Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[Markus Koschany]

Am 05.05.2016 um 22:59 schrieb Mykola Nikishov:
> Markus Koschany  writes:
> 
>> The new build system Tycho is completely different and is now Maven
>> based. It must be packaged first. Several modules must be updated as
>> well.
> 
> Strictly speaking, Eclipse Tycho is just a set of Maven plug-ins and
> (just a wild guess) not that hard to package.
> 
> The much bigger problem is p2 repositories that Tycho uses to download
> dependencies from. These dependencies are OSGi bundles and should be
> packaged first, right?

You will have to package all build-dependencies as separate Debian
packages if they are not already available. Downloading dependencies at
build time from untrusted repositories is not allowed in Debian.

Markus




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Re: Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[Mykola Nikishov]

Markus Koschany  writes:

> The new build system Tycho is completely different and is now Maven
> based. It must be packaged first. Several modules must be updated as
> well.

Strictly speaking, Eclipse Tycho is just a set of Maven plug-ins and
(just a wild guess) not that hard to package.

The much bigger problem is p2 repositories that Tycho uses to download
dependencies from. These dependencies are OSGi bundles and should be
packaged first, right?

--
Mykola Nikishov
https://manandbytes.github.io/


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Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[Peter Spiess-Knafl]

Hi!


On 04/29/2016 07:55 PM, Markus Koschany wrote:
> 
> No worries. Valid questions won't offend me but I couldn't resist to do
> some straight talking here.

Ok, good.


> If you aren't scared yet, read on...
> 

No, not at all

> Luca Vercelli worked on Tycho before but he just wanted to get the
> package into Debian and didn't really want to maintain it. You could
> search for "debian java list tycho" to find some correspondence on our
> mailing list.
> 
> e.g.
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2016/01/msg00015.html
> 
> 
> He also uploaded an unfinished package of Tycho to mentors.debian.net.
> It is not perfect but a first start.
> 
> https://mentors.debian.net/package/tycho
> 
> If we want to get Eclipse 4.x into Stretch, Tycho should be the first
> goal. After that we should focus on updating src:eclipse and after that
> all other plugins/modules but those are rather optional depending on how
> many people intend to help.
> 
> My advise is to copy Fedora's approach in packaging Eclipse and Tycho or
> at least to learn from them.
> 
> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/tycho.git/
> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/eclipse.git/
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Eclipse
> 
> We should find a way to make packaging Eclipse plugins and the base IDE
> much simpler in the long run.

Thanks for all the info, that is a very good starting point.

I have only been related to native library packaging and haven't done
Java packaging yet but the documentation I found so far seems great. So
this might take me a while to get on track.


> If you have questions, or would like to request reviews and sponsorship,
> please feel free to ask on debian-j...@list.debian.org or on IRC at
> irc.debian.org, #debian-java.

I will, thank you.

Greetings
Peter



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Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[Markus Koschany]

Am 29.04.2016 um 18:47 schrieb Peter Spiess-Knafl:
> Hi Markus!
> 
> On 04/29/2016 04:34 PM, Markus Koschany wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the answer is pretty simple. Someone needs to do the work because
>> Eclipse won't package itself. 
> 
> I did not mean to offend anybody, just wanted to know if its just lack
> of time or if there are other already known problems for not packaging it.

No worries. Valid questions won't offend me but I couldn't resist to do
some straight talking here.

>> A lot of time has passed between the
>> current version in Debian and the most recent version. The new build
>> system Tycho is completely different and is now Maven based. It must be
>> packaged first. Several modules must be updated as well. And most
>> importantly Eclipse must be maintained for the future. It's not about
>> getting a new version into Debian and then you can stop working on it
>> and everything will be fine. That's a constant process of repeating tasks.
>>
> 
> Of course, its not solely packaging and than you are fine but currently
> that would be the first required action I guess.

First of all, thanks for your interest in Eclipse. You're right that
packaging a newer release is the first step. However you're not the
first one who tried it and many people underestimate the importance or
difference between packaging something and maintaining it. Maintaining
is a recurring activity and by packaging something you automatically
opt-in for keeping a package in good shape, not forever, but at least
for the foreseeable future. Otherwise you would simply shift the
responsibility to another team member and that's not fair in my opinion.
We are not looking for the fire-and-forget maintainer but for someone
who responds to bug reports, fixes bugs in his packages, forwards
patches upstream etc. Then it is completely fine if you only want to
maintain one or two packages and you are here at the right place.


>> In my opinion it should be obvious that Eclipse needs help. So an RFH
>> bug won't change much. 
> 
> Maybe not, but it will certainly not do any harm and maybe draw
> attention to more developers, maintainers or people who might want to help.

Granted, it won't hurt and I wouldn't object if somebody filed one. In
my opinion RFH bug reports are often not very useful. People who really
care about a package get involved with the packaging anyway, or they
send patches, contact us on IRC or the mailing list. Those guys are
promising because they show autonomy. RFH bugs often attract people who
have never done any packaging work before. I definitely would want that
those people get more involved with Debian but they should show at least
some will to overcome obstacles. People who need too much hand-holding
will quickly give up when they face something unexpected or complicated
and Eclipse is one of the most complex pieces of Java software in the
universe.

If you aren't scared yet, read on...


>> Eclipse requires at least one dedicated
>> maintainer but the more the merrier. So if you want to help us
>> to_maintain_ the packages, be more than welcome. I would help you to get
>> the packages into Debian.
>>
> 
> That is good to know. So currently nobody is working on it? I saw you
> made some commits on an experimental branch regarding 4.5.1.
> 
> I will take a deeper look and try to check which steps are required to
> make an upgrade possible.
> 
> You already mentioned packaging the new build-system (tycho). That seems
> a logical step to start with.
> 
> If any of the current maintainers could provide additional information
> to whats required, I would appreciate it very much.

Luca Vercelli worked on Tycho before but he just wanted to get the
package into Debian and didn't really want to maintain it. You could
search for "debian java list tycho" to find some correspondence on our
mailing list.

e.g.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2016/01/msg00015.html


He also uploaded an unfinished package of Tycho to mentors.debian.net.
It is not perfect but a first start.

https://mentors.debian.net/package/tycho

If we want to get Eclipse 4.x into Stretch, Tycho should be the first
goal. After that we should focus on updating src:eclipse and after that
all other plugins/modules but those are rather optional depending on how
many people intend to help.

My advise is to copy Fedora's approach in packaging Eclipse and Tycho or
at least to learn from them.

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/tycho.git/
http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/eclipse.git/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Eclipse

We should find a way to make packaging Eclipse plugins and the base IDE
much simpler in the long run.

If you have questions, or would like to request reviews and sponsorship,
please feel free to ask on debian-j...@list.debian.org or on IRC at
irc.debian.org, #debian-java.

Cheers,

Markus





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Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[Peter Spiess-Knafl]

Hi Markus!

On 04/29/2016 04:34 PM, Markus Koschany wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> the answer is pretty simple. Someone needs to do the work because
> Eclipse won't package itself. 

I did not mean to offend anybody, just wanted to know if its just lack
of time or if there are other already known problems for not packaging it.

> A lot of time has passed between the
> current version in Debian and the most recent version. The new build
> system Tycho is completely different and is now Maven based. It must be
> packaged first. Several modules must be updated as well. And most
> importantly Eclipse must be maintained for the future. It's not about
> getting a new version into Debian and then you can stop working on it
> and everything will be fine. That's a constant process of repeating tasks.
>

Of course, its not solely packaging and than you are fine but currently
that would be the first required action I guess.


> In my opinion it should be obvious that Eclipse needs help. So an RFH
> bug won't change much. 

Maybe not, but it will certainly not do any harm and maybe draw
attention to more developers, maintainers or people who might want to help.

> Eclipse requires at least one dedicated
> maintainer but the more the merrier. So if you want to help us
> to_maintain_ the packages, be more than welcome. I would help you to get
> the packages into Debian.
> 

That is good to know. So currently nobody is working on it? I saw you
made some commits on an experimental branch regarding 4.5.1.

I will take a deeper look and try to check which steps are required to
make an upgrade possible.

You already mentioned packaging the new build-system (tycho). That seems
a logical step to start with.

If any of the current maintainers could provide additional information
to whats required, I would appreciate it very much.


> Regards,
> 
> Markus
> 

Thanks for your reply.

Greetings
Peter



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Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[Markus Koschany]

Am 29.04.2016 um 16:12 schrieb Peter Spiess-Knafl:
> Hi!
> 
> I would also like to know what is exactly the problem that prevents
> upgrading to a more recent version of Eclipse?
> 
> I think it would be really worth putting effort into getting the latest
> version (or at least a more recent version form 4.x) of eclipse into the
> next release of Debian.
> 
> I could not find an RFH bug for Eclipse but I think one should be filed,
> because the current version, even in unstable, is almost four years old.
> 
> Greetings
> Peter

Hi,

the answer is pretty simple. Someone needs to do the work because
Eclipse won't package itself. A lot of time has passed between the
current version in Debian and the most recent version. The new build
system Tycho is completely different and is now Maven based. It must be
packaged first. Several modules must be updated as well. And most
importantly Eclipse must be maintained for the future. It's not about
getting a new version into Debian and then you can stop working on it
and everything will be fine. That's a constant process of repeating tasks.

In my opinion it should be obvious that Eclipse needs help. So an RFH
bug won't change much. Eclipse requires at least one dedicated
maintainer but the more the merrier. So if you want to help us
to_maintain_ the packages, be more than welcome. I would help you to get
the packages into Debian.

Regards,

Markus



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Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[Peter Spiess-Knafl]

Hi!

I would also like to know what is exactly the problem that prevents
upgrading to a more recent version of Eclipse?

I think it would be really worth putting effort into getting the latest
version (or at least a more recent version form 4.x) of eclipse into the
next release of Debian.

I could not find an RFH bug for Eclipse but I think one should be filed,
because the current version, even in unstable, is almost four years old.

Greetings
Peter

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Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[tony mancill]

On 07/06/2014 12:28 AM, Adrien Grellier wrote:
 Hi, 
 
 In my laboratory, we are using Debian as the official Linux distribution and 
 Eclipse as the official EDI. So I would like to know if there is any hope to 
 have the 4.* series in Debian before the freeze ? Or will we stay with the 
 3.* series ?
 
 The freeze start on september, so there is only 2 month to make it… 
 
 Thanks for your work,
 
 Regards,

Hello Adrien,

It's nice to hear that your laboratory is using to Debian, and I wish I
could state otherwise, however, I think it's very unlikely that we will
have Eclipse 4.x packages ready for the jessie release.  That said, I
would be happy to be proven wrong.

I haven't looked at the challenges of packaging Eclipse 4 directly, but
suspect that it's a large undertaking.  It's primarily a question of
having sufficient volunteer developers to go around.

I didn't want your question to go without an answer.

Regards,
tony



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Bug#681726: eclipse: Upgrade Eclipse to Juno 4.2

[Matt Wittmann]

Package: eclipse
Version: 3.8.0~rc4-1
Severity: wishlist

Dear Maintainer,

With the Juno simultaneous release of Eclipse, the 3.x series has been
deprecated in favor of 4.x. According to the press release entitled Eclipse
Juno Release Train Has Arrived:

Eclipse 4.2 in now the mainstream platform for the Eclipse community. The
existing Eclipse 3.x code stream is being put into maintenance mode. Eclipse
4.2 includes a compatibility layer that allows existing Eclipse plugins and RCP
applications to work on the new platform.

http://www.eclipse.org/org/press-release/20120627_junorelease.php

Eclipse 3.8 is not considered the main release of Eclipse Juno but is only
intended for backwards compatibility. Please move the wheezy release from 3.8
to 4.2.



-- System Information:
Debian Release: wheezy/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 3.2.0-2-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

Versions of packages eclipse depends on:
ii  eclipse-jdt  3.8.0~rc4-1
ii  eclipse-pde  3.8.0~rc4-1

eclipse recommends no packages.

eclipse suggests no packages.

Versions of packages eclipse-platform depends on:
ii  ant1.8.2-4
ii  ant-optional   1.8.2-4
ii  default-jre [java6-runtime]1:1.6-47
ii  eclipse-platform-data  3.8.0~rc4-1
ii  eclipse-rcp3.8.0~rc4-1
ii  gcj-4.7-jre [java5-runtime]4.7.1-1
ii  gconf-service  3.2.5-1
ii  java-common0.47
ii  libc6  2.13-33
ii  libcommons-codec-java  1.6-1
ii  libcommons-httpclient-java 3.1-10
ii  libcommons-logging-java1.1.1-9
ii  libgconf-2-4   3.2.5-1
ii  libglib2.0-0   2.32.3-1
ii  libjetty8-java 8.1.3-4
ii  libjsch-java   0.1.42-2
ii  liblucene2-java2.9.4+ds1-4
ii  libservlet3.0-java 7.0.28-1
ii  multiarch-support  2.13-33
ii  openjdk-6-jre [java6-runtime]  6b24-1.11.3-2
ii  openjdk-7-jre [java6-runtime]  7~u3-2.1.1-1
ii  sat4j  2.3.1-1

Versions of packages eclipse-platform recommends:
ii  eclipse-pde  3.8.0~rc4-1

Versions of packages eclipse-platform suggests:
ii  eclipse-jdt  3.8.0~rc4-1

Versions of packages eclipse-pde depends on:
ii  default-jre [java6-runtime]1:1.6-47
ii  eclipse-jdt3.8.0~rc4-1
ii  eclipse-platform   3.8.0~rc4-1
ii  gcj-4.7-jre [java5-runtime]4.7.1-1
ii  libasm3-java   3.3.2-1
ii  openjdk-6-jre [java6-runtime]  6b24-1.11.3-2
ii  openjdk-7-jre [java6-runtime]  7~u3-2.1.1-1

eclipse-pde suggests no packages.

Versions of packages eclipse-jdt depends on:
ii  default-jre [java6-runtime]1:1.6-47
ii  eclipse-platform   3.8.0~rc4-1
ii  gcj-4.7-jre [java5-runtime]4.7.1-1
ii  junit  3.8.2-8
ii  junit4 4.10-3
ii  libhamcrest-java   1.2-2
ii  openjdk-6-jre [java6-runtime]  6b24-1.11.3-2
ii  openjdk-7-jre [java6-runtime]  7~u3-2.1.1-1

Versions of packages eclipse-jdt recommends:
ii  default-jdk  1:1.6-47

eclipse-jdt suggests no packages.

-- no debconf information

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