smaller, but maybe they need a bit of adjustment still

I already updated the:
   - Wiki home
   - Wiki documentation
   - Wiki collection of examples
   - all underlying PLEAC example pages
to optimally use the new layout.

I hope this will work for most people. If not, feel free to contact me or
make changes yourself :)

What is not yet done is what Karl-Heinz suggested. I think that is more a
PicoLisp code thing that generates HTML. @Karl-Heinz: could you look into
that?

I'll try to update other pages to better match the changed possibilities as
well.

BTW I'll try and use the mailing list only for this kind of announcements
to avoid clutter. Since I am a dinosaur I was not aware that much :)

Best,
   Arie

Re: Screenshot of local Wiki

2018-06-23 Thread Arie van Wingerden

What do you mean? Where precisely?

Op za 23 jun. 2018 om 14:17 schreef Joh-Tob Schäg :

> Hello,
>
> i find the black on black text very hard to read
>
> 2018-06-23 12:16 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden :
>
>>
>>
>

Screenshot of local Wiki

2018-06-23 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Re: Proposal for Wiki CSS changes

2018-06-22 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Yes, that's ok.
I'll setup the Wiki locally and try to get it as proposed :)
Thx!

2018-06-22 18:51 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > well, I will try :)
> > But my knowledge of this kind of stuff is very limited ...
> >
> > This will take a bit of time.
>
> No hurry :)
>
> I'd recommend you ask in IRC if you are not sure about some of the details.
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Proposal for Wiki CSS changes

2018-06-22 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

well, I will try :)
But my knowledge of this kind of stuff is very limited ...

This will take a bit of time.

Best,
   Arie


2018-06-22 18:05 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > please find attached the desired changes to the CSS.
>
> It is not clear to me what has to be changed, added or deleded. Can't you
> just send me the modified "wiki/lib.css"?
>
> Same for the other changes. Not clear which context is meant ...
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Proposal for Wiki CSS changes

2018-06-22 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

please find attached the desired changes to the CSS.

Apart from a few obvious changes, there are a few things Alex has to take
into account:

- I assumed that lines entered without specific mark-up would be put in 
paragraphs

- the background color of the menu

- a few tips of Karl-Heinz

I hope this all is doable :)

@Alex: please let me know ...

Best,
   Arie
1) Please update the next styles (# == comments):

   # Use default sizes please :)
   h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  font-family: "Verdana", "Arial";
  color: MidnightBlue;
   }

   # Please add mark-up code for !
   # Keep  for paragraphs (goes currently without explicit mark-up)
   #
   # I assume that  is used for any text without specific mark-up?
   # In any case it would be nice that default text has these specs.
   p, pre {
  font-family: "Verdana", "Arial";
  font-size: 14px;
   }

   # Note the font-family and -weight.   
   .code {
  color: black;
  font-size: smaller;
  font-weight: 550;
  font-family: 'Courier New', monospace;
  background-color: #dddeee;
  border-left-color: #6067af;
  border-left-style: solid;
  border-left-width: 3px;
  border-radius: 1px;
  padding: 1px 2px;
  margin-right: 1px;
  overflow-x: auto;

2) I got a reaction on the menu. Because the background is so dark, it is not
   so good readable for the visually impaired ...
   Maybe a bit lighter background?

3) Also please take into account the following remarks:
   ==
   Karl-Heinz Kreis
   The Text enclosed in divs does function as heading, so better use
   headings (example below). The divs are better suited to enclose a
   complete sublist, see 2nd example below. That snippet actually works in
   a testing page :). The necessary Styles can be placed into the .css
   file.

   Start here
   
   https://software-lab.de/doc/tut.html;>A PicoLisp
   Tutorial Explore the language on this guided tour. Refreshments
   to follow!
   ...
   https://software-lab.de/doc/index.html;>The Common
   Index The essential PicoLisp documentation in one gloriously
   hyperlinked document. 
   
   
   Start here

Test
more text...

...

 
   ==

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

2018-06-21 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Olaf,

tomorrow I'll post my complete proposal of changes.

Thx. for testing!
   Arie

2018-06-21 15:49 GMT+02:00 O.Hamann :

> Hi Arie,
>
> called the page on 2 different smartphones, Tablet and Desktop (but
> Firefox everywhere) and found headers and text okay.
>
> Text is zoomable and responsive in landscape/portrait mode.
>
> I like it  (except the lightgreen background color :-), but that's out of
> scope of headers and top text).
>
> Greetings, Olaf
>
>
>
> On 18.06.2018 11:16, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
>> everybody to have a look at this page:
>> https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation
>>
>> Question:
>> - are the headers OK?
>> - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
>>
>>
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

2018-06-20 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Karl-Heinz,

yes. I understand that :)

After friday I'll post my proposed changes here.
With those it will be possible to use the CSS defaults by the easy Wiki
mark-up.

Thx. for helping!
   Arie

2018-06-19 23:12 GMT+02:00 Karl-Heinz Kreis :

> Hi Arie,
>
> When the markup for headings is updated in the wiki.css, you won't have
> to retype that again and again. In wiki-markup that should read like
> 
> ${
> 5{Start here}
> *{
> -{ first }
> -{ second }
> }
> }
> 
> With '${' on a line for itself you get an empty Style attribute, which
> reverts to standard, set by global and css settings done earlier.
> As Example i have edited the Introduction at the start of the
> Documentation page.
>
> My Best, Karl-Heinz
>
>
> > Hi Karl-Heinz,
> >
> > ok. That is out of my reach :)
> >
> > @Alex can we take that into account when updating the rest of the CSS?
> >
> > Thx!
> >Arie
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

2018-06-18 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Karl-Heinz,

ok. That is out of my reach :)

@Alex can we take that into account when updating the rest of the CSS?

Thx!
   Arie

2018-06-18 14:16 GMT+02:00 Karl-Heinz Kreis :

> Hi all,
>
> On the Menu on top, try a lighter textcolor, ie. lightgrey, to enhance
> contrast. Stark white could be to much...
>
> On the generated html:
>
> The Text enclosed in divs does function as heading, so better use
> headings (example below). The divs are better suited to enclose a
> complet sublist, see 2nd example below. That snippet actually works in
> a testing page :). The necessary Styles can be placed into the .css
> file.
>
> Hopefully my remarks will help.
>
>
> Best, khk
>
> P.S.:
> My knowledge of HTML and CSS stems from reworking a CMS-free Site, ftp
> access only, which was the the produce of Dreamweaver in the hands of a
> printer ;)
>
>
>  example of generated html
> Start here
>
> 
>https://software-lab.de/doc/tut.html;>A PicoLisp
> Tutorial Explore the language on this guided tour. Refreshments
> to follow!
>...
>  https://software-lab.de/doc/index.html;>The Common
>  Index The essential PicoLisp documentation in one gloriously
>  hyperlinked document.
> 
> 
> Start here
> 
> Test
> more text...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
> > everybody to have a look at this page:
> > https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation
> >
> > Question:
> > - are the headers OK?
> > - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
> >
> > Note that we wish to recognize visually impaired people!
> >
> > Please react before friday 22th of june 2018.
> >
> > After that we'll change the defaults.
> >
> > Best,
> >Arie
>
>

Re: Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

2018-06-18 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Jean-Christophe,

the top text just serves as an example for what I intend to change the rest
of the Wiki default text to.
Because I now still have to insert CSS per each paragraph, I only did it
for this one piece of text :)

Best,
   Arie

2018-06-18 13:11 GMT+02:00 Jean-Christophe Helary :

> Arie,
>
> Is there a reason why there are 2 different fonts: one for the
> Introduction and one for the rest ?
>
> JC
>
>
> On Jun 18, 2018, at 18:16, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
> everybody to have a look at this page: https://picolisp.com/
> wiki/?Documentation
>
> Question:
> - are the headers OK?
> - is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?
>
> Note that we wish to recognize visually impaired people!
>
> Please react before friday 22th of june 2018.
>
> After that we'll change the defaults.
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
>
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>
>
>

Wiki - asking for last calls on fonts etc.

2018-06-18 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

since I really want to push forward with the Wiki, I'd like to ask
everybody to have a look at this page:
https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation

Question:
- are the headers OK?
- is the top text OK (under header "Introduction"?

Note that we wish to recognize visually impaired people!

Please react before friday 22th of june 2018.

After that we'll change the defaults.

Best,
   Arie

Re: Wiki fonts etc.

2018-06-18 Thread Arie van Wingerden

I changed that now.
Is that OK?






2018-06-18 10:53 GMT+02:00 Jean-Christophe Helary :

>
>
> On Jun 18, 2018, at 17:05, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>
> Hi Michel,
>
> good to know!
>
> Please let me know if:
> - the sub headers are OK
> - the upper text in light blue is OK
>
>
> If I may suggest, I think the light blue background impairs reading. The
> current font is fine but removing the background and the bold would greatly
> improve the reading experience.
>
> Jean-Christophe
>

Re: Wiki fonts etc.

2018-06-18 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Michel,

good to know!

Please let me know if:
- the sub headers are OK
- the upper text in light blue is OK
on https://picolisp.com/wiki/?documentation

If not, please state what could improve: bigger, blacker etc.

That might be a starting position.

Thx. for the help!
   Arie


2018-06-17 20:50 GMT+02:00 Michel Pelletier :

> I am also slightly vision impaired and prefer higher contrast and/or
> larger fonts.
>
> Quite a few good tips here https://webaim.org/techniques/fonts/
>
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 6:25 AM, Arie van Wingerden 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> being busy with the Wiki, I try to find some nice standards for fonts.
>>
>> On this page https://picolisp.com/wiki/?documentation all elements are
>> used.
>>
>> I'd like to use:
>>- main header:
>> using current markup 4{ }
>>- all sub headers:
>> color: MidnightBlue;
>> font-family: "Arial Black";
>> font-size: 20px;
>>- default Wiki font:
>> font-family: "Verdana";
>> font-size: 14px;
>> font-weight: bold;
>>  [Note: this font is shown in the top light blue paragraph]
>>- special attention paragraphs:
>> background-color: lightcyan;
>> but using the default Wiki font.
>>
>> Personally I like blacker fonts, not the least because I myself have not
>> all too good eyesight. So, I guess this would make it easier for a lot of
>> folks.
>>
>> Furthermore the font is smaller than before, making it a bit more
>> overseeable and compact (in the spirit of PicoLisp).
>>
>> If anybody has problems with those fonts, please let me know.
>>
>> If not, I'll ask Alex to update the default mark-up a bit.
>>
>> Best,
>>Arie
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: Wiki fonts etc.

2018-06-17 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Jean-Christophe .

you are right!

In fact I am not very much acquainted with this kind of stuff, so I just
read a bit about what "generic font-families" and "fall-back fonts" in fact
are.
Also I agree on a monospaced font for code examples. Much better readable.

The current mark-up defaults are a bit awkward.
I hope that the commuinity together can help further to create a nicer look
for the Wiki!

Thx. for helping!
   Arie


2018-06-17 16:04 GMT+02:00 Jean-Christophe Helary :

> Arie,
>
> It would be nice if you could use generic font families as fall-back
> values too.
> Also, the code examples have a very tight font that I find hard to read on
> the screen, redefining that as at least a standard monospace would be nice
> :)
>
> Jean-Christophe
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2018, at 22:25, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> being busy with the Wiki, I try to find some nice standards for fonts.
>
> On this page https://picolisp.com/wiki/?documentation all elements are
> used.
>
> I'd like to use:
>- main header:
> using current markup 4{ }
>- all sub headers:
> color: MidnightBlue;
> font-family: "Arial Black";
> font-size: 20px;
>- default Wiki font:
> font-family: "Verdana";
> font-size: 14px;
> font-weight: bold;
>  [Note: this font is shown in the top light blue paragraph]
>- special attention paragraphs:
> background-color: lightcyan;
> but using the default Wiki font.
>
> Personally I like blacker fonts, not the least because I myself have not
> all too good eyesight. So, I guess this would make it easier for a lot of
> folks.
>
> Furthermore the font is smaller than before, making it a bit more
> overseeable and compact (in the spirit of PicoLisp).
>
> If anybody has problems with those fonts, please let me know.
>
> If not, I'll ask Alex to update the default mark-up a bit.
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
>
>
>
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>
>
>

Wiki fonts etc.

2018-06-17 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

being busy with the Wiki, I try to find some nice standards for fonts.

On this page https://picolisp.com/wiki/?documentation all elements are used.

I'd like to use:
   - main header:
using current markup 4{ }
   - all sub headers:
color: MidnightBlue;
font-family: "Arial Black";
font-size: 20px;
   - default Wiki font:
font-family: "Verdana";
font-size: 14px;
font-weight: bold;
 [Note: this font is shown in the top light blue paragraph]
   - special attention paragraphs:
background-color: lightcyan;
but using the default Wiki font.

Personally I like blacker fonts, not the least because I myself have not
all too good eyesight. So, I guess this would make it easier for a lot of
folks.

Furthermore the font is smaller than before, making it a bit more
overseeable and compact (in the spirit of PicoLisp).

If anybody has problems with those fonts, please let me know.

If not, I'll ask Alex to update the default mark-up a bit.

Best,
   Arie

Reworked main documentation page

2018-06-16 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

I reworked the main doc page a bit:

   - bit more stylish (smaller font headers)
   - consistent grouping
   - moved a few links to the now separate examples page
   - and v.v.

Also I intend to continue to rework pages.

My todo's for near future are:

   - rework the frontpage of the Wiki, where I'll put the essence of the
   textual content of Tractatus Blaesicus
   - rework Tractatus Blaesicus itself to a nice(r) demo
   - create useful reference docs to the libraries

Best,
   Arie

Re: PLEAC last part finished (File Access)

2018-06-16 Thread Arie van Wingerden

OK. I changed that to an example using redirection of STDIN to a file.

2018-06-16 15:56 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden :

> Or do you mean e.g. something line:
>   ./script  ??
>
> Thx.
>
> 2018-06-16 15:38 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden :
>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> please have a look.
>>
>> I am still not very sure about the read STDIN until EOF.
>>
>> I created a small script, but when is EOF of STDIN really signalled???
>>
>> Maybe a small example?
>>
>> Thx,
>>Arie
>>
>
>

Re: PLEAC last part finished (File Access)

2018-06-16 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Or do you mean e.g. something line:
  ./script :

> Hi Alex,
>
> please have a look.
>
> I am still not very sure about the read STDIN until EOF.
>
> I created a small script, but when is EOF of STDIN really signalled???
>
> Maybe a small example?
>
> Thx,
>Arie
>

PLEAC last part finished (File Access)

2018-06-16 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

please have a look.

I am still not very sure about the read STDIN until EOF.

I created a small script, but when is EOF of STDIN really signalled???

Maybe a small example?

Thx,
   Arie

Re: PLEAC Pattern Matching ready

2018-06-16 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,



> Yes, fully. But also (>= "Z" C "A")
>

Right!


> > > Also a few lines down:  (chop "abcd efg")))
> > ?? What is wrong?
> Only the spacing of closing parens  (chop "abcd efg") ) )
>

OK! I'll take the pp advice :)

Thx. again!
   Arie

Re: PLEAC Pattern Matching ready

2018-06-16 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

This is a little inefficient, and the indentation and parenthesis
> placements are a
> not right. I would suggest:
>
>(de isalpha? (Lst)
>   (fully
>  '((C)
> (or (>= "Z" C "A") (>= "z" C "a")) )
>  Lst ) )
>

Great! Nice function. Didn't know that :)


> Also a few lines down:  (chop "abcd efg")))
>

?? What is wrong?
You mean this example?

: (make
   (find
 '((C) (or (sp? C) (nil (link C
 (chop "abcd efg")))
   -> ("a" "b" "c" "d")

It seems that this works OK?
Please explain!


> Besides this: Very good!
>

Thx!


> I got quite fed up with PLEAC after a while. All the tasks are rather
> simple-
> minded, suitable mainly for Perl's focus on regular expressions (If you
> have a
> hammer, everything looks like a nail to you).
>

Ah. OK! Well, I won't bother myself then to dive into the rest.
At least we've saved them from possible extinction :)

Best,
   Arie

Question on PLEAC example

2018-06-16 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

just started on chapter 7.
You give this code as an example.

   # Read STDIN till EOF

   : (setq Var (in NIL (till NIL T)))
   This is a line
   a peaceful line
   it is not drunk
   it drinks no wine
   # Here I pressed ctrl+d which forces PicoLisp to end

As discussed earlier you cannot simulate an EOF from STDIN.
So, why then such example. It seems not useful at all...

Please comment :)

Thx,
   Arie

Lubuntu

2018-06-15 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

instead of Windows WSL. I now have Lubuntu running virtually.

TL;DR;

After a period of working with Windows WSL I was fairly satisfied.

However, things are very different under the hood, so that some PicoLisp
stuff just doesn't work.

I imagine that the Micro$oft people are not able to solve these issues,
since Windows is quite different from Linux.

In the past I had difficulty on my current PC to get virtualization
working. I now found out that those settings were hidden somewhere in the
BIOS I didn't expect them at all :)

So, I now have Lubuntu running under VirtualBox, which gives me a very nice
and integrated experiende.

Also the PicoLisp version for the default installed package is 18.2.17.
which seems to be quite current, or not?

In fact I first installed MX Linux, which I like, but it had a PicoLisp
version 16. somewhat.

Since I help quite a lot of people with their Windows sh*t, I cannot leave
it for now. If the time comes, I think I'll start running Lubuntu natively
and Windows virtually :)

Best,
   Arie

PLEAC Pattern Matching ready

2018-06-15 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

please check chapter 6 on pattern matching.

This chapter and the following one are incomplete and all the rest was not
yet done. Maybe that is something for the future:) I hope that some other
PicoLispers have the courage to dive in and make PLEAC more complete. I'll
then take care of transferring those examples to the Wiki.

Thx,
   Arie

Re: Tractatus Blaesicus

2018-06-13 Thread Arie van Wingerden

OK. Then I'll proceed that way :)


Op wo 13 jun. 2018 19:48 schreef Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > My idea was indeed to replace the current contents with something else.
> > Tractatus logico-philosophicus is a great suggestion (mind you, I
> didn'read
> > it yet ... :)
>
> Haha, me neither. I have the book, but never managed to get beyond the
> first
> three or four pages, and then jumped to the conclusion ("7. Wovon man nicht
> sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen").
>
>
> > Maybe it should be a bit more explicit, with a header stating explicitly:
> > "Demo of PicoLisp dynamically generated HTML" or something like that.
>
> OK
>
>
> > Currently people could have the idea that these are the main docs on
> > PicoLisp, which is not good I think.
>
> True
>
>
> > As you earlier suggested Tractatus logico-philosophicus would be a nice
> > replacement
>
> However, it is too big for this purpose, I think.
>
>
> > Well, I intend to first complete PLEAC.
> > After that I'd really like to:
> >
> >- update the Wiki front page a bit (in the spirit of Tractatus
> >Blaesicus), which preserves it and probably makes it more visible
> >- try my hand at the replacement of TB (with a bit of help maybe)
> >- create standardized Wiki docs for Library References
> >- rework my extra sample page a bit
> >
> > Would you agree?
>
> Yes, this sounds very good.
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Tractatus Blaesicus

2018-06-13 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

> Yes, but the point is not the text, but the interaction with it.

Understood. That's why a demo of such kind is still needed :)

> In fact, it was created as a parody of Wittgenstein, not as a serious
tool to
> explain or teach PicoLisp. A nice exercise would be to replace the
current text
> with that of the old Tractatus logico-philosophicus :)

My idea was indeed to replace the current contents with something else.
Tractatus logico-philosophicus is a great suggestion (mind you, I didn'read
it yet ... :)

> >- explicit mention of being created with PicoLisp
>> Yes, that's why the link to the source is there.

Maybe it should be a bit more explicit, with a header stating explicitly:
"Demo of PicoLisp dynamically generated HTML" or something like that.

> >- more stand-alone example (in the same sense as your geneology demo)
> Is it not stand-alone? It runs as

Babel :) I mean that the example contents better shouldn't be related to
PicoLisp.
Currently people could have the idea that these are the main docs on
PicoLisp, which is not good I think.
As you earlier suggested Tractatus logico-philosophicus would be a nice
replacement

> >would be better appreciated I think ...
> Correct. This was the purpose (demo of Pil).

OK.

> What would you suggest how do it?

Well, I intend to first complete PLEAC.
After that I'd really like to:

   - update the Wiki front page a bit (in the spirit of Tractatus
   Blaesicus), which preserves it and probably makes it more visible
   - try my hand at the replacement of TB (with a bit of help maybe)
   - create standardized Wiki docs for Library References
   - rework my extra sample page a bit

Would you agree?

Thx!
   Arie

Re: Tractatus Blaesicus

2018-06-13 Thread Arie van Wingerden

So, I think there are 2 things to be done really:

1. a more attractive intro on the main Wiki page, which could use the
enhanced and extended text of Tractatus Blaesicus

2. a demo similar to the current TB, but with:

   - explicit mention that it really has the purpose of a demo
   - explicit mention of being created with PicoLisp
   - more stand-alone example (in the same sense as your geneology demo)

   That way it is less confusing, because I think that it is currently not
very attractive
   as a way to get to know PicoLisp :) If explicitly stated that is is a
demo of Pil it
   would be better appreciated I think ...

Agreed?

/Arie

2018-06-13 13:34 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:05:38PM +0200, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
> > Of course it *is* useful, however, reading it is very tedious, not the
> > least because every time you wish to open a sub paragraph, the page
> "jumps"
> > to the top.
>
> It is intended to be opened and closed while browsing, so normally I do
> not get
> to a point where it is larger than the screen size so that it jumps.
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Tractatus Blaesicus

2018-06-13 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Andreas,

that is a very good idea. If Alex is OK I will try and do such thing.

Best,
   Arie

2018-06-13 12:38 GMT+02:00 :

> I would like to see the first paragraph of the wiki start page replaced
> with an eye-catching, easy to understand variant of the Tractatus Blaesicus.
> I think this would be a much better opener instead that cheeky first
> paragraph.
>
> -beneroth
>
>
> Am 2018-06-13 12:05, schrieb Arie van Wingerden:
>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> would it be an ides to transfer the contents of this to a simpler page
>> on the Wiki?
>>
>> Of course it *is* useful, however, reading it is very tedious, not the
>> least because every time you wish to open a sub paragraph, the page
>> "jumps" to the top.
>>
>> Personally I think this could be done better. After that maybe the
>> current Tractatus Blaesicus page could provide a very short "teaser"
>> for PicoLisp followed by the appropriate Wiki link (to be made). That
>> way we wouldn't use the link, which is present in all search engines
>> for a long time ...
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Best,
>>Arie
>>
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Tractatus Blaesicus

2018-06-13 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

would it be an ides to transfer the contents of this to a simpler page on
the Wiki?

Of course it *is* useful, however, reading it is very tedious, not the
least because every time you wish to open a sub paragraph, the page "jumps"
to the top.

Personally I think this could be done better. After that maybe the current
Tractatus Blaesicus page could provide a very short "teaser" for PicoLisp
followed by the appropriate Wiki link (to be made). That way we wouldn't
use the link, which is present in all search engines for a long time ...

What do you think?

Best,
   Arie

Re: Wiki progress again: hashes

2018-06-13 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Added that example.
You'd like it :)

2018-06-13 9:22 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden :

> Hi Alex,
>
> please be aware that all those examples were (long ago) created by
> yourself :)
> So all creadits go to you!
>
> I only transfer them to the Wiki, with a nice layout and as simple to use
> as possible.
> So, I only did change a few things :)
>
> Having references to all functions used is a nice thing though ...
>
> I'll look into 'rassoc' and add that as an example.
>
> In the future I hope to create more examples myself.
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
> 2018-06-12 20:27 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :
>
>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 04:39:34PM +0200, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
>> > the 'hashes' section is now ready.
>>
>> Very good again!
>>
>> For "Inverting a Hash" there is - besides your version of 'cons'ing CDRs
>> and
>> CARs to an inverted association list - now also a direct way: The 'rassoc'
>> (reverse assoc) function.
>>
>> 'rassoc' is relatively new in PicoLisp, and did not exist when the PLEAC
>> solutions were written originally.
>>
>> ♪♫ Alex
>>
>> --
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>>
>
>

Re: Wiki progress again: hashes

2018-06-13 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

please be aware that all those examples were (long ago) created by yourself
:)
So all creadits go to you!

I only transfer them to the Wiki, with a nice layout and as simple to use
as possible.
So, I only did change a few things :)

Having references to all functions used is a nice thing though ...

I'll look into 'rassoc' and add that as an example.

In the future I hope to create more examples myself.

Best,
   Arie

2018-06-12 20:27 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 04:39:34PM +0200, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
> > the 'hashes' section is now ready.
>
> Very good again!
>
> For "Inverting a Hash" there is - besides your version of 'cons'ing CDRs
> and
> CARs to an inverted association list - now also a direct way: The 'rassoc'
> (reverse assoc) function.
>
> 'rassoc' is relatively new in PicoLisp, and did not exist when the PLEAC
> solutions were written originally.
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Question on PLEAC hashes example

2018-06-12 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

done!

Thx,
   Arie

2018-06-12 16:05 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > This example (in "Traversing a Hash"):
> >
> >#-
> ># download the following standalone program
> >#!/usr/bin/picolisp /usr/lib/picolisp/lib.l
> >
> >(load "@lib/misc.l")
> >
> >(in (opt)
> >   (until (eof)
> >  (when (match '(~(chop "From: ") @From) (line))
> > (accu 'From @From 1) ) ) )
> >
> >(for Person (sort From)
> >   (prinl (car Person) ": " (cdr Person)) )
> >
> >(bye)
> >
> > again has no input file given.
>
> I don't remember at all ;) But you could simply make something up.
>
> For example a file with
>
>abc
>From: Rory Gallagher
>def
>From: Jimi Hendrix
>ghi
>From: Eric Clapton
>jkl
>From: Rory Gallagher
>mno
>
> gives
>
>Eric Clapton: 1
>Jimi Hendrix: 1
>Rory Gallagher: 2
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Wiki progress ...

2018-06-12 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,


> Is this intended? Or is the third line missing? ;)
>

Indeed; corrected :)

In "4.3.1. Iterate over a list" you could put in addition to the 'for' loop:
>
>(mapc println mylist)  # Probably better Mylist
>

Done and done.


> Note that instead of
>
>: (for I (length lst)
>   (println I (get lst I)) )
>
> it  is easier with
>
>: (for (I . X) Lst
>   (println I X) )
>
> Also note the upper case variables!
>

Done and done.


> In the part
>
># Destructively 'pop' elements off a list
>: (setq
>   Friends '(Peter Paul Mary Jim Tim)
>   This (pop 'Friends)
>   That (pop 'Friends) )
>
> the word "Destructively" is not correct. 'pop' is not destructice, it does
> not
> modify the list (only the variable pointing to it).
>

Right. Corrected.


> Later we have
>
># then sets this special variable 'This' to the result of the
># 'find' function.
>
> I think you meant "parameter" instead of "result".
>

No, on purpose.
I refer to the 'with'docs:
   Saves the current object This and sets it to the new value sym, which is
the outcome of find (the result).

Thx. for the comments!
   Arie

Wiki progress again: hashes

2018-06-12 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

the 'hashes' section is now ready.
Please have a look :)

Best,
   Arie

Failing example PLEAC

2018-06-12 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

the attached program dutree.l seems to misbehave in Windows WSL.

Would you please verify that it works correctly under native Linux?

TIA,
   Arie


dutree.l
Description: Binary data

Wiki progress ...

2018-06-12 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

the page on "Arrays" is ready. This was quite abit of work :)

In this case I had to dive in a few times and with some great help I
learned a lot from that.

My mindset had to change quite a bit. I worked with other Lisps, which
(almost) all were lexically scoped.

Now I saw quite a few advantages of dynamic scoping :) However,some other
times with lexical scoping things are a bit easier to grasp.

@Alex Would you please check this page?

Best,
   Arie

Re: picolisp at last ?

2018-06-12 Thread Arie van Wingerden

OK. Good to hear you succeeded :)

2018-06-12 9:36 GMT+02:00 Jean-Christophe Helary :

>
>
> On Jun 12, 2018, at 15:28, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>
> OK.
> My WSL installation is Ubuntu based.
> Could you try e.g. Lubuntu in a VM?
>
>
> Actually I got it working under Debian the other day. I thought that Tiny
> Core Linux was more lightweight since I'd only use Virtual box for that...
> :)
> What I'll do is just install the CL interface and install picolisp from
> there.
> Thank you for the advice.
>
>
>
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>
>
>

Re: picolisp at last ?

2018-06-12 Thread Arie van Wingerden

OK.
My WSL installation is Ubuntu based.
Could you try e.g. Lubuntu in a VM?

I got a recent version of PicoLisp just installing it using apt, and it
works well ...

Op ma 11 jun. 2018 23:31 schreef Jean-Christophe Helary <
brandel...@gmail.com>:

>
>
> On Jun 12, 2018, at 2:36, Arie van Wingerden  wrote:
>
> Hi Jean-Christophe,
>
> what host system are you using?
>
>
> macOS. I was brandelune on IRC :)
>
> JC
>
> If on Windows 10 with the last april update WSL is really stable!
> And PicoLisp works just fine.
> There are a few "limits" in that some features do not exist in WSL, e.g.
> there is no /etc/passwd file and such.
> For the rest all works OK.
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
> 2018-06-11 16:55 GMT+02:00 Jean-Christophe Helary :
>
>> Does anybody has better results with tinycorelinux ?
>>
>> JC
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2018, at 22:25, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:28, Alexander Williams 
>> wrote:
>>
>> +1 TinyCore,
>>
>> I use it for most of my work and testing Linux applications.
>>
>> I'm also the "maintainer" of PicoLisp on TinyCore (64-bit only), so you
>> can install it (v17.12) with:
>>
>>  tce-load -wi picolisp picolisp-lib picolisp-doc
>>
>>
>> I'm having a 404 error on the main tinycorelinux repository... :(
>>
>>

Re: Wiki progress

2018-06-12 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Olaf,

no problem at all.

For now I'll concentrate on the docs themselves.

Hope you can find some time for PicoLisp again.

If all goes well I can publish the Arrays section of PLEAC later today :)

Best,
   Arie

Op ma 11 jun. 2018 22:31 schreef O.Hamann :

> Hi Arie,
>
> keep on doing as before, I won't disturb you doing your fine work by
> hasseling with my style issues.
>
> I thought it would be more easy to centralize the special element
> formattings you used.
>
> But I did not realize, that there seems to be no wiki syntax to use css
> classes at the moment.
>
>
> So keep on copy-pasting the text-formatting for the especially formatted
> text portions, we could fix that later.
>
>
> I tried to check if I would be able to enhance the wiki/lib.l by myself,
>
> but I stumbled into pil running problems and was not able to install a
> fresh picolisp as I did years ago,
>
> so I have to put this aside for the moment. It seems that I'm out with
> coding picolisp for too long. Very sad.
>
> So I'm looking forward for further nice doc examples written by you,
>
> and hopefully get more time for picolisping in the future :-)
>
>
> Apologize for the trouble,
>
> Olaf
>
>
>
> On 11.06.2018 12:49, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
> > Hi Olaf,
> >
> > as far as I understood Alex the main CSS file currently used is
> > maintained centrally.
> >
> > If you download https://software-lab.de/wiki.tgz
> > <https://software-lab.de/wiki.tgz> you can extract the file 'wiki.css'.
> > I guess that that is the current CSS file for the Wiki.
> >
> > What I am using currently is 2 specialized CSS styles:
> >
> > 1.   ${color: MidnightBlue; font-family: "Arial Black"; font-size: 20px;
> >  for headings / paragraphs. I don't think that we really need
> > different sizes
> >
> > 2.  ${background-color: LightCyan;
> >  for explanations that deserve to stand out a bit
> >  Maybe you could use another (light) background color; I am not
> > sure about that ...
> >
> > Since I'm not too acquainted with CSS maybe you could update it and
> > send it back to Alex?
> > Also, if you have better ideas, I'd like to hear / see them :)
> >
> > Would you do this?
> >
> > Thx.
> >Arie
> >
> >
> >
> > 2018-06-11 9:12 GMT+02:00 O.Hamann  > <mailto:o.ham...@gmx.net>>:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I meant a way to collect the formatting into a css class,
> > then to mark all relevant pieces of text with this class.
> >
> > So, perhaps it might be helpful - and would not be too diverse
> > from the current usage - if the ${...} structure would
> > recognize/refer to css classes?
> > (or perhaps I missed sth. and there is already syntax for applying
> > css class names to portions of the text?
> >then please forget the rest of this post)
> >
> > I think there is no css attribute 'class', so that it could not be
> > mistaken.
> >
> > Rules which one wins if there css attributes *and* css classes
> > mentioned, could be left to the browser - I guess, the element
> > formatting will override the class formatting.
> >
> > There can be more css classes be assigned to one element,
> > so sth. like
> > class: class-a ; class: class-b ;
> > or class: class-a class-b ;
> > must be recognized by the parser.
> >
> > Common css notation of css classes  is the dot prefixed to a class
> > name,
> > so if it would be easier to implement, one could
> > simply use   .class-a .class-b
> > but how to divide this from the element formatting in same structure?
> >
> >
> > Instead of:
> >
> >   ${ Example:
> >        CSS attributes (*)${text-align: center;
> >  } 2{PicoLisp Documentation}}
> >
> > sth like:
> > ${Example:
> >CSS attributes or class names (*) ${text-align: center;
> > class: hilited-background;
> >  }  2{PicoLisp Documentation}}
> >
> > and defined in css file:
> > hilited-background { background-color: black; color: white; }
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 09.06.2018 17:40, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
> >
> > Hi Olaf,
> >
> > thx!
> >
> > Per accident I stumbled on the pos

Re: picolisp at last ?

2018-06-11 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Jean-Christophe,

what host system are you using?
If on Windows 10 with the last april update WSL is really stable!
And PicoLisp works just fine.
There are a few "limits" in that some features do not exist in WSL, e.g.
there is no /etc/passwd file and such.
For the rest all works OK.

Best,
   Arie

2018-06-11 16:55 GMT+02:00 Jean-Christophe Helary :

> Does anybody has better results with tinycorelinux ?
>
> JC
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 22:25, Jean-Christophe Helary 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2018, at 10:28, Alexander Williams 
> wrote:
>
> +1 TinyCore,
>
> I use it for most of my work and testing Linux applications.
>
> I'm also the "maintainer" of PicoLisp on TinyCore (64-bit only), so you
> can install it (v17.12) with:
>
>  tce-load -wi picolisp picolisp-lib picolisp-doc
>
>
> I'm having a 404 error on the main tinycorelinux repository... :(
>
>
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>
>

Re: Wiki progress

2018-06-11 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Olaf,

as far as I understood Alex the main CSS file currently used is maintained
centrally.

If you download https://software-lab.de/wiki.tgz you can extract the file
'wiki.css'.
I guess that that is the current CSS file for the Wiki.

What I am using currently is 2 specialized CSS styles:

1.   ${color: MidnightBlue; font-family: "Arial Black"; font-size: 20px;
 for headings / paragraphs. I don't think that we really need different
sizes

2.   ${background-color: LightCyan;
 for explanations that deserve to stand out a bit
 Maybe you could use another (light) background color; I am not sure
about that ...

Since I'm not too acquainted with CSS maybe you could update it and send it
back to Alex?
Also, if you have better ideas, I'd like to hear / see them :)

Would you do this?

Thx.
   Arie



2018-06-11 9:12 GMT+02:00 O.Hamann :

> Hi,
>
> I meant a way to collect the formatting into a css class,
> then to mark all relevant pieces of text with this class.
>
> So, perhaps it might be helpful - and would not be too diverse from the
> current usage - if the ${...} structure would recognize/refer to css
> classes?
> (or perhaps I missed sth. and there is already syntax for applying css
> class names to portions of the text?
>then please forget the rest of this post)
>
> I think there is no css attribute 'class', so that it could not be
> mistaken.
>
> Rules which one wins if there css attributes *and* css classes mentioned,
> could be left to the browser - I guess, the element formatting will
> override the class formatting.
>
> There can be more css classes be assigned to one element,
> so sth. like
> class: class-a ; class: class-b ;
> or class: class-a class-b ;
> must be recognized by the parser.
>
> Common css notation of css classes  is the dot prefixed to a class name,
> so if it would be easier to implement, one could
> simply use   .class-a .class-b
> but how to divide this from the element formatting in same structure?
>
>
> Instead of:
>
>   ${ Example:
>CSS attributes (*)${text-align: center;
>  } 2{PicoLisp Documentation}}
>
> sth like:
> ${Example:
>CSS attributes or class names (*)${text-align: center;
> class: hilited-background;
>  }  2{PicoLisp Documentation}}
>
> and defined in css file:
> hilited-background { background-color: black; color: white; }
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09.06.2018 17:40, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
>
>> Hi Olaf,
>>
>> thx!
>>
>> Per accident I stumbled on the possibility of adding a per elemnt CSS
>> style, since it wasn't documented at that moment. I added that to the
>> Wiki doc here: https://picolisp.com/wiki/?help
>>
>> Maybe there is a way to define classes etc. and use those.
>> I guess Alex would be the one knowing best, since he invented this Wiki :)
>>
>> For now I have no problem with it and I can change things very fast.
>>
>> @Alex Is there a way to do so?
>>
>> TIA,
>>Arie
>>
>> 2018-06-09 16:20 GMT+02:00 O.Hamann > <mailto:o.ham...@gmx.net>>:
>>
>>
>> Hi Arie,
>>
>> I do like your work on the documentation very much, no question.
>>
>> No doubt about the code content, if there sth would be wrong,
>> everyone would notice it.
>>
>>
>> But colors and font sizes are, besides look and feel, also a
>> matter of individual visual capabilities,
>>
>> so it might be that one day (as the small picolisp community seems
>> to be very faithful and gets older with the core :-) )
>>
>> s.o. decides to change the coloring of the wiki pages or will let
>> the reader change the font sizes themselves.
>>
>>
>> Would there be a way to use css classes instead of styling each
>> element individually?
>>
>> It would make work easier on both sides writing and changing.
>>
>> I don't know the wiki docs and if a css class syntax is provided
>> and I'm very sorry that I did not look it up,
>>
>> but your progress in work adds so nicely page for page, that I
>> thought I have to say it now,
>>
>> regardless that I do not have a solution or workaround to offer at
>> the moment.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps other reader of this list know, if there is already an
>> easy way to express in wiki syntax what will result in sth like
>> this  :
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> to match the

Re: Stuck at PLEAC example

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

So I guess that the possibility of using This as a formal parameter is a
goodie associated with dynamic scoping, which I am not (yet) really used to
..

It opens a few doors. Nice!

Op zo 10 jun. 2018 18:20 schreef Arie van Wingerden :

> Hi Alex,
> 
> 
> > I would do it this way:
> >
> >(setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
>
> OK. You don't use the values as names, but the properties, because you'd
> like to refer to (: name) in the 'prinl'.
> Got it.
>
> >(mapc put
> >   Employees
> >   '(name .)
> >   '("Abel" "Jones" "Millner" "Noles" "Zaphod") )
> >
> >(mapc put
> >   Employees
> >   '(category .)
> >   '(engineer cook teacher engineer vicar) )
>
> Agreed. Much less elaborate.
>
> >
> >(mapc show Employees)
>
> Nice and easy :)
>
> >
> >(with
> >   (find
> >  '((This) (== 'engineer (: category)))
> >  Employees )
> >   (prinl "Highest paid engineer is: " (: name))  )
>
>
> M
> aybe it would more appropriate to change "Highest paid engineer" to
> "First engineer found"?
>
> T
> he
> formal parameter
>  
> 'This' boggled my mind for a few minutes, but then it made sense :)
> Very nice trick indeed!
>
> Thx,
>Arie
>
>   
>

Re: Stuck at PLEAC example

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

???

I can do:

: (get (car Employees) 'category)
-> engineer

: (show (car Employees))
emp1 NIL
   category engineer
   name "Abel"
-> emp1

which just works fine for me!

2018-06-10 17:43 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :

>
> : (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
> -> engineer
> : (setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
> -> (emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5)
> : (get emp1 'category)
> -> engineer
> : (car Employees)
> -> emp1
> : (get (car Employees) 'category)
> -> NIL
> (get `(car Employees) 'category) ## Bad idea in a general use, but fine
> for testing.
> -> engineer
> : (get (car Employees) 'category)
> -> NIL
> : (show (car Employees))
> emp1 NIL
> -> emp1
> : (show emp1)
> NIL NIL
>category engineer
> -> NIL
>
> If you can wrap your head around that behavior it will make sense.
> *Von:* johtob...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:33 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> Also while pointer equality '== might be fine in this case '= makes more
> sense to me
>
> *Von:* johtob...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:31 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> You are right. But that does not change the fact that your code will
> misbehave if you do not define a name.
> 2. You did not mentioned mention how it does misbehavior so i assumed.
>
> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:25 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> Hi Johann,
>
> I think that is not correct.
>
> In the first place I think I don't need a name property. Only the
> 'category!
>
> In the second place: (get 'name emp1) will ALWAYS return NIL, because the
> function call is incorrect.
> It should be: (get emp1 'name)
>
> In my examples this works ok:
> : (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
> -> engineer
> : (get emp1 'category)
> -> engineer
>
> Also this works:
> : (with emp1
>  (prinl (: category)))
> engineer
> -> engineer
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
> 2018-06-10 16:14 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :
>
>>
>>
>> The first problem is that all your employees have no 'name property. (
>> get 'name emp1) -> NIL
>> But emp1 -> "Abel"
>>
>> But there is something else rotten. I can not spot. But try to get (with
>> 'emp1 (prinl (: name))) running first
>>
>> Regarding your 'This question:
>>  https://software-lab.de/doc/refT.html#This
>>
>>
>> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
>> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 2:20 nachm.
>> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
>> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
>> *Betreff:* Stuck at PLEAC example
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> I am now working on the "Arrays" section at "Find First Element that
>> passes a Test".
>>
>> Your example:
>>(with
>>   (find
>>  '((This) (== 'engineer (: category)))
>>  Employees )
>>   (prinl "Highest paid engineer is: " (: name))  )
>>
>> This won't work of course, so I created a few things:
>>: (setq emp1 "Abel" emp2 "Jones" emp3 "Millner" emp4 "Noles" emp5
>> "Zaphod")
>>-> "Zaphod"
>>
>>: (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
>>-> engineer
>>
>>: (put emp2 'category 'cook)
>>-> cook
>>
>>: (put emp3 'category 'teacher)
>>-> teacher
>>
>>: (put emp4 'category 'engineer)
>>-> engineer
>>
>>: (put emp5 'category 'vicar)
>>-> vicar
>>
>>: (setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
>>-> (emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5)
>>
>> I guessed that this list Employees would be OK to feed 'find';
>> however, from the ref docs of 'with' I do not grasp how I should get this
>> to work.
>>
>> Also, the function used by 'find' has a formal parameter named This. Is
>> this the PicoLisp special variable, or just a name for a formal parameter?
>>
>> Please give a complete example!
>>
>> What I experience now is exactly why I think that there should be more
>> and better approachable docs.
>>
>> I think the reference should either be expanded by more comprehensive
>> examples + explanations, or otherwise I'll try and do that later in the
>> Wiki where I started the new section (with now only the 'de' example).
>>
>> I feel you, because it is all "in your head", but B2B a.k.a.
>> brain-2-brain is not yet possible, regrettably :)
>>
>> Seeing all this stuff i am convinced that PicoLisp also could have been
>> named YottaLisp, because of the sheer amount of possibilities hidden below
>> the surface :)
>>
>> Best,
>>Arie
>>
>
>

Re: Stuck at PLEAC example

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Pls see previous reply.
I don't see the need for eval here ...

2018-06-10 18:05 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :

> The solution to the puzzle:
> (get (eval (car Employees)) 'category)
> -> engineer
>
> Your list contain named symbols called emp1, ... , emp5
> You associate the properties with emp1 in the global binding.
> But find looks for a symbol which contains the attribute 'category. But
> none of the symbols in the list do.
> what you expected that find would do is take a thing, and if it is a
> symbol look in the global binding what it means there and look up in that
> definition for 'category)
>
> Regenaxer's approach is:
> Make a list of named symbols and put the properties into the symbols of
> the list.
> after Regenaxer's code ran (get emp2 'name) should
> be NIL because why should the global binding care that some named symbol
> which is not part of it got changed?
>
>
> *Von:* johtob...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:43 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
>
> : (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
> -> engineer
> : (setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
> -> (emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5)
> : (get emp1 'category)
> -> engineer
> : (car Employees)
> -> emp1
> : (get (car Employees) 'category)
> -> NIL
> (get `(car Employees) 'category) ## Bad idea in a general use, but fine
> for testing.
> -> engineer
> : (get (car Employees) 'category)
> -> NIL
> : (show (car Employees))
> emp1 NIL
> -> emp1
> : (show emp1)
> NIL NIL
>category engineer
> -> NIL
>
> If you can wrap your head around that behavior it will make sense.
> *Von:* johtob...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:33 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> Also while pointer equality '== might be fine in this case '= makes more
> sense to me
>
> *Von:* johtob...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:31 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> You are right. But that does not change the fact that your code will
> misbehave if you do not define a name.
> 2. You did not mentioned mention how it does misbehavior so i assumed.
>
> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:25 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> Hi Johann,
>
> I think that is not correct.
>
> In the first place I think I don't need a name property. Only the
> 'category!
>
> In the second place: (get 'name emp1) will ALWAYS return NIL, because the
> function call is incorrect.
> It should be: (get emp1 'name)
>
> In my examples this works ok:
> : (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
> -> engineer
> : (get emp1 'category)
> -> engineer
>
> Also this works:
> : (with emp1
>  (prinl (: category)))
> engineer
> -> engineer
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
> 2018-06-10 16:14 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :
>
>>
>>
>> The first problem is that all your employees have no 'name property. (
>> get 'name emp1) -> NIL
>> But emp1 -> "Abel"
>>
>> But there is something else rotten. I can not spot. But try to get (with
>> 'emp1 (prinl (: name))) running first
>>
>> Regarding your 'This question:
>>  https://software-lab.de/doc/refT.html#This
>>
>>
>> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
>> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 2:20 nachm.
>> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
>> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
>> *Betreff:* Stuck at PLEAC example
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> I am now working on the "Arrays" section at "Find First Element that
>> passes a Test".
>>
>> Your example:
>>(with
>>   (find
>>  '((This) (== 'engineer (: category)))
>>  Employees )
>>   (prinl "Highest paid engineer is: " (: name))  )
>>
>> This won't work of course, so I created a few things:
>>: (setq emp1 "Abel" emp2 "Jones" emp3 "Millner" emp4 "Noles" emp5
>> "Zaphod")
>>-> "Zaphod"
>>
>>: (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
>>-> engineer
>>
>>: (put emp2 'category 'cook)
>>-> cook
>>
>>: (put emp3 'category 'teacher)
>>-> teacher
>>
>>: (put emp4 'category 'engineer)
>>-> engineer
>>
>>: (put emp5 'category 'vicar)
>>-> vicar
>>
>>: (setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
>>-> (emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5)
>>
>> I guessed that this list Employees would be OK to feed 'find';
>> however, from the ref docs of 'with' I do not grasp how I should get this
>> to work.
>>
>> Also, the function used by 'find' has a formal parameter named This. Is
>> this the PicoLisp special variable, or just a name for a formal parameter?
>>
>> Please give a complete example!
>>
>> What I experience now is exactly why I think that there should be more
>> and better approachable docs.
>>
>> I think the reference should either be expanded by more comprehensive
>> examples + explanations, or otherwise I'll try and do that later in the
>> Wiki where I started the new section (with now only the 'de' example).
>>
>> I feel you, because it is all "in your

Re: Stuck at PLEAC example

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Johann,

you are right!
In my reply to Alex I explicitly tell about that :)

Thx,
   Arie

2018-06-10 17:31 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :

> You are right. But that does not change the fact that your code will
> misbehave if you do not define a name.
> 2. You did not mentioned mention how it does misbehavior so i assumed.
>
> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:25 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> Hi Johann,
>
> I think that is not correct.
>
> In the first place I think I don't need a name property. Only the
> 'category!
>
> In the second place: (get 'name emp1) will ALWAYS return NIL, because the
> function call is incorrect.
> It should be: (get emp1 'name)
>
> In my examples this works ok:
> : (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
> -> engineer
> : (get emp1 'category)
> -> engineer
>
> Also this works:
> : (with emp1
>  (prinl (: category)))
> engineer
> -> engineer
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
> 2018-06-10 16:14 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :
>
>>
>>
>> The first problem is that all your employees have no 'name property. (
>> get 'name emp1) -> NIL
>> But emp1 -> "Abel"
>>
>> But there is something else rotten. I can not spot. But try to get (with
>> 'emp1 (prinl (: name))) running first
>>
>> Regarding your 'This question:
>>  https://software-lab.de/doc/refT.html#This
>>
>>
>> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
>> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 2:20 nachm.
>> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
>> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
>> *Betreff:* Stuck at PLEAC example
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> I am now working on the "Arrays" section at "Find First Element that
>> passes a Test".
>>
>> Your example:
>>(with
>>   (find
>>  '((This) (== 'engineer (: category)))
>>  Employees )
>>   (prinl "Highest paid engineer is: " (: name))  )
>>
>> This won't work of course, so I created a few things:
>>: (setq emp1 "Abel" emp2 "Jones" emp3 "Millner" emp4 "Noles" emp5
>> "Zaphod")
>>-> "Zaphod"
>>
>>: (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
>>-> engineer
>>
>>: (put emp2 'category 'cook)
>>-> cook
>>
>>: (put emp3 'category 'teacher)
>>-> teacher
>>
>>: (put emp4 'category 'engineer)
>>-> engineer
>>
>>: (put emp5 'category 'vicar)
>>-> vicar
>>
>>: (setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
>>-> (emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5)
>>
>> I guessed that this list Employees would be OK to feed 'find';
>> however, from the ref docs of 'with' I do not grasp how I should get this
>> to work.
>>
>> Also, the function used by 'find' has a formal parameter named This. Is
>> this the PicoLisp special variable, or just a name for a formal parameter?
>>
>> Please give a complete example!
>>
>> What I experience now is exactly why I think that there should be more
>> and better approachable docs.
>>
>> I think the reference should either be expanded by more comprehensive
>> examples + explanations, or otherwise I'll try and do that later in the
>> Wiki where I started the new section (with now only the 'de' example).
>>
>> I feel you, because it is all "in your head", but B2B a.k.a.
>> brain-2-brain is not yet possible, regrettably :)
>>
>> Seeing all this stuff i am convinced that PicoLisp also could have been
>> named YottaLisp, because of the sheer amount of possibilities hidden below
>> the surface :)
>>
>> Best,
>>Arie
>>
>
>

Re: Stuck at PLEAC example

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi again,

well, the master himself created the original example, so ...
Also, I assume that this comparisopn might be a little bit faster, because
more specific?

Thx,
   Arie

2018-06-10 17:33 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :

> Also while pointer equality '== might be fine in this case '= makes more
> sense to me
>
> *Von:* johtob...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:31 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> You are right. But that does not change the fact that your code will
> misbehave if you do not define a name.
> 2. You did not mentioned mention how it does misbehavior so i assumed.
>
> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 5:25 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Re: Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> Hi Johann,
>
> I think that is not correct.
>
> In the first place I think I don't need a name property. Only the
> 'category!
>
> In the second place: (get 'name emp1) will ALWAYS return NIL, because the
> function call is incorrect.
> It should be: (get emp1 'name)
>
> In my examples this works ok:
> : (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
> -> engineer
> : (get emp1 'category)
> -> engineer
>
> Also this works:
> : (with emp1
>  (prinl (: category)))
> engineer
> -> engineer
>
> Best,
>Arie
>
> 2018-06-10 16:14 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :
>
>>
>>
>> The first problem is that all your employees have no 'name property. (
>> get 'name emp1) -> NIL
>> But emp1 -> "Abel"
>>
>> But there is something else rotten. I can not spot. But try to get (with
>> 'emp1 (prinl (: name))) running first
>>
>> Regarding your 'This question:
>>  https://software-lab.de/doc/refT.html#This
>>
>>
>> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
>> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 2:20 nachm.
>> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
>> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
>> *Betreff:* Stuck at PLEAC example
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> I am now working on the "Arrays" section at "Find First Element that
>> passes a Test".
>>
>> Your example:
>>(with
>>   (find
>>  '((This) (== 'engineer (: category)))
>>  Employees )
>>   (prinl "Highest paid engineer is: " (: name))  )
>>
>> This won't work of course, so I created a few things:
>>: (setq emp1 "Abel" emp2 "Jones" emp3 "Millner" emp4 "Noles" emp5
>> "Zaphod")
>>-> "Zaphod"
>>
>>: (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
>>-> engineer
>>
>>: (put emp2 'category 'cook)
>>-> cook
>>
>>: (put emp3 'category 'teacher)
>>-> teacher
>>
>>: (put emp4 'category 'engineer)
>>-> engineer
>>
>>: (put emp5 'category 'vicar)
>>-> vicar
>>
>>: (setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
>>-> (emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5)
>>
>> I guessed that this list Employees would be OK to feed 'find';
>> however, from the ref docs of 'with' I do not grasp how I should get this
>> to work.
>>
>> Also, the function used by 'find' has a formal parameter named This. Is
>> this the PicoLisp special variable, or just a name for a formal parameter?
>>
>> Please give a complete example!
>>
>> What I experience now is exactly why I think that there should be more
>> and better approachable docs.
>>
>> I think the reference should either be expanded by more comprehensive
>> examples + explanations, or otherwise I'll try and do that later in the
>> Wiki where I started the new section (with now only the 'de' example).
>>
>> I feel you, because it is all "in your head", but B2B a.k.a.
>> brain-2-brain is not yet possible, regrettably :)
>>
>> Seeing all this stuff i am convinced that PicoLisp also could have been
>> named YottaLisp, because of the sheer amount of possibilities hidden below
>> the surface :)
>>
>> Best,
>>Arie
>>
>
>

Re: Stuck at PLEAC example

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,


> I would do it this way:
>
>(setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))

OK. You don't use the values as names, but the properties, because you'd
like to refer to (: name) in the 'prinl'.
Got it.

>(mapc put
>   Employees
>   '(name .)
>   '("Abel" "Jones" "Millner" "Noles" "Zaphod") )
>
>(mapc put
>   Employees
>   '(category .)
>   '(engineer cook teacher engineer vicar) )

Agreed. Much less elaborate.

>
>(mapc show Employees)

Nice and easy :)

>
>(with
>   (find
>  '((This) (== 'engineer (: category)))
>  Employees )
>   (prinl "Highest paid engineer is: " (: name))  )


M
aybe it would more appropriate to change "Highest paid engineer" to
"First engineer found"?

T
he
formal parameter
 
'This' boggled my mind for a few minutes, but then it made sense :)
Very nice trick indeed!

Thx,
   Arie

Re: Stuck at PLEAC example

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Johann,

I think that is not correct.

In the first place I think I don't need a name property. Only the 'category!

In the second place: (get 'name emp1) will ALWAYS return NIL, because the
function call is incorrect.
It should be: (get emp1 'name)

In my examples this works ok:
: (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
-> engineer
: (get emp1 'category)
-> engineer

Also this works:
: (with emp1
 (prinl (: category)))
engineer
-> engineer

Best,
   Arie

2018-06-10 16:14 GMT+02:00 Johann-Tobias Schäg :

>
>
> The first problem is that all your employees have no 'name property. ( get
> 'name emp1) -> NIL
> But emp1 -> "Abel"
>
> But there is something else rotten. I can not spot. But try to get (with
> 'emp1 (prinl (: name))) running first
>
> Regarding your 'This question:
>  https://software-lab.de/doc/refT.html#This
>
>
> *Von:* xapw...@gmail.com
> *Gesendet:* 10. Juni 2018 2:20 nachm.
> *An:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Antworten:* picolisp@software-lab.de
> *Betreff:* Stuck at PLEAC example
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> I am now working on the "Arrays" section at "Find First Element that
> passes a Test".
>
> Your example:
>(with
>   (find
>  '((This) (== 'engineer (: category)))
>  Employees )
>   (prinl "Highest paid engineer is: " (: name))  )
>
> This won't work of course, so I created a few things:
>: (setq emp1 "Abel" emp2 "Jones" emp3 "Millner" emp4 "Noles" emp5
> "Zaphod")
>-> "Zaphod"
>
>: (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
>-> engineer
>
>: (put emp2 'category 'cook)
>-> cook
>
>: (put emp3 'category 'teacher)
>-> teacher
>
>: (put emp4 'category 'engineer)
>-> engineer
>
>: (put emp5 'category 'vicar)
>-> vicar
>
>: (setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
>-> (emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5)
>
> I guessed that this list Employees would be OK to feed 'find';
> however, from the ref docs of 'with' I do not grasp how I should get this
> to work.
>
> Also, the function used by 'find' has a formal parameter named This. Is
> this the PicoLisp special variable, or just a name for a formal parameter?
>
> Please give a complete example!
>
> What I experience now is exactly why I think that there should be more and
> better approachable docs.
>
> I think the reference should either be expanded by more comprehensive
> examples + explanations, or otherwise I'll try and do that later in the
> Wiki where I started the new section (with now only the 'de' example).
>
> I feel you, because it is all "in your head", but B2B a.k.a. brain-2-brain
> is not yet possible, regrettably :)
>
> Seeing all this stuff i am convinced that PicoLisp also could have been
> named YottaLisp, because of the sheer amount of possibilities hidden below
> the surface :)
>
> Best,
>Arie
>

Stuck at PLEAC example

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

I am now working on the "Arrays" section at "Find First Element that passes
a Test".

Your example:
   (with
  (find
 '((This) (== 'engineer (: category)))
 Employees )
  (prinl "Highest paid engineer is: " (: name))  )

This won't work of course, so I created a few things:
   : (setq emp1 "Abel" emp2 "Jones" emp3 "Millner" emp4 "Noles" emp5
"Zaphod")
   -> "Zaphod"

   : (put emp1 'category 'engineer)
   -> engineer

   : (put emp2 'category 'cook)
   -> cook

   : (put emp3 'category 'teacher)
   -> teacher

   : (put emp4 'category 'engineer)
   -> engineer

   : (put emp5 'category 'vicar)
   -> vicar

   : (setq Employees '(emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5))
   -> (emp1 emp2 emp3 emp4 emp5)

I guessed that this list Employees would be OK to feed 'find';
however, from the ref docs of 'with' I do not grasp how I should get this
to work.

Also, the function used by 'find' has a formal parameter named This. Is
this the PicoLisp special variable, or just a name for a formal parameter?

Please give a complete example!

What I experience now is exactly why I think that there should be more and
better approachable docs.

I think the reference should either be expanded by more comprehensive
examples + explanations, or otherwise I'll try and do that later in the
Wiki where I started the new section (with now only the 'de' example).

I feel you, because it is all "in your head", but B2B a.k.a. brain-2-brain
is not yet possible, regrettably :)

Seeing all this stuff i am convinced that PicoLisp also could have been
named YottaLisp, because of the sheer amount of possibilities hidden below
the surface :)

Best,
   Arie

Re: Wiki progress

2018-06-10 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

I'll have a look first and will let know!

Thx,
   Arie

2018-06-10 7:15 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 07:04:44AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote:
> > In the DB GUI of the wiki (you get there after logging in, and going to
> "My
> > account"), there is a menu entry "Upload". Here you can upload another
> logo or
> > CSS file.
>
> Another, probably simpler and safer way, is if you send me a modified CSS
> file
> (starting from the current, latest, version), and I add it to the sources

Re: Wiki progress

2018-06-09 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Olaf,

thx!

Per accident I stumbled on the possibility of adding a per elemnt CSS
style, since it wasn't documented at that moment. I added that to the Wiki
doc here: https://picolisp.com/wiki/?help

Maybe there is a way to define classes etc. and use those.
I guess Alex would be the one knowing best, since he invented this Wiki :)

For now I have no problem with it and I can change things very fast.

@Alex Is there a way to do so?

TIA,
   Arie

2018-06-09 16:20 GMT+02:00 O.Hamann :

> Hi Arie,
>
> I do like your work on the documentation very much, no question.
>
> No doubt about the code content, if there sth would be wrong, everyone
> would notice it.
>
>
> But colors and font sizes are, besides look and feel, also a matter of
> individual visual capabilities,
>
> so it might be that one day (as the small picolisp community seems to be
> very faithful and gets older with the core :-)  )
>
> s.o. decides to change the coloring of the wiki pages or will let the
> reader change the font sizes themselves.
>
>
> Would there be a way to use css classes instead of styling each element
> individually?
>
> It would make work easier on both sides writing and changing.
>
> I don't know the wiki docs and if a css class syntax is provided and I'm
> very sorry that I did not look it up,
>
> but your progress in work adds so nicely page for page, that I thought I
> have to say it now,
>
> regardless that I do not have a solution or workaround to offer at the
> moment.
>
>
> Perhaps other reader of this list know, if there is already an easy way to
> express in wiki syntax what will result in sth like this  :
>
> 
>
> 
>
> to match the corresponding css (being defined in same html file or in
> extra css file):
>
> chaper-intro { background-color: LightCyan ; }
>
> example-title { color: MidnightBlue; font-family: "Arial Black";
> font-size: 20px; }
>
>
> Greetings, Olaf
>
>
>
>
> On 08.06.2018 15:59, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the last days I did a refresh of parts 1 .. 3 of PLEAC docs.
>>
>> At first I'd tried to get a nice reading experience by having lightblue
>> backgrounds for paragraph titles and yellow backgrounds per example.
>>
>> Having done it that way, in the I found the reading experience far from
>> pleasant.
>>
>> Also I noticed that the H1 .. H6 markup of the Wiki are either very big
>> and/or faint. So I only use one at the top of a page.
>>
>> I now did the following:
>> - use a self specified font (CSS) for headings (not too big)
>> - copy the paragraph numbers originally used
>> - display the "problem description" from the original book on
>>   a very faint color blue.
>>
>> Personally I think this is a great improvement. Now I can continue with
>> peace of heart with the rest of the PLEAC docs :)
>>
>> Hopefully this will make these docvs more accessible. Maybe it is an idea
>> if I use those headings on other pages as well? It seems less awkward than
>> those very big letters ...
>>
>> Best,
>>Arie
>>
>>
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Simulate EOF in terminal ...

2018-06-08 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

OK thx.

For some examples it isn't clear how they should be run.
They are not "ready to run" straight away.

Since I try to make the examples approachable, I strive to also give the
code (and/or data) to make such examples work.

In this case I guessed that the example could use STDIN. But I understand
your explanation.

Thx,
   Arie

2018-06-08 18:24 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > when (e.g.) executing this code in a terminal, which expects typed
> input, I
> > can't manage to simulate an EOF in the terminal:
> >
> > (until (eof)
> >(prinl (glue " " (flip (split (line) " " )
>
> This is not possible. Standard input cannot be closed, and then continued
> in the
> REPL. How would you type anything?
>
>
> > I know this should be possible (in Linux) by using ctrl+d.
> > However, this forces PicoLisp to a halt!
>
> Yes. Also in Unix does a ^D terminate the program (eg. 'cat').
>
> Note that Unix and also PicoLisp don't have a EOF *character* like DOS or
> Windows (^Z).
>
> Typing ^D on the command line in bash or PicoLisp or whatever is just just
> a
> convention, and handled in the way that standard input is closed.
>
>
> You need some convention how to stop the loop, eg.
>
>(while (line)
>   (prinl (glue ... @ ...)
>
> which will stop on an empty line.
>
> Or, you use some end-marker, like the PicoLisp 'here' function does (or
> bash
> "here" documents).
>
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Simulate EOF in terminal ...

2018-06-08 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

when (e.g.) executing this code in a terminal, which expects typed input, I
can't manage to simulate an EOF in the terminal:

(until (eof)
   (prinl (glue " " (flip (split (line) " " )

I know this should be possible (in Linux) by using ctrl+d.
However, this forces PicoLisp to a halt!

Since I am on Windows WSL I also tried it the Windows way by typing ctrl+z
but to no avail. Then also PicoLisp quits.

Any ideas?

TIA,
   Arie

Wiki progress

2018-06-08 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

the last days I did a refresh of parts 1 .. 3 of PLEAC docs.

At first I'd tried to get a nice reading experience by having lightblue
backgrounds for paragraph titles and yellow backgrounds per example.

Having done it that way, in the I found the reading experience far from
pleasant.

Also I noticed that the H1 .. H6 markup of the Wiki are either very big
and/or faint. So I only use one at the top of a page.

I now did the following:
- use a self specified font (CSS) for headings (not too big)
- copy the paragraph numbers originally used
- display the "problem description" from the original book on
  a very faint color blue.

Personally I think this is a great improvement. Now I can continue with
peace of heart with the rest of the PLEAC docs :)

Hopefully this will make these docvs more accessible. Maybe it is an idea
if I use those headings on other pages as well? It seems less awkward than
those very big letters ...

Best,
   Arie

Re: Another PLEAC question

2018-06-06 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

indeed.
For now I'll leave this one out and put it on a todo list.

Please have a look if the rest in that section is ok!

I  could get hold of a copy of the Perl Cookbook and saw there that there
are some useful extras for each problem. I'll add that in order to make the
whole thing friendlier.

Thx and best!
Arie

Op wo 6 jun. 2018 07:28 schreef Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > first I tried a GMail mail header, but that contains loads of extra
> stuff.
> > Then I copied a sample header from here
> > https://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Email_Headers#Sample_Header but using
> > that doesn't show any results.
>
> You are right. It seems the example matches only a very specific header,
> which
> unfortunately seems lost. Also, I cannot make sense of the original PLEAC
> site,
> e.g. what is the original task specification, and does it provide test
> data?
>
> Probably this solution needs to be rewritten. With a more general and
> complete
> parser like the one in misc/mailing for this mailing list.
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Another PLEAC question

2018-06-05 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

first I tried a GMail mail header, but that contains loads of extra stuff.
Then I copied a sample header from here
https://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Email_Headers#Sample_Header but using
that doesn't show any results.

Would you please check this out?
It would make this section complete.

Thx,
   Arie

2018-06-05 18:06 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Alex,
>
> > on page http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_picolisp/datesandtimes.html
> near
> > the end is the program 'hopdelta'.
> >
> > It seems there should be some input file called 'header'.
>
> Uh, I don't remember at all.
>
> Seems I did that in 2011, still have those sourcer. However I don't have
> that
> "header" file any more.
>
> It seems that this 'hopdelta' parses an e-mail header, right? So I think
> you can
> just take any e-mail, for example this one, extract the first few lines,
> and
> keep it in a file.
>
> Will that work?
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Another PLEAC question

2018-06-05 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

on page http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_picolisp/datesandtimes.html near
the end is the program 'hopdelta'.

It seems there should be some input file called 'header'.

Do you have that ready or can you specify what has to go in that file?

If that is done, the date and time part is ready now.

TIA,
   Arie

Re: Stuck on function 'expDat' on PLEAC

2018-06-05 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Oh dear!
Did not see that one coming ...

The issue here is that I haven't taken the time to study enough.

Blush :-(

Op di 5 jun. 2018 13:42 schreef Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > (at least under Windows WSL) the function 'expDat' does not seem to work
> as
> > expected.
> >
> > My results:
> >: (expDat "31")
> >-> NIL
>
> We have June with only 30 days ;)
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Stuck on function 'expDat' on PLEAC

2018-06-05 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

working on "Parsing Dates and Times from Strings" here
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_picolisp/datesandtimes.html I find that
(at least under Windows WSL) the function 'expDat' does not seem to work as
expected.

My results:
   : (expDat "31")
   -> NIL

Is this a Windows only issue?

Thx!
   Arie

Re: Wiki progress on PLEAC examples

2018-06-05 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Nice!
Thx.
Arie

2018-06-05 7:33 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > now the first 2 parts (Strings and Numbers) are complete.
> >
> > Here and there I had to change things a little and also to add a few
> > comments.
>
> Very nice, and well done! A huge piece of work. I think it looks all OK, I
> could
> not find any obvious mistake.
>
> This is becoming a really good tutorial now :)
>
> > Sometimes it totally wasn't obvious what kind of input a function
> expected
> > (at least for newcomers).
>
> Yes. So at least these examples may help future newcomers.
>
> Thanks!
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
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>

Wiki progress on PLEAC examples

2018-06-04 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

now the first 2 parts (Strings and Numbers) are complete.

Here and there I had to change things a little and also to add a few
comments.

Sometimes it totally wasn't obvious what kind of input a function expected
(at least for newcomers).

Please have a look and check if things are as you like it :)

Best,
   Arie

Re: Another question on PLEAC docs

2018-06-03 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Great!
Thx.


2018-06-03 17:23 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > It appears to be related to rounding.
> > Please explain or point me to the correct docs :)
>
> Please take a look at Rick Hanson's excellent explanation:
>
>https://the-m6.net/blog/fixed-point-arithmetic-in-picolisp.html
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Help needed on your soundex example

2018-06-03 Thread Arie van Wingerden

OK. The name might be a bit misleading :)
Added that to the example!


2018-06-03 17:19 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> On Sun, Jun 03, 2018 at 02:17:45PM +0200, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
> > It was a bit of a hassle to find a nice example, but I came up with this:
> > ...
> >: (let (InHostname (clip (in NIL (line T))) InHostnameSoundex
> (soundex InHostname))
> >   (println "InHostname:" InHostname " InHostnameSoundex:"
> InHostnameSoundex)
> >   (when (native "@" "getenv" 'S "NAME")
> > ...
> > Hope that is a sufficient example.
>
> Yes, good example.
>
> On the other hand, getenv() is built-in into PicoLisp already with the
> 'sys' function. Perhaps you can metion this if you like.
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
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>

Re: Help needed on your soundex example

2018-06-03 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

agreed.

It was a bit of a hassle to find a nice example, but I came up with this:

   # The following example calls the native Linux function 'getenv'
   # in order to fetch the hostname from it (env variable = NAME).
   # Then it reads user input (a guess for the hostname).
   # Then it shows if it is a Soundex match or not!

   : (let (InHostname (clip (in NIL (line T))) InHostnameSoundex (soundex
InHostname))
  (println "InHostname:" InHostname " InHostnameSoundex:"
InHostnameSoundex)
  (when (native "@" "getenv" 'S "NAME")
 (let (EnvHostname @ EnvHostnameSoundex (soundex EnvHostname))
(if (= InHostnameSoundex EnvHostnameSoundex)
   (println "MATCH!!!: EnvHostname:" EnvHostname
"EnvHostnameSoundex:" EnvHostnameSoundex)
   (println "NO MATCH: EnvHostname:" EnvHostname
"EnvHostnameSoundex:" EnvHostnameSoundex)
   hp-erie
   "InHostname:" "hp-erie" " InHostnameSoundex:" "H160"
   "MATCH!!!: EnvHostname:" "HP-Arie" "EnvHostnameSoundex:" "H160"
   -> "H160"

Hope that is a sufficient example.

Best
   Arie

2018-06-02 19:26 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > since I notice that getpwent seems to disbehave under Windows WSL I'll
> > leave the following out if you agree:
> >
> > (let (User (clip (in NIL (line T)))  Code (soundex User))
> >(while (native "@" "getpwent" '(S S I I S S S))  # 'native' only in
>
> I see. 'getpwent' is Unix-specific. On the other hand it is a pity to
> leave out
> an example just because it does not run on Windows. Perhaps you can invent
> another example for 'native'?
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

PicoLisp library docs

2018-06-02 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi,

in the PLEAC docs there are a few references to functions in separate
libraries.

Are those library functions referenced somewhere on the web?
With that I mean like this: https://software-lab.de/doc/ref.html#fun
I'd like to have links to those if possible.

If those reference do not exist, they maybe should be added I think.

And Alex should decide which should be on the Wiki and which others on his
own site.

Examples:
ext:snx

Another question on PLEAC docs

2018-06-02 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

the results of the functions below do not reflect the common outcomes in
math AFAICT.

But maybe you had other intentions?

E.G.:

: (deg2rad 90)
-> 2

Result 2 where I expected something like 1.5707963268.

Any ideas?

/Arie
Doing Trigonometry in Degrees, not Radians

#-(load "@lib/math.l")
(de deg2rad (Deg)
   (*/ Deg pi 180.0) )
(de rad2deg (Rad)
   (*/ Rad 180.0 pi) )#-

Re: Help needed on your soundex example

2018-06-02 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

since I notice that getpwent seems to disbehave under Windows WSL I'll
leave the following out if you agree:

(let (User (clip (in NIL (line T)))  Code (soundex User))
   (while (native "@" "getpwent" '(S S I I S S S))  # 'native' only in
64-bits  (let Lst @
 (when (or (= Code (soundex (car Lst))) (= Code (soundex (get Lst 5
(println Lst) ) ) ) )



2018-06-02 14:58 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > just started on the "Soundex Matching" example here:
> > http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_picolisp/strings.html
> >
> > It looks like a nice program, however, it doen't state what kind of input
> > it expects :)
>
> Typically personal names, but can be any string:
>
>: (soundex "Hello World")
>-> "H464"
>
>: (soundex "Miller")
>-> "M460"
>
>
> > I know about soundex, but my current knowledge of PicoLisp is not yet
> > advanced enough.
>
> Note that PicoLisp comes with its own soundex function, used in database
> applications. It uses a different algorithm however:
>
>: (ext:Snx "Hello World")
>-> "HLFRLT"
>
>: (ext:Snx "Miller")
>-> "MLR"
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Help needed on your soundex example

2018-06-02 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

ah, OK!!

Well, then this might be a better show off:

: (soundex "Smith")
-> "S530"
: (soundex "Smithe")
-> "S530"
: (soundex "Smyithe")
-> "S530"

because that shows what soundex is really about, don't you think?!

Also, the soundex algorith is really dependent on the language used.
E.g. in the Netherlands "phosphorus" and "fosforus" should have the same
soundex value, which (with this algorithm) is not true.

Best,
   Arie

2018-06-02 14:58 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > just started on the "Soundex Matching" example here:
> > http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_picolisp/strings.html
> >
> > It looks like a nice program, however, it doen't state what kind of input
> > it expects :)
>
> Typically personal names, but can be any string:
>
>: (soundex "Hello World")
>-> "H464"
>
>: (soundex "Miller")
>-> "M460"
>
>
> > I know about soundex, but my current knowledge of PicoLisp is not yet
> > advanced enough.
>
> Note that PicoLisp comes with its own soundex function, used in database
> applications. It uses a different algorithm however:
>
>: (ext:Snx "Hello World")
>-> "HLFRLT"
>
>: (ext:Snx "Miller")
>-> "MLR"
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Wiki progress update ...

2018-06-02 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

thx. for taking time to check!!!

I corrected those points you mention.

Thx. to you too :)

Because I now just try to do this stuff fast, I only have a bit of time to
look at functions in more detail.
I really am impressed by the many useful functions.

Also nice that strings and symbols are somewhat unified. This is unique in
the Lisp world I think?

Already noticed I have to thoroughly go through the "numbers", especially
for the "emulated" fixed point numbers.

Keep up the good work,
   Arie

2018-06-02 14:50 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > The first section of PLEAC (Strings) is now at about 76% ready.
> > ...
> > Some examples are rewritten a little, in order to make it easier for
> people
> > to just copy and paste the code to see what happens.
> >
> > I took great effort to verify each and every example.
>
> Pefect! Indeed a *lot* of work.
>
>
> > Also I added a reference to all used functions per example, so the user
> can
> > easily switch back and forth.
>
> A very good idea! This makes it very easy to follow the examples.
>
>
> > If anybody would be so kind to have a look and check if everything is OK
> > overall...?
>
> I found a few minor issues:
>
>— The first example of "Expanding and Compressing Tabs" says "Note that
> the
>  'line' function reads a line from STDIN". This is true here (i.e. in a
>  REPL), but for the general case I would recommend to write "... reads
> a
>  line from the current input channel".
>
>— In "Escaping Characters" the variable should be 'CharList' (upper
> case 'L')
>
> Many thanks!
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Help needed on your soundex example

2018-06-02 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alex,

just started on the "Soundex Matching" example here:
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_picolisp/strings.html

It looks like a nice program, however, it doen't state what kind of input
it expects :)

I know about soundex, but my current knowledge of PicoLisp is not yet
advanced enough.

Please give a few examples of valid input!

That way anybody trying the example understands what it is meant for ...

In a few other cases I also updated stuff a bit, to make it easier to
understand for newcomers as well.

TIA,
   Arie

Wiki progress update ...

2018-06-01 Thread Arie van Wingerden

The first section of PLEAC (Strings) is now at about 76% ready.

Some examples are rewritten a little, in order to make it easier for people
to just copy and paste the code to see what happens.

I took great effort to verify each and every example.

Also I added a reference to all used functions per example, so the user can
easily switch back and forth.

If anybody would be so kind to have a look and check if everything is OK
overall...?

Any input is welcome. But, beware that the Wiki markup is really simple (in
the spirit of PicoLisp itself) so, not everything is possible (I think?).

/Arie

Re: Wiki progress ...

2018-05-31 Thread Arie van Wingerden

OK. Now I understand it better.

Well, I'll go for incorporating the PLEAC docs first. At the moment I
already did about 45% of the 'strings'  part, so there is progress every
day :)

After that I'll start going over all the wiki pages available and see if I
can come up with a good, accessible and searchable
Wiki site.

Thx for the very good input!

Best
   Arie

Op do 31 mei 2018 17:09 schreef Alexander Williams :

> Arie,
>
> You should probably search for PicoLisp docs on the PicoLisp wiki before
> searching Google. There's already tons of links to my docs:
>
>   https://picolisp.com/wiki/?documentation
>   "PicoLisp Libraries - several PicoLisp libraries: unit..."
>
>   https://picolisp.com/wiki/?interfacing
>   "For extensive examples of 'native' libraries, have a look at..."
>
>   https://picolisp.com/wiki/?web
>   "These libraries should help you spin up any sort of application..."
>
> and now:
>
>   https://picolisp.com/wiki/?PCE
>
> My point is, there's too much duplicate content all over the docs! And
> you are adding more fuel to the fire. I have no problem with you wanting
> to improve the documentation, but please be aware that you're just
> adding to the confusion with this page.
>
>
> AW
>
> On 05/31/2018 11:44 AM, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
> > for now I added a link to your (very nice) stuff.
>
>

Re: Wiki progress ...

2018-05-31 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alexander,

for now I added a link to your (very nice) stuff.
Be assured that I intend to change stuff for the better :)

Thx,
   Arie

2018-05-31 13:21 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden :

> Hi Alexander,
>
> you are right :-)
> Because I just dived in to help and also reorder stuff, I had to start
> somewhere.
>
> I intend to e.g. remove the link to PLEAC when its separate pages on the
> Wiki are complete.
>
> As I hadn't encountered your page yet, I just didn't know.
> I just fast searched Google for useful links and missed yours!
>
> If you'd agree we could incorporate your stuff in the Wiki, in order to
> have it central.
> I am happy to put it on the Wiki in a consistent style and refer to you of
> course.
>
> In the past I've seen, mostly personal, websites, having very good
> content, vanish some day and with that all the useful stuff vanishes.
> Since the Wiki is backed by Alex, I guess thart is the safest place to
> have it all.
>
> Please let me know!
>
> Your suggestion about the off topic links is noted and will be taken care
> off.
>
> Apart from this all I'd like to rework the Wiki a bit, after having
> incorporated a lot of stuff.
> Currently I have issues finding what I'd like on it.
>
> Also, please forgive my ignorance. I'm really new to PicoLisp and have to
> learn a lot.
>
> Best
>Arie
>
> 2018-05-31 2:34 GMT+02:00 Alexander Williams :
>
>> I'm also not sure why there's a link to Alexander Burger's twitter, the
>> t-shirt, and "Hire a guru" on that page. What does that even have to do
>> with "Documentation" and "Examples" ?
>>
>> Perhaps I can suggest moving those links to the home page, and moving
>> all external "documentation" links to that page (i.e: removing the
>> "Other resources" and "Repositories" from the Documentation page)... in
>> any case, the docs are quite confusing now with this additional section,
>> so I think it would be nice to have things a bit more organized.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> AW
>>
>> On 05/27/2018 03:03 PM, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > started to put all PLEAC examples in the Wiki, inorder to preserve the
>> > material in case PLEAC vanishes sometime, because it is not updated
>> often
>> > anymore. You could say that is was substituted in some way by the famous
>> > "Rosetta Code".
>> >
>> > Since this it quite a bit of work, I started with the first part and
>> > already put a chuck online.
>> >
>> > Everything will be linked from this page:
>> >https://picolisp.com/wiki/?PCE
>> >
>> > As you can see I did a few things different than on PLEAC:
>> > 1. added clickable links to involved reference docs
>> > 2. checked if every example still works in latest PicoLisp version
>> >
>> > Please correct me if I made mistakes :)
>> >
>> > Best
>> >Arie
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: Wiki progress ...

2018-05-31 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Alexander,

you are right :-)
Because I just dived in to help and also reorder stuff, I had to start
somewhere.

I intend to e.g. remove the link to PLEAC when its separate pages on the
Wiki are complete.

As I hadn't encountered your page yet, I just didn't know.
I just fast searched Google for useful links and missed yours!

If you'd agree we could incorporate your stuff in the Wiki, in order to
have it central.
I am happy to put it on the Wiki in a consistent style and refer to you of
course.

In the past I've seen, mostly personal, websites, having very good content,
vanish some day and with that all the useful stuff vanishes.
Since the Wiki is backed by Alex, I guess thart is the safest place to have
it all.

Please let me know!

Your suggestion about the off topic links is noted and will be taken care
off.

Apart from this all I'd like to rework the Wiki a bit, after having
incorporated a lot of stuff.
Currently I have issues finding what I'd like on it.

Also, please forgive my ignorance. I'm really new to PicoLisp and have to
learn a lot.

Best
   Arie

2018-05-31 2:34 GMT+02:00 Alexander Williams :

> I'm also not sure why there's a link to Alexander Burger's twitter, the
> t-shirt, and "Hire a guru" on that page. What does that even have to do
> with "Documentation" and "Examples" ?
>
> Perhaps I can suggest moving those links to the home page, and moving
> all external "documentation" links to that page (i.e: removing the
> "Other resources" and "Repositories" from the Documentation page)... in
> any case, the docs are quite confusing now with this additional section,
> so I think it would be nice to have things a bit more organized.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> AW
>
> On 05/27/2018 03:03 PM, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > started to put all PLEAC examples in the Wiki, inorder to preserve the
> > material in case PLEAC vanishes sometime, because it is not updated often
> > anymore. You could say that is was substituted in some way by the famous
> > "Rosetta Code".
> >
> > Since this it quite a bit of work, I started with the first part and
> > already put a chuck online.
> >
> > Everything will be linked from this page:
> >https://picolisp.com/wiki/?PCE
> >
> > As you can see I did a few things different than on PLEAC:
> > 1. added clickable links to involved reference docs
> > 2. checked if every example still works in latest PicoLisp version
> >
> > Please correct me if I made mistakes :)
> >
> > Best
> >Arie
> >
>
>

Re: Wiki change - 'de' function 'done'

2018-05-29 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Thx. Andreas!

Op ma 28 mei 2018 22:29 schreef :

> Naming Conventions: https://software-lab.de/doc/ref.html#conv
>
> /beneroth
>
> Am 2018-05-28 16:54, schrieb Arie van Wingerden:
> > Hi Olaf,
> >
> >> I do like your https://picolisp.com/wiki/?pcedefunction [1] wiki
> >> page very much!
> >
> > Thx. You're welcome :)
> >
> >> For me, it does show the subtleties of the topic in a very clear and
> >> comprehensible way (even reproducible).
> >
> > Nice. Reproducability is a thing I really want. Examples that don't
> > work straight away are often useless.
> >
> >> Just to distinguish 'x' from 'x' (see *1 below), would you mind, if
> >> I would replace all 'x' function names by 'foo' on your fine
> >> article?
> >
> > Of course. I even missed the duplication of 'x'. I'll go for foo,
> > baar, baz etc.
> >
> >> And just to follow the picolisp convention, to uppercase the
> >> function Parameter Variables?
> >
> > Didn't know the convention, but will change that :)
> >
> >> Second, a comment concerning the conclusion:
> >> 'very uninteresting function' ... it looks like, that these words
> >> are spoken by 'the master' :-) himself,
> >> but may be in some context, which is not seen within this quotation.
> >> (Otherwise I would miss a lot of ratings for other functions in the
> >> docs :-)  ).
> >
> > Alex quoted that in a response. He later weakened the word
> > "uninteresting" a bit.
> > I kept it, because it was funny somehow.
> > But, point taken. I just removed it!
> >
> >> Sth. like 'de is equivalent to'  followed by the setq examples would
> >> sound less judgmental and the decision what to use is left to the
> >> reader/user.
> >
> > OK.
> >
> >> By the way, I did not try, because always used 'de' instead of
> >> 'setq' for function definitions,
> >> but may be 'setq' in combination with the different function
> >> parameter possibilities (see *2 below) becomes less
> >> readable/distinguishable?
> >
> > I've now added a "final notice" on the difference between 'normal'
> > functions and 'fexprs'.
> >
> >> I really enjoy reading your article, as it summarizes in a clear,
> >> comprehensible way all the little facts and differences, which make
> >> picolisp so unique.
> >> Thank you very much!
> >
> > Thx. again. I intend to continue.
> > Currently I am busy consolidating stuff from other websites in the
> > Wiki (e.g. PLEAC).
> > After that I hope to continue the other (new) stuff.
> >
> > As I did change things now, please check the page for errors left
> > over!
> >
> > Thx. for the 'to the point' critique. I highly value that. It really
> > is a way to learn!
> >
> > /Arie
> >
> > Links:
> > --
> > [1] https://picolisp.com/wiki/?pcedefunction
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

Re: Wiki change - 'de' function 'done'

2018-05-28 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi Olaf,



> I do like your https://picolisp.com/wiki/?pcedefunction wiki page very
> much!
>

Thx. You're welcome :)

>
> For me, it does show the subtleties of the topic in a very clear and
> comprehensible way (even reproducible).
>

Nice. Reproducability is a thing I really want. Examples that don't work
straight away are often useless.

>
> Just to distinguish 'x' from 'x' (see *1 below), would you mind, if I
> would replace all 'x' function names by 'foo' on your fine article?
>

Of course. I even missed the duplication of 'x'. I'll go for foo, baar,
baz etc.


> And just to follow the picolisp convention, to uppercase the function
> Parameter Variables?
>

Didn't know the convention, but will change that :)

Second, a comment concerning the conclusion:
> 'very uninteresting function' ... it looks like, that these words are
> spoken by 'the master' :-) himself,
> but may be in some context, which is not seen within this quotation.
> (Otherwise I would miss a lot of ratings for other functions in the docs
> :-)  ).
>

Alex quoted that in a response. He later weakened the word
"uninteresting" a bit.
I kept it, because it was funny somehow.
But, point taken. I just removed it!

>
> Sth. like 'de is equivalent to'  followed by the setq examples would sound
> less judgmental and the decision what to use is left to the reader/user.
>

OK.


> By the way, I did not try, because always used 'de' instead of 'setq' for
> function definitions,
> but may be 'setq' in combination with the different function parameter
> possibilities (see *2 below) becomes less readable/distinguishable?
>

I've now added a "final notice" on the difference between 'normal'
functions and 'fexprs'.

>
> I really enjoy reading your article, as it summarizes in a clear,
> comprehensible way all the little facts and differences, which make
> picolisp so unique.
> Thank you very much!
>

Thx. again. I intend to continue.
Currently I am busy consolidating stuff from other websites in the Wiki
(e.g. PLEAC).
After that I hope to continue the other (new) stuff.

As I did change things now, please check the page for errors left over!

Thx. for the 'to the point' critique. I highly value that. It really is a
way to learn!

/Arie

Wiki progress ...

2018-05-27 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

started to put all PLEAC examples in the Wiki, inorder to preserve the
material in case PLEAC vanishes sometime, because it is not updated often
anymore. You could say that is was substituted in some way by the famous
"Rosetta Code".

Since this it quite a bit of work, I started with the first part and
already put a chuck online.

Everything will be linked from this page:
   https://picolisp.com/wiki/?PCE

As you can see I did a few things different than on PLEAC:
1. added clickable links to involved reference docs
2. checked if every example still works in latest PicoLisp version

Please correct me if I made mistakes :)

Best
   Arie

Wiki change - 'de' function 'done'

2018-05-26 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Hi all,

as earlier announced, I'll try to add stuff that could be useful to others,
but at least for me is a way to learn PicoLisp along the way.

TL;DR;

The few last days I got used to the Wiki syntax Alex created. Being at this
point I find it a very easy to use Wiki, that breathes the same minimalism
as PicoLisp. I like that very much! Currently my joy about the yellow lines
is huge :)

On this page https://picolisp.com/wiki/?Documentation I now have a link
called "A collection of PicoLisp examples", which points to:
https://picolisp.com/wiki/?PCE, where an overview of all examples will be
placed.

So far I've done a bit on the 'de' function. I am am grateful to Alex for
helping and correcting me. I'll try to only put the "truth" online :)

Since things aren't going very fast, it would be nice if you all take a
look evry now and then and give comments, or just update/correct the stuff
I did.

Another thing which I will put on the overview page is some links to other
PicoLisp pages that (I suppose) are lesser known). I might even try to
contact the creators of such pages and ask them to transfer such stuff to
the PicoLisp Wiki in order to assure continuity and easiness to find it.

Thx. to all!
   Arie

Re: Understanding spacing in Wiki edit

2018-05-26 Thread Arie van Wingerden

Updated the doc.

See how nice and clear the yellow is ;-))

https://picolisp.com/wiki/?pce-de-function

2018-05-26 13:41 GMT+02:00 Arie van Wingerden <xapw...@gmail.com>:

> OK :)
>
> 2018-05-26 13:21 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger <a...@software-lab.de>:
>
>> Hi Arie,
>>
>> > checked the source and *did* find one thing missing :-)
>> >
>> > > ("$"  # CSS style
>> > >  ( (cons 'style (till "^I^J^M}" T))
>> > > (char)
>> > > (recurse T) ) )
>>
>> Haha, perfect! I did not remember, sorry! :)
>>
>>
>> > This was what I saw being used here:
>> > https://picolisp.com/wiki/?documentation
>> >
>> > ${text-align: center;
>> > >2{PicoLisp Documentation}}
>>
>> Indeed
>>
>> > Which is not present on this page:
>> > https://picolisp.com/wiki/?help
>> >
>> > I really think this is a very important piece of markup ;-)
>> >
>> > If you'd like, I'll add it, but maybe you'd like to do it, to keep that
>> doc
>> > consistent!
>>
>> Very good! You are welcome to do it of course :)
>>
>> ♪♫ Alex
>>
>> --
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>>
>
>

Re: Understanding spacing in Wiki edit

2018-05-26 Thread Arie van Wingerden

OK :)

2018-05-26 13:21 GMT+02:00 Alexander Burger :

> Hi Arie,
>
> > checked the source and *did* find one thing missing :-)
> >
> > > ("$"  # CSS style
> > >  ( (cons 'style (till "^I^J^M}" T))
> > > (char)
> > > (recurse T) ) )
>
> Haha, perfect! I did not remember, sorry! :)
>
>
> > This was what I saw being used here:
> > https://picolisp.com/wiki/?documentation
> >
> > ${text-align: center;
> > >2{PicoLisp Documentation}}
>
> Indeed
>
> > Which is not present on this page:
> > https://picolisp.com/wiki/?help
> >
> > I really think this is a very important piece of markup ;-)
> >
> > If you'd like, I'll add it, but maybe you'd like to do it, to keep that
> doc
> > consistent!
>
> Very good! You are welcome to do it of course :)
>
> ♪♫ Alex
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>

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