Re: Bye from forks sends signals?

[Terry Palfrey]

Dmitry Non

Move to real time with the IRC channel:

https://picolisp-explored.com/how-to-join-the-picolisp-community

https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/2024-01-10

On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 at 19:14, Dmitry Non  wrote:

> Hey.
>
> That's awesome. Thank you very much, Alex!
>
> > On 6 Jan 2024, at 06:48, Alexander Burger 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dmitry,
> >
> >> Is this newsletter alive?:)
> >
> > Yes, just not so noisy :)
> >
> >
> >> I'm playing around with `native` and ZeroMQ and found a curious
> behaviour.
> >>
> >>(unless (fork)
> >>  (wait 2000)
> >>  (bye))
> >>
> >>(setq Context (native "libzmq.so" "zmq_ctx_new" 'P))
> >>(setq ZMQ_REP 4)
> >>(setq Socket (native "libzmq.so" "zmq_socket" 'P Context ZMQ_REP))
> >>(native "libzmq.so" "zmq_bind" 'I Socket "tcp://*:")
> >>
> >>(buf
> >> Buffer 10
> >> (prinl "Waiting for messages")
> >> (when (= -1 (native "libzmq.so" "zmq_recv" 'I Socket Buffer 10 0))
> >>   (prinl (pack "Error: " (errno)
> >
> > This looks good.
> >
> >
> >> The `errno` is 4 (which is signal interrupt as i understand).
> >
> > Yes. EINTR is 4 on most systems. You can see it with
> >
> >   : (sysdefs "errno")
> >   -> EACCES
> >   : EINTR
> >   -> 4
> >
> > or (vi "@lib/sysdefs").
> >
> >
> >> My assumption here is that `bye` throws some signal? Why else would it
> affect
> >> zeromq in the parent process?
> >> Actually, while writing this I found out about SIGCHLD which is
> apparently
> >> sent to parent on child's exit so I guess zmq_recv gets interrupted by
> that
> >> for some reason?
> >
> > Absolutely correct. The child sends a SIGCHLD signal, which must be
> handled or
> > ignored.
> >
> > I don't have libzmq at the moment and cannot test it, but I think it
> should be
> > something like
> >
> >   (while (lt0 (native "libzmq.so" "zmq_recv" 'I Socket Buffer 10 0))
> >  (unless (== EINTR (errno))
> > (quit (errno) "Signal") ) )
> >
> >
> >> P.S. completely offtopic but since I'm here. I just noticed that
> semicolons
> >> aren't treated as comments. Why?
> >
> > Comments in PicoLisp are # or #{...}#.
> >
> >
> >> Can it be enabled? Otherwise my Emacs' lisp-mode comment/uncomment
> function is
> >> useless and no comment highlight either.
> >
> > There is no built-in way to change it. There are some Emacs libs for
> PicoLisp,
> > but I don't use Emacs and cannot be helpful here.
> >
> > ☺/ A!ex
> >
> > --
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>
>
> --
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>

Re: New blog - "PicoLisp for beginners"

[Terry Palfrey]

Mia, hi

I am one of those lurkers who follow picolisp because picolisp.

I also follow Qi/Shen and newLISP.

I really like rosettacode.org as a cross translation site for many
languages.

I'd like to see a newlisponrockets.com type project or see what picolisp
has done. Solve for a one button web site.

Also, sharing this because that's what I do share:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGUCcjHTmGY=664s

I look forward to your blog posts.

Terry



On Wed, 1 Sept 2021 at 03:34, Mia Burger  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm Mia, one of Alex' daughters, nice to meet you!
>
> I started to play around with PicoLisp a few months ago. So I checked
> the available resources, and after a while I thought it might be good to
> have a little bit more "beginner's level" content, with a low threshold
> and fun to read. Because I feel that a lot of it is already quite
> advanced (or of rather mixed difficulty), which can be quite frustrating.
>
> So we started to put up a blog together. Today I have posted the first
> article, and there will be one post per day for the next few weeks. If
> you're interested, feel free to follow!
>
> - This is the blog homepage: https://picolisp-blog.hashnode.dev/
>
> - And here is the repository with some ideas for structure and content:
> https://gitlab.com/picolisp-blog/structure
>
> I'm always happy about feedback or further inputs - for example, I think
> it would be really nice to feature some community projects, like Nehal's
> mind maps. Always open for your ideas! Also, please let me know if
> something requires further explanation or maybe is even wrong.
>
>
> Wish you a nice rest of the week!
>
> Best regards, Mia
>
>
> PS. Also I have to apologize, obviously most of the content is not
> originally from me but from the community. Sometimes I even copied
> complete sentences if I liked them. Hope that was ok!
>
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subjectUnsubscribe
>

Re: Enumerated Trees in PicoLisp

[Terry Palfrey]

I was already primed by Scott Adams biology experiment.

Being an accelerationist and convergentist.



On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 02:45, Alexander Burger  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> PicoLisp has a really cool new function!
>
> It is called 'enum', because it "enumerates" arbitrary Lisp values. That
> is, it
> associates values with numbers, by storing them in a binary tree structure.
>
> The cool points are:
>
> 1. The numeric keys themselves are not stored. They are implicit. This
> saves
>half of the space: Only one and a half cell on the average are needed
> per
>entry.
>
> 2. It allows to emulate (possibly sparse) arrays with acceptable overhead

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Re: Future of PicoLisp?

[Terry Palfrey]

Anyone ever tried the newLISPonRockets.com install? I don't know if
that will give you ideas for a one touch install.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:10 AM, František Fuka  wrote:

> I think that "adding PPA repository to my system" is not much easier than
> "downloading Picolisp source and compiling it". You and I can do both.
> Unskilled users will struggle with both. We need a method for unskilled
> users that allows them just to download a file, click something, maybe type
> a line or two --- and have a fully working Picolisp installation as a
> result. The question of self-updating installed Picolisp (the advantage PPA
> has over self-compiling) is not relevant for theses users, IMHO.
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 6:54 PM, Bruno Franco  > wrote:
>
>> As for ubuntu, maybe you could make a Personal Package Archive (PPA). Its
>> lets you make your own packages that can be downloaded by users using
>> apt-get. Its as easy as downloading the normal packages, but the user must
>> manually add the repository.
>>
>> Here's a useful link:
>> http://askubuntu.com/questions/71510/how-do-i-create-a-ppa
>>
>> It would be more work than having the ubuntu team providing the package
>> in the official repositories, and I think you would have to make a new
>> package for every version of ubuntu you want to support. But its also the
>> only way to make sure that users get the most recent version of the
>> software. As Edgaras said, ubuntu is bad at keeping up with the newest
>> releases.
>>
>> I'm personally ok with compiling picolisp myself. But I know I wouldn't
>> have tried it if it had not been available as a package from ubuntu.
>>
>> As Dean said, if there's anything we can do, let us know.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Alexander Burger 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dean,
>>>
>>> > Assuming that Wine packages are more numerous than Picolisps...you
>>> could do
>>> > a native Windows version in Powerbasic for Wine. Not only would this up
>>>
>>> Well, but then we can go as well with ErsatzLisp, the Java version of
>>> PicoLisp.
>>>
>>> A full PicoLisp doesn't yet run on Windows, as PicoLisp needs a POSIX
>>> runtime
>>> environment. Might be possible in the future with Joe's midipix port.
>>>
>>>
>>> > I smiled when I saw your reasons for moving from C to asm because
>>> > Powerbasic does ALIGN etc in it's stride without needing to drop down
>>> to
>>> > it's industrial strength built in assembler.
>>>
>>> Aligning is not so much a problem. But can you control the stack layout,
>>> condition codes (carry flag etc.) and multiple function entry points in
>>> Powerbasic? Or do natice calls to external C functions in a completely
>>> dynamic
>>> way. All this is not even possible in C.
>>>
>>>
>>> > I'd prefer to work in 64 bit asm but would be very happy to assist you
>>> in
>>> > any way I can to see Picolisp do well as I'm sure others would be.
>>> Whatever
>>> > you decide just let us know how we can help. I'm very new to Picolisp
>>> but
>>> > can already see that it's much too good not to do well.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback! Let's see what happens. For Ubuntu 17.04 it is
>>> probably
>>> too late by now.
>>>
>>> ♪♫ Alex
>>> --
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *-- Frantisek Fuka*
> (yes, that IS my real name)
>
> -- My Personal homepage: www.fuxoft.cz
> -- My Google+ profile: google.com/+fuxoft
> -- My Telegram chat: telegram.fuxoft.cz
>
>
>

Re: PicoLisp Book

[Terry Palfrey]

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.dewrote:


 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 02:25:53PM +0200, Thorsten Jolitz wrote:



  I think 'PicoLisp Works' would work pretty well as a title ...



 Yes, a nice title indeed.


The original call for papers went like this from Thorsten:

PicoLisp Bible - Call for Papers
I'm on my way to publish (in cooperation with Alex) a 'PicoLisp Bible'
with (almost) everything written about PicoLisp collected and organized
in one single book. I will be the editor (and author of a few articles
from the wiki), most of the articles will be (of course) from Alex, but
e.g. Henrik gave the permission to include his tutorial series on
ProDevTips too.

Every article will be published under the name of its author, I'm only
the editor who merges everything together. It should be more or less a
non-profit project, the (likely) costs will be paid for by me, the
(unlikely) profits will reimburse me for all the work to put the book
together.

So, if you have anything PicoLisp related in your mind you always wanted
to write an article or essay about - now would be the perfect time.
Maybe you have written a library and want for explain its use, or you
can describe an interesting practical use case, or maybe your IDE/Editor
setup for PicoLisp. There are so many interesting aspects about PicoLisp
that would be worth to document.

The idea is that you write your articles in the 'articles and essays'
section of the PicoLisp wiki, from where it is easy to download them as
tex files (to be merged into the book).

So this is a CALL FOR PAPERS for the 'PicoLisp Bible', the deadline would
be (more or less) the 1st of September, please let me (us) know if you
are interested and planning to contribute something.

Once that goal has been achieved ie, assembly, then I think it would be
logical to
move forward and build on that. Having continuing scaling goals seems
appropriate.

I'm thinking ahead some more and wanting some sort of directed introduction
for PicoLisp
different from the Radical Approach paper that has served so well up til
now. I'm  thinking
more generic and marketing/sale's pitchy.  Sorry, I butcher english on a
daily basis. I keep
a lot of idea files and snippets about and offer this one for idea
generation:

http://pastebin.ca/2173683

If this is going to hit two volumes, why not plan for 3? What is the
audience, could a
high school programming class adopt this as a guide to programming? How
about a
CS prof doing a unit on scripting languages? Third volume a workbook? Ya,
all this
sounds like a lot of work but if you build a 15 to 30 minute a day habit to
look for
material, write an example, create a GUI element or graphic table (x) four
to seven people
at the end of 6 months...

Another discussion I am listening in on right now is about Shen which is
an outgrowth of
Qi II where they are on about making a new book, Qi II has a book available
at:

http://www.fast-print.net/bookshop/277/functional-programming-in-qi-2nd-ed

The actual discussion that parallels this one is pasted here for your
convenience:

http://pastebin.ca/2173697


Hope this provides some fodder for the final decisions on the book.

Terry

Re: PicoLisp Book

[Terry Palfrey]

On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Thorsten Jolitz tjol...@googlemail.comwrote:

Terry Palfrey terrypalfrey...@gmail.com writes:

  I was thinking of some sort of graphic to imply works like a
  waterworks or something that was

 Cover design is definitely a topic where I would love to get input from
 the community, since I'm not a designer.


I was thinking of a hopper feed for ideas and code coming out in bundles or
something clever like that.


 It seems the name of the book has more or less converged to PicoLisp
 Works, so the cover design should be based on that name.


It's so appropriate.


 Your graphic looks really nice - I like it, thanks. I hope there are no
 copyright on any of the parts?


I bought this package and rendered the image and then modified it in
paint.net.

Re: PicoLisp Book

[Terry Palfrey]

On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Thorsten Jolitz tjol...@googlemail.comwrote:

Laurent Artaud laurent.art...@free.fr writes:

  Le 21/07/2012 20:05, Thorsten Jolitz a écrit :



  Terry Palfrey terrypalfrey...@gmail.com writes:

  BTW
  I just found out that there is an upper limit for book size (at
  Amazon some 870 pages or so) in self-publishing, so if I include the
  function reference (some 200 pages) and the rosettacode examples (huge),
  what I really would like to do, there might be no other choice than
  making it two books (i.e. there might be two different covers ;)

  I fear that the price tag for a book this size would be outside of
  what I would pay for.



  I would suggest that you consider PDF or ePub: it would both remove
  the maximum size limit and reduce your publication costs.

 With the 2 volume solution, Vol.1 with all the docs, references and
 articles would probably have some 330 to 350 pages, and might be still
 affordable. Vol. 2 with the function reference and the rosettacode
 examples might be twice as big. I think ebooks are often included in
 self-publishing offers.


Adding limitations where none exist is not a good practise.

There are many people who wish to have and to hold a print version of a
book.
They will pay for their preference or not.

A PDF and a ePub and any other electronic version is not mutually exclusive

Fwd: finding the schwerpunkt

[Terry Palfrey]

A discussion being had elsewhere that might interest some input from this
group.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Mark Tarver dr.mtar...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:24 AM
Subject: finding the schwerpunkt
To: Qilang qil...@googlegroups.com


The 'schwerpunkt' is a German word taken from blitzkrieg warfare; it
means 'concentration point'.  It refers to the policy of concentrating
your forces at one decisive point and achieving breakthrough.  It is
opposed to the 'penny packet' doctrine of distributing your forces
thinly and evenly and being strong nowhere. Schwerpunkt allowed
numerically weaker German forces to achieve victory for several years.
Rommel taught the British the schwerpunkt lesson in the desert.

In the next stage of Shen we need to focus clearly on a schwerpunkt.
If we do not, then the very strength of Shen, the ability to coexist
on many platforms, will turn out to be a weakness and our limited but
highly professional force will bleed along a thousand mile front
grappling the various ins and outs of various platforms.

The schwerpunkt must be an application for which Shen is ideally
suited; one where its unique strengths will make it difficult to mount
any effective opposition to our advance and which we can develop
quickly.  It must be an application that will attract people to use it
and in using it, draw them deeper into using Shen and hence
programming in it.

The schwerpunkt I have in mind is a program editor of a different
kind; in which programs are type checked and parsed in real time (i.e.
as they are entered) and the system allows plugins for various formal
languages to be loaded in.  The application is ideal for Shen because
an area to which Shen is totally suited is as a **metalanguage for
describing other computer languages**; the programmable type system
and the inbuilt compiler-compiler select for this ability.  You will
find that I have raised this project in this group in the past. You
can see the potential in my example on LA;
http://www.lambdassociates.org/studies/study02.htm.

The structure of this editor would reflect something of the structure
of my proof assistant in chapter 15 of TBoS.  Essentially there are
four components.

 1.  An area of text entry which can sustain the usual cut and paste.
 2.  A command line where expressions are evaluated relative to the
document.
 3.  An area where (type/syntax) error messages are displayed.
 4.  A conventional Shen REPL in which programs and plugins to the
editor can be loaded.

The question of license came up and I conferred with some of the
sponsors of my work.  This is why I have delayed till now, formally
fixing this schwerpunkt.  We've agreed that the main program should be
appear under either a BSD or Shen style license (maybe the former
first and then as we evolve standards, the latter) but that we allow
proprietary or closed-source plug-ins like software for microprocessor
verification to be used in the editor by people who need to make money
(which is all of us of course).

I do not want to base this on top of Emacs; not only because we should
steer clear of the GPL, but also because I do not want to be bound by
design decisions I don't like.  I'm not an Emacs fan.  I believe we
can do better than that 30 year old design.

On blitzkrieg warfare, Wikipedia says of the Wehrmacht

Rather than receiving an explicit order, a commander would be told of
his superior's intent and the role which his unit was to fill in this
concept. The exact method of execution was then a matter for the low-
level commander to determine as best fit the situation. 

This is the attitude I'd like because there are people in this group
who have a better on-the-ground sense of detail than I do.  I'd like
people to go away and figure out how best we can make this happen, and
what is the best platform for the job. My view is that we should go
for JS if possible, but we need to find a way of escaping the REPL and
allowing people to save their work.

Mark

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interesting observations about bugs

[Terry Palfrey]

http://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-stack-exchange-podcast/id279215411

Re: Inferior processes and access to foreign libraries

[Terry Palfrey]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.dewrote:

Hi Thorsten,


 If you like, you might join the #picolisp IRC channel. Gives more
 interactive feedback. And, it looks we are in the same time zone :)

 irc.freenode.net /join #picolisp

I highly recommend it Thorsten.

Re: Pico Lisp and Emacs Lisp

[Terry Palfrey]

Did someone just suggest:

All this would make sense if there was a picolisp-based-editor, and even if
that were the case,
 it's not a good idea to mass-rip stuff from emacs (since emacs is full of
contradictions and
different criteria)


 By the way, these kind of discussions are better in IRC (#
 picol...@irc.freenode.net)

 - Arm


Yes.

I'm learning a lot from them.

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[Terry Palfrey]

Please add me to the mailing list. Thanks.

Terry