Re: [Potlatch-dev] Status of potlatch2 development?

2013-02-28 Thread tmcw
To add on to Richard's comment:

One other vital purpose of P2 at this point is for backwards-compatibility
with OSM's significant percentage of IE users. iD isn't IE10 compatible and
realistically cannot be, so having P2 and other editors as options is
essential.

Also, P2 is still a more advanced editor than iD and it's not clear that iD
will ever be as advanced for certain things. Richard points out external
vector sources, and I'd add on manual relation editing - iD will probably
try to handle certain relation-cases in UI-wrapped ways first.

That and of course, P2 is where we find smart implementations of everything
related to OSM.

Re: some of Steve's questions -

- are the internals at all similar to Potlatch?...

Yes and no - there's a similar concept of actions. Map rendering and the
data structure are entirely different. A few of the operations/algorithms
are directly ported from P2. Currently iD uses a converted version of P2's
imagery.xml file, but we'll probably switch to JOSM's or another source.

- is there a specified direction or policy on what kinds of advanced
features will be allowed in? Is iD intended only as a beginners'
editor? Can advanced features be included?

Yes, there are some advanced features. We're okay with sophisticated
features as long as they do not interrupt the gradual learning curve. So,
basic UX ground rules like 'everything must be mouse-accessible', 'no
unnecessary complicated terms', and so on. Hard to say much more than that
that's a hard and fast rule - it really goes feature-by-feature as far as
what's possibly intimidating versus what's user-friendly.

- has there been any discussion about an openstreetmap.org version vs
a MapBox version? Perhaps the former would have a different policy on
the previous question...

There are no plans (internal or external) about a 'MapBox version'. It's an
open source project, and the #1 goal is to get it on osm.org as a default
editor, for OSM, and to have a large base of contributors and users.

Tom



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Re: [Potlatch-dev] Status of potlatch2 development?

2013-02-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
 So, the question is: what purpose does P2 serve when iD is live and the
 default?

 I think there's two principal niches. One is working with third-party data,
 as per Snapshot Server and vector background layers. P2 does this very well
 and there's no support for it in iD. P2 looks like it'll be the go-to
 solution for projects like the DfT cycling data for a while yet.

 Secondly, there's simply the comfort of editing. I find P2 to be a very
 efficient and enjoyable editor to work with, which is perhaps not too
 surprising, but there are plenty of others who think so too. A comparable
 spot in the editor market to Merkaartor, if you like. But we do need to be
 aware that Flash Player is no longer a given, and I suspect that in a year's
 time, market penetration even on the desktop will be lucky to hit 80%.

 That second reason means that, for me at least, the priority is to get a
 version of P2 up and running on Adobe AIR. We can, of course, still have an
 online build too (especially for the third-party data use) and I see no
 reason why P2 can't continue as a selectable option on the osm.org Edit
 drop-down. Exasperatingly, AIR on Linux is limited to version 2.6, which I
 think equates to Flash Player 10.3.

Thanks for the update on this interesting situation. I haven't played
with iD until just now. The GUI looks excellent, and I love the modal
editing (press 2 then click to create a POI - no fiddly double
clicking). Looks like no tag templates (features) yet, but
presumably underway. So, it looks like I'm not in either niche, and
will presumably switch to iD soon.

A few questions then about iD development:
- are the internals at all similar to Potlatch? Is it feasible to port
any features (ie, back-end node/way manipulations) over? I know
ActionScript isn't exactly JavaScript, but...
- is there a specified direction or policy on what kinds of advanced
features will be allowed in? Is iD intended only as a beginners'
editor? Can advanced features be included?
- has there been any discussion about an openstreetmap.org version vs
a MapBox version? Perhaps the former would have a different policy on
the previous question...


 For the small remaining time that P2 is the default editor on osm.org, I'm
 happy to - indeed, would seek to - remain the maintainer of that instance.
 Any pull requests that can be instantly and confidently merged, I will (and
 do) merge promptly. Anything that requires a day's work for me to understand
 isn't going to happen; I can't afford to give a day away like that.

Here's a couple I prepared earlier:

1)
https://github.com/systemed/potlatch2/pull/66

It fixes a centroid calculation bug. You can very quickly verify that
it works and doesn't catastrophically fail.

2)
https://github.com/systemed/potlatch2/pull/58/files

This will not unduly tax your cerebral resources.

3)
https://github.com/systemed/potlatch2/pull/49

Stylistic considerations aside, this is an easy one.

4)
https://github.com/systemed/potlatch2/pull/36

Aesthetic considerations aside, this is also easy.

I will grant you that the following pull requests are non-trivial to
understand, but are also pretty easy to verify. And considering that
the *current situation* is producing bad data, the risks are probably
justified.
https://github.com/systemed/potlatch2/pull/67
https://github.com/systemed/potlatch2/pull/33

It's still sad to see those poor pull requests sitting there - if you
had any idea how many hours those two bug fixes took. *sigh*

 That doesn't, however, stop anyone from running their own forked instances,
 and indeed that should be valuable in proving that a particular pull request
 will work or otherwise. So, Steve, I would encourage you to put your own
 build of P2 somewhere and people can then play with and test that as a
 prelude to getting them merged into the github.com/systemed repository
 later.

Yeah, it's a good idea. I'm not sure of the logistics, but I'll have a
go. If I provide a merged .swf, is there anywhere you or someone could
host it?

 Personally I think maintaining a standalone desktop editor will be a whole
 bunch more fun. It frees up P2 to be P2, rather than everyone's first
 experience of contributing to OSM; it's more realistically forkable (anyone
 can offer a build for download); the UI doesn't have to be constrained by
 the browser window; performance should be better; it's less likely to
 attract the BAN crowd; and we can dump trac and use something sane.

For my part, I'm 100% a web guy. I barely use any desktop apps at all
these days and would live in a browser if I could. And the motivation
of contribution to P2 has always been about working on the
OpenStreetMap editor. Not some advanced tool used by a few hardcore
types. But that's purely a personal, aesthetic view.

 [1] Apart from rendering all nodes, rather than just those in the currently
 selected way... that's a bit too GIS-like 

Re: [Potlatch-dev] Status of potlatch2 development?

2013-02-15 Thread Paul Norman
 From: Serge Wroclawski [mailto:emac...@gmail.com]
 Subject: Re: [Potlatch-dev] Status of potlatch2 development?
 
 On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  *crickets*
 
  No active devs left on this list? Did everyone move to iD?
 
 My impression (and I'm open to correction) is that Richard is focused on
 other projects, as well as iD, and that Andy has de-facto become the PL2
 maintainer right now, but has other higher priority.
 
 If that's the case (and it very well may not be) then it might make
 sense for you to ask to maintain PL2 for now, and see if that gets a
 different response.

I'd be willing to take on imagery.xml and vectors.xml. I don't know
ActionScript, but I do know imagery layers, vector layers, and XML.


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Re: [Potlatch-dev] Status of potlatch2 development?

2013-02-09 Thread Steve Bennett
*crickets*

No active devs left on this list? Did everyone move to iD?

Steve

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,
   Anyone know what the current status of development is? I have a
 number of pull requests on Github that have been sitting there for
 nearly a year. Richard Fairhurst hasn't responded to the last couple
 of emails I've sent him.

 I keep seeing bugs I'd like to fix, but if pull requests get ignored,
 there doesn't seem much point.

 Anyone know what's going on?

 Thanks,
 Steve

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] Status of potlatch2 development?

2013-02-09 Thread Serge Wroclawski
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
 *crickets*

 No active devs left on this list? Did everyone move to iD?

My impression (and I'm open to correction) is that Richard is focused
on other projects, as well as iD, and that Andy has de-facto become
the PL2 maintainer right now, but has other higher priority.

If that's the case (and it very well may not be) then it might make
sense for you to ask to maintain PL2 for now, and see if that gets a
different response.

- Serge

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[Potlatch-dev] Status of potlatch2 development?

2013-01-29 Thread Steve Bennett
Hi all,
  Anyone know what the current status of development is? I have a
number of pull requests on Github that have been sitting there for
nearly a year. Richard Fairhurst hasn't responded to the last couple
of emails I've sent him.

I keep seeing bugs I'd like to fix, but if pull requests get ignored,
there doesn't seem much point.

Anyone know what's going on?

Thanks,
Steve

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