Re: Bug#588240: crashes with latest mplayer from sid
Hi Norbert, Am 03.08.2010 18:10, schrieb Norbert Preining: Because he provides libs without some functionality *not* torn out due to licensing reasons. So if he did NOT replace sys libs, the whole game would be useless, no improvement for users. (improvement: suddenly some things work that didn't work before, like strange video formats etc) the problem is that Marillat provides packages that carry the same package names as their counterparts in Debian but are binary-incompatible. Everything works fine as long as you use *only* his packages or *only* Debian's packages, but as soon as you mix up packages from both repositories you may experience faulty behaviour or crashes in e.g. vlc or mplayer. We know this and Marillat knows this. We offered collaboration, we asked him to change his package names, we asked him to update his (unstripped) packages only when we update our stripped ones, he overrode our package versioning by epoch bumping and so on. We really tried, but our efforts were fruitless and still lead to bug reports like this one. On the other hand, we (esp. Reinhard) are investing a lot of time into Debian's ffmpeg and mplayer packages and we are not going to adapt ourselves with Marillats arbitrary package releases. - Fabian ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#588240: crashes with latest mplayer from sid
Hi Norbert, Am 03.08.2010 18:10, schrieb Norbert Preining: Because he provides libs without some functionality *not* torn out due to licensing reasons. So if he did NOT replace sys libs, the whole game would be useless, no improvement for users. (improvement: suddenly some things work that didn't work before, like strange video formats etc) the problem is that Marillat provides packages that carry the same package names as their counterparts in Debian but are binary-incompatible. Everything works fine as long as you use *only* his packages or *only* Debian's packages, but as soon as you mix up packages from both repositories you may experience faulty behaviour or crashes in e.g. vlc or mplayer. We know this and Marillat knows this. We offered collaboration, we asked him to change his package names, we asked him to update his (unstripped) packages only when we update our stripped ones, he overrode our package versioning by epoch bumping and so on. We really tried, but our efforts were fruitless and still lead to bug reports like this one. On the other hand, we (esp. Reinhard) are investing a lot of time into Debian's ffmpeg and mplayer packages and we are not going to adapt ourselves with Marillats arbitrary package releases. - Fabian ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#588240: crashes with latest mplayer from sid
Hi,
I see the comment:
ii libavcodec52 5:0.6~svn20100603-0.0 library to encode decode
multimedi
ii libavformat52 5:0.6~svn20100603-0.0 ffmpeg file format library
ii libpostproc51 5:0.6~svn20100603-0.0 postproc shared libraries
ii libswscale05:0.6~svn20100603-0.0 ffmpeg video scaling library
^^ Not Debian packages, knowing to cause breakage.
And in bug report #591349 I see:
You are mixing debian-multimedia.org libraries with debian's system
libraries, and this is guaranteed to cause problems. More specifically,
mplayer rc3 is not compatible with ffmpeg 0.6,
Yes, sooo *what* breakage please?
What I see is:
- marillat provides working packages since ages
- your packages do not cooperate with the libs he is shipping
Why did you (maintainer) choose that specific version number:
2:1.0~rc3++final.dfsg1-1
with ++? Only to make sure that the packages at marillat are overridden
by packages that suddenly break video playback in many applications?
Yes, of course, the answer is: I don't care for package outside Debian
as we have seen above, but that is *not* the best way to go.
Why not choose a version number which is below the one of marillat? It
would still be the default package to be installed in Debian unless
people know what they are doing and adding marillat source.
Or is it about ego, my packages has to be the one that breaks all the
system out there???
Furthermore, you (Reinhard Tartler) said that mplayer is not compatbile
with ffmep 0.6, so why does the one from mdebian-multimedia run?
You say that mixing debian-multimedia libs with debians *guarantees*
to cause problems, well, up to today I never had these kinds of problems
in the last years, so it might be your personal observation, but mine
kind of disagrees with that. Can you please provide reasonable data point
beyond shipping a breaking package that supports your ideas?
THere is no statistical data, but I would expect that most people in
one or the other way use packages from marillat.
Anyway, I have downgraded to working packages and hope yours will
take a reasonable version number. But actually I don't care for them.
Enjoy
Norbert
Norbert Preiningprein...@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TeX Live Debian Developer
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
TIGHARRY (n.)
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card trick on London streets by winning an improbable amount of money
very easily.
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Bug#588240: crashes with latest mplayer from sid
On Tue, Aug 03, 2010 at 11:30:48 (EDT), Norbert Preining wrote: Hi, I see the comment: ii libavcodec52 5:0.6~svn20100603-0.0 library to encode decode multimedi ii libavformat52 5:0.6~svn20100603-0.0 ffmpeg file format library ii libpostproc51 5:0.6~svn20100603-0.0 postproc shared libraries ii libswscale05:0.6~svn20100603-0.0 ffmpeg video scaling library ^^ Not Debian packages, knowing to cause breakage. And in bug report #591349 I see: You are mixing debian-multimedia.org libraries with debian's system libraries, and this is guaranteed to cause problems. More specifically, mplayer rc3 is not compatible with ffmpeg 0.6, Yes, sooo *what* breakage please? The breakage that mplayer uses internal symbols of ffmpeg that mplayer is not supposed to do. This of course causes problems when the system ffmpeg version doesn't match the copy of mplayer. What I see is: - marillat provides working packages since ages - your packages do not cooperate with the libs he is shipping yes, that's technically infeasible. Why did you (maintainer) choose that specific version number: 2:1.0~rc3++final.dfsg1-1 with ++? Only to make sure that the packages at marillat are overridden by packages that suddenly break video playback in many applications? no, that was to fix a versioning mistake I did in the past. Yes, of course, the answer is: I don't care for package outside Debian as we have seen above, but that is *not* the best way to go. feel free to propose patches. I would propose to change marillat's packages to not replace the system libraries. But last time I've asked him that, he rejected that. Another option would be to make his packaging providing static libraries only. Why not choose a version number which is below the one of marillat? It would still be the default package to be installed in Debian unless people know what they are doing and adding marillat source. marillat does no longer provide mplayer. he is now focusing on mplayer-git, a fork of mplayer. Or is it about ego, my packages has to be the one that breaks all the system out there??? I don't think so. Furthermore, you (Reinhard Tartler) said that mplayer is not compatbile with ffmep 0.6, so why does the one from mdebian-multimedia run? His old package didn't and his new mplayer-git don't have this particular problem because he has always compiled against ffmpeg libraries statically. This is not acceptable for Debian for obvious reasons. You say that mixing debian-multimedia libs with debians *guarantees* to cause problems, well, up to today I never had these kinds of problems in the last years, so it might be your personal observation, but mine kind of disagrees with that. Can you please provide reasonable data point beyond shipping a breaking package that supports your ideas? I'd suggest that you compare the exported symbols between 'his' and the packages that he is replacing for a start. THere is no statistical data, but I would expect that most people in one or the other way use packages from marillat. this is sad, yes. Anyway, I have downgraded to working packages and hope yours will take a reasonable version number. But actually I don't care for them. that's okay for me. take care! -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#588240: crashes with latest mplayer from sid
On Di, 03 Aug 2010, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
- your packages do not cooperate with the libs he is shipping
yes, that's technically infeasible.
Ok.
Why did you (maintainer) choose that specific version number:
2:1.0~rc3++final.dfsg1-1
with ++? Only to make sure that the packages at marillat are overridden
by packages that suddenly break video playback in many applications?
no, that was to fix a versioning mistake I did in the past.
Well, but the effect is the same, that everyon who used mplayer
before from marillat suddenly has a broken system.
I would propose to change marillat's packages to not replace the system
libraries. But last time I've asked him that, he rejected that. Another
option would be to make his packaging providing static libraries only.
Because he provides libs without some functionality *not* torn out
due to licensing reasons. So if he did NOT replace sys libs, the whole
game would be useless, no improvement for users.
(improvement: suddenly some things work that didn't work before, like
strange video formats etc)
Why not choose a version number which is below the one of marillat? It
would still be the default package to be installed in Debian unless
people know what they are doing and adding marillat source.
marillat does no longer provide mplayer. he is now focusing on
mplayer-git, a fork of mplayer.
Well, the package name is still mplayer afais.
Or is it about ego, my packages has to be the one that breaks all the
system out there???
I don't think so.
Good to know.
Furthermore, you (Reinhard Tartler) said that mplayer is not compatbile
with ffmep 0.6, so why does the one from mdebian-multimedia run?
His old package didn't and his new mplayer-git don't have this
particular problem because he has always compiled against ffmpeg
libraries statically. This is not acceptable for Debian for obvious
reasons.
Why? I compile several of the libs statically into the binaries of xetex
(texlive-binaries) because the libs need some adaption to what is
shipped in Debian (libicu), so what is the problem?
Of course it is not desirable, but there is no inherent problem with that.
If libicu accepts all changes from xetex I will happily reuse system
libicu, otherwise bad luck.
You say that mixing debian-multimedia libs with debians *guarantees*
to cause problems, well, up to today I never had these kinds of problems
in the last years, so it might be your personal observation, but mine
kind of disagrees with that. Can you please provide reasonable data point
beyond shipping a breaking package that supports your ideas?
I'd suggest that you compare the exported symbols between 'his' and the
packages that he is replacing for a start.
What does the list of *exported*symbols* have to do with actual breakage?
Typing mplayer foo.flv and seeing a dump or seeing a video is what we
are talking about.
THere is no statistical data, but I would expect that most people in
one or the other way use packages from marillat.
this is sad, yes.
WHY? I strongly disagree. Because there is someone who is doing the big
work of getting things easily accessible for the user that out of
policy reasons cannot enter Debian proper (and I must say sometimes
that is ridiculuous, becuase some items are not accepted due to the
fear of being in contradiction to some legislation in some country somewhere,
while the same code is present in a different package which is since
ages in Debian - at least last year I remember such a case, ffmpeg or so -
don't kill me for details).
We should be *grateful* to Marillat for doing that work!!! ANd I as
a Debian Developer am *really* happy that he is doing that!
Best wishes
Norbert
PS A simple solution would have been adding conflicts against the
packages as provided by marillat ... that would have helped everyone
and kept a working system. And yes, you *can* add conflicts to packages
that are not in Debian proper!
Norbert Preiningprein...@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TeX Live Debian Developer
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
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-taken-to-another-place-leaving-only-the-special-inkwell-and-three-
-inches-of-tin-chain'.
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