Re: picoWiki

2008-10-21 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
Hi Konrad,

 I think Picowiki could use a title index. As somthing that is
 automatically generated

there has been a page called All but the link was down at the bottom.
I moved it to the top menu now.

Thank you,

Tomas
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-13 Thread Alexander Burger
Hi Randall,

 I think that the original author of picolisp may be concerned that he  
 gives up the documentation, and is left in one or two years with a mess.  

No problem at all! I'm happy for any third party documentation,
providing for possibly different and additional views (as, for example,
Henrik's publications on prodevtips).

Cheers,
- Alex
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-13 Thread konrad Zielinski
Hi,

After some consideration I agree that supplementing the core docs is
better then replacing them.

If I could make a feature suggestion. It would be handy if there was a
shortcut syntax for linking to the definition of terms in the core
documentation (much as the lisp tag currently does). so that we
didn't have to type the entire address every time. possibly {ref set}
to refer to the refS.html#set in the core documentation.

regards

Konrad.

2008/10/14 Tomas Hlavaty [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi Randall,

 In my experience, a Wiki is only truly successful if there are very
 clear rules, styles, and usually someone with a heavy hand to
 enforce that.

 Would you have any suggestions what those rules and styles should be?

 A simple solution would be, just duplicate the documentation in the

 I am not sure whether it is a good idea completely replacing the
 documentation Alex created and maintains.  Alex will probably not give
 that up anyway?  However, the existing documentation is a good start,
 e.g. http://logand.com/picoWiki/classes then can be filled with
 comments, examples, observations, ideas etc. like I started with
 http://logand.com/picoWiki/+Blob

 It would be good to address things that are not covered by his
 documentation, are out of scope for the core picolisp package, link to
 other people's blogs or software or elaborate where we feel more
 information is necessary for people not enough familiar with picolisp
 (like me;-).  Alex's documentation can be incorporated in the forms of
 links like for example in the lisp markup and maybe integrated with
 the search function.

 Wiki, make it better and better and make sure it is well supported.

 This would be an ideal to aim for:-)

 Cheers,

 Tomas
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-13 Thread konrad Zielinski
Hi All,

Yes I see it now \ref{set} does what I want.

In regards to the todo. I would strongly advocate picking one markup
style and sticking to it, rather than mixing Tex and HTML markup.

In general I would lean towards Tex style markup, as it tends to be
more concise.

As far as I can see most wiki's have steered away from using HTML
markup. I'm not exactly sure why this is. Though I suspect it may have
somthing to do with conciseness, and reducing barriers to
non-programmers.

Depending on how things are implemented there may be security issues
as well. such as injecting malicious html into a wiki that will simply
display whatever is given.

regs

Konrad.

2008/10/14 konrad Zielinski [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi,

 After some consideration I agree that supplementing the core docs is
 better then replacing them.

 If I could make a feature suggestion. It would be handy if there was a
 shortcut syntax for linking to the definition of terms in the core
 documentation (much as the lisp tag currently does). so that we
 didn't have to type the entire address every time. possibly {ref set}
 to refer to the refS.html#set in the core documentation.

 regards

 Konrad.

 2008/10/14 Tomas Hlavaty [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi Randall,

 In my experience, a Wiki is only truly successful if there are very
 clear rules, styles, and usually someone with a heavy hand to
 enforce that.

 Would you have any suggestions what those rules and styles should be?

 A simple solution would be, just duplicate the documentation in the

 I am not sure whether it is a good idea completely replacing the
 documentation Alex created and maintains.  Alex will probably not give
 that up anyway?  However, the existing documentation is a good start,
 e.g. http://logand.com/picoWiki/classes then can be filled with
 comments, examples, observations, ideas etc. like I started with
 http://logand.com/picoWiki/+Blob

 It would be good to address things that are not covered by his
 documentation, are out of scope for the core picolisp package, link to
 other people's blogs or software or elaborate where we feel more
 information is necessary for people not enough familiar with picolisp
 (like me;-).  Alex's documentation can be incorporated in the forms of
 links like for example in the lisp markup and maybe integrated with
 the search function.

 Wiki, make it better and better and make sure it is well supported.

 This would be an ideal to aim for:-)

 Cheers,

 Tomas
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-13 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
Hi Konrad,

 If I could make a feature suggestion. It would be handy if there was a
 shortcut syntax for linking to the definition of terms in the core
 documentation (much as the lisp tag currently does). so that we
 didn't have to type the entire address every time. possibly {ref set}
 to refer to the refS.html#set in the core documentation.

done.  See http://logand.com/picoWiki/Sandbox for an example:
e.g. \{ref:set}.

Cheers,

Tomas
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-13 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
Hi Konrad,

 Yes I see it now \ref{set} does what I want.

sorry for the confusion, the syntax is actually \{ref:set} which fits
well with the existing \{http: way of handling links.  You were too
quick and discovered my experiment before I settled on a solution;-)

 In regards to the todo. I would strongly advocate picking one markup
 style and sticking to it, rather than mixing Tex and HTML markup.
 In general I would lean towards Tex style markup, as it tends to be
 more concise.

I welcome any suggestions on this.  I prefer the TeX style markup for
most things but not sure about things like tables, pre, lisp and
maybe lists...  When things get big, it gets easier to miss } and the
hmtl style markup is more explicit and reliable?

 As far as I can see most wiki's have steered away from using HTML
 markup. I'm not exactly sure why this is. Though I suspect it may
 have somthing to do with conciseness, and reducing barriers to
 non-programmers.

Yes, but that is more difficult to implement as there is lots of
special arbitrary cases to handle suddenly.  I would rather stick with
the picoLisp tradition and keep it simple.  When somebody works with
picoLisp, a bit of markup cannot be too difficult:-)

 Depending on how things are implemented there may be security issues
 as well. such as injecting malicious html into a wiki that will simply
 display whatever is given.

picoWiki does not output the markup directly.  It is parsed first and
only if it understood, then it is interpreted and output.  I don't
think there is a danger of injecting something, or at least should not
if I escape all i/o correctly.

Cheers,

Tomas
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Re: picoWiki on CVS ?

2008-10-13 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
Hi Eugene,

 I hope this isn't too naive   but couldn't the picoWiki on a CVS
 and thus be resync'd as desired???

I use RCS for picoWiki versioning (which is kind of single file
pre-CVS).  It works well with the way wiki manages files and versions.

I am not sure what you mean by resync'd but for read-only purposes it
should be enough to either 'wget' it; get the text files and run local
picoWiki server; or generate html snapshot.  For editing, it is
easiest to get an internet access;-)

Cheers,

Tomas
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-12 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
 I will have to implement some picoWiki markup for html anchor for
 this.

Anchors is a bad idea actually.  It does not go well with the wiki
style links and page management.  Also, using anchors leads to long
documents which are pain to edit in a wiki.  Every topic worth
referencing should have its own page.

 i.e. create a page classes, list there classes similar to the
 reference for functions and refer markup there.

I created http://logand.com/picoWiki/classes page with list of
classes.  I started documenting a few,
e.g. http://logand.com/picoWiki/+Blob so feel free to add more stuff
if you feel other could benefit from your knowledge.

Cheers,

Tomas
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-10 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
Hi Henrik,

 I could help with implementing the code highlighting I have on
 prodevtips, it's all happening in the client through javascript, very
 easy actually, you simply need the ability to add html in the content,
 if the necessary javascript files are included then you can do:

 code=classpico
 /code

 And all pico lisp code in the code block will be highlighted.

nice, I did not notice the syntax highliting feature though as I have
javascript turned off.

Syntax highlighting is nice but I think the links to picolisp
reference manual are the most important part of the lisp markup.
That's the main power of the web I think, not having to look things up
but simply click on them... instant information.

If you fancy doing this in picoLisp (that's the thing we are after
here anyway;-), there are a few things that could be improved in the
current lisp tag in picoWiki:

1) highlight class names and link them to a reference explanation.  As
there is no single reference place similar to built in functions,
maybe create a picoWiki reference for classes and link it there,
i.e. create a page classes, list there classes similar to the
reference for functions and refer markup there.  (I will have to
implement some picoWiki markup for html anchor for this.)

2) highlight strings and persistent symbols

3) cute parenthesis highliting as in lisp paste would be nice, see
http://paste.lisp.org/display/68251 for example

4) the content of the lisp element can start with prompt, e.g. 

  : (setq lambda quote)
  - 67293272

the : and - are currently linked to the picolisp reference which
should not be the case.

I attach the file which generates the picolisp xref/highliting.  To
use it:

: (load '@lib/http.l)
- http404
: (load '@lib/xhtml.l)
- reset
: (load /tmp/markupLisp.l)
- markupLisp
: (markupLisp (setq lambda quote))
(a href=http://www.software-lab.de/refS.html#setq;setq/a lambda a 
href=http://www.software-lab.de/refQ.html#quote;quote/a)- T
: 

The markupLisp function gets a string and outputs html.

I hope to post the whole picoWiki code at some point when it's more
complete and the mess cleaned up bit:-)

Cheers,

Tomas

(setq *Xref
   (mapcar pack '(new  sym  str  char  name  sp?  pat?  fun?  all  intern  
extern    loc  box?  str?  ext?  touch  zap  length  size  format  chop  
pack  glue  pad  align  center  text  wrap  pre?  sub?  low?  upp?  lowc  uppc  
fold  val  getd  set  setq  def  de  dm  recur  undef  redef  daemon  patch  
xchg  on  off  onOff  zero  one  default  expr  subr  let  let?  use  accu  
push  push1  pop  cut  del  queue  fifo  idx  lup  cache  locale  dirname 
put get prop ; =: : :: putl getl wipe meta 
atom pair lst? num? sym? flg? sp? pat? fun? box? str? ext? bool not == n== 
=  =0 =T n0 nT  =  = match 
+ - * / % */ ** inc dec  lt0 ge0 gt0 abs bit?  | x| sqrt seed rand max 
min length size accu format pad oct hex fmt64 money 
car cdr caar cadr cdar cddr caaar caadr cadar caddr cdaar cdadr cddar cdddr 
cadddr cr nth con cons conc circ rot list need full make made chain link 
yoke copy mix append delete delq replace insert remove place strip split 
reverse flip trim clip head tail stem fin last member memq mmeq sect diff index 
offset assoc asoq rank sort uniq group length size val set xchg push push1 pop 
cut queue fifo idx balance get fill apply 
load args next arg rest pass quote as pid lit eval run macro curry def de 
dm recur recurse undef box new type isa method meth send try super extra with 
bind job let let? use and or nand nor xor bool not nil t prog prog1 prog2 if 
if2 ifn when unless cond nond case state while until loop do at for catch throw 
finally ! e $ sys call tick ipid opid kill quit task fork pipe later timeout 
bye 
apply pass maps map mapc maplist mapcar mapcon mapcan filter seek find pick 
cnt sum maxi mini fish by 
path in ipid out opid pipe ctl any sym str load hear tell key poll peek 
char skip eol eof from till line format scl read print println printsp prin 
prinl msg space beep tab flush rewind rd pr wr rpc wait sync echo info file dir 
lines open close port listen accept host connect nagle udp rc pretty pp show 
view here prEval mail 
*Class class dm rel var var: new type isa method meth send try object 
extend super extra with This 
pool journal id seq lieu lock begin commit rollback mark free dbck rel dbs 
dbs+ db: fmt64 tree root fetch store count leaf minKey maxKey genKey useKey 
init step scan iter prune zapTree chkTree db aux collect 
be goal prove - unify ? 
pretty pp show loc debug vi ld trace lint lintAll fmt64 
argv opt gc raw alarm protect heap env up stk date time usec stamp dat$ 
$dat datSym datStr strDat expDat day week ultimo tim$ $tim telStr expTel locale 
allowed allow pwd cd chdir ctty info dir dirname call tick kill quit task fork 
pipe timeout mail test bye 
NIL *OS *DB T *Solo *PPid *Pid @ @@ @@@ This *Dbg *Zap *Scl *Class *Dbs 
*Run *Hup *Sig1 *Sig2 ^ *Err *Rst *Msg *Uni *Led 

Re: picoWiki

2008-10-09 Thread Alexander Burger
Hi Tomas,

 class=i href=?ChangesChanges/a, w3m will interpret it as
 http://logand.com/?Changes. It works in Firefox though, i.e. it opens
 http://logand.com/picoWiki?Changes page as intended.

Just tried with both w3m and firefox, and both seem to work well :-)

Cheers,
- Alex
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-09 Thread konrad Zielinski
Yes, Wiki's can be quite useful.

Getting a copy of the standard reference documentation on there would
be useful. Then we could all work on expanind it a little as the
current desciptions are quite terse in places.

Granted the fact that we have readable documentation at all is a great
boon, and a credit to the author, way too many projects out there
don't have docs worth spitting at, let alone reading.

A Cookbook of how to solve various task would probably be the next
step. At the moment my mode of operation seems to be:

 1) try to do X
 2) get stuck
 3) Ask Alex
 4) Get a response with code which is remarkably consise and uses
functions I ether didn't know existed or had completly forgotten
about.

There seems to be a lot of cool and consise ways of doing things once
you join the dots of which sets of functions to use together : )

I certainly would consult a wiki, and do my best to contribute where
the occation arose.

P.S. how did you do the syntax highligting for lisp code? It's a
rather nice feature.

regards

Konrad.

On 09/10/2008, Alexander Burger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Tomas,

 class=i href=?ChangesChanges/a, w3m will interpret it as
 http://logand.com/?Changes. It works in Firefox though, i.e. it opens
 http://logand.com/picoWiki?Changes page as intended.

 Just tried with both w3m and firefox, and both seem to work well :-)

 Cheers,
 - Alex
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-08 Thread Alexander Burger
Hi Tomas,

 I am implementing a wiki in picoLisp, see http://logand.com/picoWiki

Good idea! However, I did not succeed to connect (yet?).


 Do you think it would be useful for the picoLisp comunity (can we call
 it that way yet?)

Hehe, perhaps better call it a com-mini-ty ;-)

Cheers,
- Alex
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-08 Thread Alexander Burger
 http://logand.com/picoWiki

Ah, now it works! Seems I just had a temporary network problem.

Cheers,
- Alex
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Re: picoWiki

2008-10-08 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
Hi Alex,

 Good idea! However, I did not succeed to connect (yet?).

I just tried with w3m, looks like w3m messes up the relative links,
e.g. if I am at http://logand.com/picoWiki and have a relative link a
class=i href=?ChangesChanges/a, w3m will interpret it as
http://logand.com/?Changes. It works in Firefox though, i.e. it opens
http://logand.com/picoWiki?Changes page as intended.

I'll think how to do the links better.

Thanks,

Tomas
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