D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham closed this revision.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Niccolò Venerandi]

niccolove added a comment.


  strong +1

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  I'm going to stand firm on 2.5x gridUnit for now. That works out to 46px, 
which is not too tall (IMO) and increases touch friendliness by a lot. Let's 
all keep in mind that this is super easily configurable.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  We discussed this and D29501  at the 
virtual plasma sprint today and concludes that we should probably do the 
horizontal version here. Nobody overtly hated the vertical version, but issues 
displaying the clock +date and system tray items were brought up and we don't 
really have a great solution for those. So let's shelve that idea for now and 
stick with this one here.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  There's still disagreement over whether we should do this or the other one, 
and how to implement them, so I don't think we know what release one of them 
will land in (if any).

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Rik Mills]

rikmills added a comment.


  Is this to land in 5.19?

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Every change upsets somebody; that's not a reason to avoid change. We change 
things when the proposed change is a universal or net improvement, and we leave 
things the same when it would be worse or no better. So you should evaluate 
that (and any) patch on its merits.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[KonqiDragon]

KonqiDragon added a comment.


  In D27845#665342 , @ngraham wrote:
  
  > Since I'm not feeling a lot of enthusiasm for this patch, I've submitted an 
alternative that fully implements the proposal in T12441 
 with no design compromises: D29501: Use 
left-aligned thickened panel with IOTM populated with some apps by default 

  
  
  I think you should not move the panel to the left, because "Kool Desktop 
Environment" and Plasma always had a panel on bottom by default, such a sudden 
change may upset users.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Since I'm not feeling a lot of enthusiasm for this patch, I've submitted an 
alternative that fully implements the proposal in T12441 
 with no design compromises: D29501: Use 
left-aligned thickened panel with IOTM populated with some apps by default 


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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  So now with this patch, the new default panel height is 46px. It seems like 
there's still a camp that would prefer a smaller value, though and I don't want 
to steamroll over them. However I agree with @veggero that the 42 and 44px 
sizes look odd given the current icon scaling algorithms, so I'd prefer not to 
use those. I also happen to think that 40 looks odd too, since the Kickoff icon 
is visibly larger than the icons for pinned apps: F8290199: 40.png 

  
  The system tray items do seem to fit the space better with the thinner panel 
though. But I don't think that's a huge deal since tray icons are supposed to 
be small and unobtrusive.
  
  Also from a less technical angle, I think that when using an IOTM, a larger 
effective click area is desirable since the buttons are now much less wide than 
TTM items are. This is especially true for touch use cases, which we need to 
consider since 2-in-1s are a thing. So personally, I think the extra size 
imparted by 46px is useful.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham updated this revision to Diff 82142.
ngraham added a comment.


  Round up to nearest even number

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham updated this revision to Diff 82140.
ngraham added a comment.


  Rebase

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Niccolò Venerandi]

niccolove added a comment.


  Size should be an even number
  
  - For sizes from 36 to 40, I'm OK with it
  - At 42 and 44 the icons in the task manager become too big for the panel; 
their size should be reduced to same as the launcher button, then it's fine
  - At 46 and over it's fine

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  The blocking bug was just fixed with D28632 
, therefore...
  
  ping! :)

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham updated this revision to Diff 79514.
ngraham added a comment.


  Rebase

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[George Vogiatzis]

gvgeo added a comment.


  Are there objections for `Math.round(gridUnit * 2.33)`  (42 with default 
settings) suggested by @filifp? So that it can have big icons.
  
  In D27845#622739 , @ndavis wrote:
  
  > I don't want to turn this into bikeshedding, but I think a size of 42 is 
better because that raises the size of task manager icons to 32px. 22px is 
pretty small for an IOTM.
  >  With that said, I think something we'll have to work on is finding ways to 
improve the way panel items are sized so that we don't have to pick sizes based 
on how different widgets change icon sizes.
  
  
  Personally I thing that 36 is good, with 40 been the max I would like to see. 
But don't see 2 more pixels a good enough reason to stall this patch, when the 
majority of VGD agree on IOTM for various reasons.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  In D27845#623019 , @mart wrote:
  
  > In D27845#622178 , @ngraham 
wrote:
  >
  > > Not as touch-friendly, but the clock text looks better and it won't be so 
huge for people using low-DPI screens. However 38 is not easy to calculate by 
our existing units so it would likely need to be hardcoded.
  >
  >
  > all of that at what dpi?
  >  for each scaling everyhting will look fairly different (and yes, using a 
number of pixels instead of a gridunit is just going to break)
  
  
  Yeah, we moved back to using `gridUnit`-based sizing. :)

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Marco Martin]

mart added a comment.


  In D27845#622178 , @ngraham wrote:
  
  > Not as touch-friendly, but the clock text looks better and it won't be so 
huge for people using low-DPI screens. However 38 is not easy to calculate by 
our existing units so it would likely need to be hardcoded.
  
  
  all of that at what dpi?
  for each scaling everyhting will look fairly different

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Filip Fila]

filipf added inline comments.

INLINE COMMENTS

> layout.js:28
> +// For an Icons-Only Task Manager on the bottom, *3 is too much, *2 is too 
> little
> +panel.height = Math.round(gridUnit * 2.5)
>  

can we do `Math.round(gridUnit * 2.25)` or at least `Math.round(gridUnit * 
2.33)` ?

That's about 41px and 42px respectively, and shouldn't stand out us a huge 
change from what we had or look awfully big on PCs.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  In D27845#622970 , @kmaterka wrote:
  
  > Should System Tray icons be larger then?
  
  
  Here's how it would look to go from `iconSize=1` to `iconSize=2` (i.e, 16px 
to 22px): F815: Bigger.png 

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham updated this revision to Diff 77053.
ngraham added a comment.


  Use a gridUnit-based measurement again, and increase the thickness a bit to 
effectively 46px tall, which I really don't think is excessive

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Konrad Materka]

kmaterka added a comment.


  Should System Tray icons be larger then?

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  @davidedmundson one problem here is that a `gridUnit` is a fairly coarse unit 
of measurement, and gridUnit * 3, or 54px is a bit larger than we'd like, but 
the current thickness (gridUnit *2, or 36px) is too thin. We initially settled 
on something in the mid 40s, but seeing 54 made various people think we needed 
to go even lower. Basically we have not yet achieved consensus on the exact 
pixel value we want for the panel, but whatever we settle on is not likely to 
be an exact multiple of `gridUnit`, and other units such as `smallSpacing` 
didn't seem to evaluate when I tried to use them here; maybe that's just a bug 
that needs to get fixed.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[George Vogiatzis]

gvgeo added a comment.


  IMO better use Math.round(gridUnit*2.1)  than fixed value that will not 
always look good with a scaled display.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  @davidedmundson Nate says smallSpacing doesn't work here. Do you know why?

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[David Edmundson]

davidedmundson added inline comments.

INLINE COMMENTS

> layout.js:28
>  
> -panel.height = gridUnit * 2
> +// Same as the default height of the Windows panel
> +panel.height = 38

I'm seeing this on too many tickets where we replace doing any design and 
thinking for being lazy copy cats.  If people want exactly Windows, they can 
just use that.

We're meant to have a Visual Design Team, not a Vista Duplication Team.

I can't express how much this comment irks me.

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abetts, sebas, apol, ahiemstra, mart

D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added inline comments.

INLINE COMMENTS

> davidedmundson wrote in layout.js:29
> why is this no longer unit based

Because VDG people wanted a size that isn't a multiple or clean divisor of 
`gridUnit` and none of the other units values would evaluate for some reason.

Some people think 38 is the best pixel value, and others think something in the 
40s would be better.

Open to options.

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To: ngraham, #vdg, #plasma
Cc: davidedmundson, ndavis, KonqiDragon, niccolove, The-Feren-OS-Dev, 
plasma-devel, Orage, LeGast00n, cblack, jraleigh, zachus, fbampaloukas, GB_2, 
ragreen, ZrenBot, ngraham, himcesjf, lesliezhai, ali-mohamed, jensreuterberg, 
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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[David Edmundson]

davidedmundson added inline comments.

INLINE COMMENTS

> layout.js:29
> +// Same as the default height of the Windows panel
> +panel.height = 38
>  

why is this no longer unit based

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To: ngraham, #vdg, #plasma
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plasma-devel, Orage, LeGast00n, cblack, jraleigh, zachus, fbampaloukas, GB_2, 
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abetts, sebas, apol, ahiemstra, mart

D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  In D27845#622739 , @ndavis wrote:
  
  > I don't want to turn this into bikeshedding, but I think a size of 42 is 
better because that raises the size of task manager icons to 32px. 22px is 
pretty small for an IOTM.
  >  With that said, I think something we'll have to work on is finding ways to 
improve the way panel items are sized so that we don't have to pick sizes based 
on how different widgets change icon sizes.
  
  
  I don't disagree, and would also prefer something bigger than 38. 42 would be 
nice.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  In D27845#622434 , @KonqiDragon 
wrote:
  
  > Why Show/Hide Desktop icon is so huge?
  
  
  Because icon sizing in panels is a mess.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  I don't want to turn this into bikeshedding, but I think a size of 42 is 
better because that raises the size of task manager icons to 32px. 22px is 
pretty small for an IOTM.
  With that said, I think something we'll have to work on is finding ways to 
improve the way panel items are sized so that we don't have to pick sizes based 
on how different widgets change icon sizes.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[KonqiDragon]

KonqiDragon added a comment.


  In D27845#622551 , @niccolove 
wrote:
  
  > The plasma logo is also quite big. For reference, here's my 38px panel:
  >  F8152196: image.png 
  
  
  It's looks so small (to me), but feels more consitant.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Niccolò Venerandi]

niccolove added a comment.


  The plasma logo is also quite big. For reference, here's my 38px panel:
  F8152196: image.png 

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[KonqiDragon]

KonqiDragon added a comment.


  In D27845#622178 , @ngraham wrote:
  
  > Some folks in the #VDG  channel have 
objected to the panel being 48px tall, so here's how it would look at 38 (the 
default Windows panel height):
  >
  > F8149938: 38.png 
  >
  > Not as touch-friendly, but the clock text looks better and it won't be so 
huge for people using low-DPI screens. However 38 is not easy to calculate by 
our existing units so it would likely need to be hardcoded.
  
  
  Why Show/Hide Desktop icon so huge?

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham updated this revision to Diff 76967.
ngraham added a comment.


  Use 38px as the height, and hardcode it since there's no good way to get 
there with a
  multiple of `gridUnit`

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AFFECTED FILES
  applets/taskmanager/package/contents/config/main.xml
  layout-templates/org.kde.plasma.desktop.defaultPanel/contents/layout.js

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Now to my eyes, 38px is too small. But apparently my tired old eyes and small 
screen (13.3" FHD) are not representative of other VDG people's views. :)
  
  Still it makes me realize that we really need to get 
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356446 done so that Plasma can properly 
scale itself. Ideally I would be using a 1.1 or 1.2x scale factor and 
everything in Plasma would automatically get bigger. And even more ideally, the 
correct scale factor would be auto-detected based on the user's display metrics.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Niccolò Venerandi]

niccolove added a comment.


  +1 to 38
  Weirdly enough, the plasma icon only looks that big from >40, while the IOTM 
does not use big icons in 40 yet. I'd like small icons to be used consistently.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Some folks in the #VDG  channel have 
objected to the panel being 48px tall, so here's how it would look at 38 (the 
default Windows panel height):
  
  F8149938: 38.png 
  
  Not as touch-friendly, but the clock text looks better and it won't be so 
huge for people using low-DPI screens. However 38 is not easy to calculate by 
our existing units so it would likely need to be hardcoded.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Sounds like a bug we should fix with the `preferred://` schemas then.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Dominic Hayes]

The-Feren-OS-Dev added a comment.


  
`applications:systemsettings.desktop,applications:org.kde.discover.desktop,preferred://filemanager,preferred://browser`
  
  There is currently an issue that might make this cumbersome, unless it was 
fixed very recently as part of the patch work for this, being that 
preferred://browser causes duplicated entries for stuff like Vivaldi, etc 
(they'll be separate from the preferred:// pins meaning the preferred:// item 
basically acts as a quick launcher which is far from what is intended). Similar 
problem with preferred://filemanager. I would've used those instead of hard 
pins to vivaldi.desktop and org.kde.dolphin.desktop by default in Feren OS if 
it wasn't for that aforementioned issue being there.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  One other note: it might make sense to turn on the Digital Clock's date 
display by default if we go with this, as the clock text is currently rather 
gigantic and IMO adding the date results in both more information and also a 
better use of space:
  
  F8149908: clock.png 
  
  It might also be nice to make the date automatically appear for panels of a 
certain height, and then change the date display to a three-position setting 
"always shown", "always hidden", and "automatic". That would be material for 
another patch though.

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D27845: Replace Task Manager with Icons-Only-Task Manager in the default panel, and thicken it

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham created this revision.
ngraham added reviewers: VDG, Plasma.
Herald added a project: Plasma.
Herald added a subscriber: plasma-devel.
ngraham requested review of this revision.

REVISION SUMMARY
  This patch implements the part of T12441  
that was virtually universally agreed-to:
  switching out the regular Task Manager for an Icons-Only Task Manager, 
pinning some
  apps by default, and thickening the panel. The panel remains in its current 
position.
  
  Ideally I'd like for this patch to used for discussions about the 
implementation, not the
  general concept, so if you have concerns about that, please put them in 
T12441 .
  
  Also note that https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=403640 currently breaks 
the IOTM
  icons from keeping their position, which would definitely need to be fixed 
before this
  lands.

TEST PLAN
  This is now the default panel: F8149886: desktop.png 


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AFFECTED FILES
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  layout-templates/org.kde.plasma.desktop.defaultPanel/contents/layout.js

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