r side [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: Clip: The state of country radio
Looking at the matter in terms of the country music industry and the
way
that it works, Twain's career, at least through The Woman In Me, bears
a
considerable resemblance to t
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Clip: The state of country radio
In a message dated 3/15/99 9:40:41 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Just happened
This is pretty evident by the fact that instead of folding to the whims of
Nashville and becoming another music publisher's puppet, she fond Mutt
Lange
(or should I say he found her), who in return allowed her to do things her
own way.
Not aware of what her lounge singing consisted of in Canada,
Correct me if I'm wrong here (and I've been meaning to bring this up about
Shania), but since when was Shania ever really "Country." From what I've
read about her, she was singing pop songs in a Vegas format in
some vacation lodges in Canada. It just so happens that the one person
that
From: Mike Hays
Not aware of what her lounge singing consisted of in Canada, but before she
met Mutt she did a pretty decent straight ahead country CD which if I
remember correctly, received critical acclaim but little commercial
acceptance as it came out just as the POP boom in country was
Terry says:
As for rock influences on country, Jon's made this point before, and it's
well documented, but I'd argue that there's rock influences and then
there's rock influences. The sort of rock influences that's "corrupting"
commercial country music these days is, for the most part,
From: Jon Weisberger
More to the point, though, the CMF's new Encyclopedia of Country
Music says that 1) she came to Nashville with a tape and hooked up with
Shedd there,
Well shame on me then for watching and believing what I see on VH1, but
according to their report, she was singing away
[Matt Benz] Shania sez in the VH1 special that she sang whatever was in
demand: she sang in rock bands, top 40 cover bands, country bands. She
was a typical lounge-type performer: simply doing whatever styles were
wanted at the time. As far as I can tell, she was not pre-disposed to
country
[Matt Benz] Shania sez in the VH1 special...
Hmm, first Derek, now Matt confesses to having tuned in. I think it's
pretty clear just who the real Shania fans are here.
Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Grand Funk one. So yeh, I'm shameless.
M
-Original Message-
From: Jon Weisberger [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 10:26 AM
To: passenger side
Subject: RE: Clip: The state of country radio
[Matt Benz] Shania sez in the VH1 special...
Hmm, first
Looking at the matter in terms of the country music industry and the way
that it works, Twain's career, at least through The Woman In Me, bears a
considerable resemblance to that of some of the 70s Outlaws - that is to
say, a struggle with "conservative" producers and label execs over her
Looking at the matter in terms of the country music industry and the way
that it works, Twain's career, at least through The Woman In Me, bears a
considerable resemblance to that of some of the 70s Outlaws - that is to
say, a struggle with "conservative" producers and label execs over her
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 16-Mar-99 RE: Clip: The
state of cou.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne
So you say, but I think it depends a lot on your degree of interest in rock.
If you're not interested in classical music, and you think that
incorporating classical music influences
So you say, but I think it depends a lot on your degree of
interest in rock.
If you're not interested in classical music, and you think that
incorporating classical music influences into rock makes the result less
enjoyable, are you really going to care whether it's
Beethoven's
Often in these P2 discussions of radio, I'm surprised at the notion
that people could actually make a change in it. I'm much more of the
opinion that the music industry *manufactures* mass taste and the
need for its products. Very pessimistic on that point. I know it's
not a simple equation,
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 16-Mar-99 RE: Clip: The state
of coun.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne
Hmm, Carl, does this mean you're not interested in classical music?
Relative to several other types of music, that would be a fair
statement. I'm a casual listener at best.
Excerpts
Carl says:
Would a discussion of the merits of Kenny G's and Sonny Rollins's
influence on rock by non-jazz fans be fair? I'll bet there's a lurker
or two who's not big on jazz but digs the Stones' "Waiting For a Friend"
runs screaming from Michael Bolton's work
Fair, sure, why not? g
So:
Perhaps. I'd rather hear Debussy than Wagner in my rock. The latter
leads to things like Meat Loaf.
Hmm, Carl, does this mean you're not interested in classical music?
Besides, the former leads to things like BST.
People!! Wagner and Debussy are yucky *romantic* music. They are
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 16-Mar-99 RE: Clip: The state
of coun.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne
But consider that, as best I can tell, anyhow, one
of the raps on Kenny G is that his work is influenced by the wrong kinds of
rock and pop, so a certain degree of circularity starts
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 16-Mar-99 RE: Clip: The state
of coun.. by "Ph. Barnard"@eagle.cc.u
People!! Wagner and Debussy are yucky *romantic* music. They are
NOT *classical* music. All European music isn't the same. Don't
mix great composers like Mozart and Cimarosa
People!! Wagner and Debussy are yucky *romantic* music. They are
NOT *classical* music. All European music isn't the same. Don't
mix great composers like Mozart and Cimarosa in with trash like
Wagner, sheesh g What would you think if somebody
characterized Buck as
I love this. Only on P2 does a discussion of the state of country
radio devolve into questions about the differential effects of
radically diverse sax players like Brubeck, Kenny G, Sun Ra, or
Coltrane on a non-informed rock audience. Not to mention this
business about Wagner
Jr. goes:
Popular taste is not formed before industry dreck gets heard, it's
formed *in and by* industry dreck.
And then Todd goes:
When did T.W. Adorno sneak on to the list?
And so I goes:
Like, too long ago? Jr. is using a real overpure Frankfurt-school reading
of popular
No, no, I know that, Mr.Junior. (I mean, really, with a name like
"Junior", you'd have been drummed out of the Teddy-and-Walt Noble
Frankfurters Clubhouse at the first meeting...) But I was somewhat,
somehow serious that the management-and-creation-of-taste line, while
Terry says:
What I'm trying to say -- the relative merit
of the music (which is all a matter of taste) isn't addressed on any
levels in your comparisons about how each of these artists, or group of
artists, dealt with the "industry." If Shania was a duck quacking, and
she'd gone through
Jon quotes me here (and is kind of enough not to point out that I tangled
up that last sentence and said the opposite of what I meant):
I think your comparative points are
instructive, but of limited utility, when we're trying to gauge to what
extent rock influences have eroded or
But isn't the history of country music more or less the history of its
influences? And that being the case, doesn't that make the influences,
and genres within the influences, very valid -- even crucial -- factors in
assessing the music? It seems as if you're throwing all rock music into
Well, well, wellmaybe if they started playing folks like Dale Watson, The
Derailers, Duane Jarvis, Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Rosie Flores, Kelly
Willis, Jann Browne, Heather Myles, Mike Ireland, Lucinda, Lauderdale, Cisco,
The Hollisters, Buddy Miller and Steve Earle they'd get those
Kate writes:
Well, well, wellmaybe if they started playing folks like Dale
Watson, The Derailers, Duane Jarvis, Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale
Gilmore, Rosie Flores, Kelly Willis, Jann Browne, Heather
Myles, Mike Ireland, Lucinda, Lauderdale, Cisco, The Hollisters,
Buddy Miller and Steve Earle
Well, well, wellmaybe if they started playing folks like Dale
Watson, The
Derailers, Duane Jarvis, Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Rosie Flores, Kelly
Willis, Jann Browne, Heather Myles, Mike Ireland, Lucinda,
Lauderdale, Cisco,
The Hollisters, Buddy Miller and Steve Earle they'd get
or something else again. I haven't seen even a whisper of a desire for
twangier, more hardcore country stuff in the coverage of the CRS that's been
posted here - and in fact, the positive references to "outlaws" merely
underlines the point, as the musical content of The Outlaws boom of the
From: Terry A. Smith
Coming from the country side,
the main reason to have a problem with Shania (and her increasing progeny)
is her desertion of "real country," and as Jon and others have so well
argued, the notion of pure or real country music isn't unlike a
toddler's idea of Camelot.
I frankly think that what's happening is that the novelty factor is wearing
off for a lot of the newer country listeners, and they're off to look for
the Next Big Thing without much concern for whether it's labeled rock or pop
or something else again. I haven't seen even a whisper of a desire
In a message dated 3/15/99 9:40:41 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Just happened to be station-surfing Sunday morning on the way back from the
gig in Knoxville and came across Elton John's "Hold Me Closer, Tiny Dancer"
rock/pop operretta -- it features, in addition to
Using up my "me too" quotient for the month, I'll say that I think Jon has
this exactly right. The line- dancing-for-yuppies era is pretty well dead
and buried, the suburbanites who embraced HNC in the late 1980s and early
1990s have moved on, as Jon notes, to whatever--Hootie or Lilith
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