Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation
Thank you Lindsay! Since there seems to be some interest in a tutorial and some more examples, I will try to write something suitable and adapt the programs mentioned in the presentation to serve as examples. Might take some time, but I will do my best! Mattias On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:56:47AM -0700, Lindsay Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for sharing the presentation. Nice insights and a reminder of the > 'full-stack' functionality available in picolisp. > I would be very interested to hear more detail around how you built out the > gui. > > -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation
Hi Rick, Thanks! I think this point is important and sadly forgotten in the IT world of today. We focus a lot in the next speedy machines and gigantic storage capabilities about to arrive, but we forget our own capacity. Maybe the current interest in AI and machine learning is people trying to create a new machine that could help us make sense of the first machine, when this first machine has now grown beyond ourselves? Mattias r...@tamos.net skrev: (26 september 2018 04:39:07 CEST) >“Money” bullet: > >“Yes, computers can store and handle almost unlimited amounts of code >today. But what about you?” -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation
Thanks for sharing the presentation. Nice insights and a reminder of the 'full-stack' functionality available in picolisp. I've mostly utilized it on the 'server-side'. I would be very interested to hear more detail around how you built out the gui. /Lindsay On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 1:27 AM Mattias Sundblad wrote: > > Hi Joe, > > > I also really enjoyed the presentation. Thank you for sharing! > > Thank you very much! > > > I'd be interested in hearing more about the django vs picolisp > development > > experience. > > My experience is that Django requires more work to set up. There are more > things > to handle and you work more with the framework and less with the actual > problem, > in my view. > > Django is ok as far as traditional frameworks go, and it does provide > quite a > lot of functionality out of the box. As long as you stay within those > boundaries, you can get a lot done in a short time. However, once you need > to > step outside this box things get complicated. Most projects tend to reach > for > third party components in these cases, and end up with a very large > application > containing even larger parts which you do not have very much control over. > > We have many examples of web applications at work that are now composed of > obsolete components, framework versions, etc. I am responsible for > creating some > of them. While it was possible for our small team to build them quickly in > the > first place, we have sadly been unable to maintain them, and it is now in a > state where a re-write is probably the best way forward. In a way, the > framework > has made it possible for us to outrun ourselves, our capabilites. It has > moved > us to a place where we are no longer in control. In contrast, Picolisp > seems to > let you go as far forward as you are ready to handle at any given point in > time. > > I have not used Flask much, but it seems to be a bit more minimalist > compared to > Django? > > Another point worth mentioning is the differences in learning experiences. > While > using Django, I mostly learned Django and not that much else. I became a > developer who could only work within those confines. Picolisp on the other > hand, > was harder to get started with, but working with Pil has made me a much > better > programmer. It constantly challenges me in a good way and makes me learn > things. > The demo app provided with the distribution has been an invaluable help in > getting started, together with Regenaxer and this community as a whole of > course! > > This is my experience and my take on the matter. Naturally, it could of > course > be because I was an extraordinarily poor Django developer. However, I was > still > able to create several systems using the technology. > > Picolisp gives you ownership of the applications in a much better way, I > think. > You write the code you need and you own it afterwards, being able to > change it, > re-write it or even delete it, depending on the needs of your clients and > users. > It removes that sinking feeling I get when thinking about updating the old, > outdated, applications written in "traditional" technologies. ;) > > > > love to hear how picolisp compared. Did you use the stock picolisp gui > > library? > > The first version did use the stock Picolisp gui, but the current version > has a > different look. This was mostly achieved through the use of a custom CSS, > only > very small changes were made to the Lisp code itself. Would this be an > interesting subject to write a tutorial around? > > Best regards, > > Mattias > > -- > UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe >
Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation
Hi Joe, > I also really enjoyed the presentation. Thank you for sharing! Thank you very much! > I'd be interested in hearing more about the django vs picolisp development > experience. My experience is that Django requires more work to set up. There are more things to handle and you work more with the framework and less with the actual problem, in my view. Django is ok as far as traditional frameworks go, and it does provide quite a lot of functionality out of the box. As long as you stay within those boundaries, you can get a lot done in a short time. However, once you need to step outside this box things get complicated. Most projects tend to reach for third party components in these cases, and end up with a very large application containing even larger parts which you do not have very much control over. We have many examples of web applications at work that are now composed of obsolete components, framework versions, etc. I am responsible for creating some of them. While it was possible for our small team to build them quickly in the first place, we have sadly been unable to maintain them, and it is now in a state where a re-write is probably the best way forward. In a way, the framework has made it possible for us to outrun ourselves, our capabilites. It has moved us to a place where we are no longer in control. In contrast, Picolisp seems to let you go as far forward as you are ready to handle at any given point in time. I have not used Flask much, but it seems to be a bit more minimalist compared to Django? Another point worth mentioning is the differences in learning experiences. While using Django, I mostly learned Django and not that much else. I became a developer who could only work within those confines. Picolisp on the other hand, was harder to get started with, but working with Pil has made me a much better programmer. It constantly challenges me in a good way and makes me learn things. The demo app provided with the distribution has been an invaluable help in getting started, together with Regenaxer and this community as a whole of course! This is my experience and my take on the matter. Naturally, it could of course be because I was an extraordinarily poor Django developer. However, I was still able to create several systems using the technology. Picolisp gives you ownership of the applications in a much better way, I think. You write the code you need and you own it afterwards, being able to change it, re-write it or even delete it, depending on the needs of your clients and users. It removes that sinking feeling I get when thinking about updating the old, outdated, applications written in "traditional" technologies. ;) > love to hear how picolisp compared. Did you use the stock picolisp gui > library? The first version did use the stock Picolisp gui, but the current version has a different look. This was mostly achieved through the use of a custom CSS, only very small changes were made to the Lisp code itself. Would this be an interesting subject to write a tutorial around? Best regards, Mattias -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 12:57:00 +0200 Mattias Sundblad wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I recently held some presentations about Picolisp, minimalism and > software development. The slides and notes are available on the wiki > at > https://picolisp.com/wiki/?simplicityandminimalisminsoftwaredevelopment > > The presentation does not go into great technical depth about > Picolisp, the focus is more on the benefits of working this way. I > hope you enjoy it! > > Best regards, > > Mattias > An excellent write-up! Thanks for sharing! / Johan -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation
I enjoyed it a lot. Thanks. You should write a nice tutorial based on the app you mentioned in the talk. ;) On Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 7:05 AM Mattias Sundblad wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I recently held some presentations about Picolisp, minimalism and > software development. The slides and notes are available on the wiki at > https://picolisp.com/wiki/?simplicityandminimalisminsoftwaredevelopment > > The presentation does not go into great technical depth about Picolisp, > the focus is more on the benefits of working this way. I hope you enjoy > it! > > Best regards, > > Mattias > > -- > UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe >
