Hi Wietse,
Therefore I am looking into replacing 'black' in negative context
and maybe replacing 'white' as well. As Noel Jones noted, using
black/white for access control may be confusing for non-English
readers.
What about redlist (stop) and greenlist (go)? Traffic lights are pretty
On 6/6/20 10:54 PM, @lbutlr wrote:
> Yes. This. Though I do think that having a casual and constant reinforcement
> that black == bad helps people justify their racist beliefs.
No it doesn't and black doesn't equal bad, although dark does... and for
good reason, because darkness hides things
"That is 100% correct technological description"
In Object Oriented Programming nomenclature, Blacklist and Master/Slave
are both "cohesive"!
On 6/7/20 7:27 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
That is 100% correct technological description
"It is a small group of international fanatics"
Somebody's tuned-in. ;)
John
On 6/7/20 7:29 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
It is a small group of international fanatics
On Sun, Jun 07, 2020 at 09:50:27PM +0200, Fulvio Scapin wrote:
> Hello.
>
> With a prospective of non-native English speaker, I believe that,
> political correctness aside, a name which does not involve a cultural
> reference for the related function to be understood is a welcome
> change since
On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 02:06:14AM +0200, Jaroslaw Rafa wrote:
> Ralph and Nicolas - I fully agree with you both.
>
> While I can somehow understand American fixations on political correctness,
It is not American. It is a small group of international fanatics... in
general.
> I find it
On Sun, Jun 07, 2020 at 08:43:08PM -0400, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> On 2020-06-07 14:46, Laura Smith wrote:
> >> The point here is
> >> that maybe this is just a small, insignificant, easy change that could
> >> be done that might make black folks feel less excluded and more
> >> interested in
On 6/6/20 10:54 PM, @lbutlr wrote:
> Yes. This. Though I do think that having a casual and constant reinforcement
> that black == bad helps people justify their racist beliefs.
No it doesn't and black doesn't equal bad, although dark does... and for
good reason, because darkness hides things
On 2020-06-07 15:23, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:
>
> To my European eyes (living in France, born in Austria, Hungarian family) the
> American political correctness movement comes close to what the French call
> "la
> politesse".
>
> Some nasty form of passive-aggressive mud-wrestling.
I agree. I
On 2020-06-07 14:46, Laura Smith wrote:
>> The point here is
>> that maybe this is just a small, insignificant, easy change that could
>> be done that might make black folks feel less excluded and more
>> interested in participating.
>
>
> Give me a break.
>
> Master/Slave, Blacklist/Whitelist
On 2020-06-07 13:26, Noel Jones wrote:
> With postfix, this is mostly a documentation issue, other than a few
> postscreen parameter names.
>
> I'm not opposed to changing postfix documentation and parameter
> names to refer to {allow,permit} and {deny,reject} using whichever
> verb fits best.
May I offer to those who want to continue this off-topic discussion to
do it at https://zoom.us/j/99433754361 ?
up to 100 participants, no time limits, open for the next few days.
It's on my firm. Enjoy. I will be there for the next little while.
No reply to the ML, thanks.
--
Yuval Levy,
Ralph and Nicolas - I fully agree with you both.
While I can somehow understand American fixations on political correctness,
I find it highly inappropriate when Americans want to impose their own
fixations on the whole world.
An assumption that everybody has to view the political/social issues
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome
Pliny probably had slaves.
Ron
On 2020-06-07 2:32 p.m., micah anderson wrote:
Laura Smith writes:
Before jumping on the hobbyhorse of self-righthousness about refusing
to use “whitelist”/“blacklist”, perhaps you would do well to spend a
I am not sure how going to Caucasian-listed vs African-American-listed
is going to help inclusion in the data processing field.
If you or someone you know is "racialialized" and the biggest problem is
how IT describes entities,
Eliminating the word "Black" is not going to address any of
On So, Jun 07, 2020 at 14:32:37 -0400, micah anderson wrote:
the color black has been always associated with the negative, and
As long as the night is dark and black these words are considered
negative. A dark room or a black room are always more negative than
a light room.
Many dangers in
Hello.
With a prospective of non-native English speaker, I believe that,
political correctness aside, a name which does not involve a cultural
reference for the related function to be understood is a welcome
change since it reduces, if marginally, for users the possibility of
misunderstanding
Laura Smith:
> Master/Slave, Blacklist/Whitelist in computing making black folks
> feel excluded ?
As maintainer of Postfix, I think that words do matter, just like
the use of he/she/they matters.
Therefore I am looking into replacing 'black' in negative context
and maybe replacing 'white' as
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 15:27:21 -0400
"vi...@vheuser.com" wrote:
> Enough already.
+1
d
--
Affectionate tactile stimulation is a primary need, a need which must
be satisfied if the infant is to develop as a healthy human being.
And what is a healthy human being? One who is able to love, to
On 2020/06/07 14:13 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote:
On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:03 PM, vi...@vheuser.com wrote:
Why not take it off this list and contact the developers?
Users can't make small changes.
Enough already.
The intersection of “this is meaningless politics, stop being such a carelord”
and
Le 07/06/2020 à 20:25, Ralph Seichter a écrit :
> Sources, please. A colleague of Kenyan heritage told me that he is, in his
> own words, "sometimes amused but mostly annoyed by the American political
> correctness movement".
To my European eyes (living in France, born in Austria, Hungarian
The practice of systematic erasure of language regresses to human
ideas. Language policing has inertia and a kind of gravity that starts
removing tangential-but-uncontroversial ideas as a byproduct; dangerous
and anti-human! Appropriate usage of the term "Black" is not racist.
Not hiring
> The point here is
> that maybe this is just a small, insignificant, easy change that could
> be done that might make black folks feel less excluded and more
> interested in participating.
Give me a break.
Master/Slave, Blacklist/Whitelist in computing making black folks feel excluded
?
For
Scott Kitterman:
> On Sunday, June 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM EDT vi...@vheuser.com wrote:
> > Why not take it off this list and contact the developers?
> > Users can't make small changes.
> > Enough already.
>
> This list is the appropriate place for users to contact Postfix
> developers. You may not
Laura Smith writes:
> Before jumping on the hobbyhorse of self-righthousness about refusing
> to use “whitelist”/“blacklist”, perhaps you would do well to spend a
> few minutes on your favourite search engine researching the entymology
> of such terms.
>
> The origin of blacklist, for example,
* Norton Allen:
> Someone has suggested that we make a small change
I did not see a suggestion, just a question about how easy it would be
to make changes.
> a change that Black people have said would make them feel better
Sources, please. A colleague of Kenyan heritage told me that he is, in
On Sunday, June 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM EDT vi...@vheuser.com wrote:
> Why not take it off this list and contact the developers?
> Users can't make small changes.
> Enough already.
This list is the appropriate place for users to contact Postfix developers.
You may not have noticed but the creator of
> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:03 PM, vi...@vheuser.com wrote:
>
> Why not take it off this list and contact the developers?
> Users can't make small changes.
> Enough already.
The intersection of “this is meaningless politics, stop being such a carelord”
and “shield my eyes from further discussion
> On Jun 7, 2020, at 8:03 AM, Laura Smith
> wrote:
>
>
>> I wonder that two very new documents describe something that has been long
>> recommended to avoid: postgrey
>
> I agree. Greylisting is a primitive, last century "sledgehammer to crack a
> nut".
>
> It has no place in 2020's
Noel Jones:
> With postfix, this is mostly a documentation issue, other than a few
> postscreen parameter names.
>
> I'm not opposed to changing postfix documentation and parameter
> names to refer to {allow,permit} and {deny,reject} using whichever
> verb fits best. This might even make
Why not take it off this list and contact the developers?
Users can't make small changes.
Enough already.
On 2020/06/07 12:59 PM, Pau Amma wrote:
On 2020-06-07 18:44, Norton Allen wrote:
[undeserved snippage]
Someone has suggested that we make a small change, a change that Black
people
With postfix, this is mostly a documentation issue, other than a few
postscreen parameter names.
I'm not opposed to changing postfix documentation and parameter
names to refer to {allow,permit} and {deny,reject} using whichever
verb fits best. This might even make documentation easier to
On 2020-06-07 18:44, Norton Allen wrote:
[undeserved snippage]
Someone has suggested that we make a small change, a change that Black
people have said would make them feel better, and all we can do is
argue that making that change would be too difficult, unnecessary,
ineffective or
On 6/7/2020 9:01 AM, A. Schulze wrote:
Am 07.06.20 um 14:38 schrieb yuv:
Is there a valid reason for a sender not to fix something so essential
as DNS configuration?
no valid reason but reality.
There are so many sendings hosts named "foobar.local". Via NAT they are visible
with a public
Yes, the request is political. Politics is about how we live and work
together, how we treat each other. Software, particularly open source
software, is not just inanimate objects. It is developed and nurtured
within a community of real people who live in our very real society.
I am going to
I do not wish to become involved in this whole debate, in particular as I think
it is somewhat idiotic to seek to bring the whole Politically Correct debate to
inanimate objects such as computers or software programs.
However, I would like to say just one thing.
Before jumping on the
Am 07.06.20 um 14:38 schrieb yuv:
> Is there a valid reason for a sender not to fix something so essential
> as DNS configuration?
no valid reason but reality.
There are so many sendings hosts named "foobar.local". Via NAT they are visible
with a public IP
and a perfect DNS. But this hosts
On Sun, 2020-06-07 at 14:22 +0200, A. Schulze wrote:
> using "reject_unknown_helo_hostname" may trigger some false
> positives. Not every sender have such perfect setups.
Is there a valid reason for a sender not to fix something so essential
as DNS configuration?
--
Yuval Levy, JD, MBA, CFA
Am 07.06.20 um 11:51 schrieb Nicolas Kovacs:
using "reject_unknown_helo_hostname" may trigger some false positives. Not
every sender have such perfect setups.
You may use "warn_if_reject reject_unknown_helo_hostname" for some time and
check if loosing such traffic is acceptable for you.
> I wonder that two very new documents describe something that has been long
> recommended to avoid: postgrey
I agree. Greylisting is a primitive, last century "sledgehammer to crack a
nut".
It has no place in 2020's anti-spam.
On 07.06.20 11:51, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:
I'm currently fine-tuning my mail server (Postfix and Dovecot on CentOS 7).
SPF, DKIM and DMARC work fine, now I'd like to limit the spam tsunami.
Besides the official Postfix documentation, I've read a few articles about
Postfix spam restrictions,
> reject_rhsbl_helo dbl.spamhaus.org,
> reject_rhsbl_reverse_client dbl.spamhaus.org,
> reject_rhsbl_sender dbl.spamhaus.org,
> reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org
> --8<
>
Bear in mind that whilst Spamhaus is great, to get the most out of
On 07/06/2020 10:51, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:
> Before committing this configuration to my main server, I thought I'd share
> this configuration on the list. Maybe the Postfix gurus among you have the odd
> comment to make.
>
> My aim is simply to eliminate as much spam as possible (that is,
Hi,
I'm currently fine-tuning my mail server (Postfix and Dovecot on CentOS 7).
SPF, DKIM and DMARC work fine, now I'd like to limit the spam tsunami.
Besides the official Postfix documentation, I've read a few articles about
Postfix spam restrictions, namely these :
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